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Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Feb 10 2015, 08:16 PM

Hi all. I'm new to this forum and to 914s. I'm seriously interested in purchasing a 914 LE. I live in New Zealand and would like to get one shipped here. Due to costs and time involved in shipping to NZ the car I purchase will be a keeper for many years.
I don't have the time to recondition one so would like to purchase one that is in very good condition. Can any one please tell me how much I could expect to pay for a very good condition LE as I have no idea. I'm happy to wait for several months or more for a LE to come up for sale.
Thanks in advance.
Steve

Posted by: tumamilhem Mar 1 2015, 06:50 PM

I have an impeccable LE Creamsicle. One of the first made, made on Valentine's Day 1974. Fully restored and rebuilt, the previous owner and I have put loads of money into this car. The engine is rebuilt, the tranny is rebuilt, it maintains the original fuel injection and I've replaced all the essential fuel injection parts with new parts. There's not much else to do to this car it's all been done. Its so nice that it was accepted in the Amelia Island Concours d'Elegance Cars and Coffee in two weeks (Amelia is one of the two most prestigious classic car shows in the world). Creamsicles are twice as scarce as Bumblebees (there's twice as many Bumblebees remaining in existence than Creamsicles). so not only is this the rarest production car in existence, it's also been fully restored. So if I even consider letting mine go, I would have to consider its rarity and the amount of time and money that has been put into it to make it the magnificent example it is today. And I'd have to be able to get another car just as nice to replace it.

Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Mar 1 2015, 10:15 PM

Tumamilhem can you contact me on steve@chch.planet.org.nz please.

Posted by: somd914 Mar 2 2015, 05:45 AM

Not many LEs around for sale, you could be waiting a long time...

Question comes to mind, why an LE versus another 914? Are you looking for collectability or driving pleasure? Keep in mind an LE is the same as a '74 2.0 except for paint, air dam, and sway bars, beyond that no changes. From a driver's standpoint, many others 914s on the market offer better suspension and more power.

In the states a nice driver quality car can be had for the low teens (US dollars). I'd have to let the LE community chime as to what the premium would be on a comparable LE, but obviously it will be more.

Have you explored the cost of shipping from the States? Based on Jim Clark limited edition Lotus Elise that came up for sale in NZ recently (only 25 produced), the owner had a quote of $7,000 US to ship to our West Coast.

Should you wait and go the LE route, do not buy w/o a Porsche Certificate of Authenticity and a thorough inspection by someone who knows 914s.

Posted by: budk Mar 2 2015, 08:14 AM

I'm sure that your car is a wonderful example however let's not get too carried away.

According to Jeff Bowlsby's site, there are:

of the remaining Can Am cars, there are

142 bumblebees

95 creamsickles

237 Total LE's

So, to say that there are twice as many bumblebee's is a stretch, closer to 50% more which maybe is what you meant. Plus, Jeff's site is just informational and not "official" so there may be other LE's out there that are not on his site. When I found my LE in 2010 it was not listed in his database and every once in a while another one pops up.

Congrats on your Creamsickle and acceptance to Amelia Island Concours d'Elegance. It should be a great event. Can't wait to see the pics..

Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Mar 2 2015, 07:23 PM

Reason for an LE is I'm wanting to keep a 914 for a long time, I will only do this once hopefully so might as well make it a collectors edition. A 914/6 is out of my price range. I have a two year old son, it would be pretty cool to give this to him when he's old enough to appreciate it (I'm thinking 40 ish ). LE are rear over hear, I'm a member of Porsche Club Of New Zealand and I have yet to see an LE here.
The price to ship from USA to NZ is a lot cheaper than NZ to USA for some reason. I've been quoted US$3000 from USA to NZ.
I've got a 911 997 turbo which has been slightly modified so when I want performance etc. I will use this car. When I want style and cruising the LE would be perfect. I have my eye one an LE currently under resto which is looking very good, it should be finished April. All going well this could be the one.
I have looked on Jeff Bowlsby Can Am web site, Jeff certainly knows his stuff. I have used this web site as reference guide when looking at LE 914s.
I will keep you posted.

Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Mar 2 2015, 07:36 PM

WOW so what do you think it worth?

Posted by: HaraPuzo Mar 3 2015, 07:20 AM

I know you're searching for a creamsicle.
I found a bumblebee online. next best thing?
anyways, here's the link to check out.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/porsche/914/1721347.html

good luck in your search!

Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Mar 3 2015, 01:12 PM

Thanks HaraPuzo

Posted by: SteveLE Mar 3 2015, 07:14 PM

Hello, new to this site but not to LE's.

As cars-as-art; LE's are picturesque.
Rarity: 914-6's for $90k? Logicly LE's should not be far behind.
Reference; Car and Driver Magazine, go 2/3rds down the article.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/oil-stop-we-attend-the-porsche-parade-concours-in-monterey/

(You may have to paste)

Posted by: budk Mar 3 2015, 08:47 PM

I saw nothing in that article to justify your conclusion that an LE's value shouldn't be far behind a -6. As much as I like the LE's (including mine) I know it will always be worth a fraction of an original 6 in the same condition.

Posted by: somd914 Mar 4 2015, 07:29 AM

I realize collectors markets are frequently driven by emotion not reality, then again so is Wall Street.

