Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 09:06 PM

<edit update>
For the ADHD crowd & reading challenged & the just impatient....

The `73 MY's "914S" is a "Trim Designation" or "Trim Package" - the same as was the "914 LE" in the `74 MY.

It was official by Porsche & Porsche+Audi/Volkswagen of America for North America, & likewise for th Porsche distributors of the "914S/914SL" in Japan & "914SC" in the UK.

However, in the case of North America, Porsche Germany made Porsche+Audi/VoA drop the "914S" designation after running the program for over a year - from early -1972 in the pre-release campaign - through about March 1973 - apparently after pressure from the 911 crowd at PCA objecting to it confusing them over their911S's.

Period!



See my Post #205 on page 11 for more details - or just read on below & through the ensuing facts, then debate by the naysayers.

<edit>
CLIFF NOTES VERSION:
- for those not interested in looking at cool old 914 stuff from back in the day"!

1. Porsche+Audi marketed the 914/4 2.0 "fully loaded" as the "914 S" in ads & sales brochures from Summer 1972 to about Jan/Feb 1973, then Porsche made them stop.

2. The British Distributor similarly marketed the 914/4 2.0 from Summer 1972 through 1976 as the 914SC, but was never told to stop.

3. Neither was ever badged as either a 914S or 914SC.

4. If one is interested, read the stuff posted here from that 1970's period.
<end edit>

There has been talk from time to time on here & elsewhere, about whether there ever really was a "914 S" &/or "914 SC"?
- especially amongst those of us with USA 1973 MY 914-2.0's from the first half of the 73 MY production!

Well - as many things 914 - the answer is an unequivocal "Yes & No"!

I can answer more definitively regarding the "914 S" in the USA & Canada/North America, since I researched that recently to better plan for the restoration of my early-73 914-2.0. However, I was already well aware of the "914 S" terminology back in 1975 & it's having been dropped unceremoniously at PAG's insistance during early 1973, because I'd reviewed MT & R&T road test articles on the "914 S"/914-2.0 which bracketed the change & made mention of PAG's forcing it to be dropped while researching the purchase used (3 yrs. old) of my one & only 914-2.0 which I bought in Dec. 75 & still own (2nd owner).

I also had 3+ years before that, gotten a "free" copy of the 12 page early 1973 MY 914 sales brochure from the Downtown LA Porsche+Audi dealership, from a classmate whose parents eventually bought him one for his graduation (oh to be so lucky! ). In it, it referred to the "914 S", as shown in the pix on the following posts here of the similar current brochure which I had to buy last year, having misplaced the other!

But we will have to ask that some of our Brit Teeners out there (both of you! - just kidding! ) to add in regarding your "914 SC".
- Yes, the Brits had "something completely different," as in the Monty Python bits!

First - "No" - 914's were never officially badged as either a "914 S" nor "914 SC" by either the Porsche+Audi US/Canada nor the British Isles distributors, and definitely NOT EVER by the factory.

North American 914s with the GA 2.0 motor were badged with the familiar separate "914" & "2.0" badges on the right rear body panel above the rear bumper & to the left of the right taillight.

Whereas the rest of the world's 2L's with the GB engine were badged with the familiar long "914-*-Porsche" between the rear trunk lock/button & right taillight (where "*" is the VW roundel Logo), with the 2.0" badge below that & aligned with the first long badge next to the right taillight.

USA/Canada - Porsche+Audi 914 2.0 Badging:


.

Rest of the World's 914 2.0 Badging:


.

<edit>
For many, this above is enough to know & take/keep the position on "no" - but it is NOT the whole story, much of which is not known today unless you were around then. If you're in the no camp, your point is taken & no need to torture yourself by reading on - unless you want to add some other documentation/pix from the period which relate to this subject - then please do so.

However, this post isn't here for a debate - although it seems that we have a lot of "master debaters" logging in here with a burning desire to prove someone - anyone - wrong. Even to the point of agreeing with me then saying I'm wrong, and one re-posting information which I'd already posted in an effort to prove me wrong!

I'm just presenting some factual documentation here on what the "914S" thing was all about - so others will know that there is some basis to it, even if it was not a "real" 914 model nor badge name. I have also thrown in some of my own thoughts, speculation & opinions, which I hope are clear from the way I've stated things (IMO, IMHO, I speculate or suspect or estimate that ... , etc.) that they are just that - which is not to claim that they are "facts".

As you can tell by my edits here, I'm getting a bit frustrated with the "master debaters," conspiracy police, & those who consider "914S talk" as heresy - but it did exist - to a point, as the following explains & provides period documentation to back it up. To the point - it is an indisputable fact that Porsche+Audi in the USA & Canada marketed the then new 914/4 2.0L model as the "914S" from Summer 1972 through about December 1972 or January/February 1973 -period!
<end edit>

.

Today, one of our member vendors here - RJMII - makes custom aluminum badges in a "914 S" design, and could customize anything else - including "914 SC" - should someone want one for display purposes or fun in a temporary attachment/placement. However, IMHO I would not recommend placing one in the rear badging position, because you'd have to weld/braise/putty to fill in the mounting stud holes, which is NOT a good idea nor an acceptable "Originality" approach.

.

.

Second - "Yes" - The Porsche+Audi US/Canada distributor did in fact initially market the "new for the 1973 model year" (MY) 914/4 with the GA 2.0 engine as the "914 S" from mid-72 through early 1973.

While the British Isles distributor marketed their GB engined 2.0's as the "914 SC" from mid-72 through the end of the 914's run in 1976.

Oddly - according to both the period articles in the left book below & commentary by the second book's author - Porsche never asked them to drop the "SC" nomenclature - even after the "911 SC" was introduced later. Whereas their almost immediate objection to the US Porsche+Audi arm using the "914 S" in marketing, what that they were concerned that it may confuse the public with the 911S & detract for that far more expensive car's sales (more than 2x the 914-2.0' price in 73 MY).

A fair amount of factual back up for both of these "914 S" & "914 SC" marketing programs can be found in the 2 books whose covers are pictured below - both of which are still currently available in print from numerous sources - so I won't duplicate that information here.



.

.

Additionally, Porsche+Audi printed both 4 page & 12 page 914 full color sales brochures for the US & Canadian dealerships, both of which clearly & unequivocally referred to the "914 S" - not a "914 2.0" at that point in time (although the terminology was eventually changed to "914 2.0" by the 74 MY as seen later).

Front & Rear Covers of 4 page Porsche+Audi 914 Sales Brochure referring to "914 S":


.

... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 09:14 PM

... continued from previous post ...

Inner Pages 2 & 3 of 4 page Porsche+Audi 914 Sales Brochure referring to "914 S":


.

.

Front Cover & following pages in order of 12 page Porsche+Audi 914 Sales Brochure referring to "914 S":

...

.

... continued ....

Posted by: URY914 Jun 3 2010, 09:16 PM

Explain this.....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 09:21 PM

... continued from previous post ....

... continued ... Front Cover & following pages in order of 12 page Porsche+Audi 914 Sales Brochure referring to "914 S":


.

... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 09:27 PM

Sorry - NARB on a NARP.

It's a made-up badge - my guess being the "-S" from a 911-S badge is attached/welded to a "914" (as I was going to try myself just for fun) - given the wide spacing & out-of-alignment from the 914 to the S on it.

Anyone can make anything up like that, but RJMII's at least look like they're correctly made badges!
http://www.vintagetransrebuilds.com/transrebuilds/Products/7-machined-aluminum-914s-emblem.aspx

... he also makes metal NARP badges too, but that doesn't mean that they were ever badged that way from the dealers or factory!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 11:09 PM

Back to the documentation, after that sidetrack ...

... continued from previous post ....

... continued ... Back Cover of 12 page Porsche+Audi 914 Sales Brochure referring to "914 S":


.

.

Then - amongst the familiar "The __[blank]__ Porsche" series of print ads, there were the early 1973 MY ads during the second half of 1972 which touted the "914 S" as "The Super Porsche" was in the first one below (in both color & B&W). This was later changed to tout the "914 2.0" by the 1974 MY ads in the second ad, but oddly it was just reformatted with the text from bottom to top & still used of what appears to be the very same 1973 MY 914 photo - note the 70-73 MY positive side stripes, rather than the 74-76 MY negative side stripes as in the 3rd pic (from the 74 MY brochures).

Pix of Print Ads for 914S, 914-2.0 & 74 MY 914 with Negative Side Stripes:


.

.

Whereas, later 73 MY Print ads only referred to the 2.0L engine - rather than either the earlier "914 S" or later "914 2.0" nomenclature, as in "The Action Porsche" & "The City Porsche" print ads below.

"The Action Porsche" & "The City Porsche" print ads with reference only to 2.0L engine:


.

.

So the use of the "914 S" nomenclature was pretty prevalent from the introduction of the 1973 models - including the "new" 2 Liter 4 cylinder model meant to replace the now discontinued 914-6. Most Teeners know that the 2L 4 turned out more power than the 1.7L denoting the "Super" for the "S" - 95 hp with the GA motor - which is sometimes listed as 91 hp - depending upon whether DIN or SAE numbers were used (vs. 100 hp from the higher compression "non-California-smog/unleaded gas" Euro/World GB motor - which had 8.0:1 vs. 7.6:1 in the GA).

But what made it "Special" as well?
... Well, for the initial 73 MY only the 2 Liter model by either name came "loaded" with the Appearance Group's & Performance Group's list of options at no additional charge - usually listed as "N/C" on the window stickers - ostensibly to help offset the perceived loss of value of dropping the 914-6 from the line-up, with the 914S/914-2.0 at essentially the same price as the 71 914-6.

These "included options" or "upgrades" included:

> Appearance Group Optional Equipment (comparable to Euro "Comfort Group") -
..... Chrome Front & Rear Bumpers
..... Fog/Driving Lights with Chrome (plastic) Grills in the Front Bumper
..... Black Vinyl Leatherette Covering with Chrome Trim (polished anodized aluminum in fact) at the rollbar/sail panels
..... Black Vinyl Leatherette Covered Center Console with 3 Gauges - Clock ("Kienzle" type), Oil Temperature Gauge ("wide red band" type), & voltmeter (same type 73-76)
......... ~ see here for gauge & other MY fitment info.: http://www.p914.com/p914_gauges_console.htm
..... Leather covered steering wheel (later 74-76 MY's switched to Vinyl Leatherette)
..... Leather Shifter Boot
..... Loop Pile Carpet (sometimes called "Velour" in the ads, etc.)

> Performance Group Optional Equipment (comparable to Euro "Sport Group") -
..... Front & Rear Anti-sway Stabilization Bars ("Sway Bars" for short - 16 mm front & 15 mm rear)
..... 5.5J x 15 Lightweight Forged Alloy Wheels - now commonly referred to as "Fuchs 2 Liter Alloys"* - with ...
..... 165HR15 Sport or Performance Tires, ofter Dunlop SP57 tires, as well as other tires from Michelin, Continental & Semperit
.......... (the 1.7's had 165SR15 size on "standard" 5.5J x 15 steel wheels - both usually are considered /80 ~ 165/80R15 in HR or SR)

* Note that most 914-2.0's from the "914 S" era were subject to the "BO Recall Campaign" released in Dec. 1972, which required that the dealers check that the Alloy Wheels were in fact of the part number ending in -01 with the machined inset around the center hole to receive the "new for 73 MY" self-centering lip around the front wheel "hub-centric hubs" - as opposed to some early -00 part nos. produced with a flat backed hub seat to fit earlier 914s as either an option or flat-out mistake by PAG &/or Fuchs.

More information on this recall - as well as the HO Recall for the battery & engine bay fuel lines applicable to all 914's - can be found at the link below of all recalls for the 914 series (the blue links in the chart link to pix of the actual factory & VWoA letters & instructions to the dealers, which Jeff Bowlsby has been kind enough to collect for us all, along with the rest of the excellent 914 info. there). PCNA is still obligated to perform any NHTSA required safety recalls - even at this late date - so long as it has never been performed on a particular car, so call the PCNA Customer Care 800# with your VIN & inquire.
http://www.bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Recalls.htm

.

Black & White Ad as above for the "914 S", with a detail of the text showing the "Extra Equipment" included in the 73 MY 2L's base price:


.

... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 11:15 PM

... continued ....

More legible detail pix from Hi-Rez pix of my 12 page Early-73 914 Sales Brochure, with the "included" Optional Equipment on the 914S:


.

... better pic of back cover comparative Specifications at next post ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 11:17 PM

... continued ....

More legible detail pix from Hi-Rez pix of my 12 page Early-73 914 Sales Brochure, with the "included" Optional Equipment on the 914S:


.

... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 11:37 PM

... continued ....

So when did the "914 S" terminology get dropped?
... I'd estimate that "word came down from on high" at Porsche/PAG to their USA marketing arm of Porsche+Audi sometime around December 1972 or January 1973, judging from the consecutive months' Jan.`73 "Motor Trend" and Feb. `73 "Road & Track" Road Test articles covering the "new for 73 MY" 914 with the new 2.0L Flat 4 Engine by either name - and assuming that the actual tests and article writing occurred in the month prior to the official dates on these magazines, as well as the publication/release date typically being late in the month before the date on any magazine.

Article text excerpts on the change from "914S" between the Jan. 73 MT on the 914S & Feb. 73 R&T on the "914/2":



... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 11:41 PM

... continued ....

... continued 1/73 MT .... Article text excerpts on the change from "914S" between the Jan. 73 MT on the 914S & Feb. 73 R&T on the "914/2":


... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 3 2010, 11:45 PM

... continued ....

... continued 2/73 R&T .... Article text excerpts on the change from "914S" between the Jan. 73 MT on the 914S & Feb. 73 R&T on the "914/2":



... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 4 2010, 12:04 AM

... continued ....

... continued 2/73 R&T .... Article text excerpts on the change from "914S" between the Jan. 73 MT on the 914S & Feb. 73 R&T on the "914/2":



.

.

So from this, I suppose we could refer to all 1973 MY 914's with the factory 2.0L GA engine as the "914 S" - so long as they were originally sold here in the USA during "The Super Porsche - 914S" marketing campaign between the opening of the 73 MY sales around August 72 through at least December 72, and possibly as late as Feb. 73 - and possibly Canada as well, assuming that Porsche+Audi used the same marketing campaign there, which I believe they did.

However, I'm sure other owners of the 914-2.0 model may want to call theirs a 914S too - so whatever one chooses - at least you now know the story behind the mythical or legendary - or both - "914 S"!

So how about some others adding info on the Brit's "914 SC" now?

Posted by: zymurgist Jun 4 2010, 05:34 AM

914-6 badge + a Dremel?

Posted by: ME733 Jun 4 2010, 06:44 AM

.................Is that emblem one piece, and factory made, or did you make it yourself?........

Posted by: ME733 Jun 4 2010, 07:15 AM

I purchased my 914-S about two years ago.....This was a california dealer sold car, I am the third owner.(89101 original miles).a no rust survivor,previous owners took care of this car...previous owners all claimed that it was purchased as a 914-S....I made a list of options on the car as follows...1).leather boot around shifter,2)adjustable passenger seat,3)drivers side mirror,4)leather covered steering wheel,5) ugraded radio,6) fuchs (and mahle wheels)..7).front and rear sway bars...8),2.o engine,9)center console, guages, and storage compartment(under tray).10).arm rests with storage,11) tinted windows,12)fog lights,13)aluminum door sills,14)loop pile carpet,15)..chrome bumpers,16 dealer installed rubberised undercoating.....I wonder how many more options i should look for ...other than a rear window defroster this car has all options I know about.....so far....I look forward to hearing from other 914-S owners and specifics of their car.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 4 2010, 08:38 AM

Not mine. I just found the picture.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 4 2010, 11:19 AM

That may be it Murry - since it has the "dash" in there & an odd offset to the connecting bar at the upper-left loop of the "S" - as seen in the enhanced view of it below - vs. - RMJII's design without the dash in the pic below that, which is closer to the way they printed it as "914S" or more ofter as "914 S" on the ads & brochures which I'd posted above.





.

I'm considering eventually getting a set of the dual logo Lloyd plush floor mats in dark tan/saddle color for daily use, with "PORSCHE" in black or dark gray, over the red or maroon "914-S" - by having the "6" in 914-6 embroidery modified to read "914 S". I'll also get one of RMJII's "914 S" badges & set it up to temporarily hook it over somewhere on the interior or exterior for fun - all just rock the boat & please me, being the kurr dawg I am!

However - all you CW's settle down, cuz I'd pull those out & use Coco mats in tan dot on black for CdE events, like Steve G. has in his Sahara Beige 73 914-2.0 in the O&H "The few, the rare...." nailed topic.

Where are the Brits!!??

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 4 2010, 12:46 PM

Hey Murry Thanx!

Were these from your 914's window sticker, dealer sales invoice/bill of sale, COA or ??

Just to clarify for others reading this on the options on yours that you mentioned above, this is what I've found regarding them in my research on options, although often they'd list certain "features" as "N/C" on the window stickers along with true "options" -

1).leather boot around shifter, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
2)adjustable passenger seat, <Std. on all 914s 72-76 MY>
3)drivers side mirror, <Std. on all 914s 70-76 MY, Passenger side mirror was an available Option & maybe Std. in some Euro Country(s)>
4)leather covered steering wheel, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
5) upgraded radio, <Available Dealer Option for various radios @ all years & models, although factory did offer a "radio ready option" of antenna & speakers>
6) fuchs (and mahle wheels), <Perf. Grp. & Std. on 914S - the Mahles were "extra goodies" that you got with your 914 IIRC>
7).front and rear sway bars, <Perf. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
8),2.o engine, <Baseline for "914 S"/"914 2.0" model, but never an upgradable option on a 1.7 or 1.8 914 - it was either 1.7/1.8 or 2.0 model & engine>
9)center console, guages, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
10? ... and storage compartment(under tray).10).arm rests with storage, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S - I think you meant these 2 together with storage tray being under the flip-up hinged center cushion?>
11) tinted windows, <Available Option @ all years & models, as either tinted windshield or "Tinted Glass All Around" - which was both the windshield & side windows (wings & roll-ups) all tinted - always with safety glass in USA & never were the rear windows tinted, since they were shaded by the rollbar & sails anyway>
12)fog lights, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
13)aluminum door sills, <Std. on all 914s 70-73 MY, later switched to black plastic ones for late-73 & 74-76 MYs>
14)loop pile carpet, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
15)..chrome bumpers, <App. Grp. & Std. on 914S>
16 dealer installed rubberised undercoating <Available Option @ all years & models from factory or by dealers - mine also has dealer undercoating>

Another option which should be found on most or all USA 914s, is the "USA Equipment" on the COA &/or window sticker/Dealer B.O.S. - which included the US-DOT approved/required items, such as:
> laminated safety glass windshield (clear or tinted),
> 3-point safety belts appropriate to the MY (retractable starting in 72 or 73 MY)
> smog equipment & engine(s) as appropriate to the specific MY,
.... (IIRC - 69-72 basic smog controls, 73 decreased CO limits & added unleaded gas only 73-76, 74-76 further decreased CO limits, 75-76 added catalytic converter & air pump - each step reducing the hp output of the respective MY's engines)
> impact resistant bumpers appropriate to the MYs
.... (73 = Front 3 mph Bumper Guards ["Tits"], 74 = F & R "Tits", 75-76 = 5 mph "big bumpers" - & 75-76 with extra smaller "tits" required in CA for sure & MD too IIRC),
> Side-impact beams in doors starting after early production 73 MY

However, for ease of production & distribution/redirection, many of these ended up on all 914's worldwide, such as the "big bumpers", 3-point seat belts & side impact beams in the doors.

