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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ needed more grippage
Posted by: mskala Mar 8 2004, 04:43 PM
Getting tired of only using 1 inch of rubber on the tires.
Thought this way would be better than doing low-rider
hops till the spindles bent 2 degrees 
Now I'm in modified for autocross, but at least my tub
is still virgin. Before it was about 3/4 degree, will find
out what I can get soon.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 8 2004, 06:14 PM
With the car set to 4.75 inches, ground to doughnuts, and them Tarett mounts pushed in like yours, I got -2.0 deg.
"cash hammer"....heh, heh, I like it 
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 8 2004, 06:20 PM
We need an emoticon with money flying out of its butt !!! 
Posted by: mskala Mar 8 2004, 06:31 PM
Is that with 205/50 or equivalent diameter? Will aim for that level if reasonable
for the street. I'm not sure what it is right now.
Posted by: mskala Mar 8 2004, 06:35 PM
Oh yeah, also the stock (boge?) shock threads are not long enough to use
the nylock nut that came with it. 
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 8 2004, 06:43 PM
Mark II, even for a wannabe racer like me, you get used to shoveling cash into a black hole.
This winters projects cost:
shocks revalved 280
springs & adjusters 180
Mueller brgs 400
wheels 335
Misc stuff 160
muffler 320
seat 100
tiars....900
I don't wanna add it up.
Mark I....it's your thread 
225X45X15s....dia bout 22.5-23.0.
BTW, I ground the big hole and mounting holes for the bolts to get all the caster I could. With the stock holes, I could get only a bit over 5 deg....I want 6 or better. Want a pic?
Posted by: seanery Mar 8 2004, 06:46 PM
LOL, first time I read this I thought it said Muffler brgs 400.
damn, it sucks to not be 25 still. Someone come up with a way to make me 10 years younger and I'll give you my white car!
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 8 2004, 06:48 PM
That's as low as I dare go.....2 inches of travel left in the shocks(21 mm T bars)....still a silght downward angle on the A arms ( ball joint is lower)....put the rack spacer kit in.....it's on, if not over, the edge.
Posted by: campbellcj Mar 9 2004, 12:02 AM
My car is way lower than that; 
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 9 2004, 01:58 AM
Come to our AXs and you'll rip the bottom out on a reef, Chris.
We actually have to build the courses around the worst spots.....and there are plenty of bad ones left.
That's the Pro Pits.....the South pits are worser. 
Posted by: dinomium Mar 9 2004, 11:56 AM
That's the Pro Pits.....the South pits are worser.
[QUOTE]The only thing worse than driving in those pits is laying in one of the rut-mud-puddles trying to straighen out a suspension link that just saw the lawn!!!!
Posted by: Howard R Mar 9 2004, 12:57 PM
JP,
Why 6 deg caster?
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 9 2004, 01:01 PM
I was first out in a rainy SCCA AX in the South pits.
There was virgin lake (the fish still tasted like chicken 
) just after the finish line. When I hit that thing walls of water bout 5 feet high went
at least 3 directions...I couldn't see beyond it....but the car stayed fairly dry.....wish I had a pic of that.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 9 2004, 01:08 PM
Why 6 JP ?? Like Howard asked ??
6 time PCA Parade autoX winner says no more than 5.5 is needed. Nothing gained past that with our struts/control arms.
B
Posted by: Howard R Mar 9 2004, 01:14 PM
I like to run mine down at 1.5 or 2. Little bit less directional stabiltity but vastly more feel.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 9 2004, 01:18 PM
I run the autoX cars at 5.0/5.5 but the track cars only get 2/3. Most people dont know the difference.
B
Posted by: Mueller Mar 9 2004, 01:23 PM
Hey B,
get the voice mail about the /6 paperwork? (ex-mueller's9146)
Back to the post.....
does anyone go thru the trouble of changing the settings back and forth between street, ax and track???
or is there a decent setting for all the above??
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 9 2004, 01:30 PM
The stock setting is 6 +/- 30 min.....the most I could get is 5.0.
With the wide front tiars I've gotten into a scrub radius problem. Ever drive a car with a locked rear end?....that's what it feels like...a walking speed push at a lot of steering lock.....it shows up in low speed corners. This may or not help.
I don't have a 6 time national champ looking over my shoulder.
Some 9eleben guys are running as much as 7 deg.
I want to try it.
Izat' gud?
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 9 2004, 01:34 PM
Hell yeah.. try it. It is the only way to learn. All of this is what you want YOUR car to feel like for YOU.
I'm concerned about your inability to get more than 5.0....HUM
911's have a huge f-ing weight hanging off their backs...LOL
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 9 2004, 01:35 PM
I havent turned my phone on today and probably wont (Mueller).. call the friggin shop (DUH)
B
Posted by: airsix Mar 9 2004, 01:36 PM
or is there a decent setting for all the above??
My best settings for auto-x scare the crap out of me at 80mph+ (at the slip-angle limit).
Rather than switch back and forth I just don't go 80mph+. (no track events in my area)
-Ben M.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 9 2004, 01:43 PM
I know several people who switch their cars back and forth from AutoX to street (Demick was one of them.)
Home alignments are not that difficult when you fully understand exactly what you are doing.
About the only real issue I can see with home alignments is the thrust angle. It could be very difficult to set correctly.
Twitchy cars at 80mph are VERY scary.
B
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 9 2004, 01:43 PM
When I pushed the Tarret mount inboard, the match-up with the orginal radius(big hole) wouldn't allow it to go back without pushing it outboard......fixed that with my die grinder....then the bolts hit going aft....more grinding. If I don't like it, it's easy enuff to move fwd.
Speaking of forward.
Howard, your running 1.5-2.0 deg castor????
Them's Mustang numbers.....which is one reason their handling sux.
Posted by: Howard R Mar 9 2004, 03:34 PM
JP,
Maybe its because of the type of event I compete in; Targa stuff, but I find that the ability to change direction quickly and have a lot of feel in the steering is more important than self centring effect. Flying over a blind crest and getting air at 160kph and into a hairpin 150m or so later requires a set up that just points well with really good turn in and overall stability. Kinda different from racing around a car park. Its all horses for courses I suppose. If it works for you then use it.
Posted by: airsix Mar 9 2004, 04:06 PM
Don't forget, more caster = more negative camber as the steering angle increases. (JP reminded me about that)
-Ben M.
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 9 2004, 04:09 PM
As you say, if it works for you.....
Caster does something other than provide self-centering, however. It adds negative camber to the outside wheel/tire as the steering lock increases.....hopefully negating the positive camber increased by body roll/A arm going over center.
Lack of caster will cause positive camber during these conditions.....thus the Mustang crack. Those guys go to offset (non concentric) bushings & all kinds of crap to get just 4 deg caster.
Those of in the car parks like to use tires that like around -2 negative camber and try to maintain that thru all our various manauvers...at the outside tire....the one doing the work.
Posted by: Howard R Mar 9 2004, 04:51 PM
JP
Negative camber is not a problem. I fixed it when I raised the spindles. I've got about 2.5 deg.
Posted by: mskala Mar 14 2004, 02:47 PM
Got to measure/align with the new plates. -2.1 or -2.2 now.
The right side was the limit, the left would be able to do -2.5.
Now have to set the toe and start working on the back.
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