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Posted by: McMark Dec 8 2005, 01:05 AM

The 125 HP, $5000 Type IV is now available!

Jake has chosen me to help make this engine a reality. This engine is a tried and true combo that Jake has developed over the years and all head work and assembly is done by me. Jake has created a special package for us that is not available on his website. I get the full package from him, and then I have your heads rebuilt and bolt it all together. This setup will produce about 125 hp with carbs or tunable EFI and 110 hp with stock D-Jet or L-Jet*.

This engine is a 2056cc longblock with a special cam, full balance job and fully rebuilt heads will all new parts (seats, valves, guides, etc). This is not your run of the mill engine rebuild and this is not a "discount" engine. No corners are cut to reduce the price. Jake and I have worked out a deal that allows me to offer a QUALITY engine for only $5000. The balance job is Jake's "Improved Balance", the head parts are modified and tweaked for longevity, the lifters are proven to not go flat, and best of all the combo is proven to make power. Making power with the Type IV is all in the combo, as Jake has proven again and again. The engine comes to you already broken in and ready for you to bolt up your carbs or FI. You can use your stock heater boxes, although a header system will give you a 7% gain, and a Tangerine header system will get you a 15% boost.

There is a $750 refundable core charge for a 2.0 core engine, or the following pieces:
* Flywheel
* 2.0 crank
* 2.0 rods
* Cooling fan with NO broken fins
* 1.7 style rocker arms (13 mm adjuster nut)

In addition, you will need to supply:
* 1.8 or 2.0 heads that will be rebuilt.
Condition is irrelevant and un-rebuilt heads are preferred. If you have heads that have already been "rebuilt" those heads will either be rebuilt again by me or if you insist on not having them rebuilt there will be no warranty on the engine. Cracks are acceptable and will be repaired during the rebuild process.
* Case (any 914 case will work just fine)
* Taco Plate + O-Ring
* Oil Filter Console
* Oil Bypass Springs/Pistons
* Drain Plug
* Distributor Drive Gear + Special Washer
* Under Cylinder Engine Tin
* Oil Cooler
* Oil Cooler Thick Washers
* Fan Mount + Bolts
* Oil Baffle + Seals (OPTIONAL)
* Oil Pressure Switch OR Pressure Sender
* Oil Filler + Bail
* Head Nuts + Washers
* Through Bolts
* Oil Pickup
* Sump Cover
* Endplay Shims
* Distributor Clamp
* Valve Covers + Bails
* Rocker Shafts
* Rocker Shaft Mounts

These engines are a longblock only, no tin, no ignition, no exhaust and no installation. Everything on the engine is freshened/rebuilt, including the following:
* Rebuilt and balanced set of crank and rods
* Fully balanced rotating assembly that has been balance one step above what's normally available in his kits (extra value above buying a kit directly from Jake)
* New pistons, rings, cylinders
* Fully rebuilt heads with all new parts that are modified by Jake (new special seats, new special guides, new valves, new springs, new retainers, new keepers, any cracks repaired)
* New hardware kit to replace worn out nuts and bolts
* New cam and Jake's custom lifters that work
* Custom cut ChroMoly pushrods
* New clutch disk and pressure plate
* Case galley plugs tapped for threaded inserts

These engines come with a 6-month, 6k mile limited warranty. I will, of course, be standing behind my work, as always. Note that installing ignition and induction can be tricky and a poorly tuned engine can kill a perfectly good rebuild.

These engines will take roughly 3-4 months to build from order to delivery depending on shipping times and how quickly I can receive the kits from Jake.

These kits will not require an external oil cooler in most climates, but is very dependent on how well the engine is tuned. If you install one of my motors that runs hot, my first question will be the state of tune.

Installation is available for additional cost, PM me for details.




For those of you who don't have 2.0 engine core parts, I'm also offering a 1911cc longblock designed by Jake that makes 90 hp with carbs*. These engines go for $4500 which will save you $1250 off the 2056cc engine since you don't need the cores. This engine is comparable to a stock 2.0 and can use the stock 2.0 D-Jet.

If you have any questions about either of these engines, feel free to ask me. Don't both asking Jake about these engines because he'll send you right back to me. These engines are fully designed by Jake, but all responsibility lies with me.



*Horsepower numbers are quoted using a Mallory distributor, 2.0 heads and SSI 2.0 heater boxes.

Posted by: McMark Dec 8 2005, 01:07 AM

I have one 2056 kit ready to go and as a promotion, the first buyer will get $500 off.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Dec 8 2005, 01:35 AM

So mark the 1911 is built of off what core parts a 1.8?

Posted by: Jake Raby Dec 8 2005, 01:41 AM

I'll only be weighing in here with this single post....

I have the confidence that Mark can support my components and products enough to make this a reality. I have worked out an arrangement that allows Mark to provide a 100% balanced assembly (balanced to my intermediate spec) with a known design and known result. The carbureted version of this engine is EXACTING the engine in my 912E that was built 3.5 years ago from used parts primarily and has carried my ass 90K miles without a hitch and pure abuse and neglect.

Mark is "The man" for these kits. I have only offered him the 1911 and 2056 arrangements as these kits work excellent with absolute bone stock heads that he can have machined locally as our head work is what drastically increases prices, but is not a necessity on engines in this state of tune. Mark will be getting all our components for the heads, however, including our cryoed seats, proprietary guides and the necessary springs and guides.

I have sent Mark extensive dyno information from the combos he has stated and I time and again received these results when I still built a lot of engines of this power level.

Basically Mark is in the position to provide you guys with exactly what you have been looking for, based on good parts that are easy (and cheap) for him to assemble with just a little more effort than normal on my end.

I will close by saying that my parts and designs are being used for this endeavor, but I will only be supporting these kits via Mark. he can answer all your questions and particulars just as well as I can at this point.
he has one kit just a few days away from being assembled- who is going to be first???

(Now back in the foxhole)

Posted by: Grimstead Dec 8 2005, 08:14 AM

So, in theory if I want a 2056cc but haven't a 2L core it would be $5500?

Posted by: McMark Dec 8 2005, 10:32 AM

The 1911 uses a 66mm crank which came in either the 1.8 or the 1.7 and a set of 96mm pistons & cylinders. It's a nice engine that's comparable to a stock 2.0, but feels slightly different because of the short stroke, big bore setup.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Dec 8 2005, 10:47 AM

Ahh.. so 96 mm P&C's so 2.0 heads

Posted by: McMark Dec 8 2005, 10:53 AM

Yes, it would be $5500. That's exactly right.

Except, there is that promotion slot that still hasn't been filled.

Posted by: McMark Dec 8 2005, 11:09 AM

This engine needs either 1.8 heads or 2.0 heads. Both have the same cylinder diameter. 1.7 heads can be opened up to fit as well. Like all of these engines, I rebuild what I'm given. So if you want the performance boost that 2.0 heads give, then I can put them on. If you don't want to deal with the expense of 2.0 heads, 1.8 heads can be used. This goes for the 2056 as well, 1.8 heads can be used for either.

Posted by: r_towle Dec 10 2005, 10:35 PM

I think it is wonderful that you are stepping up to provide this service... I applaud both you and Jake for this move..

I am almost ashamed that no-one has jumped at this deal...

Everyone that was whining should step forward.

I suggest you put a marker in the main garage forum...I was just bored and came here to see what was new...

Rich

Posted by: McMark Dec 10 2005, 10:53 PM

I don't want to be overly self promotional.

But, I'm really surprised that no one has either.

I really thought I was helping fill a need for affordable, powerful engines. 125 hp in a 914 is A BLAST! When other 914 owners have ridden in my black car they were impressed with the power and it's only got 86 hp. A 50% improvement in power would be WILD! I think people get caught up in the numbers and don't realize just how fast 125 hp 914 is.

Posted by: McMark Dec 11 2005, 12:04 AM

124.7 HP, 130.7 ft/lbs Torque.


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Posted by: Hammy Dec 11 2005, 02:08 AM

Sounds awesome.
so is this 2056 setup basically the 2056 kit offered by Jake or.. ?

Posted by: McMark Dec 11 2005, 12:17 PM

There are actually a couple hundred dollars worth of improvements over the kit from Jake. It comes with the next step up of balancing from the kit as well as a complete, brand new engine hardware kit. So you're actually getting a better deal than just buying the kit from Jake.