Additionally, all California 914s should also indicate on the window sticker &/or Dealer BOS/Invoice - a $15+/- "[California] Smog Test Fee", & in some MY's & on some engines/models there were 49 state & CA versions, but the 2.0's were all 50 state versions for the respective MY.

If your 914's window sticker lacks this fee but is touted as a CA car - then it's highly likely that it was NOT originally sold by a CA dealership when new, and a later smog test should show on the earliest CA DMV registration as an "imported" out-of-state vehicle (unless brought in after the smog exemption for pre-75 MY vehicles in the mid-1990's). Unfortunately, PAG's/PCNA's "Kardex" records don't indicate this, so a COA won't indicate it at all.

However, a continuous CA DMV registration chain from the date first sold/registered in CA consistent with the car's specific MY as shown on the DMV Reg. card (&/or by doing a DMV registration information request for a fee) may be another way to confirm a CA 914. Likewise, a continuous chain of service/maintenance records in CA could reasonably document a CA 914. {I had to use both types to document for PCNA that their records were in error by showing that my 73 MY 914-2.0 was supposedly first sold in Connecticut in 9/73 - more than a year after it was built in 8/72 according to my VIN sticker & chassis no. (which was not at all likely, as "hot selling" as they were then), when in fact my personal first CA DMV registration card from when I first bought it used/3 yrs. old on 12/26/75 shows that it was first sold in CA on 11/9/72!}

That's not to say that a particular 914 didn't "live" some or most of its life in CA - just that it probably was not one of the +/- 40% of all 914's which were originally sold new by Porsche+Audi dealerships located in CA.

Conversely, it's possible that some 914's so tested for CA smog compliance, were later diverted for sale in other states, or purchased here in CA & then relocated out of state later - or even immediately, esp. with the shortages of 2.0's in certain points of the production where "out-of-staters" would come here, buy a 914 & immediately drive/transport it to their own home state; & dealers could also work swaps between themselves - even interstate - as they still do today (as we did in-state for our 88 Westy to get what we equipment wanted in Dove Blue).


FYI All -
Various factory options & their factory code numbers are listed here by Jeff Bowlsby, with which you may have to "help out" the PCNA folks doing your COA, since they often misinterpret the old codes with newer ones - such as Pat Garvey's 72 914's "Norwegian Equipment", or their misreading the "#31 Beige" interior color on my 73 914S/914-2.0 as black!

Remember that at PCNA & PAG - they're human, numbers & codes have been changed by Porsche over the years, and their records are old, incomplete & sometimes in error - so sometimes their "Certificates of Authenticity" (COAs) are not all that "authentic" with regard to all of their information thereon, and you have to take time to work with them to get things corrected. Here are some sources to do so -

Options -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

Accessories -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/914Accessories.htm

Overall 914 Info which Jeff Bowlsby has collected
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/

... as well as here -
http://www.p914.com/

This info & that here at 914 Info tab above & at p914.com are some great resources for whatever you need to research on your own 914!

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 4 2010, 06:55 PM

If you want my opinion....well, you'll get it anyway.

The "S" was a Noth American MARKETING perpsective of Porsche/Audi (remember them?). Not condoned by the Factory, and eventually poo-poo'd.

Remember, only the basic format for sales brochures was provided by the Factory. The "fine points" were left to the importers, of which Porsche/Audi NA was one.

It was a marketing ploy guys. That's it!
Pat

ps: no doubt this will piss some people of, but I was there at the time. Ask me about the first 2.0 sitting in the lot in July '72, when I took delivery of my '72. Could have had the Fuchs from it fo $150.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 4 2010, 07:38 PM

........PAT, ...I disagree with your perspective on the matter......The advertising, and Information ...TOM...has collected are Porsche co. produced.....and what about the european 914SC? advertising at the same time...a little too coencidental don't you think?......I believe PORSCHE ,MAY have changed their minds, reguarding marketing..and production.....and producing a fully optioned car, for which the individual options had a higher value...than producing one with them already installed such as the 914-S....Only until the can-am cars were produced, did ALL of the similar options,( as included with the 914-S, ) Appear-reappear as it were ,(excepting the paint job).....as a complete factory optioned 914...all other 914,s, were a roll your own options, if you wanted to pay for them ....It,s very hard to find other 914,s , in other years that have similar or equal options as the 914-S...or ...can-am cars.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 4 2010, 07:44 PM

The 914-S badge on the black car is actually mounted on a early factory 914-6.

Judging from the incorrect edges on the lower portion of the S, i suspect the owner took a dremel to his 914-6 badge.

The car in question was also upgraded to a 2.2S motor, which explains the "S" quite nicely ...
Andy

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 5 2010, 05:04 AM

It may surprise you, but ...

I believe that is pretty much the case which I just presented with all of the documentation for same, in the preceding Pat. So you're not off base, it was simply put - a marketing terminology or nomenclature to call it a "914 S" in the brochures, & to "sell the sizzle, not the steak" in the advertising of it.

What I find odd is that Porsche home office was so shortsighted & two-faced about it.

Shortsighted in not seeing that the "914 S" would've probably helped them sell more 2.0's - and probably did so in the first half of the 73 model year, and maybe would've sold even better if badged as a 914 S!?

And the USA was 60%+/- of their market for all Porsches, & at least they were smart enough not to double brand them as "VW-Porsche" over here, so why not follow through with consistent model line-up naming/badging between the 911 & 914 series!? I mean, who cannot tell the difference between a 911S & a 914S anyway - that's just BS & illogical on PAG's part!

Two-faced because - while they had a hissy fit over the USA branch's use of 914S & put the kibosh on it almost immediately - although I think that they waited for 6 months thinking about it & watching how it worked, since I don't agree that it was a surprise to them - because they had corporate governance then too,

.... but they allowed the British distributor to continue to use the 914SC through to the end of of the 1976 MY & end of 914 production!

I mean really! .... if it were really a problem to have had a 914S over here, then calling it a 914SC in the British Isles should've been an equal problem relative to their claimed confusion with the 911S. ... or why not then call them all 914SC's?

IMHO - there was more to it than what the "outside cover story" tells, because it just doesn't "smell right" even today, and it certainly is illogical & irrational - the opposite of which the precise Teutonic types like to claim of themselves!

In any case - the facts are the facts in this matter -

1. Porsche+Audi (NA) did in fact clearly advertise & promote the 914 2.0 as a "914 S" from Summer 1972 to December 1972 or January 1973 or so, with Porsche's/PAG's implicit or tacit approval -

... because PAG could clearly have shut down the "914S marketing campaign" long before Dec. 72 - if not immediately, had they wanted to, and they certainly saw the marketing & sales materials at some point early on. After all, they did get US magazines in West Germany back then.

2. Those 73 MY 914-2.0/914S cars came loaded with the extra Appearance & Performance Groups' options in the base price, i.e.: at no extra cost for that `73 model year only -

... except as Murray stated on the 74 MY 2.0 LE's, which in & of itself was in fact an extra cost item in a package deal over & above the base price for a 74 MY 914-2.0 - so it still wasn't "loaded in the 2.0 model's base cost".

In fact, the 73 MY 914S/914-2.0 was only about $1000+/- more than a base level 73 MY 914 1.7 - & with the extra cost of the extra Appearance & Performance Groups' options & alloy wheels of any type added to the base price of that model - the difference effectively disappears! Just look at the 73 MY's 1.7 & 2.0 models' window stickers on Jeff Bowlsby's 914 website if you doubt that fact.

So for a little extra dough, you got about 1/4 to 1/3 more HP in a much better equipped chassis - remembering that for the 73 MY the California 1.7's had been detuned to 69 hp from the "49 state 1.7's" 76 hp, vs. the 2.0's 91 hp.

Pat - I know that you had the option to pay $5099 for that 73 2.0 sitting in the lot vs. your 72 My 1.7 at around $4000 with at least some of the options & the better 80 hp 1.7 motor, but when comparing the same 73 MY 1.7 & 2.0 - the economics are a bit closer. Even in 1975 when I looked for my used 914, I still felt it was a better deal to pay $4500 for a 73 2.0 - over the $3000-4200 that I was seeing for a lesser equipped & lower powered with tail-shifter 70-72 1.7 model or even a wheezier 73 1.7L, as many folks have opted since.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 5 2010, 05:48 AM

Well there you go Andy - you & he just clearly illustrated Porsche's concern over the confusion of 914S'es being 911s'es - in this case with a 911S motor to boot!

Oh wait - that's why they took a perfectly fine 911T 2.0 flat 6 & detuned it from 120 hp to 110 hp before they stuck them in 914-6's - to avoid that perennial 914-6 & 911T confusion!

Maybe they should've just avoided all the "real Porsche" & "real sports car" confusion all together - and just dropped those tail-heavy 911's from the line-up - & just put the good engines in the better cars in the first place, so that all these motor swaps wouldn't be necessary!!!!

Posted by: MDG Jun 5 2010, 07:20 AM

Here's my perspective. As someone who has owned a printing company for 17 years, I can tell you it's amazing how many things get produced, distributed, then recalled, redesigned and re-printed. Happens all the time; with banks, pharmaceutical companies, retailers, manufacturers etc., etc. It could be legal reasons such as copyright infringement. It could be the Head Office gets wind of it and drops the hammer. In major corporations the territories often work independently from the HO. Sometimes they get their wrists slapped.

I've know of the 914S story for decades - I have the same brochure Tom has posted on several occasions that came with my first '73 I drove as my DD in the 80s. Both my 73's - my old one and my current Phoenix Red - are fully optioned (including the rear window defroster) 2.0 914's.

The story I have always heard is just what Pat has said every time this comes up; Porsche NA decided to add some marketing spit & polish by 'creating' the 914S - a fully optioned version of the then new 2.0 914. They produced the literature, sent it out and then got the cease and desist from Stuttgart. Simple. Happens all the time. Kinda like the Beatles butcher cover.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 5 2010, 09:25 AM

Absolutely Mike, for the most part - - with you & Pat, that it was nothing more than a marketing gimmick - the same as the ad series of "The __[blank]__ Porsche" ad campaigns of which this was a part or subset. I believe that I stated so above, & that their reason for adding the extra AG & PG options as "included" was to make it more comparable with the 914-6 which it was replacing.

My sole purpose for posting this info was to clarify & put to rest the subject as to the facts of the matters for all those out there who are or may later be curious about the subject (prompted in fact by some questions from others), which has not been done specifically as it's own topic in O&H - & it IS part of the 914's history.

And I was there & had the brochure too back in the day 38 & 41 years ago in person as a young adult, as a car crazy teenager Junior/Senior in High School when the 914's were released in 1969 - as well as a car crazy 20-21 year old Junior/Senior in college when the 914S marketing campaign started for the release of the then "new" 2 Liter 914 model.

However, it was not a quickly retracted campaign as Mike & Pat imply. Nor do I think it should just be "blown off" as some crazy & irresponsible market guy's brash act, which got his hands slapped, and nothing more. It was in fact a well thought out, planned & executed broad based marketing campaign to introduce a new 914 (sub-)model to the North American marketplace, which lasted a long period of time as ad campaigns go! And one at least in part responsible for the best sales volume model year ever for the 914, since about 60% of them were sold here in the USA (not counting Canada), wherein more 73 MY 914-2.0's were sold than in any other of the three 74-76 by a large margin, as in the chart below prepared by PCA with data from Porsche & PCNA.



Here's my perspective and personal opinions as someone with my own business since 1983, involved in some major corporations before that, and some formal education in marketing during my MBA program - but it's still just IMHO & some Sherlock Holmes style deductive reasoning 4 decades later.

My other point in responding to Pat's comment (other than agreeing with him), was that IMHO the US marketing gurus probably were on the right track & more consistent in "branding" terminology & better for marketing the 914 2L's as a "914S" - as opposed to PAG's schizophrenic "branding" of the 911 series with letters (T, L, E, S, SC), while the 914 series was "branded" with numbers denoting engine type/size (-6, 1.7, 1.8, 2.0).

Clearly today we can see that it was a mistake for them to have branded this fine sports car as a "VW-Porsche" in the rest of the world - even if everybody cannot agree that the individual sub-models' inconsistent branding was detrimental. However, you all should take note that since that time - sub-models in all series have instead been consistently branded by Porsche by the letter convention - not engine size convention (924S, 928S, Boxster S, etc.).

If I had been PAG's Director of Marketing back in the day, then I would've strongly recommended using the same system as the predecessor 911 series & 356 series, by adding letters to denote sub-models - which has the added benefit of not needing to be changed as the 1.7 changed to 1.8, or for various 6 cylinder displacements. In that hypothetical case & assuming that you started in the initial 1970 MY, then the 2.0 (& later 72 MY 2.2/2.4) 914-6 would've instead been the 914S (so the guy with the dremeled badge had the right idea), then the 1.7 & 1.8 would've instead both been the 914T or 914L or maybe just 914 for all MYs, and then the 73-76 914/4 2.0 would've been the 911E or 914T if not used on the 1.7/1.8 (say! ... now there's a whole new set of "custom badges" we can all get to thoroughly confuse everybody).

But this is all just an academic hypothetical discussion on this point on my part, so don't other CW's "get your shorts in a bunch," nor those new to the world of 914s think that Porsche ever considered this way of denoting the 914's (as far as I know, they may or may not have ever even discussed it).

And I certainly would've "avoided like the plague" the ill-conceived co-branding of the VW-Porsche anywhere, even if the JV produced it and marketed it in certain regions. Again - Porsche+Audi NA had a far better handle on & were much less naive about market perceptions, than were their German counterparts at either VW or Porsche!

Where I disagree with Mike's & Pat's reasoning on this matter, is that in most cases it doesn't take 6+ months to effect the recall of the incorrect collateral materials, as happened in this case. Make that 9+/- months - if you figure that in the pre-digital printing age, they would've needed to produce the brochures & artwork/copy for the print ads 60-90 days in advance of that, in order to have them distributed to the dealerships by say July 72 when we first saw the 2 Liter 914s on the dealer's lots.

Marketing campaigns like that were not just thrown together willy-nilly, but were well thought out marketing strategies with coordinated ad campaigns, collateral sales materials, sales tactics, etc. And the US marketing staff at Porsche+Audi were trying to do their best to work around awkward model branding & marketing as pursued by their European counterparts.

Somebody from Porsche must have at least seen an ad with the 914S in a US or Canadian magazine before the end of the year in 1972 - even if nobody breathed a word about everything before then. Standard operating procedure would be to at least send copies of the marketing & sales info. produced to the home office. Ergo, it must've collected dust for 9 months - & nobody looked at a US/Canadian magazine or newspaper with their 914S ads in that time span either - in order to have ignored & not stopped the 914S sales & marketing program here.

I think that it is far more likely and reasonable to assume or guess, that someone at Porsche/PAG's executive suite was indeed aware of the 914S marketing campaign here in the US & Canada prior to the release of the materials - or at least shortly afterwords, and they instead elected to sit back awhile to see what happened. Then later at some point in early 1973 someone on top pulled the plug - because it was clearly "gone" as a 914S within the ONE month between the publication of the Jan. 73 Motor Trend article noting the "914S", and the Feb. 73 Road & Track article noting the "914/2" & going further to discuss the change & a complete lack of a substitute model designation supplied by Porsche!

In fact, Porsche/PAG pulled the plug late in the game a bit more than halfway through the 1973 model year, but did it so fast that two "promotional" road test articles in consecutive months from major auto industry publishers were using two names for the car, & Porsche did so without the forethought to even suggest using the 914-2.0 designation until the following 74 MY - as evidenced by the two post-change 73 MY ads which I posted above, which merely refer to a 2.0 engine - not even a 914-2.0 at that point!

Clearly somebody from PAG acted quickly, and could certainly have done so back in Summer of 72! Moreover, they acted without any plan of action to redirect the marketing campaign & branding of their new flagship 914 model! IMHO - that was an ill conceived & amateurish move on whomever's part!

... and then there's that nagging "WHY" did they allow the Brits to continue to use the 914SC term in marketing the 914-2.0's in the British Isles (and perhaps elsewhere in the Commonwealth)??

Again - where are the Brit's to add their two pence??

Posted by: MDG Jun 5 2010, 02:31 PM

To be honest Tom, I just skimmed through all that. But one thing I noticed; I never implied that the recall of the literature and the '914S' branding happened quickly. I'm not sure where Pat did either. I have no doubt it took months. And if lawyers where involved, months and months. That Motor Trend '914S' road test was probably done in the summer during the press junket on the initial roll out. MT published it when it fit their schedule.

No one disputes all this took place and that for a while the North American marketing guys tried to create a unique for us 914S.

Truthfully, I'm not sure what you are getting at here or what point you are trying to make. "Fact or Myth?"

This story has been around for 37 years and has been fairly well documented during that time as to what transpired, how the name came up and how the idea was trashed.

Posted by: carr914 Jun 5 2010, 03:13 PM

What you are forgetting is that the 914 was the Best Selling car Porsche EVER had for the time it was for sale, until they started cranking out Crap in the 90's.

Tom, I think you are making way too much of this, But it may & I hope it educates the Newbies. Marketing & Lawyers very Rarely mix.

T.C.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 5 2010, 10:57 PM

............You people are overlooking , sidestepping , some basic facts.....to call the 914-S...a north-american only venture......The cars,914.s, that were produced, WITH ALL the options-WHICH WERE designated (914-S).....Had to be Purpose built ,manufactured.(during 1972,actually, and sold in 1973).....and...that process of including all of the (expensive) options HAD to have had porsche AG approval.(during 1972-1973......and.... at the same TIME other 914,s were being produced which DID NOT HAVE all the options..(offered on the 914-S)......There was a difference in the options, and, thus, the designation as these cars sold in late 1972-early 1973 in america.....as I said previously the FULLY optioned 1974 914 was the LE, can- am car.,obviously designated....do they have a special rear badge?....So the reality , and facts are....1) Porsche AG authorized SOME (1972-1973) early cars to be produced FULLY OPTIONED....2)...Porsche AG, and american distributors, had photographs, artwork,publications and broschures available for the cars...purpose built....designated 914-S...3)..the fully optioned 1974 914,s were designated LE,can-am and were ALSO purpose built.