However, I do not understand LEs? I'm trying to think what other limited edition Porsches were merely a cosmetic package that drive a high price. The 1980 911 Weissach Edition was similar, two color schemes, same basic car as any other 911 SC, approximately 400 were produced and sold quickly. From those that I've seen come to market in the last few years, their prices are commensurate with other SCs. Based on LE pricing of late, I'd say the Weissach 911s should command long nose 911 prices...

No matter, the market is what it is, and for LE owners, surfs up, ride the wave.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 4 2015, 08:20 AM

A 914-4 with an unique trim package isn't close behind a 914-6 that was fitted with a Porsche engine, suspension and brakes and finished in the Porsche factory. It's not just about the number of cars made.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 4 2015, 09:28 AM

Envy

Posted by: pete000 Mar 4 2015, 04:26 PM

What ever they are worth I love that picture !

Posted by: tumamilhem Mar 4 2015, 07:06 PM

Those numbers you quote are correct. But notice I said drivers. Half of the cars in those numbers are shells of cars, deteriorated, etc. The VINs exist, but not all of them are complete cars.

Also LEs were better drivers because of their suspension. They came with frint and rear sway bars and upgraded shocks.

Posted by: tumamilhem Mar 4 2015, 07:09 PM

Actually, the 2.0/4 was modified by Porsche. They had their hands in it last, increasing the bore and other areas of performance.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 4 2015, 07:27 PM

I can appreciate that. The whole car was designed by porsche. But there is a huge difference between a 4 (modified by Porsche) and the 6 cylinder Porsche engines. It's not just a numbers thing with hp and torque. It's a completely different engine and driving experience.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Mar 4 2015, 07:57 PM

I could never part with my Creamsicle, so to me it's priceless. It was my Fathers car, only has 48k original miles on it & is the definition of a "garage queen". Been in my family since I was 11 & I'm now 52. However, if you found one in the condition mine is in & got it for less than $40k USD I'd say you got a bargain. It all depends on what you want the car for- collectability or driveability. I own 2 914s because I enjoy the car, but my LE is so pristine I barely drive it for fear of something happening to it. My other 914 is a genuine six that has had more owners than I know of, does not have it's original engine & has been highly modified. I enjoy the hell out of that car as much as I can


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Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Mar 4 2015, 10:03 PM

Two beautiful cars. Thanks for sharing.

Posted by: somd914 Mar 4 2015, 11:59 PM

[/quote]

Also LEs were better drivers because of their suspension. They came with frint and rear sway bars and upgraded shocks.
[/quote]

Marginal difference, but I'll take my 911 front-end, 5 bolt fuchs with wider tires, and sway bars front and rear. Sure, not original, but handles and stops better than 914-4 suspension/brakes.

As for the engine, I agree Porsche made a some mods, but HP/torque gains were minimal and not unique to an LE.

As I mentioned, I realize the prices are pushing into the 911 SC/Carrera range, and I also understand collector versus driver cars, but I can't figure out why a paint scheme (and sway bars that any owner can easily and inexpensively add) brings the value up so much. Am I overlooking something?

Posted by: Creamsicle New Zealand Mar 5 2015, 03:33 AM

[quote name='somd914' date='Mar 4 2015, 09:59 PM' post='2155005']
[/quote]

Also LEs were better drivers because of their suspension. They came with frint and rear sway bars and upgraded shocks.
[/quote]

Marginal difference, but I'll take my 911 front-end, 5 bolt fuchs with wider tires, and sway bars front and rear. Sure, not original, but handles and stops better than 914-4 suspension/brakes.

As for the engine, I agree Porsche made a some mods, but HP/torque gains were minimal and not unique to an LE.

As I mentioned, I realize the prices are pushing into the 911 SC/Carrera range, and I also understand collector versus driver cars, but I can't figure out why a paint scheme (and sway bars that any owner can easily and inexpensively add) brings the value up so much. Am I overlooking something?
[/quote]
Rarity is probably the single biggest factor (in my humble option), as time goes by the rarer cars become, this is the driving factor of car valuations.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 5 2015, 06:25 AM

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Posted by: somd914 Mar 5 2015, 08:29 AM

"Rarity is probably the single biggest factor (in my humble option), as time goes by the rarer cars become, this is the driving factor of car valuations."

I'd contend is more emotional than rarity.

I mentioned the 911 Wessiech limited edition, how about the Martini or Sebring 924s, or the 944 Celebration Edition? Porsche's history is rich in limited edition trim models like these, yet their pricing is commensurate with the non limited edition cars. Why is the 914 LE so different? Guess I haven't drunk the coolaid yet.

I would put value on a limited edition that brought unique performance enhancements that can't easily or inexpensively be cloned, but anyone can easily clone a 914 LE, and w/o knowledge of the VIN range and COA, nobody would be able to tell.

There's an old saying, don't buy a car as an investment...

Posted by: SteveLE Mar 5 2015, 12:05 PM

Forget about our pricing thread, I'm still back on the picture of Mr. Blacksteins, AWSOME set of cars dude!

Posted by: somd914 Mar 5 2015, 12:48 PM

Sorry, should have commented also - awesome cars, incredible ownership story that makes his creamsickle priceless!

Posted by: 87m491 Mar 5 2015, 04:59 PM

[/quote]

I can't figure out why a paint scheme (and sway bars that any owner can easily and inexpensively add) brings the value up so much. Am I overlooking something?
[/quote]

Not overlooking anything as far as I can tell, but for some folks seems to be worth paying a pretty good premium for.