Posted by: Grimstead Dec 11 2005, 01:08 PM

Mark, If I wasn't in the middle of a huge remodeling project ( ) on my house, I think I would be all over this one.

Now, if you wanted to do some kind of layaway...

Posted by: lagunero Dec 11 2005, 09:09 PM

You are and I also applaud you. Problem is there are two big groups that make up the majority of 914er's. Those who know what it takes because they've BTDT and now don't need a motor and those who are about to find out the hard way and will have depleted their funds trying and later unable to purchase your motors. Me, I'm in the "where was this a year ago" group and I have the receipts to prove it.

Posted by: Hammy Dec 11 2005, 09:30 PM

My old tired 1.7 probably had 70hp, if even that. 125 must be wild.

Posted by: Jake Raby Dec 12 2005, 09:46 AM

Yet again this group has proven that you can literally give them EXACTLY what they want for the price they want and they still won't open their wallet- not even an ounce!

The only way this was going to work for Mark, or myself was with volume sales and its pretty apparent that the volume won't be worth the effort we (Mark and I) have already put into it.

Posted by: Hammy Dec 12 2005, 10:03 AM

now Jake... give it time. I'm interested and Mark and i have been discussing engine details.

Posted by: spare time toys Dec 12 2005, 12:03 PM

Its been what all of 4 days since the first post.

Posted by: Jake Raby Dec 12 2005, 12:54 PM

Heck with as much interest this had you wuld have thought the intro kit would have sold in 15 minutes...

Mark has to buy these kits from me 3 at a time to get these prices, so the only way this is going to happen is with volume.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 13 2005, 05:02 PM

Well shoot I just happened to stumble on one of Mark's post's
Hmmmm What's the link? Clickety Click and whala I missed the whole damn thing.
So bump for the guys who need a motor.
I am confident I can do a kit myself so I am in the "other group" of BTDT.

as for a 914 with a 125 HP Oh yea they are a blast.
I already know I will want more to be competative in SM-2 so I'll be going bigger.

Posted by: fkelso Dec 13 2005, 11:48 PM

I think the lukewarm response is simple, the price is
just way to high!

Posted by: McMark Dec 14 2005, 03:17 AM

There's only one way to get a cheaper engine, build it yourself. And buy all the tools you need. And learn all the tricks there are. And exactly how long is that going to take? So, in reality, it's still not really cheaper.

I know $5k is a fair chunk of change (hell, I couldn't afford it ) but in terms of the economy of it, it cannot be done any cheaper without compromising quality. And if you start compromising quality, what's the point?

I can understand that $5k is a lot of money, but if you're going to say it's not worth $5k or that the same engine could be built for cheaper, then I'm pissed off. The profit margin on this project is very slim. I'm doing it because I thought there needed to be a relatively cheap option for 914 owners.

Whatever, now I'm pissed off. Maybe I should just start building them for free.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 14 2005, 06:50 AM

Mark honestly I don't know how many people have seen this as it is not in the "garage". I only stumbled on it.
The last motor (warmed over 2.0L) I built was done nearly as a favor Still cost the guy 2500 bucks so I know where you are coming from. My labor came out to about .10 cents an hour.
I guess the only way to get someone to buy a motor is to give free rides in a hopped up teener.

After I drove Jake's car I knew I wanted a 2316. Hell I even tried to buy his motor from him but something went askew in the whole thing.

Hell there are a couple of guys that have driven my car (Loyal Honda fans) that said they are now looking for a 914 to race. one guy got his check book out to buy it on the spot.

How do you market a motor? I don't know I'm just a good ole boy with a knack for turning wrenches. I just don't think the 914 market will make much profit selling engines. Heck just look at where most of Jake's motors go... not that many 914's cept real race cars.

Don't even think flipping 914-6 conversions ala Camp 914 is a big money maker. Labor of love maybe...

Posted by: Paul Illick Dec 14 2005, 07:29 AM

Don't want to hijack the thread, but jeez Jake, did it ever occur to you that insulting an entire segment of your potential customers might not be a real effective marketing move? "Step up! PROVE you're not all deadbeats!" That's sure not going to sell me, and I don't think it's doing Mark any favors, either.

Posted by: blitZ Dec 14 2005, 08:54 AM

When I read this person's post, I took it as a joke. Not sure why it was taken so seriously, I'm fairly new here, but this is from a person with 6 posts.

Posted by: fkelso Dec 14 2005, 11:04 PM

Mark, sorry, I didn't mean to piss you off, I'm sure you do a good job on these
engines, and I know type 4 parts are not cheap. I hope you do well selling these,
but I just think 5k is more than most people are willing to spend, even for a high
quality engine. Good luck

Posted by: Jake Raby Dec 15 2005, 12:17 AM

Paul,
Its just very baffling to receive emails and PMs saying" Man if you can somehow do the 5K engine buy , I'd be in line yesterday".... Then all of a sudden it happens and ALL those peoploe are gone, won't reply to emails and don't open their wallets. I'm talking not one or two people, but at least 8! I don't know why I let it bother me, its the same thing that happened with the rod buy and other peple's group buys here.... To be told something and then basically lied to is more of an insult to me than about anything else.

fkelso,
If you read this post top to bottom you'll see that a lot of people said 5K was more than acceptable for an engine of this state of build. This is what Mark and I based the project on and it certainly hasn't went anywhere as of yet.

As far as being pissed off, well I'm not... This person is just plain ignorant to make an assumption of the price being way too high when he has no frigging clue what the kit entails or how long it takes to assemble the engine first hand..... If you think 5K is too much for this engine- you certainly don't need to own a car with a Porsche crest on the hood- go buy a damn Fiero!
Rant off....

I do know that this time of year is financially draining so we are not giving up yet... Good weather and spring brings open wallets and guys that want power fast.... This kit will do that, so it may still be able to happen after the holidays... I hope so, but if not atleast Mark and I got to know each other better.

Posted by: Grimstead Dec 15 2005, 01:55 PM

5,000 Dollars is alot of money for just about anyone. But I believe this engine will be worth it. As long as you have the offer open for a few more months, I will be calling!

Posted by: ewdysar Dec 15 2005, 02:52 PM

For anyone that needs an engine built right now, this looks like a great deal. But this is one project that most people won't undertake if their current engine is working. So I'm guessing that it's more an issue of timing. How many 914 rebuilds get done in a year, what percentage of those have enough money to even consider it, then of them, how many would rather do it themselves. This is definately a niche, but over time I think that quite a few people will take advantage of this deal. If I ever get another teener, this will be on my short list...

Eric

Posted by: McMark Dec 15 2005, 03:16 PM

Glad to hear guys. Thanks for the support.

We need to have a dyno day so people can realize how little power their cars have. It seems like most people with 2.0s quote their engines as 90 hp, yet low 80 is more realistic, and that'd only be for a brand new motor. I bet there's plenty of mileage motors with old D-Jet are probably pushing out more like 70 hp or less. So we're talking about almost a double in horsepower for those people with "good running" stock 2.0 motors. Talk about an upgrade.

Posted by: blitZ Dec 15 2005, 04:40 PM

I noticed how much enthusiam was stirred by the Suby donut video thread, which was impressive. Maybe you could do some visual marketing with a before and after quarter mile at your local strip on their run what ya brung day.

Posted by: McMark Dec 16 2005, 11:26 PM

The $500 discount engine has been claimed.

Posted by: chrisg Dec 17 2005, 10:45 AM

curious what specs (ignition, exhuast, etc.) were for dyno graph engine.

Posted by: McMark Dec 17 2005, 11:38 AM

40 IDF carbs, Mallory distributor, 2.0 SSI heater boxes, and 2.0 914 heads..

Either carbs of aftermarket EFI will give these numbers. Stock FI will suck the power out of it because of the cam it requires.

The stock distributor's advance curve is matched to the stock FI, so upgrading the carbs or aftermarket EFI means that the advance curve is no longer ideal. The Mallory has a much better advance curve for those induction systems.

2.0 heater boxes (SSI or stock) flow better than 1.7 boxes, and the SSI flows better than stock. So 1.7 is the worst, 2.0 stock is next, and the best is 2.0 SSIs.

And finally, the 2.0 914 head has bigger valves, a nice combustion chamber design and a much better spark plug angle.

None of this stuff is crazy parts to "stack the dyno". These are all commonly recommended parts that tons of people are using to increase the power from their engines.

Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 18 2005, 12:34 AM

You couldn't have posted this in the general forum! Either that or I work too much and missed! This is the first I saw this!

