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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Valve adjustment question
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 10:15 AM
Hey guys,
I was adjusting my valves and noticed one of them was way off (see pic). 
I screwed in the adjustment screw to take up the slack for this picture so you could see how much it took to tighten the valve. When i purchased this car it seemed to be running fine especially after a tune-up just a little noisy, this is the first time I've tried to adjust the valves and i figured this would be a good time as any sense I was already removing the tin to clean out the debris. Please break it to me gently 
do I have major problem?
See picture of the intake on No. 1 
Posted by: jaxdream May 23 2009, 10:24 AM
Looks ok to me , just got to ajust for the clearance what ever the spec is . One thing I see in the pic is the lack of lock nut on that screw adjuster , you do have that nut?? Adjust them in the order instructed , if you don't have a manual there is probably a tech article here for that if not pelican has some great tech articles especially on vavle adjustment procedures , use the search function - it's your friend !!! 
Jaxdream
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 10:38 AM
Looks ok to me , just got to ajust for the clearance what ever the spec is . One thing I see in the pic is the lack of lock nut on that screw adjuster , you do have that nut?? Adjust them in the order instructed , if you don't have a manual there is probably a tech article here for that if not pelican has some great tech articles especially on vavle adjustment procedures , use the search function - it's your friend !!!
Jaxdream
Compared to the other valves it is the only one I had to screw in that far, it's making me think there is a problem. I have the lock nut, i just screwed this in for the picture. Also in the valve adjustment articles I've been reading say to use a 13mm wrench, mine are 14mm and 15mm
. Would a bent push rod cause these symptoms?
Posted by: Dave_Darling May 23 2009, 10:46 AM
It looks to me as if the whole valve/spring/retainer is further in toward the head than its neighbor. To me, that says dropped seat...
Did it sound funny when you cranked the starter? Sort of a dead spot in the noise? "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-.." If so, that is a strong indicator of a cylinder without compression, which would also point toward a dropped seat in this case.
--DD
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 23 2009, 10:47 AM
The nuts after 1973 are often 14mm. Did you use The Cap'n's handy dandy foolproof method for adjusting the valves? See the writeup in the classic threads. Report back. The Cap'n
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 10:56 AM
It looks to me as if the whole valve/spring/retainer is further in toward the head than its neighbor. To me, that says dropped seat...
Did it sound funny when you cranked the starter? Sort of a dead spot in the noise? "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-.." If so, that is a strong indicator of a cylinder without compression, which would also point toward a dropped seat in this case.
--DD
They all look even to me see pic.
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 11:14 AM
The nuts after 1973 are often 14mm. Did you use The Cap'n's handy dandy foolproof method for adjusting the valves? See the writeup in the classic threads. Report back. The Cap'n
I'm using your instructions, it's just when I got to No. 1 intake it is 1/4" loose so I was worried I have a problem. I'm waiting to hear from someone saying it's normal or something else.
Posted by: underthetire May 23 2009, 11:58 AM
The nuts after 1973 are often 14mm. Did you use The Cap'n's handy dandy foolproof method for adjusting the valves? See the writeup in the classic threads. Report back. The Cap'n
I'm using your instructions, it's just when I got to No. 1 intake it is 1/4" loose so I was worried I have a problem. I'm waiting to hear from someone saying it's normal or something else.
Mine are like that as well. I have hydraulic lifters. Any chance they were changed out ?
Posted by: cwpeden May 23 2009, 12:05 PM
To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0)
Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit.
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 12:12 PM
To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0)
Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit.
Okay I'm checking now.
If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have?
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 23 2009, 12:39 PM
To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0)
Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit.
Okay I'm checking now.
If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have?
No. The adjusters would be preloaded. The adjustment you describe is NOT normal. However, how bad it is can vary. Might wanna remove the rocker stands and check the spring heights, but I don't think that's your problem. Generally, if the seat is moving around, it'll be pounded into the head, moving the valve outward. Not always, but it's a good clue. If it ran OK and didn't make a horrendous clacking sound, the seat has a good chance of being OK. You can tell if you have hydraulic lifters by getting a small and very bright flashlight and looking down the PR tube at the lifters. Hyd lifters have a squarish wire clip, visible on 3 sides of the inner tip of the pushrod. Report back.