Posted by: poorsche914 Mar 6 2015, 09:15 PM

Thanks for driving her to Okteenerfest last year
An awesome LE with an equally awesome history.

My LE (with a VIN only 15 away from Al's and a near twin with Cinnamon interior) is on the other end of the spectrum... neglected for 20 years by the previous owner. During my five years of ownership, I have restored/replaced/upgraded things as my budget can afford. Still needs a lot of rustoration and bodywork.
What's it worth? No idea Any other '74 in similar condition might bring $5-6k
As an LE... I suppose it depends how badly someone wanted it. I've seen similar go for $10k+

An LE that had been repainted silver just sold in Texas for $4k... that was a steal!

At some point, I will have a full restoration done on my Creamsicle. Of course, I will then have to do like Al and get a second 914 to drive

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Mar 6 2015, 09:32 PM

No problem Steve, I enjoyed Okteenerfest very much, however I think you might have a problem w/ your granddaughter if you get another teener- she appears to love your creamsicle very much

Posted by: sda4property@gmail.com Mar 20 2015, 01:51 PM

Steve,

20 Emails back & forth.
Contact me over the phone to discuss.


Scott D Anderson
562-987-1850

Posted by: tumamilhem Mar 30 2015, 10:50 PM

Posting error

Posted by: tumamilhem Mar 30 2015, 10:52 PM

Posting error

Posted by: tumamilhem Mar 30 2015, 11:00 PM

True, there are more vins recorded. But those numbers are just recorded vin numbers of known cars - regardless of condition or survival. Many of those cars are destroyed, abandoned, shells, etc. (See some of the pics of the registered vins). I'm referring to remaining actual complete and driveable surviving/restored cars.

Posted by: TJB/914 Mar 31 2015, 05:59 AM

[quote name='87m491' date='Mar 5 2015, 06:59 PM' post='2155231']
[/quote]

I can't figure out why a paint scheme (and sway bars that any owner can easily and inexpensively add) brings the value up so much. Am I overlooking something?
[/quote]

Not overlooking anything as far as I can tell, but for some folks seems to be worth paying a pretty good premium for.
[/quote]



I don't get it too Nice to look at, but it's just a paint job with a little add on's.
Yes, it's worth a little more $$. It gets down to, no rust, matching engine #, paint condition, mileage, low production #'s, history, factory options, etc. etc. the price should always be based on all these things & a few more I didn't list.
My humble opinion.
Tom

Posted by: mepstein Mar 31 2015, 06:04 AM

[quote name='TJB/914' date='Mar 31 2015, 07:59 AM' post='2167744']
[quote name='87m491' date='Mar 5 2015, 06:59 PM' post='2155231']
[/quote]

I can't figure out why a paint scheme (and sway bars that any owner can easily and inexpensively add) brings the value up so much. Am I overlooking something?
[/quote]

Not overlooking anything as far as I can tell, but for some folks seems to be worth paying a pretty good premium for.
[/quote]



I don't get it too Nice to look at, but it's just a paint job with a little add on's.
Yes, it's worth a little more $$. It gets down to, no rust, matching engine #, paint condition, mileage, low production #'s, history, factory options, etc. etc. the price should always be based on all these things & a few more I didn't list.
My humble opinion.
Tom
[/quote]




The more it gets talked about the more it becomes a "thing".
When Jeff made the registry, It helped it become more of a defined "thing"

Nothing wrong with liking the "thing", everyone has to decide whats important and valuable to them. It gets silly if you let others decide that for you.

Posted by: billh1963 Mar 31 2015, 06:21 AM

I agree. I like the creamsicle cars; however, I wouldn't pay a significant premium for one. That's just me.

The '70's had lots of "paint and stickers" packages on cars to try to sell slow moving inventory.

Posted by: bulitt Apr 2 2015, 12:25 PM

That is so true Bill. Recall many.

X version-



in case you were color blind-



screamin chicken (I owned one)



ugh



Didn't make this any faster



What is a Honcho? but you could order it with the Levi Denim package!



Gold leaf package-



This was real wood ! Really! Wood!

Posted by: 914werke Apr 2 2015, 01:11 PM

So exactly then why are all you self professed skeptics bothering to clutter the OP's ad with your derogatory comments?
He clearly DOES see the"thing" about these "paint and stickers" packaged cars or he wouldn't have bothered to specify it.

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 2 2015, 01:41 PM

For a couple of reasons...

1. There has been a lot of excess hype lately about LE's....some of it over the top. Perhaps part of a "pump and dump" campaign

2. The OP posted "Can any one please tell me how much I could expect to pay for a very good condition LE as I have no idea." Based on that sentence, he is looking for input on the price. Some are merely explaining why (in their opinion) they wouldn't pay a huge premium.

Would you like for me to explain further? I'm bored right now and am happy to oblige...

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 2 2015, 01:43 PM

Furthermore, it wasn't a "paint and stickers" package. There was more to it than that (physically). But what was significant is that it commemorated something. It was made purposely to be a limited edition car, a special run and to commemorate Porsche's greatness and domination on the race track. That's like saying the 1973 911 2.7 and 3.0 911 RS - the car the 914 commemorated, was a "paint and stickers" to "sell slow moving inventory". Which by the way, the 914 WAS moving as Porsche's best selling model ever by far. Only a few of those RS "paint and stickers" cars were made too. Those "paint and stickers" RS cars are not probably the most valuable vintage Porsche cars you can buy.