Congrats Mark and Jake on your new venture!

I'm posting a link in the general forum. If the admins want to move it let them! This is news worthy!

Posted by: McMark Dec 18 2005, 12:41 AM

Rick, I couldn't post it there myself in good conscience. Gotta follow the rules of the forum, right?

Thanks for the link. The interest is growing.

Posted by: lotus_65 Dec 18 2005, 11:28 AM

i've been on the phone with jake since last friday and i think he alluded to this deal... but didn't lead me there.
but if i had seen it before this moment, i would have seriously considered it, probably jumped on it.

i have to take my little one sledding, but i'll send off a pm w/questions to you later, mcmark.

i think it's great news for those in need!

Posted by: GWN7 Dec 18 2005, 12:36 PM

I didn't read this thread till Rick posted the crossover thread. Sounds like a deal...too bad about the timing (for me)

Posted by: IanStott Dec 20 2005, 07:36 PM

Seriously interested Mark, should I PM you/phone you/send a post card/?? Have even taken on an extra job solely to fund 914 stuff!!! Btw are you going to have another show this coming year?

Ian Stott
Moncton

Posted by: McMark Dec 21 2005, 02:21 AM

PM me or give me a call at 707-738-5686. Or post cards are nice.

Posted by: JmuRiz Dec 21 2005, 12:28 PM

I hope you continue to get interest in these engine packages...seem like a good deal. Especially knowing that the specs on that engine were SSI HE's and webber 40 carbs!

Like one of the others, I have recently bought a house and will have to wait till after my garage construction project to get serious about an engine. If you are still going it by then I'll give you a buzz.

Would this engine work with Dell 45s? I have a set, along with some webber 40's...hmmmm.

for doing this, just hope it's still around once I drop a few scores of thousands of dollars on a garage.

Also, for those that think $5k is a lot for an engine...how about $2200 for a timing belt change (with the seals, tensioners, etc) and 60k service on an audi! And that's the best deal and best guys in the area! German cars ain't cheap and good parts are getting more expensive by the DAY.

Posted by: Rgreen914 Dec 21 2005, 02:44 PM

Brother I know what you mean about buying a house! We purchased a second home, 200 miles away in Central California, and they do eat up a lot of money that would usually go to more "recreational" projects. We were originally going to rent out this second home but have decided not to since the wife is having too much fun decorating it to risk damage from renters; the long drive, hauling furniture and stuff, all that way just to get to work on a house gets to be sooooo much fun...!

Ron

Posted by: McMark Dec 22 2005, 03:30 AM

I'll still be offering them. I expect things will ramp up after christmas. And I have a few other things in the works as well.

I also know as soon as the first person, who isn't me, posts about how mind blowing 125 hp is in a 914, there will be more interest.

Posted by: JmuRiz Dec 22 2005, 09:54 AM

I wish there was one local for me to ride in...
I did ride in a modded Beatle with a local guy, was shocked when he took off! Can't remember off hand but it 'only' had 130-135hp..and it felt better than a friends 99 mustang GT...if that really means anything, haha.

Posted by: Rob Ways Dec 22 2005, 10:29 PM

Mark and Jake,

Your $5k engine sounds like a winner. While I'm not looking for an engine right now, I hope you both are still pumping them out when I am looking to buy one.

Good luck you guys!

Rob Ways

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 23 2005, 01:39 PM

My thoughts exactly...in fact I've got $5K burning a hole in me pocket right now and it's VERY tempting to just hand it over to McMark. But I think I better do the "adult" thing and pay off our Boxster.

Hang in there guys, the orders will happen over time.

pete

Posted by: McMark Dec 23 2005, 01:53 PM

Who wants to be an adult?

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 23 2005, 02:34 PM

Mark,
I am trying to decide if I want to attempt a build with one of Jake's 2056 Kits or have one of these 5K motors built.
Can you expand on what is exactly included with the 5K motor?
does it include dropping the old and installing the new or is just for the motor (self installed)? I have a stock running 74 2.0L to use for the core.
I would like to use injection but don't want to go thru the hassle of rebuild and be stuck losing 15-20 hp staying with stock injection. Thoughts?
If you would like to PM me that is fine. If I decided to go with the 5K motor about how long before the build could be done?

Many thanks

I think it is great you and Jake are making this available.

Posted by: McMark Dec 23 2005, 03:04 PM

The $5k motor price is a longblock.

No tin, no carbs, no ignition, no exhaust, and no installation. This sounds very negative, but I just want to be absolutely clear. The price of parts is the majority of the cost, so there's hardly any margin on it. A quality engine just can't be built any cheaper without compromise and there is no room for extras.

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 23 2005, 03:23 PM

"The $5k motor price is a longblock.

No tin, no carbs, no ignition, no exhaust, and no installation. This sounds very negative, but I just want to be absolutely clear. The price of parts is the majority of the cost, so there's hardly any margin on it. A quality engine just can't be built any cheaper without compromise and there is no room for extras."

Ok all that is fine. I have all of that. Now what specific parts and services are included?

Also if I want the maximum HP available from this build what induction and ignition would be suggested?
If I decided to stay with the stock injection and ignition would that work effectively without major drivability issues? And run cool?
Thanks

Posted by: McMark Dec 23 2005, 03:40 PM

Here's what's included:

• Rebuilt set of crank and rods
  
• Fully balanced rotating assembly that has been balance one step above what's normally available in his kits
  
• New pistons, rings, cylinders
  
• Fully rebuilt heads with all new parts that are modified by Jake (new special seats, new special guides, new valves, new springs, new retainers, new keepers, any cracks repaired)
  
• New hardware kit
  
• New cam and Jake's custom lifters that work
  
• Custom pushrods
  
• New clutch disk and pressure plate
  

Posted by: YksKrad Dec 24 2005, 05:34 PM

Agreed, I'm interested, but just dropped a good portion of my savings into my daily driver... And I'd like to try to build up my own before I buy one.

I met a guy who just roached a converted bug, so I'll send him this way if I see him anytime soon. I'm not sure if he's looking into a new motor or if he has the funds, but I'll pass the word allong, seems like a great deal as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: Racer Dec 27 2005, 06:36 PM

Sounds like a nice engine. I had one of similar power in my 914 and constantly harrassed 200+hp 911s at the track and autocross courses.

A couple of questions I have is, besides the "longblock" that is the basis of this motor, do you have any estimates for the rest of the stuff needed to complete the motor. I don't have a core motor.. nothing. I am looking for a complete motor for "plug and play" purposes. If this motor is 5K, carbs, distributor, starter blah blah.. is this, for me, really an $8k motor? all for my $4k "roller". ouch.

Not slighting the product, just suprised how quickly the $$ can add up.

Posted by: McMark Dec 27 2005, 08:04 PM

Longblock - $5500 (no core)
Distributor (Mallory) - $350
Carbs/FI - $1000

Now just add exhaust and a few misc items (tin, fan housing, etc).

So total would be $7000-$7500 depending on options.
But you could get the 1911 which doesn't need a core for $1000 less.
The price adds up very quickly when you have to start completely from scratch.

The cost of a quality engine will be more than most people bought their cars for, but these parts for these engines are not cheap and anything that costs less than this is cutting corners somewhere.

Posted by: ThinAir914 Dec 31 2005, 11:29 AM

WOW! I just stumbled across this because I saw the link in Mark's signature. I'm in the "where were you a year ago" camp, but I want to say that I think this is a great offering.

I just finished rebuilding a 2.0L. My goal was to run stock D-Jet FI, but have slightly higher compression & better cam to get a little more HP while still running regular fuel. I used Euro flat-top pistons, got the cam I wanted, had to learn how to cc my heads so I could get the right barrel spacers from Jake to set the deck height for 8.1:1 compression. Jake never actually offered his kit of sealants in his online store so I had to figure out on my own what to use. I finally totalled my parts costs after the engine was installed and came up with $3200.

The engine seems to run great and doesn't leak a drop of oil, but I'm running mid-grade fuel because after only 500 miles I had run-on problems after shutting off the engine and switching from regular to mid-grade has stopped this, but at a cost of $.10 more per gallon. So the bottom line for me is that although I think I did well, and I enjoyed building the engine myself, I'm left with some nagging thoughts about some of the design decisions that I made and wondering if I should have done things differently.