Posted by: MDG Jun 6 2010, 06:35 AM

. . . . and the point is?

Tom starts this thread off, I gathered, as some sort of educational '914S - what's the deal' kind of thing. Did they? Tom asks . . . well yes and no. The no gets 4 lines of type. The yes goes on for pages and pages.

As soon as Pat or myself offer up some more weight to the 'no - not really' side of the story, pages more are written. Why? Are you guys trying to uncover some dark conspiracy here?

Is this all about having justification to be able to refer to your cars as a 914S? If so, go for it!

My first '73 was built in late 1972. My current '73 was built in March 1973. Both cars came with every option available.

Regardless of some short lived, North American produced sales brochure, the only difference between them is the colour.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 6 2010, 07:51 AM

Frankly, I'm confussed by all this. Is there a conclusion in less than 25 words?

Posted by: ME733 Jun 6 2010, 07:54 AM

..........MDG, I see, understand your point. I think.......the basic point is , of this on going posting is that 1) there were a series of fully optioned 914,s constructed in 1972-73.....2)Porsche ag produced and had literature available for those cars SEPERATE from the other 914,s produced during the same time frame.3) those fully optioned cars were SOLD as 914-S.....at least for a period of time, WITH Porsche ag knowledge.........I have not seen or heard of any , RETRACTION letter, or documentation, from porsche ag. as to the designation of 914-S not being authorized....4).These cars were produced by Porsche ag, and still exist.,and have the Porsche ag. markrting materials to conferm they were SOLD as 914-S......The point is , in reality , there WERE 914-S cars produced, possabaly in limited numbers. Those of us who HAVE ONE are intrested in preserving them as they are different and a little special.

Posted by: MDG Jun 6 2010, 08:48 AM

Hmmm. It's common practice in automobile production that initial assembly lines produce different trim levels so the dealerships have availability to fall buyers. So those buyers aren't turned off by having to wait a month or two.

For Germany to have made a bunch of Appearance Group model 2.0 914's in advance to ship to NA is nothing unusual.

Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2010, 08:48 AM

[quote name='carr914' date='Jun 5 2010, 05:13 PM' post='1328473']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1328275' date='Jun 5 2010, 07:04 AM']

But it may & I hope it educates the Newbies. Marketing & Lawyers very Rarely mix.

T.C.
[/quote]

Well, I thought that this thread would educate Newbies, BUT, when people post "Facts" that are Not facts, it will not educate, but confuse.

The S was Marketing by the American distributor, period.

Here are some Facts;

By the 1973 Model year, the 914-6 was gone.
EnthusiastsCar Magazines were not impressed with the 1.7 (See attached R&T excerpt)
The Porsche designed 2.0 was coming out.
Magazine Ads were produced touting the better model the 2.0 (in your guys words the S)

Posted by: MDG Jun 6 2010, 08:59 AM

Yes. The R&T excerpt TC posted above (which ironically Tom did as well in one of his initial posts) pretty much sums it up nicely.

That's what a good editor will do for you; point made in a paragraph. Period.

Moving on.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 6 2010, 01:46 PM

[quote name='carr914' date='Jun 6 2010, 10:48 AM' post='1328762']
[quote name='carr914' date='Jun 5 2010, 05:13 PM' post='1328473']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1328275' date='Jun 5 2010, 07:04 AM']

But it may & I hope it educates the Newbies. Marketing & Lawyers very Rarely mix.

T.C.
[/quote]

Well, I thought that this thread would educate Newbies, BUT, when people post "Facts" that are Not facts, it will not educate, but confuse.

The S was Marketing by the American distributor, period.

Here are some Facts;

By the 1973 Model year, the 914-6 was gone.
EnthusiastsCar Magazines were not impressed with the 1.7 (See attached R&T excerpt)
The Porsche designed 2.0 was coming out.
Magazine Ads were produced touting the better model the 2.0 (in your guys words the S)




[/quote]
........................Could you post the entire page, which includes the paragraph you have shown?.....thanks.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 6 2010, 01:49 PM

.............COULD you post the entire page(s)... , from which , the paragraph you show came from., and the source if possable would be appreciated.thanks.

Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2010, 04:07 PM

Full Article, some of which is on Pg1 of this thread

Posted by: carr914 Jun 6 2010, 04:10 PM

Posted by: ME733 Jun 6 2010, 07:34 PM

.......Thank you carr914,....for the posting of the r/t article..what was the date ,as I can not see /find it......and the specific small paragraph ,you posted previously, is not in the article you posted last.....could you help out again by providing the full page , source and date, of the small posting you made earlier....thank you.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 6 2010, 11:16 PM

Mike & Pat, don't get me wrong - no harm no foul!

The purpose of this write up is in the History part of the O&H theme, so it is just to pass along the info. for others who may be interested &/or heard the "legend" - so I don't want them later on reading this & thinking that is was some quickie flash in the pan that was pulled back quickly, since it lasted half +/- of the 73 MY.

In reality it's more of a curiousity, & I like to play what if's as in the above. It probably would make for a good B-school case study!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 6 2010, 11:25 PM

I agree it was the best selling, & sold as many in 6 MYs as ALL years of the 356's combined. Unfortunately, the VW-Porsche JV set a goal of 30k per year, so even the 27k+/- of the 73 & 74 MY's disappointed them!

IMHO, a company like Porsche lucky to make/sell +/- 10k 911s/912s a year prior to that, was probably setting unrealistic goals for the 914. It was a true loss to drop the excellent handling 914s, in favor of the 924s IMHO!

Anyhoo, you're right on - not a big deal I was making, just passing along the info. So thanx for posting the full article, cuz my pix of it are way too big to upload here - ergo only the excerpts!

BTW - that article is the main one which convinced me to buy my 73 914 2L over a 240Z, back in 75!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 6 2010, 11:35 PM

Yes Murray, the USA marketing arm Porsche+Audi was duly concerned over the $5099 East POE & $5299 West POE cost relative to it's 71 914-6 at about the same price, so they requested them to be sent here loaded - at least early in the model year through Jan-March 73.

However, Steve Gaglione (Sahara Beige 73 2L in O&H "The Few, the rare...") recalled some late in the 73 MY which were not loaded with everything, we both speculating that it was due to the base price having been increased twice in 73 due to the DM to $ exchange rate & high inflation driving up the base price on them & P+A wanting to be able to still offer a basic 2L around the old $5100-5300 opening price - even if missing some options - from the prior year through at least the R&T 2/73 article.

I've never been able to verify that nor find any 73MY 2L window sticker with those extras not N/C or without the full AG+PG option lists, so I really don't know if they indeed sold any lesser equipped 73 2L's here.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 6 2010, 11:55 PM

Mike - the No part is pretty self evident, because none were ever badged as such, beyond the "for fun" 914S badges made up after the fact. Does it need more weight - only if someone can offer some other useful document or internal memo from Porsche to P+A to drop the 914S ads, because I've never seen one & it would be interesting to see something.

However, what is NOT around & is far less obvious because it never gained or held traction in the Porsche marketing scheme - and of which many of the younger Teeners may not be aware because they weren't around back then when we were - is the documentation which I chose to share by doing this write up on it which you state goes on for pages. That way others can read it, see the documentation from the actual period, & go from there.

This doesn't have to be some nefarious scheme nor process to justify sticking a 914S badge on my car! .... believe me, if I'd wanted to do so, I could've & would've long ago with no justification required!

Sometimes you guys just try to read too frigging much into somebody posting some 914 related info. In my mind, posting this sotrt of historical stuff is no different than posting a cherry 914 like Steve's in "The few, the rare ..." or wheels, tires, or anything else in the nailed forums. It's just info & facts man - nuttin more!

So I encourage other to post some useful 914 info. which you have around, rather than just looking to make commentary on others, in order to keep this O&H section alive. So far I've tried this & the vintage ads to little positive reception, so I'm beginning to feel why Pat G. got so frustrated here!

Still no Brits with info on the 914SC????

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 12:04 AM

1. Porsche+Audi marketed the 914/4 2.0 "fully loaded" as the "914 S" in ads & sales brochures from Summer 1972 to about Jan/Feb 1973, then Porsche made them stop.

2. The British Distributor similarly marketed the 914/4 2.0 from the outset through 1976 as the 914SC, but was never told to stop.

3. Neither was ever badged as either a 914S or 914SC.

4. If one is interested, read the stuff posted here from that 1970's period.

More than 25 words, but I'm sure you can wade through the 4 points if you're reading this.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 01:18 AM

[quote name='carr914' date='Jun 6 2010, 07:48 AM' post='1328762']
[quote name='carr914' date='Jun 5 2010, 05:13 PM' post='1328473']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1328275' date='Jun 5 2010, 07:04 AM']
[/quote]
Well, I thought that this thread would educate Newbies, BUT, when people post "Facts" that are Not facts, it will not educate, but confuse.

[/quote]

TC - you're coming around the bend on that one, & don't know where you're coming from with that sort of spurious accusation, and then repost something I had already posted to make your point!?

I posted original material from that 1972-73 period & those were facts which are/were facts - period!

Moreover, I clearly stated when I was writing something which was speculation or a personal opinion, and no facts.

The paragraph above from the R&T article was what I posted myself to make the point on the timing & why of the end of the 914S marketing campaign.....so again

Let me make a fine point here, this kind of running down somebody for putting up info here from the period, instead of adding something constructive yourselves really is uncalled for & frankly P.O.'s people. It's no wonder others reading these things are reluctant to participate, which is precisely at least part of why Pat quit as moderator. Think about beyond you and whomever's post you want to run down, to how others will read it & take the general tenor of the group.

And Nobody likes to be called a liar my friend: "when people post "Facts" that are Not facts" .... which that implies!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 02:22 AM

My initial post has been edited with a "Cliff Notes" version for impatient types who want everything in 25 words or less, as well as a disclaimer for the "master debaters" looking for conspiracies to disprove! So you can't say I'm not responsive to your comments & criticisms.

Signed -
One ticked member

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 7 2010, 03:17 AM

Porsche didn't "kill" the 914, VW did as they owed the Karmann plant and forced Porsche out as VW wanted the line for the new water cooled Scirroco. Porsche tried and failed to find a suitable affordable place to setup the line to keep production going but failed. The 76 MY cars bodies were made in 1975 and at the Christmas break the line was switched over to Scirroco producion. This is why Porsche came out with the 912E, to fill the gap in their line with a inexpensive car after the 914's were sold out. So you could add the 2100 912E cars to see about how many 76 914's should have sold. The question is how long would Porsche continue selling the 914 at 6-7000 cars a year? What would they have done to upgrade the model line "IF" VW hadn't pulled the assembly plant from under them...
Remember, Porsche fully owned the 914 from mid 74 as they had bought out VW at that time. They had plans for the 914 but when VW announced their plans in 1975 for the Karmann plant Porsches plans went up in smoke.

The 924 is another story as VW pulled out of the production of this car at the final moment and the Audi plant were the cars were going to be made came to Porsche with a sweetheart deal to distribute the cars as Porsches.

I

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 7 2010, 03:17 AM

sorry, stupid Surinamese provider did it!
I

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 7 2010, 03:17 AM

double post
I

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 7 2010, 03:17 AM

double post

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 03:38 AM

Okay - I got your point after the 4th one posted! ... twitchy finger I guess!?

I was aware the Porsche switched to the 924 after VW backed out & that before that they explored various options with the 914, but was not aware that they were booting the 914 from the Karmann plant to make room for Scirocco production.

I think that Porsche probably would've moved to the 924 though, even if they still had the Karmann plant's line available, because they wanted to try out water cooled.

What theneeded was to continue the 73 & 74 sales volume in the 20,000+ range, but the prices had just climbed too high by 75 to sell that many, plus we had a pretty bad recession here then too, depressing sales (as today).

One huge problem for all imported car makers were threatened tariffs, bad monetary exchange rates (for them importing), & the runaway inflation of the 70's, which had 76 914's selling for about what the 911s did when the 914s came out in 69/70! By 76 a 914-2L with the option cost for the AG & PG options was north of $8000 out here in CA, but smog detuned to 86 hp.

While in Fall 75 I could've gotten a new 76 2L on 100% loan vs. 75% used for my 73 2L & have about the same payments, I didn't like the big bumpers nor the lower power engine ~ & today I'd still be required to smog it every other year!

Posted by: carr914 Jun 7 2010, 06:35 AM

Tom, 1st of all, my comment about the Facts was Not aimed at you, so don't get your panties in a Wad and I didn't call anybody a liar.

My point is when people offer up opinion as "Fact", then it misleads everyone that comes along. That is what is wrong with Wikipedia for instance,.

T.C.

Posted by: carr914 Jun 7 2010, 06:43 AM

I have the R&T On Porsche 1972-1975, which states the date of the article as Feb 1973, But they reference 1974 in the article.

The small paragraph Tom & I earlier referenced is on the 2nd page of the article to the right of the Headlight picture.

T.C.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 7 2010, 07:46 AM

...THANKS carr914..........so what I get from the road and track article is this. ROAD and TRACK states THEY changed the designation, (as THEY THOUGHT, the the 911-S and 914-S designations were too close.) and in their article ,DATED 1974, the use of the 2.0 script on the rear was enough to have them (R/T) use THAT designation.(and then apply it retroactivally to late 1972-early 1973)...914-S cars., which ALSO may have had the 2.0 script. No factory, Porsche AG, RETRACTION of the ORIGINAL 914-S advertising, sales broschures, marketing, and SALES of the 914-S exists...therefore R/T published their opinion....only....and in 1974.......Now you ask what is the point of all this....a part of the point is my curosity over IF ALL... 1973 2.0 ...cars... had ALL of the OPTIONS INCLUDED in the original introductory-914-S.. and advertisd as such. DID ALL 1973-2.0 914,s have ALL the options?....I don't think so.................

Posted by: MDG Jun 7 2010, 09:27 AM

Not really wanting to belabor this . . . . but your supposition above has zero value. You've misread the article, in particular the paragraph both Tom and TC singled out.

R&T coined the 914/2 moniker only and only for the purposes of having a name for the damned thing so they could write a story about it. By the time this article was written - and I'd wager it was written summer/fall of '72 - Porsche (or as R&T states the 'Home Office'), had already killed the 914 S attempt by NA

Posted by: URY914 Jun 7 2010, 11:10 AM

WOW, all this bandwith summed up in 4 points. Thank you.

Posted by: MDG Jun 7 2010, 12:44 PM

And Tom, I'm not trying to give people a hard time for giggles here but to use as an example of what T.C. was referring to, where does the above 'fact' come from?

Is this based on the MotorTrend and R&T articles? If so, with all due respect, this is an opinion based on an assumption. MT's January article calls it a 914S and a couple of months later R&T explains if differently?

I don't buy that at all. Those articles could have been - and probably were - written months before. The MT bit could have been written, edited and mocked to print by the time word came down on the name change. If they are anything like the publications I deal with, those mags are printed 2-2 1/2 months in advance of pub date which means final art for layout is a month plus ahead of that.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 7 2010, 12:50 PM

.........mgd YOU missed the point ....and intentionally, in my opinion.....what I was getting to , or at....as my LAST post clearly stated is.....were ALL 914-2 cars produced in MY 1973 constructed as ...FULLY OPTIONED CARS...(thats clear isn't it.?)...meaning ,again,.... were ALL the OPTIONS ,(as were advertised while the 914-S was being sold as such)......WERE... all the options included in EVERY 914-2, produced in MY 1973.( Is this clear enough for you to understand?).....IF NOT... then a conclusion CAN be made that the 914-S cars (produced for a period of time,)and Advertised as such, are different., by virtue of the fact they have MORE OPTIONS. Is this clear enough.

Posted by: MDG Jun 7 2010, 01:20 PM

This has gone from the sublime to wa-aaaay beyond ridiculous. You think I 'intentionally' misread it because . . . . . . ? seriously?

The reason I stated you had misread it is from the opening line of your post. The way it reads is you took it that R&T decided to can the 914S name. If that's not what you meant, it's sure how your post reads. And as this is clearly not what they actually wrote, you can see how I came to the conclusion that you misread it . . . . .

Anyway, enough of this nonsense. The 914S has been a pet theme of Tom's since some of his earliest posts. More power to him for putting his thoughts down.

There is nothing further of value here for me so I'm done with this time waster.

cheers, mike.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 01:28 PM

Okay TC, I've pulled my panties out of my crack & feel much better this morning!

All of those seemingly negative responses piled on top of each other just hit me wrong late last night, after spending the weekend trying to figure out whether or not the "mysterious disappearing clunk in the crankcase" of our 88 Westy is a bad bearing/etc. - needing a new engine - taking more $$'s away from my 914 resto!
M#@$%%F$^*%$#@S*&O%$B*&@#!!!!!

So folks -

Sorry, but the only documentation which I've found on the Porsche AG putting an end to the 914S marketing campaign in the US/Canada, was the paragraph from the Feb 73 R&T, as well as other similar 2nd & 3rd hand sources in those 2 books in my first post referring to the "word from on high" to stop using it. Nothing first hand nor an official PAG document, but it's pretty clear what did happen from the R&T quote & I have no doubt that it did happen pretty much the way stated & P+A passed along the request to R&T not to use the "914S" in their article.

I think that MDG/Mike G, Pat G., TC (& maybe URY) got mislead skimming through the write-ups documentation of the period on the 914S story, & then focused more on some later opining about marketing strategies that I was doing as part of the "discussion" - thinking that I was instead trying to make that the focus of the topic post or trying to justify calling/badging 914-2.0's as "914S" (I was not, but anyone who wants to do so "for fun" should at least know the actual details of the story as much as can be known) - instead of what I intended: a clarification to others new to the subject that the 914S marketing campaign wasn't a few week long sidebar internal primarily or only to the Porsche AG & Porsche+Audi (US/Canada) entities.

I think that some folks are just the types who put the "914S" into the category of NARM (Not A Real Model - which it was not as far as the factory was concerned, even if P+A would've preferred that be the model name) - similar to the way the 356/911/912 fanatics put all 914's as NARP (Not A Real Porsche) - and so in their minds they just write it off as some silly marketing gimmick - which in truth it was, in the same way as was the "The __[blank]__ Porsche" series of the period!

But I didn't want newbies to the history on this reading their comments as if it was a few week long "flash in the pan," which it was was not.

However, their concern is probably that someone will then think that it was somehow a "real model" - which I do not believe is the case in the way in which I chose to present it - particularly with the short & sweet "No" side of the issue put first from the outset & supported further in with the Feb. 73 R&T paragraph posted, which is pretty straightforward & obvious - i.e.: not really needing further "documentation" than showing the only 2 ways in which 914/4 2.0s' were badged & the later R&T statement.