LEs are special and rare. The rarest of the production breed, in fact. See it/like it or not.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 2 2015, 01:59 PM

Your right. There was a fiberglass front spoiler that ads at least $10k to the value and enough downforce to drive upside down in a tunnel.

Similar to 911RS ?

Posted by: bulitt Apr 2 2015, 03:20 PM

Why commenting on the OP's ad?
Because, it's not an ad? Is it? If it was a WTB, or FS I understand the rules and would not comment.
Plus Bill made a statement which jogged my memory of the 70's, and it was easy to substantiate the fact with photos that lots of cars during that era had decals. Marketing device to sell a product to a defined group of buyers. Don't know if the OP lived during those times?
Not trying to offend anyone or crap on anyone's parade. It was what is was.

Posted by: rnellums Apr 2 2015, 09:27 PM

Should 98 paint code (special order paint to Porsche color) cars command a similar premium to the LE's? I would imagine that they are an order of magnitude rarer than the LE's (less than tens of identical models built vs. hundreds). Personally I think the Bumblebee is my favorite LE, although I have never seen a bumblebee in person. I am partial to black cars though !

Posted by: mepstein Apr 2 2015, 09:59 PM

Ross - The value of your car is what ever you want it to be. The trick is to get one buyer to feel the same as you.

Create a 98 paint code registry and your golden. Add letters after the model number - S, LE, RS work but you can use most any letter in the alphabet to denote special significance. Repeat the phrase - numbers matching. Oh, and add some stickers, everyone likes stickers.

Posted by: banananose914 Apr 2 2015, 10:02 PM

Let us not forget the Popsicle, and the always troublesome menstrualcicle.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 3 2015, 09:01 AM

I originally did like the Bumblebee. But my Creamer has grown on me for sure and I much prefer it, even though I wasn't nuts about Light Ivory (I prefer a bold color on the 914). Black has actually become the only color I'm not a fan of for the 914. I think it hides all the angles of the car. Besides, it was the 70's and a funky looking car so it needs a funky looking color.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 3 2015, 09:04 AM

Or convincing an LE owner to part with it.

Posted by: 87m491 Apr 4 2015, 10:38 AM

This argument is a bit convoluted and hard to follow. Mentioning an original Carrera RS and LE together tries to bridge a huge chasm. Nothing that made the RS special was available off the shelf unlike everything on the LE, save maybe the stickers. While I appreciate the enthusiasm around LE's they were not the 1:1 V8 that was made for Piech. They are not one of the many handfuls? Of GT's made nor are they one of a few 916 variants so clearly, neither are they, nor will they ever be, "the rarest of the production breed". Whether or not folks choose to value them like they are is up to them!

Posted by: mepstein Apr 4 2015, 12:42 PM

Porsche produced 106 904s at four or five a day with a list price of US$7245 (FOB Stuttgart).

Posted by: scotty b Apr 4 2015, 07:14 PM

911 RS = 914-6 GT M471

914 LE = 911 Weissach....without the good engine

Nice Weissachs get a 10% -15% premium to very small crowd that see paint, pinstriped seats, and colored wheels as an exclusivity

Posted by: somd914 Apr 4 2015, 09:11 PM

And a few more limited edition Porsches from their long history of limited editions:

1973 911 RS - approx 1,600 produced, unclear on the number of US versions, performance package, race homologation

1974 911 RS - haven't found production numbers, performance package, race homologation

1980 911 Weisach Edition to recognize Porsche Motorsport Team in Weisach- 400 US cars, trim package

1982 928 Weisiach - 204 US cars, trim package

1982 924 Weisach - haven't found production numbers, trim package

1988 944 Celebration Edition - 500 US models, trim package, in recognition of 100,00 cars off of the Neckarsulm line.

1992 911 RS - 45 US models, performance package

2008 Boxster LE - trim, aero mods, minor engine mods, 250 S models, 250 base models

2014 911 50th Anniversary - trim and performance, 1,963 produced, unclear on US versions

2015 911 PCA Edition - 60 models, trim package

As for value, in the above examples from the '92 RS and earlier, none of the trim editions appear to add much or any value, the RSs bring premiums even the '92. Keep digging though, there are more limited edition Porsches out there.

As for 914 LE, the market is what it is, logic doesn't always prevail, but it doesn't on Wall Street either. If the surf is up, ride it... The question is, is the surf really up? Time will tell.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 4 2015, 09:29 PM

The Porsche 911 GT1 is a car that was developed in 1996 for the GT1 class in the 24 Hours of Le Mans. In order to qualify for GT racing, 25 road-going models were built to achieve type homologation. These models developed around 700 hp (522 kW; 710 PS) and did 0–60 mph in 3.3 seconds. The top speed was 235 mph (378 km/h). Both the road and race cars carried the same twin turbocharged engine as used in the 962, and the race car was a match for the McLaren F1 GTRs that were racing at the time. A re-developed version of the 911 GT1 race car was later built, winning outright at the 1998 24 Hours of Le Mans. The car is not really considered to be a real 911[citation needed], as it is derived from the 962 with the 996 911's front section. It was the most powerful and fastest road-going Porsche until the introduction of the 918 Spyder in 2013.