Based on my experience, the next time I have a need for a Type IV engine, I'm going to be calling Mark. To get the proven DESIGN that Jake is offering, not to mention not having to invest the time involved in building the long block, is well worth it. Yes $5,000 is a good sized chunk of change, but the additional $1,800 is well worth it for knowing that you have a proven design that will last.

Posted by: ppickerell Dec 31 2005, 01:46 PM

I also just ran across this and timing is wrong for me as I am down the path (somewhat errantly) with another builder, but I have some questions as well.


What will the warranty be on these?
What will you be advertising as build times?
No external oil cooler required?
Will you be offering installs?
Terms?

Good luck with this Mark. Nice to see you step up to the plate. Be patient! Customer service is everything.

Posted by: pnewman Dec 31 2005, 08:26 PM

My 1.8 liter is developing some engine noise. and I would love to have 125hp. Actually sounds like a dream....

Just finished doing a trans rebuild and can't imagine dumping that kind of change on her (5k$).

I have had this car about 10 yrs and although I am attatched to her I still must be honest.

emotions aside. The resale value of my girl in know way warrants such an expenditure.



I think that a used boxter is looking really good when you start pushing the 10k range in a 914 plus my own labor. Especially with the resale value again.

But all being said when mine finally goes I'll probably break down sobbing and call you however. That is after finding a 2.0 ltr organ doner


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Posted by: McMark Jan 1 2006, 03:01 PM

Patrick,

I'm not exactly sure what I will be advertising as a warranty. But I will be standing behind my work, as always. I know that people want to see a number to boost their confidence. I would be interested to know what people think is fair. I was thinking a 6-month, 6k mile limited warranty.

My build time quotes will become more accurate as I get settled into the process of ordering and getting the heads rebuilt. I've never done this sort of "mass-produced" engine building before. I expect the whole process from placing the order to delivery to take two months. I'm being conservative here because I don't want to over promise myself from the get-go.

External oil cooler requirements will be similar to stock engines. It's conceivable that members who live in very hot climates might need an extra cooler. But most will not.

Yes, I will be offering installs.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by terms.

I've added a bunch of pages to http://www.paintandmetal.com/engines.php for the engines.

Posted by: McMark Jan 1 2006, 03:09 PM

pnewman,

Resale value and cost effectiveness is an issue that I'm very aware of. I hold the opinion that 914 prices are increasing fairly quickly for nicely restored cars. But these cars will probably never be resalable for a profit. I'd say that having an engine that's rebuild by a professional shop with a good reputation is a much better investment than a home rebuilt engine. I'm speaking from the hypothetical perspective of a potential buyer of a 914.

Posted by: bd1308 Jan 6 2006, 12:18 AM

wow...I didnt know heads were rebuilt/opened up.

thats at least 2000 in and of itself.

hmm....

b

Posted by: McMark Jan 6 2006, 01:11 AM

Yep. Everything on this engine is worked over.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 6 2006, 10:27 AM

that makes a good deal a great deal!!

Posted by: golfguy Jan 6 2006, 10:31 AM

I'm assuming the reason people have not stepped up and Not to be an A-hole but its probably because for a little more you can do a v-8 conversion and have 250 hp easy I understand this is easier to do however its still $5000.00 for 125 hp thats $40.00 per hp quite pricey......sorry to play devils advocate...

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 6 2006, 10:52 AM

some guys want a V8 in their 914 but most don't when they go to buy. Guys that buy these cars want original as possible more and more these days.

Posted by: YksKrad Jan 6 2006, 11:11 AM

I think you're overlooking a major detail...
If you payed to have v8 put in compaired to one of these, I think you would find that a v8 is no where near a compairable price.

A v8 is only a "little more" if you don't value your labor.

Posted by: McMark Jan 6 2006, 11:21 AM

My engine has the conversions beat on install time, or time-till-driving.

I'm not setting out to compete with any of the conversions, six, subie, v8 or otherwise. I'm just interested in supporting the "stock" engine market with the most affordable, well built engine possible. I think I've done that and there have been a few people who have stepped up to the plate so I'm satisfied that they are out there.

I'm trying very hard to have my extra car fixed and one of these engines in it before the WCC so people can test drive it.

Posted by: rpmmaxxed Jan 7 2006, 01:04 PM

Been a lil while longer since then. In 2 months or so, im pullin a loan me thinks... 125 hp, reliable, new engine means no worries, just keep up maintanance... for 5K, what more could you ask for?

Posted by: McMark Jan 7 2006, 01:09 PM

Exactly. Let me know when you're ready and we'll get you set up.

Posted by: TROJANMAN Jan 10 2006, 11:37 PM

maybe we should piss you off more often so we can all get free engines

if i didn't have my engine rebuilt earlier this year, i would be ordering one right now.

Thanks for doing the work on these Mark

Jake, quit complaining about cheap 914 owners, really annoying.


FYI, i spent close to $5k on my 2.0 rebuild, so i think this is a very fair price.
this price actually has me considering the purchase of a roller, just so i have a reason to buy one of these engines.

Posted by: McMark Jan 11 2006, 12:30 AM

Too bad. I'm not pissed off anymore. No more free engines.

You don't have to buy a roller. Everyone needs a spare engine.

Posted by: Hammy Jan 11 2006, 02:28 AM

How will these engines do in hot weather? (100+ degree summers) Or will it need additional cooling for that?
And you say you will be offering installs?

Posted by: McMark Jan 11 2006, 03:57 PM

Zack, the engine shouldn't have a problem with hot days, as long as it's tuned correctly. A lean running engine on a hot day is never a good idea. If you're nervous, I would highly recommend an accurate oil temp gauge with numbers, and a CHT gauge. Actually, everyone should have those two gauges.

Posted by: pnewman Jan 11 2006, 04:43 PM

Who's a good source for a cht gauge and matching sending unit. Trying to match vdo oem on center console.

Posted by: lapuwali Jan 11 2006, 05:19 PM

VDO makes a CHT gauge and sender. They're available all over place, mostly at Bug shops.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jan 11 2006, 07:10 PM

yup, cheapest online I found was cbperformance for $60

Posted by: McMark Jan 11 2006, 09:27 PM

I heard James (morphenspectra) was selling VDOs.

Posted by: Hammy Jan 11 2006, 10:38 PM

Mark.. you say you will be offering installs?

Posted by: McMark Jan 11 2006, 10:40 PM

Whoops, forgot to answer that part.

Yeah, I can install the engines as well.

Posted by: jetboy Jan 16 2006, 07:03 AM

Im just curious, if you can put together (basically) the 2056 for 5g's, why not offer a 2270 or 2316? If your motor is about 2g over the kit offered, then maybe put 3g over a 2316 build (around 8000). I would certainly jump on a 160-170hp motor for 8000 built nice. ahhh... dreams....

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 16 2006, 10:15 AM

The answer to this question is simple..

The bigger engines REQUIRE the time and preparation (and design) that demands the extra cost.

If I sold a kit to Mark for a 2270, for him to make a dime from it, the cost would be near the same as the cost for my complete engine.

There are too many risks associated with creating performance "longblocks" of increased displacement and letting the installer be responsible for the set up.

The 2056 and 1911 kits are very easy to work with and this is why those engines are offered.

Giving an inexperienced person a 2270 in longblock form would be like handing a grendae to a 3 year old- its only a matter of time before something goes boom! Things going BOOM are not good for mark and certainly are devestating for me- I reduce the chances of these things as much as possible, thats why I only build Turn Key complete engines 100% dyno tuned.

IF someone wants a 2270 complete from Mark, based on one of my kits, he and I will talk. One thing is for certain, it still won't be "cheap".

Posted by: JmuRiz Jan 16 2006, 01:11 PM

If I understand correctly, the 2056 is more of a drop-in upgrade and the larger engines require clearencing of the block and different (more $) cranks etc.
Like they say, the more HP you want the more money it'll cost, exponentially...so the 125hp for $5k is the best bang for the buck type IV engine out there.

Posted by: jetboy Jan 16 2006, 02:26 PM

According to your website it says, "Now you can build your own 2270cc kit with confidence- Just like we do here! The 2270cc kit has all of the same features as our other engine kits and is sold complete. This kit goes together very easily, just like a mild stroker Type I"

So, does that mean Mark is experienced enough to put on of these together? When the words "goes together very easily" are used, what experience level must you be in order to actually put this together? Im just not understanding the reason to buy a 2270 kit if it requires an easy charge of around 5-7000 (bringing it close to your price for a complete engine). Even here the site says, "Benefit from our years of development with this highly refined, easy to assemble and easy to set up and tune engine by purchasing your 2270 engine kit from the Type 4 Store". Im not sure if simply paying 5000+ for assembly can be classified as easy.