Whereas, the "yes" side merely is presenting contemporaneous documentation (P+A ads & sales materials) which is not readily available to everyone today without digging for it over the months it took me to read & collect it all (i.e.: saving others the time & trouble).

My intent again in posting this topic, is basically to present the story/history of the 914S & 914SC marketing campaigns with period documentation - NOT to debate it's pro's, cons, nor pooh-pooh the idea.

What I would've expected from other 914 enthusiasts in such a presentation - & still hope will happen - would be to add to the documentation posted on either side of the story & add constructively to the knowledge base - NOT to try to debate it, complain about being too much to read through, cast it off with flippancy, nor to run me down for having the nerve to post such "official heresy" in the first place.

As far as I know, the USA only sold fully loaded 914 2L's for the first half of the model year or maybe as far as Feb.-March 73 or so, but unfortunately Porsche+Audi here couldn't convince Porsche AG to use the 914S badging.

At least Porsche+Audi here WAS successful from the start in convincing them only to market them as a "PORSCHE" only without that confusing & eventually counterproductive VW-Porsche badge on the back!

So we have to be satisfied that it is a provable point that Porsche+Audi here at least marketed them & talked about them as "914S" for the first half of the 73 model year!

... and that IS exactly what the sales guy at LA Porsche+Audi called them when I went in there in December 72 for a "Winter Break Field Trip"!!!! - with my classmate whose parents eventually got him one for graduation in Spring 73!

So - let's put the debating of the issue of it aside, & focus on filling in any missing details instead, as well as adding pix of period documentation - especially for the "missing" 914SC side of the story which so far is not covered except by a few of my references.

Again - Thanx TC for posting the additional pages of the full R&T article - yes it was Feb. 73, but the 74 reference I think might have been either a misprint or reference to the next coming model year.

And come on the rest of you out there - dig through your 914 archives & add some interesting related period documentation to add to the "knowledge base" here.


Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 01:38 PM

Sorry URY - in my enthusiasm to share stuff - I forget that some folks don't want to see/read all the other documents & stuff - & just want the "headline news" short-n-sweet, so I added a Cliff Notes summary as above at the front for others in your boat.

However, others of us enjoy reading & writing more details and appreciate the info., as well as the story behind them - as well as can be ferreted out at this point, and given "boardroom/corporate secrecy," long lost documents, etc.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 7 2010, 03:05 PM

No Mike/All it was still in use in Nov/Dec `72 & the article was written or at least finalized around then - since my buddy & I got a tip from the LA Porsche+Audi sales manager when I went with him to look at the 914's during Nov. & Dec. `72 - & he & the sales people then still referred to the 2L as the "914S" & still were handing out brochures with 914S (which is where & when I got my original 12 pg. one). He told us in Nov. to go out to one of the canyon side roads off Mulholland Dr. (IIRC) where R&T was doing their pix for test drive from the Feb. 73 issue, where we saw them shooting that very same black 914 2.0 under that oak tree in the one pic, before they ran us off!



Yes it is in part based on those 2 articles from Jan. & Feb. 1973 - as well as from other articles in the 914 Portfolio book & other magazines, as well as in the Brian Long book and others. The story is around in many sources.

I believe that I backed my dating up by 2 months from Feb. 73 as the possible timing for the decree from PAG for P+A to stop, but even if it were 3-4 months as you suggest may have been the case - that is still Sept/Oct. of 72 - but their change wasn't fully implemented until sometime after Nov./Dec. `72 by my own personal & first hand experience at the time. However, up until this point my intent was only to provide period documentation on the subject at hand, rather than my college days "field trips" to the dealership a few blocks away & elsewhere.

I personally know because I was there with my own eyes & ears in Nov. & Dec. 1972 to see & hear the 914S term in use at Porsche+Audi dealerships, who continued using the 914 sales brochures & print ads with "914S" well into Dec. `72 & early 1973. If PAG had wanted to effect the change completely in the Summer or Fall of 1972 - as you are suggesting, then certainly they would not have been still handing out brochures with 914S in them during Dec. `72 & Jan. 73. Thereafter, from about Mar. 73 or so until the end of the 73 MY in June/July 73, they simply used the 914 designation alone with reference to the 2.0 motor - as I posted in the 2 post-change ads from Spring 73, as far as I can recall or have seen since.

IIRC - even Pat Garvey has said in the past that he recalled the dealer's sales people calling it a 914S &/or having the brochures with that terminology when he was in the in mid-1972 (Summer or Fall - I don't know which).

BTW - a group of us also went to the inaugural Long Beach Grand Prix the following model year, and asked the reps there "whatever happened to the "914S" designation?" upon seeing the new 74 MY brochures with "914 2.0," & they told us that Porsche told them to stop using it midway through the `73 model year.

Whether or not PAG wanted to end it before Dec. 72 - Jan. 73 - the "hard copy" fact remains that both print ads (I personally have a B&W 914S ad from a Dec. 72 publication) & magazine articles - in addition to the sales materials noted above - with "914S" references, were all still in circulation during Dec. 72 - Jan. 73. Ergo - it had NOT been fully withdrawn & wound-down until halfway through the 1973 MY - regardless of when PAG's intent, first notice, notifying R&T for their article, etc. occurred.

While it's interesting information on the timing of the R&T magazine article's possible publication process & timing - in terms of the function & presentation to consumers, it is a moot point because the public was still seeing "914S" all through the first 6+ months of the 73 MY - which is an undeniable fact per the publications posted here & elsewhere - whether you &/or others "buy it" or not.



Mike - perhaps you came into this thinking that this was my "pet theme" & therefore presumed that I was trying to prove something more than what happened in the "914S" saga?

In previous posts I had reacted to some folks claiming that there never was anything at all about a "914S" - since I knew that there was from my personal first hand experience. Here I was just trying to provide some actual documentation to & references of the "914S marketing campaign", how it was presented in officially sanctioned documents & ads, & approximately the timing & duration of the campaign - nothing more.

There is more that you could add, if you have any further documents &/or information on the matters at hand......then by all means please do so!

However, if your intent is to prove me wrong & question my & others personal first hand knowledge from that time - & try instead to make a case that is was a fluke ended by September of 1972 - then, yes you are wasting your time here because there were clearly documents & publications in circulation to the public with reference to "914S" up to & including at least January 1973 - irrespective of when they were prepared.

If that is the case, then I really do not understand why you would want to take such a hard line position to shoot down myself & other members who were actually there "back in the day" buddy, cuz you're not usually that way on here!!??

Cheers Back at Ya!
Tom
///////

Posted by: carr914 Jun 7 2010, 03:48 PM

Tom, you kind of opened up that can-o-worms when you originally named this Thread "Myth or Fact"

The other thing is when you talk about what Dealership Salesman called the car. I guarantee you when I walk into a Dealership, I know more about the car I'm looking at than any Salesman in the place. Car Salesman are usually the laziest dumbass's on the planet. Heck a friend of mine bought a Dodge van a couple of years ago that the Saleman & accompaning paperwork said was a V-8 when it was a V-6. Boy did they eat that.

OK back to the subject, has anybody seen a 914SC? Also what do you think SC stands for?, because even the 911 guys can't come to an agreement on that.

T.C.

Posted by: MDG Jun 7 2010, 04:27 PM

Tom, I'll go back on what I said about being done with this thread only to reply to your last post and only so you don't continue to misunderstand any of my posts.

I wasn't being hardnosed to anyone. My point about your 'pet theme 914S', frankly, is because you have brought this up more than anyone else ever has. It IS a recurring topic with you, Tom. I never said there was anything wrong with that.

I then said more power to you for putting it all down. Seems like a pat on the back to me, no?

My post you quoted - and edited - as you are well aware, was not even directed at you. I think my full response clearly shows what I was saying, to whom and why. And yes, with all due respect, for me this topic is a time waster. Just my opinion - don't expect you to share it . . .

and one question to go along with T.C.'s about the SC as I really don't remember; was the 911 even called an SC then? I thought that model name came a year or so after the demise of the 914 I know there was a 911S when the ill-fated 914S arose but did Porsche even use the SC name during the 914 run?

Anyway, as a nice parting gift, here's a shot of my '73 2.0's ass

Posted by: carr914 Jun 7 2010, 05:30 PM

The 911SC started in 78, but there was a 356 Carrera SC and now there is a New 911 Model SC ( but only available in Europe)

So during the era of the 914, the 911 models consisted of 911, T, E, some leftover L, R, S, Carrera 2.7, Carrera 3.0, Carrera RS, Carrera RSR, Turbo Carrera, & Carrera RS Turbo.

Posted by: MDG Jun 7 2010, 05:39 PM

Thank you, sir.

I thought the SC badging came about after the fact. So technically, and no Tom I am not slagging you here - just attempting to round out all the facts for the record, the UK 914SC was not a confilct of interest as far as piggy-backing onto the cachet of a concurrent 911 in the way the factory thought the 914S moniker was doing?

Posted by: URY914 Jun 7 2010, 05:51 PM

When in referance to a 914, the "SC" stood for "Slow Car".

Posted by: carr914 Jun 7 2010, 06:12 PM

Posted by: sixerdon Jun 7 2010, 09:29 PM

OK. Now I'll throw my .02 cents in.
I have here a copy of Christophorus No. 103, Feb '73 issue. For those that don't know, Christoforus has been the factory magazine issued every other month since the mid-50's. In this issue, it mentions that in early October, 1972, that "The traditional annual meeting of American Porsche-Audi Dealers was held in Germany for the first time." It goes on to say "Invited were all dealers........of the 14 P-A general distributorships in the US...and the P-A division of VoA, Inc."
"10 October: Conference in Ingolstadt. Highlight: the introduction of all 1973 models, particularly the 914/2.0 (two liter roadster) and Audi 80. Enthusiastic reception for these new cars."
So, what do you want to read into this? That the dealers are seeing these models up close for the first time at this time of year? Porsche has for many years introduced new models at the Frankfurt Auto Show just a few weeks before. It was the 911 RS that was the highlight, not the 914/2.0. And, you will notice that the factory refered to it then as 914/2.0.

Next is a PCA Panorama issue from 11/72 that describes ..."the introduction of the more powerful 914S, with a 2 liter engine..." and it goes on to list all the "standard equipment" (not optional as has been mentioned above) including the appearance group.

The 12/72 issue of Pano has an article by Chuck Stoddard, then PCA National Tech Chair and later PCA President. In his article he mentions the 914 2.0. No 'S' is mentioned at all. If you know Chuck, you will know that he had his own dealership in Willoughby, OH for many years before Porsche bought him out. (in the late 70's I believe) Chuck was the leading cheerleader for the 914 back in the day when many PCA members wanted to ban the 914 from PCA. When Chuck spoke on Porsche issues, people listened.

Given the time span between the 3 separate articles, it would seem IMHO that P-A and VoA were given the word by the factory to drop the 'S' from their ads at the annual meeting. Too late for the showroom brochures already printed for distribution, but remained available at the dealerships throughout the remainder of MY '73. (As far as I know, there was never a replacement.) The 11/72 Pano article was too late to rescind the 'S' since it would have gone to print by the time of the annual meeting. Chuck Stoddard, just back from that trip, very quietly cleared up the 'S' issue by just not mentioning it. It went away except for a few diehard supporters.

One more point I noticed in all of this. I have a rather substantial collection of showroom literature during that period. All 914 showroom brochures for the US market were printed in the US through 1973. After the 'S' fiasco, the '74, '75 & '76 brochures were printed in Germany. What does this tell you?

BTW, Tom, back in '72 it was Porsche K.G. not A.G.

Cheers,
Don

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 8 2010, 12:23 AM

Okay, okay Mike - I give, uncle, uncle!

Nice ! .. now you'll have folks contacting you for where you got that badge Mike!



Yeah - I thought the 911 SC was after the 914 era, but that the SC was a carry over from the 356 era - as I'd recently read a Hemmings "Sports & Exotics" article about a guy restoring a 911SC & it referred to the 356 Carrera SC as its predecessor.

I think the issue is really - if the SC had no conflict & had a Porsche historical context from the 50's, then why not steer everyone worldwide to that if it had more marketing cachet, or just bite the bullet on the 914S similarity to the 911S & embrace it as tying the two lines together for better sales? Not fact, just more of my pondering what if's & why not's!



Well - many people think it was just some made up myth, but it was in fact a marketing campaign, but not an actual model per se. Screwy but true!

Agree on sales staff & even managers, my point was just that was how they were trained to "up sell" from the 1.7, and that the brochures were around along with print ads for the 6+ months of the campaign's run.

914SC was like the 914S - a marketing term only, no badges .......

... my thought on this 914S & 914SC Badge debate is:
"Badges! .... We don't need no stinking Badges! Ha, ha, ha, ha....!!!!!


TC, when I get a chance - I'll try to photo or scan the 914SC articles or parts thereof from that 914 Portfolio book I have with them in it. It was the same deal - talked up as 914SC but cars with typical Euro VW-Porsche-914 + 2.0 badges as at my first post.



Thanx for all the info Don - just deleted repeating it here for brevity. I know it was KG then, but everyone here tends to use AG, so I was just going along with that, but probably be technically correct in these.

Clearly between what you just posted, the ads, articles, brochures & personal recollections of everybody - clearly P+A & the Brits & PKG were all over the place with the 2L 914/4 during it's first year in 73 MY!

IMHO, they should've picked something more consistent with their line-up & used either 914S or 914SC - over 914 2.0 (1.7 & 2.0 badges were only first used in 73 MY btw), so as to parallel the 911 line-up better, as well as to have the "sex appeal" of "S" or "SC" denoting the top of a particular model line - just as they did with the later 911 vs. 924, 944, 928 with similar S or SC tags, which seemed to work well for those models with no deleterious effects on the top o the 911 line S or SC. But again, just my postulating for the halibut!

Brits - where are you? We came to your aid in 1940-41, how abut returning the favor on the 914SC story!!??

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 8 2010, 04:22 AM

About the 924, it was a VW sports car that Porsche had helped design for Audi to build. Everything was set to release the car as a VW when they changed their mind so the Audi plant went to Porsche and set up the deal for them to Market it or they would close the plant, layoff workers etc. Was a watercooled car in their plans? I don't think so especially one with that weak Audi 4 cylinder engine. That the 924 fit into the hole so nicely after VW also helped to kill the 914 helped Porsche to decide to go ahead with the car. Then it sold fairly well and Porsche designed the 944 which really is a Porsche water cooled sports car.
In 74-77 Porsche was just trying to stay alive in those troubled economic times with the value of the dollar dropping like todays Euro killing German cars sales in the States. 911 sales weren't that great either then due to the cost...
Dr. Ernst Fuhrmann planned to cease the 911 during the 1970s, and replace it with the V8-front engined grand sportswagon 928 so what his plans were for the 914

Posted by: sixerdon Jun 8 2010, 07:52 AM

The "SC" badging for the 356 SC and the 911 SC were not the same meaning.
Throughout the 50's until 1965 the 356's were given model names beginning with 356, 356A, 356B, and finally 356C. The 356C came in three engine versions. The the 1600 "C", "SC" and the 2 liter 4-cam Carrera. (There was no Carrera SC) The "S" stood for Super and was added as the more powerful of the two push rod engines available. Porsche has been using the "S" branding since 1952 when they introduced the 1500 Super.
The 911 SC (1978 MY) stood for Super Carrera. The "S" still stood for Super and followed the '77 911S. But, the rest of world had a 3.0 Carrera model (not the turbo) in '76 & '77. So Porsche labeled the new 911 standard model "SC", Super Carrera.
That's it in a nut shell. 914SC?? Haven't a clue. (It did have a more powerful engine than the US version)
Don

Posted by: ME733 Jun 8 2010, 08:00 AM

..............So DOES ANYONE, ...have any idea if ALL the 1973 MY ...914, 2.0 cars were produced with all -included options-.(about 16-17 of them)......

Posted by: ME733 Jun 8 2010, 08:11 AM

............during the ...356.."A..&."B" model production there was a S-90, pushrod engine., which was the highest output pushrod engine....there were a few 356-S-90 GT cars also produced...and badged that way.--just to add a little detail to your post.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 8 2010, 04:03 PM

Just to clarify for others on Don's earlier comment above, per the Porsche+Audi brochure page below (originally posted at post #7), refers to: "Some of the other things that are optional on the 914, but come as standard equipment on the 914 S are ....", which also comes through in some other documents and ads.



The Appearance & Performance Groups (AG & PG) had been long standing "extra cost options" for the 914 line-up since the 70 MY as extra cost options or upgrades. The were included on only the 73 MY as a no extra cost items (options, upgrades, etc. - you pick), then reverted back to extra cost items in the 74-76 MY 2L models (as well as for the 1.8L).

~ That is, except that the 1000 74 MY LE's included some of the AG & PG options in their "Optional Equipment Package M-778 (Can Am Equipment)" - but provided accent color painted (yellow or orange) Mahle 4-lug cast alloy wheels instead of the Fuchs forged alloy "2 Liter" wheels of the PG; and also deleted the black rollbar/sail vinyl & anodized/polished aluminum trim and deleted the chrome bumpers (in favor of the yellow or orange painted ones) from the AG option list. However - the M-778 was still an extra cost option - not included in a base price.
(see: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/ & click at the "914 LE - Limited Edition" in the left sidebar)

Ergo, even these did not break the "extra cost option" policy from 74-76 MY, not from the earlier 70-72 MY's & with regard to the 73 MY 1.7L models.

So for clarity relative to all 70-76 MYs & models, I have been referring to them here when included on the the "914 S" 914-2.0 73 MY cars as "included options/upgrades" & specifying that this is included in the base price for the 73 MY ones only - just to acknowledge that they were both N/C items within the base price, but which were otherwise normally optional extra cost equipment upgrades on all 914s for the other models & years.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 8 2010, 04:41 PM

Murray, that's a hard one to pin down unfortunately, but I'll take a guess at it below.

Also to clarify - there were still other additional options which one could add to the "914S" fully loaded set-up - so they were not all inclusive on options beyond the AG & PG sets of options included in the base price as "standard equipment" on the "914-2.0" or "914/2.0" per the factory info. quoted previously by Don, or per the ads & brochures from Porsche+Audi "914S" as I've posted some examples here previously, which appeared to continue even in the "post-914S era" ads - which leads one to believe that perhaps they only offered lesser equipped 73 MY 2L models as a request item; or as a few later 73 MY "lower price point cars" as the prices got jacked up by Porsche over the late 73 MY, in order to have a sort of "loss leader" to pull buyers in.