The 911 Carrera Club Sport (CS) (option M637), 340 of which were produced worldwide from August 1987 to September 1989, is a reduced weight version of the standard Carrera that, with engine and suspension modifications, was purpose built for club racing

The 911 Speedster (option M503), a low-roof version of the Cabriolet which was evocative of the Porsche 356 Speedster of the 1950s, was produced in limited numbers (2,104) starting in January 1989 until July 1989 as both a narrow body car and a Turbo-look. The narrow version was produced only 171 times.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Apr 5 2015, 03:43 AM

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 5 2015, 04:54 AM

Methinks you are missing the point....

Posted by: scotty b Apr 5 2015, 05:49 AM

no stickers or fancy paint needed to make that sale


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Posted by: MDG Apr 5 2015, 07:36 AM

To the OP's question, the price is whatever you feel comfortable paying. As with any vintage car, there will always be the cost average that 'the market dictates'... as well as the hyperbole driven prices of people trying to sell 'a super rare model'. If the LE is what you like, go for it... and shop wisely. My opinion is an LE may be slightly higher than an equally equipped 2.0 '74. But, as always, condition and originality will be the most important pricing factor whether it is an LE or not.

The issue people have always had with the '74 LE is there was nothing that really set it apart. The same options were available on any other 2.0 914 of that year (or '73 for that matter). You could choose Mahle's over Fuch's, you could order the appearance group package. You could order one in black or light ivory. Same 2.0 engine, same exhaust, same transmission. Same brakes, same suspension.... and so on. Same interior choices. They did get the initial appearance of the 'LE' front spoiler .... which wasn't actually 'limited' as you could subsequently order the same spoiler from the dealership parts counter if you wanted one AND they continued to use the same spoiler on the new '75 big bumper cars as well ...

What you couldn't get on the others were the special colour combos and decals (although, again, you could order the decals from your dealership's parts counter if you wanted them on your car. Hell, they'd even install them for you.... ). The factory saved some money by not installing the roll bar vinyl; they spent some extra in painting the wheels, bumpers, rockers & spoilers. The overall paint schemes were lifted directly from the much lauded 911 RS from the previous year. Of course, that 911 was basically a detuned race car for the street with lots of go fast goodies including a brand spankin' new 2.7 engine. Unlike the 914 LE, the RS truly were unique from the production 911's. As noted earlier, the current prices of those 911's are reflective of their rarity and overall wow factor.

Back then many people saw the 914 LE, for whatever reasons, as nothing more than a marketing gimmick by VW/Porsche. Many people see it now in much the way when some owners fervently try to convince prospective buyers of all this 'rarest of the rare' nonsense. Regardless, they are still well optioned, 2.0 914's which make them excellent cars to own and drive.

Buy what you like. Pay what you're comfortable with. Drive the shit out of it.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 7 2015, 06:03 PM

Without rumors or second hand stories, what is the highest actual sales price that anyone knows for an LE? Assuming it was a clean title, numbers matching car? I would think if it wasn't numbers matching, an LE isn't much more valuable than any other 914.

And...did it fetch that price because it was an LE or because it was a super clean car. Personally, I have not heard of an LE fetching any huge numbers because it was an LE. A small premium perhaps but nothing that you couldn't get with any other low mileage, numbers matching, restored/preserved 914. Just my .02.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 7 2015, 08:34 PM

I've had multiple parties approach me offering me a lot of money for my LE.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 7 2015, 09:18 PM

That is my point. People always talk about big numbers on the LE but they never seem to sell for that. I can think of three factory 6's that have sold in the last six months for well over $70k. Surely one LE has sold in the last year and according to earlier statements I read here, the price tag on the LE sale shouldn't be far behind the six.

What was the last big price tag on an LE that was actually sold? If they are so collectible and sought after, it seems like that should be an easy number to find.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 8 2015, 05:32 AM

Don't confuse the issue with facts.

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 06:06 AM

Tommy says he has had some offers. Perhaps he should post them to establish a baseline?

That could be the starting point for a car with known issues and then the prices can go up from there?

Posted by: 87m491 Apr 8 2015, 07:16 AM

Might be good to know anecdotally, but only an actual transaction would establish a baseline. Over the years I've been lucky enough to own a car or two that would garner unsolicited offers. The two times I followed up, the offers tended to evaporate or be pretty unrealistic compared to other recent sales.

Posted by: MDG Apr 8 2015, 07:53 AM

Good points. And the OP's initial query was this very thing. I think he would like to know what average/good/excellent examples have sold for and what if any 'premium' is tacked on over a non LE of the same condition.

So? Any LE owners/aficionados have anything to add other than frustration that we don't all share your passion?

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 8 2015, 08:25 AM

With all due respect, I don't think you can start there. I have had offers on lots of things I have owned over the years. Most of the time those offers dry up or come down significantly once I say, "let's go to the bank so you can get the money". It's easy to look at something that looks cool and throw out an offer for fun. It's different once you do the research, find out the history, true condition and market of whatever you are looking at.

With my car sitting at a show looking shiny, I have had people ask me what I would sell it for. I tell them $60k just because I am bored and I am looking for some entertainment. 9 times out of 10 they say they would buy it for that. I am sure once they did their homework they would quickly see that I was out of my mind. BUT...now I can say I have had offers for $60k??