The Cap'n
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 01:08 PM
To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0)
Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit.
Okay I'm checking now.
If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have?
No. The adjusters would be preloaded. The adjustment you describe is NOT normal. However, how bad it is can vary. Might wanna remove the rocker stands and check the spring heights, but I don't think that's your problem. Generally, if the seat is moving around, it'll be pounded into the head, moving the valve outward. Not always, but it's a good clue. If it ran OK and didn't make a horrendous clacking sound, the seat has a good chance of being OK. You can tell if you have hydraulic lifters by getting a small and very bright flashlight and looking down the PR tube at the lifters. Hyd lifters have a squarish wire clip, visible on 3 sides of the inner tip of the pushrod. Report back.
The Cap'n
Hey Cap'n,
Your saying the rocker is preloaded (spring), that is what I'm talking about, I pull back the rocker and screw in the adjuster nut to .008 and .006. I went through your "how to" three times and every time i had to adjust the adjusters in alittle more. See pics
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 01:09 PM
To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0)
Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit.
Okay I'm checking now.
If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have?
No. The adjusters would be preloaded. The adjustment you describe is NOT normal. However, how bad it is can vary. Might wanna remove the rocker stands and check the spring heights, but I don't think that's your problem. Generally, if the seat is moving around, it'll be pounded into the head, moving the valve outward. Not always, but it's a good clue. If it ran OK and didn't make a horrendous clacking sound, the seat has a good chance of being OK. You can tell if you have hydraulic lifters by getting a small and very bright flashlight and looking down the PR tube at the lifters. Hyd lifters have a squarish wire clip, visible on 3 sides of the inner tip of the pushrod. Report back.
The Cap'n
Hey Cap'n,
Your saying the rocker is preloaded (spring), that is what I'm talking about, I pull back the rocker and screw in the adjuster nut to .008 and .006. I went through your "how to" three times and every time i had to adjust the adjusters in alittle more. See pics
Other side
Posted by: cwpeden May 23 2009, 01:18 PM
Ok, optical illusion.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 23 2009, 01:37 PM
We have a problem here. You've jumped to a conclusion that isn't supported by investigation. LOOK AT THE LIFTERS. Report back. If the lifters are hydraulic, the method of adjustment is similar, but different in one very important way. As you go through turning the engine and adjusting the valves, you back off each adjuster screw until there's clearance, you then VERY carefully turn the screw inward with your finger tips until there is ZERO lash and NO preload on the pushrod or the valve. You then turn the adjuster in TWO full turns (this is for factory hydraulic adjusters and steel pushrods). You do each valve in turn. HOWEVER, from what I can see, you probably don't have hydraulic lifters, unless someone didn't do the complete conversion. The rocker shaft spacers are missing, and the coil springs used on solid lifter setups are present. I'm outtahere for a while, but I'll try to check in later on. The Cap'n
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 02:37 PM
We have a problem here. You've jumped to a conclusion that isn't supported by investigation. LOOK AT THE LIFTERS. Report back. If the lifters are hydraulic, the method of adjustment is similar, but different in one very important way. As you go through turning the engine and adjusting the valves, you back off each adjuster screw until there's clearance, you then VERY carefully turn the screw inward with your finger tips until there is ZERO lash and NO preload on the pushrod or the valve. You then turn the adjuster in TWO full turns (this is for factory hydraulic adjusters and steel pushrods). You do each valve in turn. HOWEVER, from what I can see, you probably don't have hydraulic lifters, unless someone didn't do the complete conversion. The rocker shaft spacers are missing, and the coil springs used on solid lifter setups are present. I'm outtahere for a while, but I'll try to check in later on. The Cap'n
See pics I think their hydraulic lifters. Kinda