Beyond the AG & PG options included under the 73 MY 914 2L / "914 S" program here in the US/Can, there were additional options which could be added at extra cost, such as adding Bilstein shocks, rear window defrost, tinted windshield or tinted glass all around (except rear window - my early-73 "914 S"/914-2.0 had this extra option), factory body undercoating, factory radio install kit, etc., as listed at Jeff Bowlsby's site (see link below). However, these would vary by car & I have no idea how many were ordered with the extra goodies.

Steve Gaglione &/or Jeff Bowlsby may be able to weigh in on whether & when the 73 MY 2L cars were ever offered in the USA/Can without all of those AG+PG options later in the Spring of 73 as perhaps what we'd call today an "option delete" to drop the price a bit as they raised the 914 2L price (1.7 too) at least twice in the Spring of 73, primarily due to the runaway exchange rates between the Deutche Mark (West Ger.) & US Dollar, causing Porsche lose their profit margin over costs as compared to the initial $5099/$5299 price for the "914 S" / 914 2.0.

The Model Numbers & Window Stickers at the two links below seem to suggest that they were available with lesser trim packages, but I read in one or more of the books, articles, etc. out there, that the early model year 73 2Ls were requested by Porsche+Audi to be "loaded" with the extra equipment to overcome a feared negative reaction to a 2.0 4 cyl. 914 at about the same price as the last 71 MY 914-6 generally available in the USA/Can.

Others like Steve & Jeff have said that the 73 MY 2L were available with less equipment fitted, so if anyone has any documentation to support that, then it would be great if you could post pix of the window sticker &/or dealer bill of sale/invoice with the equipment fitment & price info. here for all to see.

It's a real spit-in-the-wind guess at when to look for VINs on window stickers/BOSes to switch to non-loaded 914 2L/"914 S" set-ups, since 12,874 914 2L cars were built in 1972 calendar year (see chart in post #25), but some wouldn't be shipped to the USA/Can until 1973 calendar year & some were sent elsewhere - but the VINs do not track with production sequences exactly - we can only guess that somewhere around VIN ...08000 to ....10000 +/- were actual sold while the "914 S" marketing campaign & ostensibly "loaded" AG+PG 2L's were being imported.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm

VIN 4732901085 shows the $5299 for West Coast POE "914 S" as quoted in the 2 MT & R&T articles & lists all of the AG+PG - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732901085.jpg

VIN 4732913069 shows it at $5149 for the 473764 Model supposedly for PG only, but it lists the AG's center console, leather steering wheel & shifter boot, center storage & only $150 less than the Calif. AG+PG $5299 ~ so this could represent a customer request to delete the chrome bumpers/fog lights, rollbar vinyl/brightwork ~ or maybe even an error on the sticker?? - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732913069.jpg

The earlier VIN 4732911557 does similarly on the equipment, but is much less base price at $4825 & wasn't sold until 3/19/73 according to the BOS - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732911557.jpg

At VIN 4732917992 it had gone to $5649 base price - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732917785.jpg

By VIN 4732926371 (Steve's Sahara Beige) - the model # 473664 Calif. 2L with both AG+PG base price had grown to $5800, but this is a late 73 MY months after the "914 S" marketing campaign had been completely withdrawn - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732926371.jpg

But then again, VIN 4732927086 at a later VIN & similar 473644 non-CA with both AG+PG 2L model was only $5700 (maybe less as a non-Calif. 914-2L??) & it was apparently not sold until Nov. 197(4)?? - http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zWS4732927086.jpg & BOS http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zBOS4732927086.jpg

{Note - VIN 4732901954 on this list is mine, but the COA is listed under the WS column by mistake, and Jeff is still using the old erroneous COA - but I've sent him the corrected one from PCNA, which properly shows it as a "914 2.0" (not "914 S" by the way), with a GA in front of the engine case no., & the #31 interior code correctly listed as "Beige." Unfortunately I never got the owners manual - let alone the window sticker or BOS - when I bought it used back in 1975. Frankly, most of us were shortsighted & didn't worry about such details back then, & were just happy to get one to drive! ~ Live & learn! }

Given the above, we've introduced yet another version of "model numbers" which related to designating which engine, which trim levels & where to be sold for the benefit of the factory, distributors & dealerships in identifying the various models & pricing. As with the "914S" & "914SC", these were never badged on the cars themselves, but rather appeared in the window stickers (Munroney Stickers), dealer invoices & Bills of Sales, dealer/distributor pricing & order documents & catalogs, etc., - more as a form of "Inventory Control" if you will.


EXTRA INFO LINKS

For those not familiar with the 74 LE/CanAm version of the 914 2.0, look here:
http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

For those wanting more info. on all 914 options offered, read these two:
http://www.p914.com/
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

... and then go on to read the rest of the excellent 914 info linked from the main webpage of the latter above, here:
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/

Posted by: sixerdon Jun 8 2010, 05:06 PM

Sir, you are incorrect on several points. The S-90 was introduced as a 356B model from 1960-63 MY. It was not the "highest output pushrod engine". The 356 SC was from '64-'65 MY. The 356B S-90 GT's were custom ordered (extremely rare) and featured a very light weight body. I don't want to go into details on 356's here. This is not a 356 forum. I suggest you visit the 356 Registry web site and learn all you want about 356's.
Cheers,
Don

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 8 2010, 05:42 PM

Don, in the prior posts I'd mentioned that the "S" for "Super" - as used in the "The Super Porsche" ad for the "914 S" (red car & in B&W version for readable detail in my initial set of posts here), was indeed based upon & more consistent with historical Porsche naming - including the 356 S & 911S.

This book is still in print & readily available, so I'm not going to tempt fate & post pix of pages from it here, but I've given page references & titles below FYI of all, as well as the ISBN - so you can Google for the best price & get one yourself, which BTW includes the Jan 73 MT & Feb 73 R&T articles discussed & excerpts from same posted previously here, long with others.


Neither the Jan. 20 1973 "VW-Porsche 914SC Road Test" article from "MOTOR" (pg. 150), nor the later April 1975 "914 SC the Very Practical Sports Car Road Test" article from "Modern Motor" (pg. 185) in my "PORSCHE 914 - Ultimate Portfolio" book (compiled by R.M. Clark, publ. by Brooklands Books ISBN 1-85520-4320) gives any enlightenment on what the "914SC" stood for.

However, the former article says that - due to the increased cost, UK import tariffs & less perceived value for the 1.7L model at this point (late 72/early 73), that from the 73 MY on when the 2L (100 hp Euro spec ~ 5 more hp than the 95 hp US spec using the same DIN method, 91 hp was the SAE method on the USA 2L)) was available, the Brit's importer AFN Ltd. only brought in the 2.0 914SC (presumably through the end of the run in the 76 MY), except that a customer could special order a 1.7L model (presumably 1.8L 74-76). The second article was an Aussie publication testing perhaps the sole Crayford RHD conversion in Australia (aside from later "relocations" by buyers there).

.

How about "SC" for "Small Car" - like this one??


.

.

.

Also of interest in that book compiling 914 articles was - as late as March 1973 "Sports Car World" ran an article here in the USA on "Truly a Fun Car - 914 S Road Test" (pg. 158) - at the same time as "Car & Driver" ran their March 1973 "Porsche 914 2.0 Road Test" (pg. 167)!

So the former article apparently slipped by the "Porsche KG Name Police" as late as around Dec. 72 or so - or they chose to flat out ignore them, while C&D did not!!??
Sich Heil der Porsche!!!!

... sorry, I couldn't resist adding some more humor, with that mustache this guy chose!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 8 2010, 06:03 PM

..... except ......
IIRC - Porsce's Engineering branch was already exploring other water cooled engines at the time they designed the 924 for VW, so they had at least started lookng at them by then. I recall one of my bosses in early 1975 complaining about the design studies of a postulated water cooled 911 version to come, because he felt it ruined the look & lines of the 911 - he being a 60's 911 owner & short body lover.

IMHO, the 944 & 968 are not much more than an updated 924 or more refined/developed version of it, & the 928 was a German 'Vette with a back seat & the current WC Porsches are the real "NARP's"!!!! .... but then I'm an aircooled kinda guy, like you are!

BTW all others out there, the 74 MY 914 sales were their second best overall at over 20,000 (behind 27,000+ in 73 MY the subject here), but were flagging to the problematic monetary exchange rate whih Don, I & others have indicated here, & Don's comparison to the 2008-09 run up of the Euro vs. US Dollar affecting Porsche sales is a great current events parallel to what was going on in the 1970's, and the Boxster/Cayman sales now are about what the 914s' were back then - despite worldwide population growth!
Makes one think!

Interesting stuff, but mostly a sideline to the "914S" & "914SC" story.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 14 2010, 09:21 PM

SC = Sport Coupe


Andy

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 14 2010, 11:27 PM

Well now, that doesn't quite work right for a roadster, so they must've had something else in mind when the Brits coined it for the 914-2.0 to the UK!!??

SC was also used for "Super Carrera" on the 356's IIRC somewhere along the line.

Maybe the Brits just wanted to clarify that it was indeed a "Sports Car"!!??

Hey Andy - Big Thanx for getting all the move & bugs worked out on the world website & server!!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 01:01 AM

The 911 SC is a roadster?

Andy

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 02:52 AM

Andy - a Roadster is an open top car & usually only a 2 seater but sometimes with a small rear jump or kiddy or package seat - so a 914 or 911 Targa is usually grouped as a roadster, even if it's not a soft top convertable type but has a removable hardtop or hard-drop-top design.

Technically the 911/912/930 hardtop is a Coupe because of the hardtop & 2 door design (vs. 4 dr.) & no B-pillar between the front & rear side windows.

In today's Porsche models' terms - the Boxster is a Roadster, while a Cayman is a Sports Coupe, & convertable/Targa 911's are Roadsters & hardtops (permanent ones) are Sports Coupes.

My 85 325e 2dr. gets called a Coupe, but since it has a b-pillar, it is technically classed as a 2 dr sedan, whereas the old 60's-70's BMW 2.8/3.0 CS/CSi with no b-pillar were true Coupes. Additionally, some of the current b-pillar-less 4 dr. are called coupes by MBZ.

Anyway, that was the old school auto definitions when I was looking at going to Art Center or Carnegie-Mellon for automotive design/engineering in 1969-70.

Therefore you're Sports Coupe for 911SC sounds correct - it being a sports coupe.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 15 2010, 06:18 AM

.......................what a hell of a great explanation of car classification facts...

Posted by: carr914 Jun 15 2010, 07:24 AM

This starts the debate the 911 guys have had for a long time.

You know that Porsche made a 911SC Cabriolet, right? Kinda tough to have a Super Coupe Convertable.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 11:00 AM

On German cars, from the '60s to the '90s and even today:

The letter "S" has traditionally always stood for "Sport".
The letter "C" has stood for "Coupe".
The letter "I" has stood for "Injektion".


But what do i know, i just grew up there ...
Andy

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 11:56 AM

Yup TC - That illustrates the same loose application in marketing the cars - any make & any country/region - as for my BMW 325e "Coupe" ~ what is more convenient or has more sizzle is often applied.

How is it relevant to the "914 S" - well it's essentially the same approach - Porsche+Audi picked a marketing "tag" that they felt would get them the most mileage in promoting the new 2.0L 4 cyl. model.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 15 2010, 11:59 AM

Andy

What did "T" stand for? Touring or Titties?

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 12:09 PM

I don't disagree Andy, but the application was far from consistent between makes, countries, regions - let alone worldwide. A case in point for a German make of the era - well technically Austrian - is the BMW 3.0 CS & 3.0 CSi ~ yes the "i" is for the injected model (vs. carbureted), but did they intend "CS" as "Coupe Sport" or something else for the "S" - since it was clearly a Coupe.

In any case relevant to the subject matter here - what "SC" means in Germany, USA or Canada for any particular make & model, nor for prior/later Porsche models, nor our own personal theories on it, is really not the point relative to this topic on "914 S" & "914 SC" marketing programs. So myself, Any, TC, etc. are offering our guesses& other info., but not really answering the real question here.

What we're interested in knowing more about, is what the British/UK distributor of the 914's specifically meant in coining "914 SC" - so we're still missing that bit of info. from our Brit Teeaners or another member here who really knows. I was unable to find what they meant by that reference in the articles reprinted in the "Porsche 914 Portfolio" book noted above.

So does anyone out there have further info. on the UK's "914SC" marketing program??

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 12:15 PM

If you were touring, you hoped to find titties back in the 60's & 70's!

GT stood for Grand Touring or Grant Tourisimo, as well as being a specific production car race class at Le Mans etc., which generally required a minimum of 500 examples to be built in order to qualify to race there as a "Homologated" production model (vs. a limited production or a purpose built race only car).

BTW - even counting the 914-6/GT kits distributed by the dealers/distributors - the 914-6/GT fell short of homologation by some 10 or 20 +/-units!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 01:30 PM

BMW was Austrian? Huh?
You do know what BMW stands for, right?

As for the 3.0 CSI, it's a perfect example of what i said above ...

The CS was the carbed 'Sport Coupe' while the CSI was the injected 'Sport Coupe'. Or 'Coupe Sport' in this case.

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 01:31 PM

"T" stands for "Tourenwagen" or "Touring" for you English speakers ...

Andy

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 15 2010, 01:52 PM

Bavaria is in Austria, right.....
and the Black Forest is in France

Posted by: MDG Jun 15 2010, 04:06 PM

mmmmmm . . . Black Forest Cake . . . Bavarian Cream Pie

Posted by: carr914 Jun 15 2010, 04:44 PM

Not trying to argue as I don't have a Dog in this fight ( insert Michael Vick joke), but I have seen/heard refer to it as Sport Coupe, Super Coupe, Super Carrera, etc. all in the 911 Circles, therefore the debate. I will be with some Porsche Officials tomorrow - I bet I get a different answer.

T.C.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 15 2010, 05:04 PM

Ask Steve G., he knows everything.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 05:12 PM

Brain Fart! - how about Bavaria!
.... unless they really meant to badge it AMW!

Coupe Sport ... is that different than Sport Coupe from Porsche?
... or did they mean Coupe Super? ... or Super Coupe bass-ackwards??

I believe I stated the CS & CSi correctly above!

Nuff said - cuz this self-flagellation is not answering what the Brits' meant 914SC to mean!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 05:22 PM

I don't recall anyone ever using the word "Super" with regards to a "S" badge on any German automobile.

I have no idea where that terminology came from.

But i only spent 35 years in Germany, it's possible i missed a thing or two ...
Andy

Posted by: MDG Jun 15 2010, 05:26 PM

There's a woman from Hamburg who lives down the road. It's generally acknowledged she is a Super Cougar.

We call her SC.

Just sayin'

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 05:39 PM

Ummm....maybe how about S for Super in the 356 line-up, since both badging was used, and the 911S was also referred to as "Super" on that 356 carry-forward in some Porsche literature.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 05:41 PM

Hey Mike, at our ages - she's not interested in us - if she's a Cougar, cuz she want's the young bucks!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 05:43 PM

And let me guess, that 'literature' was in English?

Andy

Posted by: MDG Jun 15 2010, 06:04 PM

Doesn't matter anyway.

My wife told me I'm not allowed to have girlfriends anymore . . .




women.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 06:20 PM

I've seen it in English, French, Spanish & German, and we have people here in the US who have learned to translate German into English (myself not included), Herr Andy.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 06:23 PM

... Geeesh, these women have no sense of humor about those kind of things!

Mine wife too!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 15 2010, 06:23 PM

I'd be interested to see a Porsche document (in German) that refers to the 911S as "911 Super" ...

Andy

Posted by: sixerdon Jun 15 2010, 09:08 PM

Then you never saw a 1300 Super, a 1500 Super, a 1600 Super and Super 90, all emblems by Porsche from 1952 through 1963 B's. This was a world wide badge on the 356's, no matter what country it was exported to.
The terminology came from Porsche.
Don

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 15 2010, 11:55 PM

Andy, with all due respect to your exalted status here
- it is well time to give this line of debate a rest & stop

As I've said several times, the purpose of this topic thread is to put in info. on the US/Canada "914 S" marketing campaign/designation, and the UK's similar "914SC" marketing program/designation.

It is NOT for you and I to have some silly running argument over what the bloody general letters stood for in German, English, Swahili, etc.!

What matters here is what the Brits' meant by the SC, since the ads/etc. which I've posted clearly stated that Porsche+Audi here meant the "S" to mean "Super" for the "914 S" campaign.

So now it's time to stop.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 16 2010, 08:48 AM

..........Well my 914 ..rear logo is ..914 S...and came that way from the dealer., from the !st ..and 2nd owner... so there, I finally said it.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 16 2010, 11:03 AM

I'm no 356 expert, but any 356 Super i have seen had the word Super written out on the badge ...

On the other hand, i have never seen a "911 Super" badge ...
Andy

PS: One more point in case, you Americans call the VW 1303S beetle "Super Beetle", yet that term was never used in Germany when that car hit the market.
The 1303S was the sport edition, with such upgrades as a 50HP engine, coil-over suspension and a improved windshield/dashboard area.

Posted by: MDG Jun 16 2010, 12:31 PM

scratched off a little paint and I found this underneath!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 16 2010, 01:16 PM

Posted by: ME733 Jun 16 2010, 02:01 PM

.................My rear logo doesn"t have the bottom "super" lettering...The dealer was just way more concenious on your car., as he complied with the official porsche advertising campain, and dealer sales, and marketing materials.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 16 2010, 02:10 PM

Plz post a pic Murray!

Posted by: MDG Jun 16 2010, 02:11 PM

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 16 2010, 02:11 PM

Well gosh Andy - you win - you are truly a Master Debater!

.... moving on folks!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 16 2010, 02:13 PM

.... I think I once saw one with "Super Duper" under the 914-S!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 16 2010, 02:25 PM

For those who like to wiki-peter themselves to death , I offer their definitions for roadster, coupe and sedan ...
... pick your own poison for a definition, cuz some numb nutz will find a dozen or more instances where an auto maker goes sideways on it any-hoo!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup%C3%A9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_%28automobile%29

Read & enjoy, but nuff said here on that matter!

.

Back to the remaining Question at hand .......

.

Any Brits out there with "914SC" info, pics, ads, etc.????
... Heck - I'll even take it from an Aussie or Kiwi, since I'm not too attached to the dang fool P.O.M.E.'s anyway!

Posted by: carr914 Jun 16 2010, 08:26 PM

Andy, you DO have a sense of humor. I love you man, but I was wondering.

Now onto the new SC

Posted by: beech4rd Jun 16 2010, 08:32 PM

In the January 2006 edition of Classic and Sports Car, a British magazine, there is a comparison of the VW-Porsche 911SC and the Jensen-Healey. The SC is refered to as having the Sport and Comfort package-basically it's a 1973/4 2.0 with all the options except chrome bumpers. It's noted that Crayford charged 600GBP to convert a car to RHD.
There is a reference to Porsche Club GB 914 registry. (www.porscheclubgb.com)
Perhaps someone there knows.
The story also points out that a VW-Porsche 914/6 was more expensive in 1971 than a Jaguar E-Type V12. I wonder which is worth more now. Actually I don't- the Jag's worth considerably more.