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 10:08 AM

Well mine would have sold for a high number if I had sold it. I didn't quote a price because I didn't have it up for sale. They were all offers and I don't think they would have evaporated as three of them were pretty persistent over a few weeks.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 8 2015, 10:18 AM

Same with mine. They were very high numbers that I can't quote here but I assure you they were serious. I think it is because I have the LE spoiler on the front.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 10:22 AM

Sorry Tommy, that's not quite right. LE's were made to commemorate the 917-30/K dominating the 1973 Can Am series. However, the 917-30/K, a mid engine giant, was a paint & stickers car

Aside form the paint, stickers & front spoiler, there really was no difference between a fully loaded 74 2.0 & an LE. However, they came that way from the factory & by definition in a very limited run.


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Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 11:00 AM

I say put up or shut up (in other words quit the hype).

You aren't dealing with million dollar Ferrari's here. If someone has actually offered you money then post what they offered. No one is asking what you paid.

Posted by: MDG Apr 8 2015, 11:18 AM

Simple answer from a man who knows.

Johnny, I know there aren't many original ones left so not a lot of sales data but have you heard of any recent LE sales? As an owner of a fully optioned '73 2.0 (my personal choice for THE 4 cylinder stock 914), I'd be interested to know the kind of price range.

I saw a cross post on Eric's FB page of a post Tommy made where he said the offer on his LE was high enough that he could have purchased THREE very nice '73-'74 2.0 914's... or one of those 914's AND a late 80's Carrera.

Seems like a big number to me but I don't know......

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 11:31 AM

Are you serious?. I call total bullsh!t on that one.

You're talking $50k-$60k++ for a salvage title LE. "Pump and Dump" is one thing but this is too much.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 11:43 AM

Mike- I honestly don't know. You have to consider the current market, demand & condition of the vehicle. My LE is a one owner car that has spent 95% of her life in the garage & only has 48k original miles on her so I would estimate it's rather expensive, regardless of demand or the current market. However it's not for sale & I doubt it ever will be. I have to find a relative to will the car to in order to keep it in the family. As time has passed, the value of these little cars has gone up, as it should. Production wise the LE is the most rare of the mass produced 914s- even more so than the 914-6. The 914-6 GT is much more rare than the LE, but it was not mass produced. Production numbers have a direct affect on the values of cars world wide & have a lot to do with determining current prices. From what I've seen, the argument over the value of an LE vs. an ordinary 914 seems to be internal; amongst us owners & nowhere else.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 8 2015, 11:50 AM

There is a HUGE difference between your car and a salvage title, non matching car. They can't even be compared IMHO. Your car is top dollar to begin with, the LE can only help. Hope to see it someday!

Posted by: MDG Apr 8 2015, 12:08 PM

I agree. And the cool thing with some of the cars on here (LE's or otherwise) is this very site provides incredible documentation. In the case of someone like Al's car, there's a decade worth of info here on 914World on an original owner car which can only further the value.

edit: I don't know why I always call Al ...Johny. I'm simple that way. I think I'll start calling Zach.. Vacca.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 12:19 PM

Lol- it's a long story, but I'll shorten it. I'm an A/V tech, we wear "show blacks", goes back to Shakespeare. Once I had a friend come over & he saw me wearing my show blacks & called me Johny Blackstain, because of my attire. The name stuck


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Posted by: poorsche914 Apr 8 2015, 12:19 PM

You can adopt me Pretty sure she would remain in the family as both my daughter and granddaughter are 914 fans

Posted by: MDG Apr 8 2015, 12:27 PM

Nice. I'm digging the colour scheme on the black car!

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 12:37 PM

Thanks. We have Bumblebees, Creamsicles, the mythical Grasshopper so I went with "Oriole" look on my six. Funny thing is my six is a real six but it's not numbers matching, it's not Irish green, didn't come with flares or a tan interior so as to it's value again, I have no idea. It's not salvage, but it's very far from original.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 12:49 PM

That's right. My bad.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 12:50 PM

That's an extreme. Of course not a million dollars. Even a new 918 isn't that much. We're not insinuating that.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 12:54 PM

Exactly. And because there is relatively no market for them to compare to because factory (not fake knock-offs) are rare and even more rarely sold.

Posted by: Socalandy Apr 8 2015, 01:14 PM

This is like a fishing trip, gill nets were outlawed to save the unsuspecting but as you can see catching tuna on a line can still be done but at what cost.

I know of two LE's that have sold recently in the 15-20k range. One was a driver/repaint and the other was a full resto to the nines. numbers matching/ COA cars with clean non salvage titles. If your going for original then those items are key in getting top dollar!!!

Anything less will require a few current sales and knowing how correct the cars were.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 01:17 PM

That's a hell of a deal.

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 01:20 PM

Then, what are your numbers? Let's hear what offers are being made.



They are being sold...

You bought yours from JRust on this forum. Others have been sold on here as well.

I posted a Bumblebee I passed on a year or so ago

One sold on ebay the other day (under $10K IIRC).

Donald rescued one from a pick and pull around a year ago.

These things aren't like Ferrari 250 GTO's or other ultra rare exotica that change hands privately.

So....what have you been offered? Inquiring minds want to know

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 01:33 PM

With respect, I'm not comfortable posting the offers because I do not think those who made the offers would appreciate making their offers public. If I am not (or on the fence) of selling my car, it would not be fair to them. I would respect their privacy. But I did indicate already what I could purchase with the offer made. That should give a ballpark.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 8 2015, 01:34 PM

Rare, rare rare....if rarity is the only factor in determining value, then my '75 1.8 should be WAY up there on the value scale. Smaller production numbers than any other 4cyl(except that damned LE). Less than 2500 ever made. Crap....why the hell did I butcher my classic and make it a six???? The 73 2 liter is the 2nd highest production 914 ever made and it is considered the one to buy(sans the six). So there is more to it than rarity.