Sorry for jumping slightly OT, just trying to figure out an actually price comparison between equal /4 and /6 engines and ease to maintain. If a weekend mechanic cant easily build an engine, then the troubleshooting and repair work must be done by an experienced shop which now increases the price and benifits of remaining with the /4 and getting great power from it.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 16 2006, 06:27 PM

QUOTE

Sorry for jumping slightly OT, just trying to figure out an actually price comparison between equal /4 and /6 engines and ease to maintain. If a weekend mechanic cant easily build an engine, then the troubleshooting and repair work must be done by an experienced shop which now increases the price and benifits of remaining with the /4 and getting great power from it.

/4 motor: bolt right in, use all stock components, can upgrade parts at your leisure.....with this deal you are looking at $1250 per cylinder


/6 motor: for a fair comparison, you'd have to rebuild the engine at a cost of $1000 to $1500 per cylinder ($6K to $9K) and then add the thousands of dollars for the conversion.

the engine offer from Mark is for people that do not want to build the motor or feel they cannot build it, even thou with enough instruction anyone should be able to build it yet they choose not to....nothing wrong with letting someone else deal with the assembly and procuring all the parts needed........

Posted by: jetboy Jan 16 2006, 08:22 PM

Thats almost directly my point. If Mark is decent enough builder to make the 2056, then (according to the aircooled site listing the 2317 build as EASY) it would seem like an $3000 on top of the purchase of a 2270 kit at about $4700 and the 2316 kit @ $4800(brings it to about 8000). The 2056 kit is about $3200 (labor added for complete build $1800), so, for about an additional $1500 in parts and an additional $3200 for complete build i would pay that.

I understand that Mark is doing a service for those of us who probably dont want to tackle an engine build and i certainly thank him for that. I was just curious if he would be willing to put together a larger package for those of us who would like 150+hp that one of the 2270 or 2317 kits would provide. And since the website said the kit goes together easily, then i didnt think think it was an issue until Jake said that only experienced ppl should put this kit together (this was after i asked if Mark had thought about it).

My other point was, if these larger kits are so difficult to just assemble (i can only assume the machine work is included with the kit) then if anything failed, would you need to be a master mechanic to repair? Specialty parts and price for maintaining would then even out between the supposedly more expensive /6.

I understand the price difference about a conversion, but, once its done you dont have to do it again. You can even start out with a 2.4 /6 (even in T trim is 140hp) and find one for about $2500-3000. Possible full rebuild (which would probably change to E, S, or even 2.5) might be around 8000. So, for around 9-11,000 bucks you have a reliable engine with power and that you can probably work on and not be considered a 3yr old with a handgrenade.

Ok, was a long post, i just wanted to know if Mark was able to look at a bigger kit for some who would like an option for more power without going /6 (and not having to pay 12,000+ whatever MIGHT be added later plus a estimated 10month wait.) That was all. If Jake says Mark cant put the 2317 together for about $3200, then i guess the /6 rebuild costs might be closer than one thinks.

Posted by: McMark Jan 16 2006, 09:59 PM

As far as adding a 2270 to my line-up: Jake and I have talked about it. But decided that it was best left for the future. If things go well with our relationship and the 2056/1911 engines are selling well then we might add a 2270 or 2316 to the line-up. Right now I'm very content with how things are going. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew.

Pertaining to me building larger motors: I am available for this and it will be handled on a case by case basis. If you're interested in this contact me privately and we'll talk about what it's going to take. There is a lot more checking and measuring to be done on a 2270 build. So it wouldn't be as easy as taking the labor price of a 2056 and tacking it onto a 2270 kit price. Again, if you're interested in this, I'm willing to talk it over via PM/email.

Posted by: jetboy Jan 16 2006, 10:39 PM

Cant argue with that. Once again, thnx for the service you are providing to this community McMark. Just a bump this time for a great option for Teeners.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 17 2006, 12:15 PM

Sure Mark can build a 2270 or 2316 with my kit easily, heck I have had a 15 year old do it with no adult assistance!

I HAVE to be more of a player with the bigger engines and I won't stand for them to be assembled in anything less than 100% complete status due to the impacts that parts selection has on their performance.

When a customer buys a kit from me 2270cc or larger I mandate certain parts to be used to attain the primary objective of the baseline engine I created the kit from- it's called being comprehensive.

The biggest nightmare for me (and Mark) would be an individual that gets a 2316 engine as a longblock from Mark based on my kit and installs restrictive exhaust, huge carbs and screws the tuning up. This engine will more than likely be absolutely un-tunable, run like shit and run hot while getting about 10 MPG. This person would then mis-inform pople that this was a "Raby engine" when it was not and I would catch flack.

attaining my reputation was not easy and retaining it is even more difficult. I have to take every step known to man to hold individuals hands through kit processes to keep negative things from happening like this.

Now, with the mandate of 2270 and 2316cc engines being built complete by Mark it will throw them right into the same category as my engines in the cost department- so you may as well buy it from me and get the added benefits.
there is much more to this than you guys see on the outside, and it's not as easy as "Making it simple and cheap for the buyer".

If it was about simple and cheap I'd be building nothing but longblocks, doing 4X as many engines per year and not giving a damn about them when they left.
Thats not the case.

Posted by: Grimstead Mar 5 2006, 10:14 PM

Time for the $5K

I just put my name on the dotted line. Now I just need to finish everything and make sure the car is ready when Mark is done with his magic.

Thanks Mark!

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 5 2006, 10:26 PM

Posted by: MikeP Mar 6 2006, 10:46 AM

Looks like a great mid range power option. Just for the record, and believe me I found out the hard way, there is nothing "cheap" about a V8 / V6 option. I've only heard of one person that got it done for the cost of the kit being offered, and that isn't counting dollar one for labor which is SUBSTANTIALLY more than this option.

Posted by: timmcgraw67 May 9 2006, 01:36 PM

I'm willing to open my wallet if you are willing to take payments. LOL. After all I'm 19 w/ more bills than the average person ehhhhh that's and understatement at that.

Posted by: McMark May 9 2006, 06:13 PM

Depends on the size of the payments. PM me.

Posted by: KaptKaos May 16 2006, 10:13 PM

Mark,

I have a few questions:

Will the 2056 use the next gen heads from Jake? If so, what do those do to the output? If not, what heads do you use?

Does the engine or kit come with new tin? If not, can stock 1.7 tin be used or modified? If not, what is the cost of replacement tin?

I bought some weber 44s from a member. Can those be used with the 2056? If so, what jets, etc.. are needed? If not, what are the alternatives?

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

- Joe

Posted by: McMark May 16 2006, 10:23 PM

I rebuild the heads you send me. I'm talking with Jake to see about offering the new heads. I can already see why he's not rebuilding heads anymore. It's a PITA to do right and a ton of work. 1.8 heads will work fine, 2.0 heads will work fine, either one is rebuilt, welded if necessary, and all new parts put in.



These engines are only a long block. So I build the engine, but nothing is bolted to it. So tin is not included. 1.7 tin is necessary if you send 1.7, 1.8 or bus 2.0 heads. 2.0 tin is necessary if you go with 914 2.0 heads. 1.7 tin can be modified, but you pay me my standard shop rate for the work. Replacement tin would need to be sourced by you. The only tin pieces I need from you are the ones that go under the heads. Those must be installed before the pushrods and can't be installed once everything is buttoned up.



I have all the jetting information for carburetors. 44s will work fine (I previously thought that 44s were a little large, but have since been corrected).

Posted by: KaptKaos May 16 2006, 10:52 PM

Thanks for the response Mark. I have a few follow up questions:

From the article in Hot VWs and talking to Jake, it seems that the new heads are the way to go. From what Jake said, price wise, its a better deal for the new heads as the costs to fix old ones is about the same as the new ones, assuming you needed to buy new heads. If this is the case, then how does the performance of the 2056 change with the new heads? How different, if any, is the cost?


New question:

What parts are needed from a 1.7 or 1.8 motor for the 2056? I think I have read that the 1.7 rockers are used, but what else?

Thanks for answering these questions, I am a few months from being in a position to order a motor, but we'll see how this year goes.