Chris

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 16 2010, 11:33 PM

The Euro "Sport and Comfort package" could be the basis for their "SC" - and is basically similar to the USA/Can Appearance Groups' options, except that the AG includes the chrome bumpers with foglights & chrome grills.

I think that the inclusion of the 2 options packages was discussed in the 2 articles in this book which I referenced above for the UK & Aussie 1970's articles in it.



The two articles on the UK "914SC" in it are:

1. Jan. 20 1973 "VW-Porsche 914SC Road Test" article from "MOTOR" (pg. 150)

2. April 1975 "914 SC the Very Practical Sports Car Road Test" article from "Modern Motor" (pg. 185)

Book info is "PORSCHE 914 - Ultimate Portfolio" paperback book, compiled by R.M. Clark, publ. by Brooklands Books ISBN 1-85520-4320 .

Thanx for the info!

Looks like maybe an old 50's Deux Chevot (sp?) in your avatar?

Posted by: 72914S Jun 17 2010, 07:49 AM

I put an "S" on the back of my `72 because of all the `73 up grades that have been added 2.0, side shift, front suspension, and gauges. I have a hardcover repair book entitled "Porsche Service 914 S 1969-72".

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jun 17 2010, 08:59 AM

Here in Japan where I now work and live, they called the 2.0 Liter model the S model here and in fact starting in 1973 they didn't even import the 1.7 and 1.8 L cars anymore, just the 2L cars and called them the S model. Emblems were the same as the European ones with the VW Porsche emblem on back.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 17 2010, 11:27 AM

Thanks Jamie for the Far East report.

OMG!!! This changes everything! Everyone post your Japanese 914 ad pronto. We have to get to the bottom of this.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 17 2010, 02:47 PM

Thanx Jaime, yes please do post anything you may come across on the Japanese "914 S" marketing program for info. I recall reading something about that in one or more of the various 914 books I have.

Apparently Porsche KG saw no problem with that "914 S" marketing nomenclature continuing through 1976 MY in a small market like Japan, or was it only for the short 6+/- months 72-73 that the Porsche+Audi "914 S" marketing program ran here in the US & Canada?

URY914/Paul ( & ALL) - despite the fact that some posting here have chosen to make this topic thread into a debate on the validity of these non-badged model designations on the 914 2.0s & many other "side issues", the purpose of the topic is to provide historical information - yes, including ads, dealer sales brochures, etc. - as a single point where those interested can read up on what was around back then & the story behind it.

I guess we just have a lot of master debaters here, & even I'm guilty at times!

However, the O&H Forum is set up to provide such information & documentation where & when available, not to stifle it.

Posted by: URY914 Jun 17 2010, 05:03 PM

Why is your comment directed at me? I'm not debating anything or anyone. This thread won't die and it should have long ago.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 17 2010, 07:17 PM

................ury, and the other guys...Tom started this post in an attempt to obtain input from other 1972-73 -2.0 owners, and obtain facts, from them about the 914-S car designation/history..........most of you have ALREADY stated you have no intrest in this discussion , and would not make any further comments....That was about 3-4 pages ago...You guys with NO intrest , other than a compulsion to answer posts/create needless debates should just please shut up...post somewhere else. TOM as I said is trying to get input from those owners who have /had /know about the 914-S and THEIR history with their car. thank you.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 17 2010, 07:25 PM

Posted by: URY914 Jun 18 2010, 06:11 AM

....Gee, I'm so sorry......I've posted in your thread.....it is not as if you are.....curing cancer here.....lighten the fuck up......

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 18 2010, 11:39 AM

Never said I was Pal!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 24 2010, 08:17 PM

Well apparently the folks at VW-Porsche thought our 914s were BOTH "coupes & convertibles" (roadsters/cabriolets) "at the same time," according to PKG factory issued information found at at Jeff Bowlsby's 914 Canam/LE website!

<snipped from: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/ & under 914-GT at the left bar with bold emphasis added by me>

Factory poster of the VW-Porsche 914 GT Bumblebee
http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/z914GTposter.jpg

Down in the leaves beneath the image of the car, the text of the poster is as follows:

Original German text:

100000 VW-Porsche 914

Sein ungewöhnliches Konzept hat ihn zum beliebtesten
Sportwagen seiner Klasse gemacht

Coupe und Cabriolet zugleich, mit Sicherheitsbügel und zwei
Kofferräumen. Sichere Straßenlage durch den Mittlemotor.

Sichern Sie sich einen 914 aus der begrenzten
numerierten Jubiläumsserie mit

Zweifarben‑Sonderlackierung (schwarz‑gelb oder weiß‑rot).


English translation:

100000 VW-Porsche 914

Its unique concept made it the most popular sports car of its class.

Coupe and Convertible at the same time, with a safety roll bar and two
trunks. Secure road handling because of the mid-engine.

Secure yourself a 914 from the limited numbered
Jubilee [Anniversary or Milestone celebration] series
with two‑color special paint schemes (black-yellow or white-red).

<end snip>

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 24 2010, 09:20 PM

More onthe "914-S" in Japan - as well as their 74 MY "914-SL" .....

Apparently their "SL" designation comes from "Sports Limited" for the limited edition or special edition 74 MY color scheme & special equipment - comparable to the 914-LE of the USA & Canada markets, & 914-GT of Europe & the rest of the world. Ergo we can postulate that the Japanese market's "914-S" signified "914 Sport" (or "Sports") - as opposed to the USA/Canada markets' "S" for "Super" as in the ads previously posted above.

The documentation below is from Matsuda Collection info. (also found at Jeff Bowlsby's 914 Canam/LE website with the link at my prior post above, but under 914-SL in the left sidebar). Note the reference to 2.0 model as 914-S & special edition 2.0's as 914-SL (as is the "Bumblebee" which George Hussey has just purchased in Germany from the former Matsuda Collection), with importation numbers of each in the box at the bottom (added by Jeff Bowlsby to highlight 914-SL).



.

George's "new" Acquisition - "Matsuda Bumblebee" 1974 MY "914-SL"
> more pix & info here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=107777&st=0



.

A 1974 MY "Creamsicle" Japanese Market "914-SL"



.

.

Based on the Matsuda document above & Jaimie's prior posts then, any other 914 2.0 imported to Japan between the 1973-76 MYs would be considered a "914-S" in that market, but was still badged as the "standard" Euro-Land 914 2.0 models ....



The above is from a German ad, so maybe Jaime can post some pix of an actual example of a 914 2.0 "914-S" originally imported from the factory to Japan market?

.

By the way, all of these exclusive 74 MY "Limited Edition" (LE) models were likewise never badged as "914-SL", "914-GT", "914-LE" nor "(14 Canam" either - just as was the case for the USA/Canada "914 S" of the 1973 MY. However, the LE's for US/Can will be designated by a specific option package in the Kardex & COA, along with a particular special paint code under color (as well as possibly for the 914-GT & 914-SL). Although, the later special badging was considered for one prototype of the model.according to Mr. Bowlsby's excellent research).

Look at the prototype Canam tail badging below (also from the Bowlsby Canam site under Prototypes) ....



.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 25 2010, 09:06 AM

Recognition of the 914S from DPD




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 25 2010, 02:24 PM

Thanx Jeff!

IIRC, some of the pix of options brochures on your website also referenced "914S".

As you can tell from the above, I spent most of yesterday evening perusing your 914LE website & found those things I posted above relative to the Japan "914-S" & "914-SL" models/marketing names. Thanx for your hard & long research on all!

<edit add>
Apparently VW of America did too for their VPC division's AC, per this 73 MY brochure from Jeff's website:



.

... there may be others on Jeff's Classic 914 website also referencing the "914 S" model in US/Canada markets, &/or the "914SC" in UK/Commonwealth markets, &/or "914-S"/"914-SL" in Japan.

Feel free to add on posts here as an info resource on these models/marketing names, anything anyone else happens to come across!

Posted by: ME733 Jun 25 2010, 04:09 PM

.......THANK YOU ...Jeff B..,and TOM...the longer this post and thread exists the more information, reguarding the 914-S is revealed. It just takes time for research and information to come to light. way to go guys.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 25 2010, 04:41 PM

Hey Murray, do you have any documentation on yours from the original dealer about the 914-S &/or badge you mentioned before (window sticker, bill of sale, invoice, pix of badge, etc.)?

Those might be interesting to post here too.

I'd heard some folks back in the day say that their dealer invoice/BoS stated "914 S" under model - even if that wasn't the official model from Porsche KG/VW-Porsche, but I don't have anything on that in a pic or doc.

Posted by: ME733 Jun 25 2010, 05:17 PM

Tom....unfortunately the previous owners did not keep those records and information. They did keep records of parts and work performed...they were gearheads. Probably like (me) most other people you just never thought that any of that stuff would have any use or value in the future.and even so keeping up with it for (40) years. I will say the 914-S the S fits into the rear panel in perfect alignment.AND the holes in the panel have factory paint....I wonder IF the 2.0 emblem and the S emblem have the same stud/mounting points, are the mounting studs EXACTLY the same. their are no extra holes in the rear panel.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 25 2010, 05:37 PM

Funny you should mention that Murray, because I was pondering just how one might order parts from a dealer & either have them set up a "914 S" badge, or do it yer-sef at home.

The 914 & 2.0 attached as shown with 2 pins each as 2 separate badges, as in the pic below (last body shop had just de-pinned a replacement later style plastic 2.0 badge & glued it - ergo the gunk there).




So ostensibly somebody could just leave the "914" badge in place, remove the "2.0" badge - then cut off the "S" from a "911-S" badge with the one pin in the "S" & insert it into the left-most hole for the "2.0" badge, then braise to fill-in the other hole & used touch-up paint or a well-feathered spray at that area behind the badges (with both off temporarily).

You might want to look inside your rear trunk rear wall just to the left of the right taillight to see any evidence on that 2nd "2.0" badge hole having been filled, the post a few pix if you can of the inside & badge(s) outside plz.

Ditto on my records, plus I was so young & naive & just happy to have my 914, that I never went back to the PO/OO who sold mine to me to get any extra/original parts they had in their garage or their old records back when I first got it in Dec. 75. I really didn't think that I'd need them!

.... now I REALLY want them if I can track them down after 35 years - if they even still live here in OC!

Posted by: ME733 Jun 26 2010, 06:26 AM

The interior trunk paint is original AS IS the exterior panel paint. No holes have been filled. period., their are two mounting studs, on the ...S..(emblem).one above the other.

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jun 26 2010, 11:16 PM

I believe the cars in Japan did not come with an "S" emblem, instead the same as European cars with the VW Porsche 2.0 emblem and than others with the North American 914 2.0 Emblem, the cars were originally imported from Mistuwa motors.

I have this old add I found, if you look carefully near the bottom and above the Porsche logo, you will see some prices in Japanese yen...on the left hand side below the 911 prices are VW/Porsche 914 2,200,000 YEN, in the middle 914 DX 2,350,000 Yen and on the right would be the 914/6 for 3,650,000 Yen (the numbers are hard to make out)



So what would the DX be? I am guessing it would be the apperance package as this add is from the days when they were still selling the 6 model so that would mean the 2.0 model would not be out yet....maybe DX means Deluxe

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jun 26 2010, 11:24 PM

I have this scanned ad I found somewhere, it says 3 models now have been releaased in Japanese near the end of the writing...the 914 1.7, the 914 2.0 and the 914 2.0S

Here is the scan

The rest of the scans can be found here on my little site

http://www.dreamgate.ne.jp/914/ than click OLD ADS on the left hand side menu

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 27 2010, 12:14 AM

WOW! I'd love to see that!


The "2.0" on mine has studs midway L & R - L on the "2" & R on the "0" & mid-height - about like the 2 studs setup on the "914" badge to the left of the "2.0" badge.

I'm happy that I just scored a anodized metal "2.0" badge for my resto, so I can put it back to correct black anodized all around! .... no more plastic badges!!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 27 2010, 12:22 AM

I think you may be right on the DX Jaimie & Thanx for posting this ad & the next. I would've completely those prices on it with my old eyes!

I think if you look closely at George's new" 914-SL - it is badged as "914-VW-Porsche" & "2.0" below that in the Euro fashion, & I think I said that's how they were badged from what I read on Jeff's site & elsewhere about the 914-S & SL in Japan.

Here's a better shot of the badges at the back end of Georg's 914-SL, but black on black is still hard to see.

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 27 2010, 12:44 AM

I wonder what the difference is between the 914 2.0 & 914 2.0S ?

Could the 914 2.0S in this ad be a 2.0 with the Appearance & Performance (Comfort & Sport) Groups' options?

... if so, then that would "track" with the fitment of the US/Canada "914 S" promotion having those groups normally extra cost options, included in the base price - as per the 73 My sales brochures & "The Super Porsche 914 S" ad which I'd posted above.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 7 2010, 08:55 PM

How do I let you guys suck me into this...?

From the other Japanese brochure on my website, 73J2, on page 10...we may find the answer to what a Japanese 914S is. But its in code....we need a decoder ring for the last two bullet points


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2010, 09:38 PM

Because you & Dave are the guru's of all things "LE"!

Which Model Year is this for Jeff?

Hey - I think the top right bullet in the upper full frame one is maybe a tire brand just before the 165HR15, but the rest is Creek - errrr - Japanese to me!

Interesting that the 914/1.7 & 914/2.0 appear to have less bullets, maybe less equipped - as in the 2.0's without the Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' options perhaps?

I think that the 3 top right bullets in the upper full frame one may go with the 914/2.0S

PS - Thanx for digging this out & posting it Jeff!

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 7 2010, 09:51 PM

Its for the 1973 model AFAIK.

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2010, 10:07 PM

As Arte Johnson would say on Laugh In - "Veeerry interesting!"

So the Japan market appears to have marketed both a 2.0 & 2.0S "Special" with the "loaded options included" spec. under model no. 473614, with the basic "plain 2.0" being 473414 - if I'm reading your Model Nos. chart correctly.

Those would've been the other 73 MY "Worldwide" 914-2.0 model nos. as well.

Whereas, USA 914-2.0's marketed as the "fully loaded" model "914 S" would've been model nos. 473644 (49 states) or 473664 (CA only).

The chart to which I'm referring here all is at Jeff's 914 website, here:
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

These model nos. only appeared on the Munroney Window Sticker & Dealer Invoice/BoS, Distributor docs. etc. - but never on the cars themselves otherwise AFAIK.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 8 2010, 02:16 PM

914 2.0S Option List
Translation is
1. Cut pile carpeting
2. Leather Steering wheel
3. Leather Shift boot
4. Center Console
5. Fog Lamps
6. Alloy Wheels
7. Sway bars

A Japanese friend is visiting my in Suriname right now......

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 8 2010, 07:16 PM

Thanks Geoff. Anything meaningful in this text next to it?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 9 2010, 04:14 AM

.... Yeah - Thanx G.!

I emailed my brother-in-law to see if he could translate it, but haven't heard back, & don't know how fluent he was when he lived over there, let alone reading! Next step was to be a college classmate.

From what G's friend did translate above - it appears to be the Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' options packages, as with the USA "914 S" marketing program.

I still wonder if the top one in Jeff's red box above is Dunlop for: ...... 165HR15 ??

... or maybe its Yokohama!?

I think the bottom might say: "Tom, you're full of it!"

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 9 2010, 05:59 AM

Part two says:
1. Pressure cast wheels/ 165SR/hr15
2. Special Metallic Colors
3.Special Custom paint colors optional
4. Contact Dealers for more options

Posted by: ME733 Jul 9 2010, 10:54 AM

.............This post and subsiquent submittals to this post , which seem to still be comming in, has been great. The longer this topic continues, it seems more people finally find it and make important contributions..........The topic title, legend or myth of the 914-S & 914-SC , seems to me, to have been settled. There were 914-S cars produced., and their standard equipment was more lavish, complete and extensive than any other 914s, produced...Is it time that the 914-S evolves from myth ...into fact?...I think so.

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 9 2010, 03:26 PM

Thanx again to you & your friend Geoff!

Those sound like a few of the options then available on all models (1.7, 2.0 & 2.0S).

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 9 2010, 04:20 PM

Fact - that the early 73 MY 914-2.0 with all the options included as "standard" in the base price was definitely initially marketed by Porsche+Audi in the USA (& maybe Canada?) as the "914 S"!

The "Myth or Fact" line was only meant as a "hook" to pull people in, which it initially did so for some of the wrong reasons perhaps, some expecting a debate here, rather than presenting documents for what was "fact."

Initially in my first post I immediately "put to bed" that the factory never had the 2.0's badged with either "S" nor "SC" (AFIK).
- although I still caught flak from some naysayers who felt I didn't spend enough time/posts/lines on to "No" side - which I felt was a moot point thereafter - I mean "officially Nope ~ no factory badges" is no period, done & over with, fin, etc. - so why go on with it .... & I put it there first up!

As far as I can document at this time to the satisfaction of O&H standards, I cannot show that any 73 MY 914-2.0 "914 S" in the USA/Can. came from the factory badged as a "914 S" - not withstanding that Murray's "914 S" had such a badge & perhaps others too.

By the same token it's pretty clear that there are plenty of factual documents out there that the "914 S" (USA/Can.), "914 SC" (GB) & "914-2.0S" (Japan) were indeed marketing names for the "fully loaded" version of the 914-2.0 model with the Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' sets of options included in the base price of the car (first half of 1973 MY for USA/Can & 73-76 for GB & Japan).

Also of interesting note is that the Japan market went on to refer to the 74 MY LEs as "914-2.0SL" - thereby extending their usage of the "S" into yet another model variation of the 914-2.0 model line-up - also see Jeff Bowlsby's 914 CanAm/LE website & here on those models:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=107777
http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

However, I need to report a bit of a "badging oddity" on my 73 914-2.0/"914 S" which I discovered, when asking Murray about his badge(s).

On the backwall of the rear/trunk on mine, the 2 mounting pin holes for the "914" badge are flat on the back/inside face - as if they were stamped-out on the body jigs in the original mfgr'ing. process. Whereas the 2 holes to mount the "2.0" badge were definitely drilled or punched later on the assembled chassis, because they have the tell-tale protruding edges on the inside!

So now I'm wondering if that was either:

1 - Did they use a "72 MY run" body shell or rear wall panel for a 72 MY 914 (4) in my 73, & then add the 2 - holes for the 2.0 at the factory??

- since mine was an 8/72 build date & 8/31/72 by chassis no., & my COA confirms it as a matching engine nos. 2.0!