Even if Johnny's car wasn't an LE, it is a top tier car that should(and would) command big $$. Not because of the rarity of the LE but because of the condition, documentation, numbers matching, clean title and so on, IMHO.

While I would certainly never suggest that being an LE does not add value, I think that value can(and has been) be easily exaggerated. Saying it is worth three 73 2.0's?? C'mon....

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 01:36 PM

Bullsh!t I'm not asking you to name names

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 01:36 PM

A few years back, 5 or 6 I think, King George sold one of his restored Creamsicles; I think it was even listed on evilbay. I'm pretty sure he was asking over $20k for it, maybe close to $30k. Made sense because of the amount of coin put into the restoration & it was numbers matching. Does anyone remember this & what it sold for?

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 01:38 PM

I agree. I have two Ferrari Mondial coupes...an '86 3.2 and an '88 3.2

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me right now; however, there were less than 30 coupes imported to the US in 1986 and maybe a few more in 1988. They are very rare. Rarity does not, unfortunately, equate to value.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 8 2015, 01:47 PM

It's still about condition and originality. That's why RFoulds got $40k for an unrestored 914 in perfect condition and an amateur restore LE with damage title and non matching engine and trans went for mid teens. Those are sold prices so that's their price until they or something just like them are sold again.


I'd offer moveqik $80 for his car but collecting on it might be a challenge.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 8 2015, 01:50 PM

Awesome! I'm adding "I HAVE OFFERS OF $80K FOR MY CAR!!!" to my signature.

I take checks. Wait.....never mind.

Posted by: Socalandy Apr 8 2015, 01:57 PM

No names mentioned if you posted it so your dodging for one reason or another and not helping the original poster one bit.

Posted by: MDG Apr 8 2015, 02:12 PM

Really good mid year 2.0 are selling $20k-ish (close to double that if you sell to Europe). The 86-88 Carreras are starting to climb but up here at least you can still find pretty decent ones for under $30k.

Are you saying you were offered $60k - $90k for your car? Really?

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 02:23 PM

Not affiliated, for sale right now on the evilbay. Current bid is $4349.00 & reserve has not been met:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-LE-/201322070757

A bit rough & not numbers matching. Sale ends today.

Another one for sale on evilbay right now, again not affiliated. This one has been for sale for a while, is also listed on Hemmings & is in pretty good condition but is not numbers matching.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-Limited-Edition-Bumblee-/221733011392?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33a0513fc0&item=221733011392

Posted by: Cfletch Apr 8 2015, 02:52 PM

lol just post the offers without names. It's not harming anyone and you'll answer the guys post which should have happened 5 pages ago.

Posted by: G e o r g e Apr 8 2015, 03:02 PM

Well this is true of most cars on here, but I know of at least 2 threads that are no longer with us that future buyers won't have the luxury of reading, both had LE cars in them.

This http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=247073&hl= if numbers matching must be worth a lot even in its current condition?

Posted by: dlkawashima Apr 8 2015, 03:27 PM

Of course it's BS. Tommy is having a good laugh over this, I'm sure. But you guys keep playing along ...

The highest priced 4-cylinder 914s that I've seen sold have been in the $30,000 to $35,000 range. Most were 2-liters, nearly 100% original (including paint), mint condition and very low mileage. One was a '75 1.8, supposedly with under 5,000 original miles.
I don't know if an LE has *sold* for over $35,000 but I seem to recall one guy had two or three Bumblebees that were consecutive in sequence or very nearly so, and he wanted big money for them.

From what I've seen, the Can-Am cars DO sell for a premium over the more pedestrian 2-liters, but the difference is small ... perhaps $3,000 to $5,000 at best. Condition trumps all.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 03:30 PM

This just made my stomach very upset.


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Posted by: PANTLODE Apr 8 2015, 03:37 PM

I saw that too. And as someone looking for an LE I nearly passed out!! Say it ain't so!

from Eric Sheeah's FB page:

Posted by: poorsche914 Apr 8 2015, 04:28 PM

That guy is here in Knoxville. He had (2) consecutive numbered Bumble Bees in very nice condition that reportedly sold for $60k (the pair) to someone out in California. This was 5+ years ago IIRC.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 8 2015, 04:45 PM

I'm not dodging. The original poster privately messaged me after posting this thread and we discussed it.

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 8 2015, 05:48 PM

Maybe you can post the prices and then the thread will be mysteriously deleted like the other two......

Posted by: scotty b Apr 8 2015, 07:05 PM

" It's amazing what your own patch of grass at The Amelia Island Concourse d 'Elegance can do... "


SERIOUSLY ???? This again


Tommy....what happened to all of your threads about the troubles you have had with the car since purchase ? Inquiring minds want to know as they actually contained helpful advice for people with future issues, and they have ALL completely vanished from the site.......

Posted by: mepstein Apr 8 2015, 07:34 PM

Reminds me of scotty boy right before he scamed a buyer for his rust bucket.