Thanks again,
Joe

Posted by: Grimstead May 17 2006, 07:23 PM

Hi Joe,
Just as an FYI, I will have my 5k engine running by then & you can check it out if you want (I’ve already had a few people down here ask to see it when ready). If everything goes how I’m hoping, I expect this engine to fit my needs perfectly.

As for the extra/core parts you’ll need, when all is said and done I can point you in the right direction if you are interested (learning from my trial & error).

Bill

Posted by: KaptKaos May 17 2006, 08:52 PM

Thanks Bill. I will certainly take you up on that offer.

Posted by: McMark May 19 2006, 04:08 AM

The new heads are definitely an option. I still need to get exact pricing, but I think the engine with new heads would be around $6000. The heads at this price point are basically 914 2.0 head replicas. So I expect power would be about the same, maybe a small gain. I haven't gotten numbers from Jake yet, so I don't know for sure.

I've learned as I've built this first batch of motors that aside from the cores listed in the first post of this thread (check that out) I need the following items to be reused on your motor.
__ Case
__ Taco Plate + O-Ring
__ Oil Filter Console
__ Oil Bypass Springs/Pistons
__ Drain Plug
__ Distributor Drive Gear + Special Washer
__ Under Cylinder Engine Tin
__ Oil Cooler
__ Oil Cooler Thick Washers
__ Fan Mount + Bolts
__ Oil Baffle + Seals (OPTIONAL)
__ Oil Pressure Switch OR Pressure Sender
__ Oil Filler + Bail
__ Head Nuts + Washers
__ Through Bolts
__ Oil Pickup
__ Sump Cover
__ Endplay Shims
__ Distributor Clamp
__ Valve Covers + Bails
__ Rocker Shafts
__ Rocker Shaft Mounts

This has been a huge endeavor for me and has taken awhile to get figured out. As future orders come in, things will get much more smooth. My first customers have been very patient and I thank them immensely.

Posted by: Bezerker420 May 21 2006, 01:04 PM

I'm with the donkey...

People either have their sweet little engine, or still pipe dreamin' about it....
The "volume" will come with time, not everyone is buying engines every weekend....



But, Napa huh? Valley or City? Your only like 4.5 hours south of me!

If one would to come down there with a wad of cash for that motor, what could I get outta there for total? I wouldnt have a core for yah, as my stock 1.7L FI is running just fine and is still installed. I could get it back to you in a week or so, or just sell a perfectly running 1.7FI, [just got a sweet tune up like 6 weeks ago compression is only low by 5 on ONE cylinder!!]

I also need a new tranny, mines a tail now, wanna switch out for a sideshift, If you can assist in this procurement at the same time would be incredible...

You can PM me If you like...

-B

Posted by: McMark May 21 2006, 01:14 PM

I'm in the city of Napa.

It takes a fair amount of time from the time the order is placed until the time it is ready for delivery. I assume you're talking about a 2056. The longblock price is $5000, the core charge is $750, it sounds like you want either FI or Carbs as well and it's $1000 either way. A distributor is gonna run $350 Exhaust you'll have to find on your own, SSIs are good and I like the Triad muffler. So all of that comes to $7150.

I don't have any trannys that I can sell you. I would recommend finding a good used one.

Posted by: xlchspor Jul 4 2006, 10:00 PM

For Christs Sakes man give it some time! your offering a hell of a good deal but your also offering a motor for more than what most people have paid for thier cars.

Posted by: Qball Jul 9 2006, 10:59 AM

McMark,
sent you a PM

Posted by: Qball Jul 10 2006, 05:54 PM

Mark,
Good talking to you today and very happy we can do business

2056 here I come

Posted by: Ctrout Jul 13 2006, 11:30 PM

So it's been said that a 2270 from Mark would likely be very close in price as one that was built by Jake himself. What kind of price are we talkin' for a 2270 "Performer" longblock? $7000 delivered with no core charges? $11,000 delivered with an additional $1200 in core charges? Can anyone throw out a ballpark figure?

Posted by: McMark Jul 13 2006, 11:46 PM

The kit prices are not up right now. I expect it would run around $10k, but I'll repost once I get a kit price from Jake.

Posted by: patrick3000 Aug 8 2006, 01:56 PM

Jake and Mark,

Thanks for putting this deal together it is a good opportunity for anyone that does not wish to build their own engine.

Regards,

Karl

Posted by: McMark Nov 1 2006, 08:06 PM

Pictures of the rebuild heads.

* Cracks are repaired
* New Seats
* New Valves
* New Guides
* 12 mm Spark Plug Modification
* Exhaust Seal Surface is trued to reduce exhaust leaks
* New Exhaust Studs
* New Intake Studs
* New Valve Springs
* New Spring Retainers
* New Rocker Studs
* Sealing Surface is trued


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 1 2006, 10:12 PM

Mark, maybe I missed it earlier in this thread, but are you having the heads done by Len or someone in Norcal?
How much $$$ to do a complete job like this on a 2.0L head? Or pair?

those look fantastic.

Thanks
Dan

Posted by: McMark Nov 1 2006, 10:23 PM

Dan, these are being send to Adrian at Headflow Masters in Vista, CA (SoCal). Adrian has less of a wait time and his work is perfect for these engines. I can't give an accurate cost on the heads because the parts come from Jake and are part of the kit, so I don't know how much they cost separate. The condition of your existing heads is also a huge factor. I would say, budget $800 for a pair and you should be safe.

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 1 2006, 10:38 PM

Thanks...that is what I needed to know.
Once I pull my motor out and apart in the next few weeks, I will check the heads and see if it is worth repairing/rebuilding my old heads or pop for some new LE180s.
Do you have any contact information for Headflow Masters?

Thanks again

Posted by: McMark Nov 2 2006, 12:34 AM

Here's the info for Headflow Masters.

(888) 340-8979
2466 South Santa Fe #f
Vista CA 92084

Posted by: Lavanaut Nov 3 2006, 02:20 PM

I've been following this thread since I first joined. As I've come to learn more about the costs involved in doing different engine upgrades, this offer is looking more and more attractive. Mark, I'm assuming you've got satisfied customers on the road by now...what's the feedback been like?

Anyone out there with one of these engines care to break it down for the rest of us?

Posted by: McMark Nov 3 2006, 03:17 PM

Actually, because of a FIASCO with the machine shop I was trying to use for the heads, these engines have been significantly delayed.

The people who stepped up already have been very patient. And I have tried to do what I can to compensate the people.

Bottom line, the first set of heads FINALLY came back to me last week and I'm doing valve train geometry on it right now. I will be hand delivering it to the customer later this month.

Heads are coming back to me every two weeks, so I will have all the backlogged engines out around the end of the year.

I have definitely had growing pains with this venture, but now they're figured out and come the first of the year, I'll have everything smooth enough to deliver an engine within 3 months of the order. And eventually I'll have kits on hand so that orders can be filled much faster. I'm looking forward to leaving these growing pains behind and moving forward.

Posted by: Lavanaut Nov 3 2006, 03:22 PM

This type of stuff is to be expected when just getting going on a venture of this magnitude. Stick with it, and I'll continue to follow your progress. Thanks for the reply.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Nov 12 2006, 08:22 PM

Heads do look good.
Does Adrian Timecert the plug holes down to 12mm, or
are they welded and tapped?

Posted by: McMark Nov 12 2006, 08:33 PM

Welded and tapped. Done the right way.

Posted by: biosurfer1 Nov 13 2006, 12:22 PM

McMark, I was looking at the picture of the rebuilt heads and thought that was an arrow towards the top of the first picture...after staring at it for a while trying to figure out what you were pointing out and thinking "fuch it, i don't get it", I finally looked at the other pictures and the next thought was "you dumbass, its a piece of wire"

it's too early to think

i'll be in contact about a motor soon, but don't want to waste your time until I have the funds and an idea of what I want, nice part is you're close enough to pick up...any chance you have a 2056 installed for a test ride?

Posted by: Grimstead Dec 12 2006, 02:35 PM

Drum roll please! Not only is my 5k engine in my car as I type but Mark even brought it down him self and helped with the install (as well as a front sway bar).

I must say, once we got it ready, the motor fired right up and was (loud) music to my ears. I can’t wait to finish the little stuff and get this car on the road once and for all!

If asked, would I do it again? Oh yes!
When it was all said and done, Mark proved to me that he is committed to making this a successful part of his business.