2 - or as in #1, but the holes/badge added later by the distributor or dealer, etc. after shipped from Karmann - perhaps in their rush to get the "oddball first 1000 or so" 73 MY 94's over to the USA (as discussed on Orange914's 2 topics on the early 73's)??

3 - or was an MY generic rear panel used to repair some body damage in it's 1st 3 years before I bought it in 12/75??

> I tend to think not for this latter at scenario #3 ~ since the correct rear trunk chassis no. is intact on the trunk floor, & I saw no evidence that a replacement rear wall panel had been spliced in there. On the other hand, I've not stripped it to bare metal yet, & it was repainted gold when I got it & has either a tan tinted primer (as was often done to prevent a lighter color show through on a darker color over it) - or yet another Sahara Beige repaint under the Gold, & over the original L80E Light Ivory.

So who knows!?

Anyone else ever come across later added mounting holes on their 73 MY 1.7 or 2.0????
- 70-72 didn't have a 1.7 badge - just "914", while the 6's had "914-6" in a single connected badge.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 9 2010, 10:41 PM

Tom...

You've become so enraptured by all this minutia...I think its time you run away from that early MY 73 consider a real rarity...I predict you will have at least one LE in your stable in the future.

Your friend, Jeff

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 10 2010, 12:37 AM

They're just interesting factoids & oddities Jeff!

...... now maybe a classic OE -6 when I finish my 73, hmmmmmm .........

My wife would probably kill me though!

She did like the idea of your lift, when she saw a pic of your LE's stacked in the garage, passing by on my 914 screensaver one time, & didn't flinch much when I said we'd have to raise the roof on our garage to do so!

So let's see - raise the roof, slab cuts for pads, double-wide 2 car lift .....

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Aug 23 2010, 09:09 PM

The plot thickens...Gustl is to blame. Wolfgang sent me these two ads from a British magazine...from 1971. They are also now on my Classic site under Misc Ads.




Attached image(s)

Posted by: MDG Aug 26 2010, 07:40 PM

I saw this in a picture thread in the garage of old shots from the 70's and 80's. It was taken at an auto show in Fort Worth in 1972. Thought you'd be interested . . .

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 11 2010, 03:59 PM

As Jeff said - to further muddy the 914S waters!

Here's a pic of Steve G's 1st 914 - a 73 2L & yet check out this 914, PCA & CW Guru's license plate!

I mean - if Steve says it's a 914S, then it must be right!!??

Hmmmm ..... maybe it's time to start a 914S/SC/SL Registry!!??
.... oh I just love to a bit!



.

As an added oddity, I read somewhere recently (but don't recall where now), that the early 73 MY 914s were initially delivered with only a "914" badge from the factory, and then the "2.0" badge was added later (& "1.7" for the other model), but were otherwise initially undifferentiated badge-wise from the 1.7's.

That would explain why the rear wall on my early 73 (8/31/72 chassis no.) has flat holes for the "914" badge, but the holes for the "2.0" badge were obviously drilled later & show the "push-through"/protrusion cupping from a drill (see my post #155 above).

So now I'm wondering:

1. - If anyone else with a early 914-2.0/914S also has evidence of later added/drilled badge mounting holes for the "2.0" badge?

2. - If perchance as an interim measure - did any dealers here in the USA perhaps add a "914S" badge to some of these early undifferentiated 914 2.0's??

If so, post it up here - with pix if you have any!

Thanx for the above pix additions to the saga.

Posted by: al weidman Sep 13 2010, 10:14 PM

Let me add what I think I remember. I sold Porsche's at Kendon P/A and Circle P/A from the summer of 1969 to the fall of 1975. I sold some new 912's then basically all of the 914's. We installed Porsche crests on all 914 hoods, coco mats side stripes and radios, since we could get Clarions for about $40. Per customer's request, we did interior swaps, wheel swaps, exhaust installs and there were even 914 mud flaps. We also put side mouldings on many cars.
As far as the '73 2.0 goes, we believed it was going to be the 914s. We had the brochures and were told about all the improvements and it would have a broader appeal than the 914-6, which we had a hard time selling even at a discounted $5000 even, into 1972. Now comes the interesting part. We heard that the PCA was the lobbying group to drop the "s" as they were insulted that Porsche would even consider calling a 914 an "s". This would explain the time delay and also why the Brits were not advised to stop. In those days the 914-6 was the only 914 considered a real Porsche because the chassis were shipped to Porsche for completion. Even the 912 was suspecious to the 911 crowd and also not accepted by the 356er's either. Remember most Porsche buyers were enthusiasts and knew the cars and options well. Actually quite a lot of our 911's were special ordered. When the wealthy picked up on Porsche's is when they were only interested in "Which is the best or fastest one they make?" The 914 opened up a whole new crowd. I taught many girls how to drive a stick shift. If they would have made an automatic, they could have sold a million. I just don't think they had the capacity to do it. Also VW had planned to stop the car in '74, that's when Porsche stepped up and finished the run to '76 to have a transition car to the 924 and it's connection to Audi for production capacity and maintain an entry level Porsche. BTW I was awarded the "Salesman of the 1972 LA car show" by coming close to selling a car the one of the judges. I knew the cars and loved them, still do, although I have forgotten some of the options.

Posted by: Bleyseng Sep 14 2010, 09:33 AM

yep, in those days the wealthy wine and cheese crowd were quite rude and exclusive group. PCA considered the 914's a Volkswagen and nothing more except the 914/6 which was final assembled by Porsche factory workers....really stupid I thought then and now.
As Porsche historians have noted, the 914 kept Porsche in business in those years not the exclusive and expensive 911.

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 14 2010, 12:19 PM

Thanx for the info Al!

Rick Perkins was over last Dec. to confirm the BO & HO Recalls weren't done on my 73 2L & told me about the 30 minute interior swaps the dealers did back in the day.

I'll bet you gave me at least one of my 914 look-arounds &/or test drives at Circle during 74-75!

.... but I don't recall for sure - half-zymers dontcha know!

I couldn't afford a new one right out of college in June 74, & wasn't impressed by the big bumpers & less power on the 75's - so I ended up finding a used 73 2L later in Dec 75, which is the one I'm doing the resto on now.

Good old Hans at Hans Imports in HB guided me past a dozen other 914 "dawgs" before he gave the go ahead on this one, and has worked on all of my cars since then! You may know him & his guys - Carl & Herbert are still with him, but Brice retired early with health issues.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: al weidman Sep 16 2010, 11:29 PM

Tom, I may have. I lived in Rowland Heights early on and moved to Placentia in '73. You know Bert Ohlander was there then. People pay a premium if it is found to be one of his demos. He would not drive a 914 and paid extra to drive a 911 demo. I don't know if you ever saw it, but I had a Willow Green, no group car, pen striped with flames by Shakey Jake. Sold immediately. Many more stories from the day. Al

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 17 2010, 11:08 AM

We could have a great visit sharing old stories!

I do remember one guy who would always shuffle my buddies & I off to other salesmen when we said we were interested in a 914 - probably Bert!

Are you going to GPR BBQ this weekend?

If so, look for my Dove Blue 88 Westy with the stinger rocket launcher - errr .... awning - & OEM alloys! It has white/grey "freckles" right now cuz I'm part way through a paint touch-up!

I don't recall that "flamed" 914, but my current 1980 paint job was medium over light blue hand pin striped by one of Jake's main competitors in OC, but I don't recall his name.





IMHO the 914 looks GREAT with the pinstriped fender-line, but the CW's seem to think it hurts the look & value & gets gigged at CdE events. I may wait & get black over Antrhacite or Anthracite over Silver metallics pinstriped on my resto back to the OE L80E Light Ivory, since I'll probably only seriously CdE mine while it's still clean!

After which I can "personalize" it a bit more to MY liking!

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 17 2010, 11:15 AM

Better shot of pinstriping full body pic ....



.... technically not originality, but certainly history on my 914S!

Posted by: 72914S Sep 19 2010, 03:43 PM

I added the "S" to mine as it is a `72 with all the refinements of the `73. It has sway bars, front suspension from a `73, gauge console, 2.0, side shifter, `73 doors, etc. Here is a hard cover book, reminds me of the Clymer. This is on Ebay. I have one in my collection.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 22 2010, 01:04 PM

Thanx for the post!

Interesting that this Brit book references the "914 S" & 69-72 MYs, which I suppose could be covering the early 73 MY "914S" built in 1972, but in the UK they called the 2.0L 73-76 MYs a "914SC" (I'm assuming it's a UK book due to "Autopress Ltd." which IIRC was/is a UK publisher). Very strange....!!??

FYI - A member vendor RJMII makes them with the "S" attached as "914-S" if you're interested in a retrofit. Check member vendors section here.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Sep 22 2010, 01:25 PM

Here are two more:




Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 23 2010, 11:03 PM

Thanx Jeff -

The left one lists 914SC & right 914S & both are same publisher, unless I'm looking at it wrong!?
... but they could have been for the UK & USA markets respectively.

Posted by: ME733 Sep 28 2010, 06:46 AM

.........well over the last 3-4 months, the discussions and information about the 914-S just keep coming in. this is a great thread and is providing some intresting information....I have a question,...how many do you suppose....how many 914 S cars were produced, and what generally is the recognized chassis number range.?..

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 28 2010, 07:48 PM

Hey Murry, tough question!

The best SWAG estimate that I've been able to do, is to use the 1972 production number for 2.0's of about 4800, but the total production nos. for a VIN range is harder with the split calendar years (CY) of production vs. model year (MY) production (see chart below), with some fine tuning as follows.....



The VIN range would probably be "somewhere" in the range of 4732900001 - 4732915000+/-
- by my SWAG-estimating the total 1973 MY production in 1972 CY, by deducting 74 & 72-71-70 MYs' production from the CY of them produced per year(s) before & after, as found at the link below (from the 914world's links at top of page) - leaving about 12,700+/- 1973 MY 914 1.7s & 2.0s produced in CY 1973.
http://www.914world.com/specs/productionnumbers.php

However, I have no way to isolate the number of 1972 built 2.0's for the USA - per "914S spec." (i.e.: including the Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' Options in the base price) & imported for USA production - other than to just guess at the then ratio of roughly 60% of all Porsche then sold went to the USA, & apply that to the 4817 built in 1972 -
> for roughly 2890 "914S" cars produced ~ but call it roughly 3,000+/-
- assuming a 72 CY production only as an entirely arbitrary but "best guess" cut-off point, since the marketing change appears to have occurred in the first month or so of 1973.

Not quite as exclusive as Mr. Bowlsby's 1,000 beloved 74 LE's, but about the same as the 3,351 914-6's made for the 70-72 MYs - but not nearly as clearly defined as - nor technically speaking a model - as either of those two versions of 914s.

However, as you have pointed out before Murray - I would say that one could make a case for the "914S" as being a "trim level package" - somewhat similar to, but less well defined than the 74 CanAm's (& the USA "914S" was ultimately not "factory approved" nor condoned - as were the Japan 914S/SL & UK 914SC) - as well as the "914S" being a USA marketing program.

Probably a better way to determine whether a 73 MY 914-2.0 is a "914S", would be a checklist something along these lines:

1. 73 MY 914-2.0 built before March 1973 (if not more strictly having been built within 1972 CY), & .....

2. Originally first sold "new" by a Porsche+Audi Dealer in the USA prior to March 1973 (or perhaps earlier), & .....

3. Originally Equipped from the factory with both Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' Options -
...... refer to here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm
> All of both AG & PG option sets' equipment present or evidence that it was originally there & one or more of the following .....
- a. as included within the base price, &/or
- b. shows "N/C" on the Munroney window sticker &/or dealer invoice/BoS
....... examples here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm
- c. Above original new sales docs. show Model Number as either : 473634 (49 states) or 473644 (CA) -
...... per here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm
- d. COA/Kardex does not show AG &/or PG as "Options" & the GA 2.0 engine case is recorded (call/email to COA dept. at PCNA for this info. & to order a COA) .....
..... Porsche apparently didn't record the AG+PG as options, since they were included equipment in the upgraded 2.0/914S's base price (at least initially).

Ergo, if it wasn't first sold new during the time that the USA Porsche+Audi dealers were ostensibly marketing them as the "914S' (including phase-out of that advertising moniker), and if it did not originally have all of the AG & PG extra equipment on it & included in the base price for that model/engine, then it wasn't a "914S spec." 2.0 - but rather a later 2.0 with those options added at extra cost (which some 914/Porsche experts claim happened in the last few months of the 73 MY, as prices soared due to the falling DM-to-Dollar Exchange Rate).

Also of note, the later 73 MY 914-2.0's changed over to the black plastic threshold plates - from aluminum, as well as a few of the other 74 MY cost cutting measures, so IMHO those after those changes were instituted, the later 73 MY 914-2.0's were also not as "dressed up" as our beloved early-73 "914S" models!

Here's the PCA's estimate of total production for 914s -



.

Of course, different "rules" or "interpretations" would apply to Japan & the UK.

ALL of the 914-2.0's imported to Japan & sold new there were called 914S - except that their version of the 74 MY LE was called the 914SL (from the ads provided above in prior posts & Bowlsby's CanAm website), for all 73-76 MYs.

Similarly, ALL of the 2.0's imported to & sold new in the UK were called the 914SC, for all model years 73-76.

.

Boy, I know this talk will get some CW "juices" flowing!

Posted by: ME733 Sep 29 2010, 01:48 PM

.....TOM....great information.......what were the "other cost cutting" measures taken in 1973 in the later production 1973 my.914 2.0 cars.?.......And, I would think that the 914 S , in the USA, at least, would cease to have been "sold as" a 914 S sometime in the early months, jan, feb, march, of 1973...and as a time reference the motor trend articles, and factory, dealer, approved advertising for the 914 S., and other printings, posters......As an example, as you pointed out, the black plastic threshold plates.....could be a "give away" that the chassis number may not be early 1973, or late 1972., and therefore not a 914 S. I have heard of 1973 2.o cars without front and rear sway bars, (as an example)., I have seen 1973 2.0, cars ...with.. the black plastic thresholds......Looking back over the information, and evidence collected so far, could we use the dates on the printed posters, magazine articles, purchaser information,and materials to assist in narrowing down the "time frame" of the usa 914S.?. whata think?.

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Sep 29 2010, 04:33 PM

Was the marketing campaign killed by Porsche prior to any cars being built? if not, then shouldn't the cars that were built have this designation on the COA?

The SE/Can Am cars are defined/identified on the COA, and they were simply an existing model with different options installed at the factory.

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 29 2010, 10:26 PM

Scott, the 914S marketing campaign was killed in early 1973 - about halfway through the model year, but the inclusion of the Appearance Group & Performance Group options in the base price continued at least through March, & maybe April. The ad campaign's "death" is discussed & documented with MT & R&T articles on the 914S/914-2.0 bracketing the time, in earlier posts in this thread.

One would think that PCNA - as the successors to the USA Porsche+Audi marketing arm that created the 914S marketing campaign & "trim level package" would want to note it on the PCNA's current & past COA's - but Nope! I tried with their GM of PCNA's customer service dept. to at least get them to list when normally "extra cost" optional equipment was included in the base price fitment for certain years & models - including the 911 RS & some others - but they declined.

You can see my "standard COA" below (also in the above post's link to the 914 window stickers page at Bowlsby's website - see VIN 4732901954). They required me to photo the GA case no. on my 914 before they would even "fess-up" that it was a 2.0 (1st COA only listed 914), & then I had to fight through 2 more COAs with lower & mid-level COA staff, in order to get them to correct their error on the interior color code, which they incorrectly claimed #31 was black & not beige (black is #11 on 70's dealer docs. & many other COAs)! They can be a PITA to work with, but that's how & why I ended up with the GM.

So no such luck in any help from PCNA on a COA listing "914S"!

The 3 COAs for my 8/31/72 built 1973 "914 S" / 914-2.0's:

#1 - No 2.0L Designation & Wrong Interior Color -



#2 - 2.0L Designation Added but still Wrong Interior Color -



#3 - 2.0L Designation Added & Corrected Interior Color, but No AG/PG nor 914S -



Note that PCNA & the original factory Kardex records apparently lacked the Transaxle Case No. & original MSRP on all of these, so 914 records apparently weren't all that complete & accurate from the start. Also note that they didn't add a production date until I supplied pix of my VIN Sticker & Chassis Plates in the door jambs!!!! Basically you get to do all the work & they add it to your COA for a substantial fee paid to them!!!

So there ya go - no help from PCNA on designating "914S" vehicles - nor from the Factory since they didn't condone the "914S" nomenclature, nor did they even record the 473634 & 473644 Model Nos. on the records/Kardexes, & it took lotsa time & effort on my part just to get them to correct THEIR errors!

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 29 2010, 11:37 PM

Hey Murray!

For the 74 MY they definitely went to all of the Appearance & Performance Groups' options becoming "for added cost" - whether as "groups" or individually, plus for 74 MY they went to "leatherette" wrapped steering wheels (instead of real leather), & heat pressed seams in the basketweave seat backs & bottoms (instead of sewn in 70-73 MY basketweave seats) - & IIRC they also went to a thinner leatherette uholstery material in 75-76 MYs - & maybe during 74 MY too, black plastic headlight surrounds/housings (from white in 70-73 MYs), and other items going plastic &/or more "plain jane" that I can't recall offhand right now.

About May-June-July 73 some of these changes apparently started randomly appearing on 914s of both engine types, according to many of the 914 history sources out there, as well as some late 73 2.0's that I've seen as well.

Another clue is when they went from the "diamond-back" embossing/stamping on the tops of the air cleaner boxes of the early 2.0 engines' FI's - to the banded style - but that switch may have overlapped the last portion of the "914S" campaign.

Also, many of the very early 72 built 914s of both 1.7 & 2.0 flavors had the 70-72 style chromed interior door handle surrounds & window crank bases, then eventually changed to the all black plastic varieties of both parts.

Some of these 72 & 74 era parts were incorporated into the 73 MY 2L's as the earlier style parts ran out or new parts got into the bins & were "picked" during assembly.

Also, the later 73 MY 914s supposedly started charging separately for Appearance Group & or Sway Bars, in order to hold down the "advertised base price" of the 2.0L model, while recouping costs & profit margins on the "extras" - as the Deutsche Mark escalated against the Dollar back then.

The ads, magazine articles & dealer catalogs set a general timeframe, but as others pointed out in prior posts here - they are printed in advance of actual use. Perhaps some dealers also marked their sales invoices/bills of sales with "914 S" which were in early 1973, in order to indicate that they were sold as such by that BoS date. But then again, that could just be an individual person writing it up that way out of earlier habits.