Posted by: somd914 Apr 8 2015, 07:47 PM

As for getting a nice late '80s Carrera sub $30k, that wasn't my experience when we looking for another one this past fall unless you want to go over 100k miles. But anyway...

From Hagertys... Based on what I saw at Amelia, I'd score his car between a 3 and 4 on Hagarty's scale, same as I would give my car. Assuming $15k-$20k for a nice '73 or '74 2.0 and $35-$40k for a lower mileage, nice G50 Carrera, so a selling price over $50k. With that in mind, the LE premium is at least $35k. If someone wants to pay that, there should be no thinking twice about it, just hope the buyer brings cash because I can't believe any classic car financier would go that high.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 08:29 PM

Wow, that bumblebee I posted about before sold for $8200.00. A bit rusty, in need of restoration & non numbers matching- this surprises even me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-LE-/201322070757?autorefresh=true

Posted by: poorsche914 Apr 8 2015, 08:50 PM

Wasn't there a BB that was in even worse condition than that one several months back that sold for $11,000+ on ebay? Guess it just depends on how badly someone wants an LE to restore.

Hmmm, I might be convinced to sell mine at those prices

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 08:59 PM

Your granddaughter will never allow it, or forgive you if you do.
At this point in time I'd have to say it might be worth it, because it seems right now you can restore a genuine LE & get your money back. As we all know, restoring a 914, LE or not, is very far from cheap.

Posted by: poorsche914 Apr 8 2015, 09:06 PM

True, but once you adopt me she could be the eventual caretaker of Knikki

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 8 2015, 09:11 PM

Knikki is not for sale & I'm a confirmed bachelor.
Nice thing is Steve you've seen her up close & personal so you know what kind of shape she's in.

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 9 2015, 08:45 AM

This thread has certainly had it's share of twists and turns.

One thing is for sure....there is no agreement on LE values.

Obviously, one forum member (who never exaggerates ) has turned down the deal of a lifetime.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 9 2015, 12:12 PM

Prices seem to be all over the board. I think the biggest factors are the condition of the car & weather or not the numbers match. I'm still stunned as to how much that BB sold for last night- seems like a lot for the condition it's in & the non matching numbers motor. Really makes me wonder about the value of my six. I guess it comes down to the old cliché: right time, right place, right stuff & right buyer.

Posted by: 87m491 Apr 9 2015, 12:37 PM

Au contraire, this bona fide offer and seeming sale says there was agreement. At least on this particular car.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-LE-/20...utorefresh=true

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 9 2015, 02:19 PM

Assuming the car actually sold.....

Posted by: MDG Apr 9 2015, 02:23 PM

The oldest saying, 'It's worth exactly as much as the buyer is willing to pay for it."

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 9 2015, 03:03 PM

Well it did sell, however weather or not the guy gets paid is a different matter I guess if it gets relisted we'll know for sure. I still can't get over it... $8200.00!

Posted by: billh1963 Apr 9 2015, 04:57 PM

As a member of ebay since 1999, my statement is based on the trials and tribulations of selling cars there. Many transactions do not go through and just as many "bids" (especially with dealers) as shill bids.

It will be interesting to see if the car reappears again.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Apr 9 2015, 05:46 PM

Hold the phone
Did Jamie locate the Original eng. for that car ?
My recollection is fuzzy but I thought not?

Posted by: mepstein Apr 9 2015, 07:03 PM

Not according to the build thread. Which leads to my doubts about the true mileage. Why does a low milage car have a replacement engine and bad trans? Just wondering...

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Apr 9 2015, 07:27 PM

My car was purchased by my Father 41 years ago & has been in my family ever since. It has it's original engine, transaxle, paperwork, window sticker, etc... & has never been for sale or changed hands. Think you got me confused w/ someone else.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 9 2015, 07:38 PM

Rich is referring to Jamie's build thread. Your good

Posted by: 914werke Apr 10 2015, 06:33 AM

Misquote.

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 10 2015, 09:45 AM

I think you are confusing cars. Above, I was referring to Al's(JohnnyBlackstain) car. It IS #'s matching, documented and has a clean title. The other LE has none of those features.

Posted by: tumamilhem Apr 28 2015, 12:45 PM

Creamsicle for sale. Only €57,750.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=254522

Posted by: Frankvw May 17 2016, 02:23 PM

well....another update soon to the prices of LE's
Almost ending on Ebay, the creamsicle of Curtmon03
First on 914world classifieds for 25K
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=282771
now for 22K buy-now on Ebay (eBay item number:231940232291) and highest bid around 17K with 6 hours to go
Needs some work, but is numbers matching, a driver car, was already discussed on the forum

Posted by: 87m491 May 18 2016, 12:44 PM

Well the market has spoken, at least one LE's value, $20,670! Color me somewhat surprised.

http://r.ebay.com/JIG1Ee

Posted by: sda4property@gmail.com May 23 2016, 09:21 PM

What is up that bee on ebay that has been listed for a year..?
Jeff says it is on registry..This thing needs to sell. Draggin us down.

Posted by: Sedonut May 23 2016, 11:45 PM

LE Bumblebee sold today on Bring a trailer for $15,000

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-2-0-le-2/

Correct 2.0, non matching engine. Low miles. Looked nice. That's today's price.

Posted by: 87m491 May 24 2016, 04:33 AM

Interesting, I made the owner an offer right there last year after seeing it in person. Interesting price comparison to the Ebay creamsicle.