Thank you Mark for making this happen! (PS, Jack misses you)





Attached image(s)

Posted by: Lavanaut Jan 4 2007, 07:12 PM

Have you been able to drive her yet?!?

Posted by: rjames Jan 4 2007, 09:46 PM

Posted by: Grimstead Jan 5 2007, 10:59 AM

I think I’ve gotten about 30miles on her so far. I haven’t had much time with the holidays and all to do much work on the car. When Mark brought the engine, it was at 97% ready, I just need to play with the timing a little and fix a carb issue (both of which have nothing to do with Marks work).

I am still very happy with my decision to have this done, the engine fires up every time (doesn’t drip a drop of oil) and the few times I’ve driven her so far have been really fun. If the weather doesn’t turn to crap I’ll be driving it to Greg’s BBQ this Sunday so I should have a better review of the engine when I return.

One of my major concerns going into this was what happens if I was shipped a hand grenade and this thing blows up after my first drive around the block or if it dies two months down the road (when I signed up for this I did not know Mark at all, except from the posts I had read on the board). While I obviously haven’t had any problems with the engine so far, after getting to know Mark (and I would argue, becoming friends) I am very confident he will not leave me or any 5k customer hanging if a problem does arise.

Mark has definitely had some growing pains getting this project (head work has been his big issue) as a whole, off the ground. From what I haven seen, he is working through those issues and has brought what he can in-house and found a reliable machine shop for the rest. Personally I think this is a great option for those of us that don’t have the knowledge or time (Brian, are you reading this?) to build an engine ourselves. Could I have bought the kit straight from Jake and built it myself? Sure, with the help of my SoCal friends but I would have asked a lot of favors (more than I do now) and with my time spent I don’t think I would have saved much.

What was the question again?

Posted by: TINCAN914 Jan 6 2007, 10:25 AM

LOL!!
I'm here.. This is one avenue I am considering.. I am really interested in hearing from you after your drive tomorrow...

Posted by: Qball Jan 18 2007, 06:00 PM

Posted by: Grimstead Jan 18 2007, 08:10 PM

Sorry I haven’t updated lately. I kept planning to start a new thread in the garage but never got around to it.

I took it on her longest drive a couple of weeks ago to hang out with Slits for the day. It was only a 20min drive but I got to take the freeway. First off, I still have some stuff to tweak but Marks motor is doing great. My oil temp never made it half way on the combo gauge and my new CHT gauge was reading about 250 on the streets and maybe hit 290 on the freeway. The motor really did well on the drive and always loves to start when I want her to. I am still very conservative while driving her but when Aaron took it out for a spirited spin a while back he seamed to think it had more torque than his built 2.0. Other than a sticking throttle cable, I think he enjoyed the drive.

I still, full heartedly, think this was a great choice to make and I can’t wait to finish up the little stuff to start driving her on a daily basis

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jan 19 2007, 01:23 PM

Sweet. Go get yourself the Terry cable throttle cable; yank all the old stuff out and stuff the new one in...I was nervous at first but I've done it twice now (once on a friends 914) and no hitches either time.

The reason I say this is becase I now have AWESOME throttle RESPONSE and the problem was never my engine, it was always the sticky cable and loose cable stop.

Posted by: michaelt55 Jan 19 2007, 02:56 PM

excuse me..but whats a Terry cable? IS this a morse style?


Michael

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 19 2007, 03:09 PM

terry cable is a premium brand of cables...

Posted by: BiG bOgGs Mar 31 2007, 08:25 PM

You caught me early. I just found this post today. I have been considering my options for dealing with my 76 2.0 and you have settled the debate in my head. I will be saving my pennies, and when I have them all I will be getting a new motor from you with the Mega Squirt. I can't say exactly when it will happen, but you will be the second to know when I have the cash (the wife will have to know first).

Jim


Yippeeeeeeee, I finally have a plan!!

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Apr 2 2007, 10:11 AM

congrats Jake on a truly affordable high horsepower engine!

Posted by: Qball May 14 2007, 07:26 PM

Any updates on a running motor?

Posted by: Grimstead May 22 2007, 10:09 AM

The engine is running great, even better after we found out the range hadn't been set on the Mallory (thanks again for the help Mark). I am still fighting a exhaust leak so I haven't had much road time but that isn't a engine issue. I also put in one of those eBay mini starters and I'm really liking that as well.

Posted by: Qball May 22 2007, 11:24 AM

Good to hear, mine should be rolling in shortly

Posted by: Grimstead May 23 2007, 07:40 PM

How long does Mark think it's going to take to get to you?

If it makes you feel any better when I first signed up for the engine I didn't know Mark at all except from reading his posts. But I have to say that after the whole process was done (and it took a while as well), not only did Mark go the extra mile to get me up & running but he also became a friend . I only mention this cause in the beginning there was that little fear that I was going to get ripped off and obviously that didn't happen.

I'm sure when it is all said & done, you're going to be very happy with this combo. BTW, what exhaust setup are you going with & did you go with the Mallory?

Posted by: Qball May 24 2007, 08:06 AM

Waiting on the heads which I know have been a thorn in Mark's side. I had a good feeling about Mark and this project from day one and that's why I went with it, no regrets. Going with the Mallory and carbs. As far as exhaust I have a pair of 2.0 ssi's in the garage waiting to go. Thanks for the feedback, its good to hear.

Posted by: Lavanaut Jul 11 2007, 03:54 PM

McMark, if I were to buy a teener specifically for this engine upgrade, what would be the optimal candidate? Would your answer differ if budget wasn't a concern? (e.g. 73 2.0 w/ no budget defined, 72 1.7 with a budget, as a random example)

Thanks

Posted by: McMark Jul 11 2007, 04:22 PM

My biggest concern is usually SMOG/Emission controls. Secondly would be an early car for the bumpers (backdating costs $). Other than that I don't have much preference. 73/74 cars are going to have the most resale value because of all of the 'buyers guides' out there. People are wanting those cars somewhat blindly. When buying a car, I always look for the best chassis, looking specifically at rust damage and accident damage. I always say, build the best chassis you can (solid & straight) because everything else bolts onto that. You can easily build a nice chassis and bolt used suspension/brakes on, then replace/refresh those parts as $/time allows. If you have a nice chassis (not even finish painted, just straight and solid) and a new motor, you can EASILY have a rolling restoration.

Preference by years would be:

#1: 73/74 - The 'prime' years.
#1b: 70-72 - nothing wrong with these, but resale value may be slightly lower
#2: 75 - backdating costs, extra weight in the body
#3: 76 - backdating costs, extra weight in the body, CA smog rules

But any straight and solid car that's priced well would be a good car to build up.

Posted by: Grimstead Jul 11 2007, 06:50 PM

Big Bumper Bigot!

Posted by: McMark Jul 11 2007, 07:19 PM

I knew somebody would take offense. I'm just playing to the popularity.

Posted by: Lavanaut Jul 12 2007, 02:07 PM

Good feedback, but I was thinking more from a technical standpoint. For example, a set of 1.7 rockers has to be sourced, correct? And I believe I read that 2.0l heads make more power than 1.7/1.8?

It's more from that standpoint that I was asking. Should've included those examples in my original question, my bad.

Lava

Posted by: McMark Jul 12 2007, 02:15 PM

Ahhh, I get it now. You absolutely need a set of 8mm rockers (commonly on 1.7s, but found on others). 914 2.0 heads make the most power, but we could build off of 1.8 or bus 2.0 heads. 1.7 heads take some minor work to adapt. Finding a 2.0 engine would be the best solution because you get most of the necessary core items in one place for one price. But if you got a 1.7/1.8, sourcing the 2.0 parts necessary is not difficult.

Maybe that helps a little more.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Feb 22 2008, 05:26 PM

Posted by: silver arrow Mar 3 2008, 03:47 PM

I see this thread started several years ago. How much hp could you get out of a complete 1.7 motor retaining FI and how much are we talking?

Posted by: McMark Mar 8 2008, 04:15 PM

Do you mean how much HP keeping it a 1.7? Or turning the 1.7 into a 1911?

Posted by: scottb May 17 2008, 01:20 PM

i will post a "seat of the pants" update as soon as i get the car back from our friends at CFR.

mark was always great with communication and letting me know what was slowing things down (yep, heads). i had some issues with selling a house which added to the time but that was all my fault. mark was great to accomodate.

anyway, i hope to have an update in about a week.

cheers....

scottb

Posted by: scottb May 23 2008, 03:12 PM

check out my thread in the garage.....

this engine is great!!!!!