look like GM lifters on end. Let me know Cap. These are pictures of No 2 Ext and In.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 23 2009, 06:01 PM
Hard for me to tell from your (pretty good!) pictures. Are there little clips in the lifters? They'll look like squares with one side cut off. The Cap'n
Posted by: roadster fan May 23 2009, 06:20 PM
Hard to tell in the top pic, but the bottom one looks like a hydraulic lifter to me, but then again I am no expert.........I just play one on TV 
Jim
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 06:40 PM
Hard for me to tell from your (pretty good!) pictures. Are there little clips in the lifters? They'll look like squares with one side cut off. The Cap'n
It looks like a clip of some kind. I think it looks like a GM lifter on end. Can these be adjusted while the engine is cold? Thank you for your help
Posted by: tag May 23 2009, 08:55 PM
Hard for me to tell from your (pretty good!) pictures. Are there little clips in the lifters? They'll look like squares with one side cut off. The Cap'n
It looks like a clip of some kind. I think it looks like a GM lifter on end. Can these be adjusted while the engine is cold? Thank you for your help
Looks like these http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html
Posted by: McMark May 23 2009, 09:05 PM
Yup. Hydraulics. The ratwell site has a good writeup on adjusting the lifters. The lifters need to 'pump up' before you can adjust them correctly. Sometimes you have to run the motor with 'loose' valves to allow the lifters to pump up, and then adjust the valves. Read the Ratwell page on adjustment. It's spot on.
Posted by: jcd914 May 23 2009, 09:49 PM
There is s trick to adjusting hydraulic lifters that have air in them (not pumped up).
They all have an internal spring that pushes the piston the push rod sits on out toward the rocker. This spring does not have much tension so the piston is easily pushed in as you try to adjust out the clearance. If you loosen the adjuster until you know you have a gap and then gently turn the adjuster while twisting the push rod with you finger tips, you can feel the push rod tighten up slightly as you take out all the clearance and start pushing against the spring. You probably need to tighten and loosen a couple times to get the feel for it. Once you can get zero clearance then you can turn in 2 turns to set them correctly. I learned this from a Chevy mechanic and it works quite well. Twisting the push rods on a 914 is a bit tough because of the space but what isn't.
Good Luck
Jim
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 24 2009, 12:29 AM
Isn't that what I said? The Cap'n
Posted by: tag May 24 2009, 06:57 AM
Thanks Cap'n, Jim and McMark, I'll re-adjust the lifters today or tomorrow and post back after I button her up and get her started. 
(just kidding) The engine oil runs hot at 230° so I removed the tin to see if there was alot of debris blocking the cooler but there wasn't, there was however leaves packed in No. 3 and No. 1 (i hope this helps a little)
Thanks again
Posted by: tag May 25 2009, 03:59 PM
Well I've got it all back together, now it runs really rough and wont stay running without a vacuum hose disconnected 
(after warmed up). So rich it hurts my eyes. Does this sound normal after a valve adjustment? Would doing another tune up fix this problem? Please help
Posted by: Cupomeat May 26 2009, 02:01 PM
This does not sound like a valve adjustment issue...
What is your induction? Is it carbs or D-Jet (I am assuming D-Jet as it is a 76 2.0L)
Posted by: tag May 26 2009, 06:35 PM
This does not sound like a valve adjustment issue...
What is your induction? Is it carbs or D-Jet (I am assuming D-Jet as it is a 76 2.0L)
Djet
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 26 2009, 06:50 PM
Is the MPS hose plugged into the intake manifold? The Cap'n
Posted by: tag May 26 2009, 07:13 PM
Is the MPS hose plugged into the intake manifold? The Cap'n
I'm pretty sure I put all the hoses in the same place i removed them, but i could be wrong.
Posted by: tag May 26 2009, 07:14 PM
Is the MPS hose plugged into the intake manifold? The Cap'n
And
Posted by: orange914 May 26 2009, 07:39 PM
Is the MPS hose plugged into the intake manifold? The Cap'n
does it hold vacuum??
p.s. red high temp. (or any other sily,cone), on intake gaskets has caused many a headache. beside oozing into carb or throttlebody passages and plugging them up, most silicone boogers up
and looses all sealing when fuel and oil mixes with it. copper seal spray (permatex) works greatmike
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