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Posted by: jones Mar 13 2004, 05:22 PM

I am curious. Not that I need it yet but what is the ballpark cost for a 2.0 rebuild (done by a shop). I know there are many variables involved and options to consider but just a ballpark with a decent core to start with. I am thinking about 3k... What do you say? Thanks -

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 13 2004, 06:01 PM

/4 or /6 ?

i think you're about 50% low on a /4, you can easily double it (and then some) for a /6.

depends a bit on what it actually needs and if you mean a top-end or a full overhaul.
and to a certain extent, what part of the country you're in, how big a hurry you're in, and how much head repair you need (seems like most Porsche 2,0 914 heads need at least some).

Posted by: McMark Mar 13 2004, 06:13 PM

Full 2.0 four cylinder rebuild is at least 2.5 k for parts and machining, then add in assembly time/labor. For a little bit more you can get a 2270 kit from Jake and have it built or get a complete engine straight from him. It ain't cheap to do it right and make it last. But unless you're trying to build a $4000 gernade you have to do it right.

Posted by: jarbuthnot Mar 13 2004, 06:36 PM

I'm getting a 'new' 2L engine for my 4 (using my case), for under 3K, so you're probably in the ballpark. Jake is higher, but you get what you pay for. The only reason I didn't go with Jake was the time frame.

Posted by: 2-OH! Mar 13 2004, 11:23 PM

Call Jerry (the owner, 206-763-2487) at Northwest Connecting Rod over near Boeing Field...

If you tear it down, don't tear anything up, take him the pieces, nothing major is wrong and you go back stock...You will beat the 3K #, just barely...It all depends on what condition you find inside...

But a great cost savings is - you tear it down, cuts the labor almost in half...

2-OH!

Posted by: ChrisReale Mar 13 2004, 11:25 PM

Its closer to $6k to do it right

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 14 2004, 07:48 AM

check with your builder -before- trying this trick, tho, because some just will not touch a 'basket case' engine. for one thing, they like to be able to make notes on what parts are missing when the the engine is being disassembled, so they can locate (or order) them before it gets to be a critical-path surprise during reassembly.

if you are going to pre-dis-assemble, clean everything, and be organized. use baggies or something to keep all the parts and fasteners together - LABEL the baggies - i use some of my stash of old business cards and slip 'em in the baggie.

a pile of loose rods and bearings and things can make it difficult to diagnose problems; being able to match up individual rods, rod bearings, and mains (by number) gives you a really good idea of what's happening inside the engine, and what needs to be addressed.

Posted by: kdfoust Mar 14 2004, 11:26 AM

I just finished my DIY (no labor) estimate to do a 2.0 for my car. This is a mildly "breathed on" non-stock engine with djet. My core is pretty toasted (looks like it was ran hot) hence the high machining price.

System.......................... Cost
Machining .......................$1,385
(see below for machining breakdown)
CAM system.......................$458
(Webcam costs. I'll probably use Elgin)
Fuel Injection Repairs........$440
P&C, rod bolts....................$404
(94mm Mahle Flat tops)
Ignition system...................$360
(Pertronix, CDI, blah, blah)
Instrumentation..................$245
Tuning.................................$150
Miscellaneous Items ............$105
Bearings..............................$101
Gaskets, oil pump..................$86
Total..................................$3,735

Machining breakdown all RIMCO except as noted:
Port Heads......................................................$950
(Headflow masters)
Balance pistons, rods,
pressure plate, crank,flywheel,pistons,fan........$85
Line bore case...................................................$65
Recondition Rods includes wrist pin...................$60
Regrind crank....................................................$60
Weld messed up oil galley plugs........................$45
Deck case ...........................................................$75
Re-surface flywheel............................................$45

Any of the machining that's not needed is money in my pocket. But, I hate to underestimate a project by too much.


Good luck.
Kevin

Posted by: Lawrence Mar 14 2004, 11:36 AM

Please educate me. What instrumentation do you need? Are you sending the engine for a dyno/tuning session?

I understand miscellaneous. That's always a killer for me.

-Rusty

Posted by: anthony Mar 14 2004, 11:46 AM

I noticed on Rimco's page that they will regrind a stock cam and followers (lifters?). Is that ever advisable?

My other question is that is it ever advisable to reuse pistons? Do pistons wear out or can you get away with new cylinders and rings?

How does this work? Are they simply balancing every part? What about the dynamic balancing that Jake Raby always talks about? I assume with dynamic balancing that you have to have the engine partially assembled to do that right?

Posted by: kdfoust Mar 14 2004, 11:58 AM

Yeah, dyno session: in the car, me there doing the tweaking. I haven't decided on the parameters (MPS, whatever) yet. It'll be a couple of months before this all back in the car and driving again so I'll have time to sort it out.

Instruments: the engine is going in a '72 that has no gauges currently. I'm adding CHT, oil pressure, oil temp.

Balancing: I don't know for sure what the $85 includes. When I take the case to RIMCO next week I plan to talk to them. My intent is to have the engine dynamically balanced. $85 seems pretty cheap for that to me, but, that's the number I've got right now.

Later,
Kevin

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 14 2004, 12:02 PM

I'd be very leery about reusing the cam and lifters...

Reusing pistons is fine, as long as they check out.

--DD

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 14 2004, 12:16 PM

let me elaborate on Daves answer just a little...

pistons are aluminum, rings are steel. eventually the ring lands in the piston grow through wear and working. sometimes the skirts wear more than you'd like - but usually, unacceptable wear is in the ring lands.

if you have really, really rare pistons (2,8RS for instance) you can have the ring lands cleaned, trued, and opened up to a size for which slightly thicker rings are available. but there is a spec for maximum ring clearance. you install a ring and use a feeler gauge to see how much clearance there is between the edge of the ring and the top of the groove in the piston. if it's too big, the rings will flutter, bend, and break.

Posted by: jones Mar 14 2004, 01:49 PM

Thanks for all of the information thus far.

Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 14 2004, 06:12 PM

My stock rebuild is actually a 2056 and goes for about 4,500.00.....It includes everything right down to a new clutch and pressure plate, intermediate balancing and 6 hours of dyno time...

And it won't break.

2270 and no less than 145 BHP for around 7K complete, but it damn sure won't work with stock FI!

Posted by: ynotdd Mar 15 2004, 08:30 AM

Jake
What HP do you get out of your stock 2056 motor? is that with fatory FI?

Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 15 2004, 09:31 AM

110 with stock FI..

125+ with carbs

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 15 2004, 11:24 AM

I thought you didn't do stock FI?

--DD

Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 15 2004, 05:03 PM

I don't.......

I test the engine with carbs and the customer finishes the job.

Posted by: Brett W Mar 15 2004, 05:54 PM

Skip the aircooled motor and go WRX. For 4k you can do a full conversion. I know water, but Can't argue with 250+ reliably.

Posted by: ! Mar 15 2004, 06:22 PM

I just pulled a 2056 out of the Zeke race car....the tuna can was full of shaved piston.

Needless to say, it's at the machine shop for a total tear down and rebuild. If interested the whole long block including flywheel will eb available. No core needed. It will have the shop's warrenty. GA case and a nice cam, all new Keith Black pistons, new rings bearings and such.....

You could save a bunch of bucks this way.

Use YOUR FI or use carbs....I do have a set of 44s as well.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 15 2004, 07:07 PM

Sorry, what I meant to say was, "I thought you didn't build engines that would work with the stock FI?"

--DD