BUY ONE!!!!

you know you want it.... your wife will forgive you in time... mine did.

Posted by: bembry Sep 9 2008, 02:23 PM

Whoo Hoo! I'm going for it!

My car has been sitting around dead for way too long.

Posted by: alex914 Oct 29 2008, 07:06 PM

Mark finished putting in a variation of one of these 2056 engines in my 73. It was a special kit Jake Raby put together that had different heads. The car hasn't been dyno'd yet so I can't give any concrete numbers. The goal was 140+hp. The engine has transformed my once tame car into something pretty fierce.
The engine develops lots of torque and it's easy to break the back end loose around corners now.
I splurged and bought a Tangerine header so the 914 sounds a bit like a race car at full throttle.

Mark is a true enthusiast and a thoughtful engine builder. I can't recommend this motor enough!

Posted by: scottb May 11 2009, 02:07 PM

a bump and an update. had a lean situation on the 3rd cylinder carb throat that caused a backfire. chased a bunch of dead ends before figuring that out. got that done in the late fall and have had the car out a number of times this spring. total of about 2k miles on the engine and it runs like a champ. the temp on the stock guage never gets past 1/4 even in hot stop and go traffic. i have early tangerine style headers and a non-stock muffler so should be around 140 hp per the literature.

this thing is a blast. i am fortunate to also have an evil built transaxle along with a j-west fully modded shift linkage so my drive train is very solid and sound. i have nothing but praise for the motor, trans and linkage. along with the work from the good folks at CFR in manchester CT.

buy one of these engines. you will not regret it.

if you are in the northeast and considering one of these engines, send me a message an i would be happy to let you take the car out for a spin.

cheers,

scott

Posted by: ConeDodger May 18 2009, 01:00 AM

And he has a big brain!

Posted by: Cevan May 21 2009, 03:10 PM

Hey Scott, I put a 2.0 in my car this past winter to replace the 1.8 and I'm happy with the modest increase in power. When the 2.0 eventually needs a rebuild, I'll probably build a Raby kit. I'd love to go for a spin in the mean time.

Chris

Posted by: JazonJJordan Jul 25 2009, 08:25 AM

$41/month to $83/month to have a 50% more powerful-cooler engine.
Cost shared over life of the engine five or ten years. Getting to drive it (fast!) 8,000 to 10,000 miles a year as a daily (fun) driver.
Gad, it would save $83 a month on wear and tear on my regular car every other month anyway. Miles I don't put on my new car. 4,000 miles a year vs. 12,000.
It adds up with a newer car at resale time. And maintance time. And repair time.

Heck, its' your duty to your wife and family to save them this cost and buy a 2056 engine.
Its' the right thing to do...$10 dollars a week has never been so fun...
?what excuses?

Posted by: JazonJJordan Jul 25 2009, 08:30 AM

I will be in line shorty. Skipping $10 lunch at work and $50 a week closer. + extra (work) shifts. Now saved $3100...Thanks for the great work! jzn

Posted by: scottb Aug 15 2009, 02:54 PM

went for a tear today and am still very happy with the motor. pulls like a fiend well past 6k. with dual webers and a header, sounds awesome with a very even acceleration. i remain a very happy customer.

cheers....

scott

Posted by: 914rat Nov 2 2011, 10:13 AM

So the 125 hp motor with a Tangerene Header produces 140+ hp?

Posted by: McMark Nov 2 2011, 11:09 AM

Somewhere in that range, with the high end HP cam and the tangerine headers. But that cam does have a bit of a 'lumpy' idle, so a lot of the 2056s get a cam that gives up a little top end HP in favor of better low speed drivability.

And it necessary to note that the HP estimations are just that, estimates. I'm not selling a HP number, and no HP number is guaranteed.

Posted by: 914rat Nov 2 2011, 12:08 PM

I understand that a longblock engine only has horespower potential up to a certain point.The true power has to be tuned in by the final installer.I just wanted to clarify in my own understanding of how these engines get power and the potential of their state of tune under the best circumstances, build quality with professional labor using quality parts that work as a combo,proven ignition,proven induction,and proven exhaust.Then final tune on a dyno to optimize the system to verify results.

So the potential of the $5000 engine is 0-143.75 based on the Tangerine adding 15% more power.Under the scrutiny of ignition,induction, exhaust, and final tuning.

I never really got the full potential of a 2056 until now.
That is friggin awesome.

I might be able to get 100 HP with my tuning abilities.

Posted by: McMark Nov 2 2011, 03:17 PM

Additionally, every set of heads is slightly different and compression ratio varies from engine to engine, as well as the slight differences between intake/exhaust port flow. So two engines with the same setup on paper can perform differently when they're actually built.

Posted by: Gint Aug 4 2014, 08:44 PM

Hey Mark! If this build is what we talked about today, then I don't have any other expectations. Can't wait. I've got a set of ACE built 40 IDFs, and a Mallory lookin for a new home. I'll pm some questions about core, etc... and

Posted by: benine Aug 11 2014, 10:13 AM

Mark, I was wondering what the fuel requirements would be for the 2056 specifically and others you commonly build. Does the high ethanol content of fuel today have any effects on these cars carbed or FI.

Posted by: ovation919 Jul 25 2015, 09:53 AM

Are these engines still available. Very interesting.

Posted by: mepstein Jul 25 2015, 10:55 AM

10 year old thread

Posted by: McMark Jul 25 2015, 11:22 AM

Yes they are.

Posted by: JmuRiz Jul 25 2015, 07:26 PM

If I were smart, I'd have gone that route and be driving my car by now

Still in the $5k range?...if so, if would be a miracle.

Posted by: McMark Jul 25 2015, 07:56 PM

They were at $5500, but I need to look at all the costs again and reassess the whole situation. I don't foresee a huge change though.

Posted by: ovation919 Mar 8 2016, 05:12 PM

I am definitely interested then. Should I PM you to follow up?
thanks

Posted by: Mblizzard Mar 8 2016, 06:35 PM

Mark did a custom version of a 2056 for me and I would highly recommend his work. Despite my best efforts to kill the engine by dropping bolts in the intake it has been flawless. Every dollar you pay McMark now will save you many dollars in the future!

Yes I really did lose a bolt in the engine! Yep those are the threads pressed into the head!

Posted by: 2mAn May 17 2016, 05:23 PM

any update on this? dont tell me its a 10 year old thread!

Posted by: McMark May 17 2016, 05:37 PM

Getting ready to start building 4 engines in the next couple weeks. Want in?

Posted by: ConeDodger May 17 2016, 10:17 PM

Highly recommended! I've built two of my engines along side Mark and with is assistance. The 2056 and 2170 are two very reliable engines. Especially the 2056. Satisfying power and reliability and driveability. Go with Mark!

Posted by: billh1963 May 18 2016, 05:54 AM

I sent a PM back in March...please let me know.

Thanks

Posted by: JmuRiz May 18 2016, 07:53 AM

Really should have bought one long ago, if I had a 2nd car not undergoing a /6 conversion I'd buy one for sure!! Best $/hp value out there.

Posted by: 2mAn May 18 2016, 08:57 AM

Around how much power do these make?

Posted by: db9146 May 18 2016, 10:02 AM

If I have a good stock '74 2.0L now, will I be able to get back the same engine to maintain numbers matching?

Posted by: McMark May 18 2016, 10:52 AM

Depends on a few options, but somewhere in the 100-125hp range. But it's not so much about the numbers. Especially because the torque is what makes these motors great. WAY less shifting when driving around town, no more downshifting for every corner.

Posted by: McMark May 18 2016, 10:54 AM

Absolutely. I keep track of all components to make sure they stay with the motor they came with.

Posted by: capitolatim Jun 22 2016, 05:55 PM

Hi,

I have a 2.4/4 that ran strong but leaked oil. We have the engine a part. One barrel is bad, needs a new cam and cam gears, heads are great and opened up. Case is good and done right.

Exchange possible?

Weird one, eh?

Cheers
Tim

Posted by: Gplracer Sep 8 2019, 12:03 PM

I know this post is really old. MCMark are you still doing this? I am about to get a 1973 1.7L that is the exact car I grew up with. We sold it with a tired engine with about 80,000 miles on it in 1986. It was put on a concrete slab with a roof over it and a cover. Nothing was ever done to the car so now I am buying it back.