I don't think we can do better than to say it was somewhere between January & March 73 that the 914S ad campaign stopped. And therefore, those 914-2.0 models sold in the USA under that 914S campaign & "fully equipped," would've been produced some time before that timeframe & shipped to the USA, then distributed to dealers for sale new prior to sometime in that Jan-Mar 73 period whenever the 914S marketing program ended. I'd guess that was somewhere between a 30-60 day lag, based on oceanic shipping times of today.

I'd also bet that some dealers put 914S badges on some 914s with the 2.0 - if a customer requested & paid for it - &/or as a promotion to go with the marketing materials stating such. Plus they apparently added the "2.0" badges as an afterthought on some early 72 built 914-2.0s like mine, where the mounting holes for the "2.0" were drilled/added, while the "914" badge mounting holes were cleanly stamped into the rear body panel during it's manufacture at Karmann.

I find it odd - from several sources which I've read, that Porsche didn't even initially think of differentiating the 1.7 from the 2.0 models externally with badging - until after their various marketing arms in the USA, UK & Japan made the point in their respective marketing materials - which is rather shortsighted & amateurish IMHO!

My guess is that for us today, it's more a matter of a checklist & "preponderance of the evidence" to show that a particular 73 MY 914-2.0 fits enough of the features of being a 914S, such as: fitment/AG-PG Options at no additional cost, first/new sale date (in the USA) in the probable timeframe for the run of the 914S campaign, etc. For us it's a less formal process, than for the LE's with a specific model/paint code to ID them, or for the 914-6's with a different VIN & coding for the Stuttgart factory of final assembly - either of which makes them easy to ID even without the respective motor in the shell.

As I noted in the prior response to Scott above, Porsche & PCNA now either don't know whether a particular 914 is a "GA" 2.0L from the 73 MY on their Kardex records - or they're playing coy about it due to the prevalence of motor swaps in 1.7s & 1.8s. So someone could own a 73 914 which was indeed a 2.0 - & perhaps a "914S" if originally "fully loaded" & from the early 73MY sales in the USA - but not be able to prove it out.

Frankly, if they are being coy - I do NOT see how PCNA's COA Dept. forcing an owner to provide pix of their engine still in the car, to verify matching nos. & type protects anyone. Rather, it only hinders honest restorers who could otherwise - 1. identify if their 914 was originally a 914-2.0/914S, 2. identify the original engine case no. in the hopes of reuniting it with the chassis for a restoration. Certainly they have assisted some 914-6 restorers with that type of information.

Hope this helps the "Quest for the Holy Grail"!!!!

... sorry,couldn't resist - my son & I just watched Monty Python's "Holy Grail" movie again this evening!

Posted by: mrgreenjeans Feb 5 2011, 07:58 PM

another new wrinkle to the S myth / mystery.........

When I purchased my early 1974 2.0 litre, nearly 20 years ago, I knew the badging on the rear to be O.E. and it says 914 2.0
This car was basically a one owner car, passed from father to son, then me.
Sold new from a defunct dealer in Great Falls Mt. originally.

The various items in the glove box, the front trunk, and rear trunk also listed the car on dealer documents as a 914 S. Indicated in writing many times.

This car had a warranty issue regarding the replacement of the shifter knob after about 4,000 miles. It cracked and broke....It was replaced with an OE Porsche part number and recorded as such on the dealer worksheet........in Arizona ! The description of the car and the paperwork copies sent back to Porsche are in ref. to it as a Sunflower 1974 914 S, serial number 00089.

This car was an August of 1973 build ----serial number 00089.
It has numerous App.Grp. options.
4 bolt Fuchs ---5--- datecoded as July of 1973
3 Gauge Console
Plain plastic steering wheel, NOT wrapped
Center seat in tan vinyl
Embossed vinyl weld seat seams
Clarion AM-FM Radio installed
A Euro spec Blaupunkt Frankfurt sideband , in the box in the trunk
Antenna drilled on left front cowl
Full set of 5 steel mag style wheels on which the car was sitting when bought
Fully tinted windows, including the ultra rare rear defogger glass
Black Negative side trim---Porsche
NO sway bars
Black plastic clad window rollups

It has numerous carryover -73 items like the washer nozzles, and the center bullets on the tach and speedo.
This is a low mile, very original car, never being hacked or modded, so I believe the items all are properly addressed and attended to. History is complete and well documented from day one.
Curiously, it sold as a nearly year old / demo to a teacher who then immediately took it on his honeymoon through the mtns. and the S.W. It had only several hundred miles when it sold in July of 74, indicating it was a dealer demo in a small town with little sales. The family had it for nearly 20 years and 60,000 miles.

The nomenclature clearly states it, and this is original to the car I believe, as a 2.0.
The paperwork from all the Porsche dealerships it was at, Az., Ca., Mt., and ND all indicate it as an S. I believe the service and parts counters used that term interchangeably, as my own local Porsche mech. called it that the first time he saw it, and he has worked there since 1973 as lead Porsche-Audi man.

Just adding to the lore.......

Posted by: dlkawashima Feb 6 2011, 01:30 PM

I think that's the problem ..... there really is no way to specify exactly which cars meet the criteria because there really is no official 914 S.

Look at my car below. Clearly, the service record booklet lists it as a "914 S" but if you look at my car (a mostly original car handed down from father to son, then to me), it obviously does not meet the criteria laid out by Tom. It's got black bumpers, black trim around the sail panels, no vinyl on the sail panels, etc. And the build date inside the door jamb is 6/73, so it's definitely not a 914 S according to Tom's rules.

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 6 2011, 01:51 PM

I know the owner of this 914 he bought new with the airdam and black bumpers. The steel wheels are race tires it came with fuchs


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 7 2011, 10:55 PM

Interesting story.

It illustrates the carry-over of prior MY parts into the current MY in the early months of production. My early 73 and some others have some of the 72 MY carry-over items as well.

Do you mean a tan hinged center cushion on the storage box for the center seat?
... and is this matching the interior color or off-color from the rest of the interior?

It sounds like some of the dealers here in the USA clung to the 914S "tag" much longer than Porsche wanted them to!

It would be interesting to see how your window sticker (Munroney) reads as to which of those options were listed as N/C versus a charge for each and whether Appearance & Sport Groups or individual options.

Yours sounds like it had some of the Appearance Group options as individual items - but not all (e.g.: the leather wrapped steering wheel), and not the Sport Group options of sway bars, but it has the Fuchs 2L wheels.

If you look at the window stickers for 73 & 74 MYs at jeff Bowlsby's website, and you'll see the difference in the 73 MY "914S" options package, and the 74 change to charging for them all - ether as groups or individually. See here -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm

You should also be able to find the official factory Model No. on some of the original dealer sales documents & window sticker (if you have any), which will show what was "packaged" option-wise on yours (same for anyone else lucky enough to have the original sales docs. You can then look that number up at Jeff's site here -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

Thanx for sharing this!
Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 7 2011, 11:21 PM

Dave, Thanx for posting this. There has been some question as to whether or not there were any 73 MY 914-2.0's without the "S" package of "included" options, and your & the PO's posts on here have put fact to that. I think this is another case of dealers hanging onto the "914S" tag long after Porsche wanted them to stop.

If you got the window sticker &/or dealer sales documents from your PO/his Dad, then check the Model No. on there (six digits 914XXX) & look it up on Jeff's website on the prior post of the 74 called an "914S". It will tell you what equipment set it came with in terms of the "Groups" of options, remember the Appearance Group (USA) is called Comfort Group on there, and Sport Group is the Performance Group (USA).

As far as "rules" they're not "my rules", but just some suggested guidelines on how to determine it - relative to the way Porsche+Audi dealerships and Porsche in the USA advertised them back in 1972-73.

IMHO - the time of the 1973 model year it was produced & first sold new, as whether it was before Porsche's decree that the US branch stop using the "914S" nomenclature, since it was only a marketing name and special deal on the optional equipment at no extra charge. So it still has that "package" even if after the timeframe in Dec. 72 - Feb. 73 when Porsche put the brakes on the "914S" in USA ads, brochures, etc.

The guideline is really the print ads & dealer brochures listing the full Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Group's options as "included in the base price". Once they veered from that price & fitment strategy, then there's a good case for saying it's not quite as "Super" as the ad below indicated!

Here's what Porsche+Audi said was "included" for a "914S" or "Super Porsche" -





Hope this helps with your new baby's story!

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 7 2011, 11:24 PM

No offense, but I prefer the "rear end" in your avatar!

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 7 2011, 11:35 PM

Which Model Year was that one?

You could order anything at a dealer according to Rick Perkins (some of the old hands will recognize his name), & they'd swap it out in a matter of 30-45 minutes......even a full interior swap-out between two 914s!

So if it was a 73 "914S" otherwise with all the equipment offered as "included" - a buyer who preferred the black bumpers with the optional spoiler could've probably ordered it that way new, and they'd swap out the chrome bumpers to another 914 - then sell the other at an all profit up-charge for the optional chrome bumpers to boot!

IIRC that was called a "front spoiler" when sold as an option by the dealers, and was made of a flexible rubber or plastic which bent if you hit a parking stop or curb - without breaking. Those predated the 74 MY's LE Spoiler/air dam.

They were great!

I wish Mark/Mikey914 would look at making those to add to his 914rubber line at some point.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 20 2011, 11:31 AM

If you want more info on the 914SC, check out the auctions on ebay.co.uk

Sort under "Porsche 914SC"

There is a road test article which should have good details.




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 21 2011, 06:58 PM

Thanx Jeff! .... your 914 stash is amazing, as usual!

That article is reprinted in this 914 book of articles out currently, along with a bunch of others on the UK/CW 914SC & the RHD Crawford conversions. It's got a bunch of great articles from the US, Canada, etc, too, from about `69 to 80's. It's available online from many booksellers, etc.

Posted by: mrgreenjeans Feb 24 2011, 04:57 PM

Tom:


Thanks for the leads to Jeff's sites. I have used them before and they are really GREAT !

I do not have any Bill Of Sale or a Monroney sticker for this particular Porsche. I plan to have a COA by Porsche done sometime soon.

I do know from my limited research, that the car sold for around the 6400.00 figure. It also has the black front and rear bumpers.

As to the question you made of the center console :

The color and vinyl is matched perfectly to the same tan vinyl as the front seats. It is a hinged console , padded center seat with an open compartment beneath the lid/seat. It is definitely OE Porsche and supplied with the car during manufacture.

All vinyl interior pieces are original to the car.........door panels, seat trim, vinyl on console lid, etc. Nothing has been replaced as far as I have been able to ascertain, and all items show the same patina / limited amount of wear expected on a ' 74 model year car. The interior carpeting is also original and is not the nicer up-market velour, but rather the closed loop pile in German fabric showing VERY little to no fading or wear.
I believe this car was optioned out on a base pkg. car with several of the Appearance Group items, i.e. the 5 Fuchs, the dealer installed stereo by Clarion, the drilled antenne by the lot boy working that day, but also had several of the factory options such as the 2.0 Litre engine, the tinted glass all around, the rear window de-icer , radial tires---Michelin of which an orig. zero miler is still mounted on a wheel, the negative Porsche side stripe, left hand rearview mirror-only. I also have 4 foglites NOS in the Porsche boxes, but were never installed, the Blaupunkt Euro - Spec Shortwave- AM FM in its box in the front trunk, the O.E. -----replaced under warranty-- shift knob in place, but an Aamco wood shifter, and another white cue-ball Porsche shifter in its box, plus all the Factory supplied warranty books, owners manuals, and period Workshop manuals including Haynes and Bentley that were in the trunks with the NOS tool bag , jack, and extra wheels. No trim rings were on the Steel Mag-style wheels. Never were as evidenced by the lack of marking on the rim.
I am thinking when the orig. owner had the knob replaced in AZ. while on his honeymoon, he probably didn't trust the replacement, as it had originally failed at 4,000 miles, and maybe picked up a couple spares and put them in the trunk as back-ups. Why the car never had the foglites installed I do NOT know, as well as the Blaupunkt Euro Sideband.
As to how all the dealers referred to it as a 914 S on all their paperwork is also beyond my grasp, but I have knowledge of at least one more older teener owner as well as the Porsche mech. we have here locally, referring to the 2.0L cars as 914 - S's.
Plus all the service bills in my stash with it written on the invoices by several different dealers in several different states.
Porsche mysteries........

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 26 2011, 12:56 PM

Wow! You got quite a haul of vintage NOS parts with it! Those AMCO shift knobs came in Walnut & vinyl leatherette (mine had that one), with either the shift patter or the Porsche Crest in cloisonne on top. Many folks put them in their 911s, 912s, 930s & 914s - especially with the crest, and they were sold at dealers back in the day for $5.00! .... a steal today!

This is all really interesting, as it shows that the USA Porsche+Audi distributors really had the right idea in marketing the 2.0s as the "914S" - since it's stuck well after marketing program using that moniker stopped. It was also consistent with the "S" & "Super" denotations used on the 356 & 911 lines up to that time, and contrary to what Porsche feared - IMHO it did NOT take anything away from the uppmarket 911S model name.

Porsche should've just jumped on the bandwagen, made up a 914S badge - which could've used the same 2 mounting holes (keeping the 1.7 & 1.8 badged simply as 914), without having to add a second 1.7 or 1.8 or 2.0 badge & holes. Simpler & less work & parts = more cost effective for the same message - an upscale & up-engined 914/4!

I was not sure if you meant the center console with the gauges being the tan vinyl leatherette (some folks have modified to that to match their upholstery), or at the center storage compartment with the hinged seat/cushion/armrest (some folks have changed those to a non-match).

BTW - the loop pile carpet in the 914s was the upgrade back then, before the velour plus was offered - even for 911s. IIRC the 930s, 911s & 912s didn't come out with the velour plush carpet until 76 or 77 MY, which was after the 914s' swan song (the 76 MY 914s were all built in 75 then sold out to clear stock for the 924, & 912E's were in parallel in 76 MY).

My 73 2.0 has that interior color as well - which Porsche called #31 Beige (see pix below) - using #501 Basketweave or #500 Courdorouy (#32 Beige) at the seat bottom & back inserts (501 at door panels in all cases), & #502 smooth vinyl leatherette at bolsters, backpad, etc.; with either #503 Dark Tan (tan & brown speckled) or #504 Tan loop pile carpet in the upgrade option or Appearance Group. It's all NLA & hard to find, and none of the aftermarket tan/beige/saddle materials/carpets are close enough to match with the OEM ones in place - so it requires a complete redo!

FYI - here's the 74 MY interior info. from Bowlsby's website (click on to enlarge):
72 Colors & Materials Codes Chart (it was the same for 73-74, except that Dark Tan loop pile carpet was added):


74 MY Upholstery:


74 MY Carpet:

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 26 2011, 02:41 PM

Found another 914S item. This is one page from a VW-Canada publication called '1973 Specifications'. Sorry its the only copy I have and its pretty hard to read, but it does describe the '914S'.




Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 26 2011, 05:01 PM

Thanx as always Jeff!

This definitively shows that the Canadian dealers also marketed the 73 MY 914-2.0s as the "914S" as well, at least during the 73 MY.

I've heard & read in the period review articles, that the "fully loaded" 914S package of the 73 MY saved the buyer something between $1600-2000+ for the options - if added to the 914/4 1.7L model (at the lower end if as the Appearance & Performance Groups of options - or Comfort & Sport respectively in Euro/RoW documents).

Given that the 1.7 was selling for about $4000+/- at the outset of the 73 MY in August 72 - by adding the options to a 1.7 in either format, it got you up to or over the $5100+/- for the 2.0 price, so it really was a no-brainer if you wanted a "dressed up" & highly optioned 914-1.7 - so most 73 1.7s tended to be more basic stripped or minimally optioned models as the low cost option. Also, the 73 1.7 was less HP than the 72 1.7, at 76 hp 49 states or a measly 69 HP in CA - vs. the 91-95 HP for the 50 state 2.0L (100 HP in RoW) - so that pushed the popularity of the 914S - if you could find one at a dealer not already sold!

By later in the 73 MY during 1973, Porsche had to increase prices on both models and all options & accessories due to D.Mark to Dollar Exchange Rate changes, so they started offering the "non-914S" lesser equipped 914-2.0's - perhaps as early as March 73. Some of the above posts illustrate these later 914-2.0's without the full Appearance/Comfort & Performance/Sport Groups' options.

Jeff's Model Numbers page at the link below illustrate these various option group levels & standard fitments for 73 MY (& all MYs), with the model no. 473644 being the 49 state 2.0 "914S" - and now we know in Canada as well, and the 473464 being the California "914S" 2.0L (the only difference was the $15.00 CA Smog Certificate for emissions testing certified by the factory to meet CA stds.); while RoW (Rest of World) 914-2.0s were model no. 473614, but were only known as 914SC in the UK/Commonwealth markets, or 914S in Japan - and otherwise just as the "914 2.0" everywhere else, since the "914S" & "914SC" were marketed in only those specific regions/countries.

For the 73 MY "fully loaded" 914-2.0 - whether as a "914S" or "914SC" or plain ole 914-2.0, the only "included optional equipment" difference between the USA market whose Performance Group excluded the H4's, and the others was that everywhere else the Sport Group included:

> the "new for 73 MY" 4-lug Fuchs "2L style" lightweight forged alloy wheels
..... with 165HR15 tires
> F & R sway (anti-sway or stabilizer) bars 19 mm & 16 mm respectively
> H4 Halogen Headlights (not yet approved by USA DOT, so not included)

As I peer at your Canadian dealer specs. form .... I notice a few things ......
Of note in the lower right corner of it All, that there is a list of extra cost options with a fill-in line for the current prices as available from the Canadian dealers (US dealers had similar forms, I've seen them back in the day). Some were Porsche factory parts, while others were subcontracted out by Porsche W. Germany or by Porsche+Audi/VW of America for dealer sales (both were done back then), and the latter should be considered OEM/OES parts IMHO - NOT aftermarket doo-dads.

Since it's so hard to read (italics below are my notes added), they are:

Porsche AM/FM Radio (as listed in the PET & factory options)
(BTW - they also sold VW & Motorola units & with 8-track or cassette player, as most had the VW Dealership on the same lot.)
- mine had/has the VW4412 Motorola AM/FM/8-track, which may have been a subsequent upgrade by the OO/PO before I bought it 3 yrs. old in 12/75.)

Ski Rack
- I got that one & a Hardt Bike Rack from Chick Iverson P+A in 76

Porsche Racing Stripes
(I presume these were the positive side stripes at this time up to 74.5 MY, then the negative stripes became available in Spring 74 with the LE trim package.)

Chrome Tailpipe Extension
(The 914 PET parts catalog listed/lists p/n's for 914/6, 1.7/1.8 & 2.0 types.)

Leather Gearshift Knob
(I believe these were the AMCO made leather or leatherette knob with the cloisonne top badge of either the Porsche Crest or shift Pattern, and was also available in Walnut - back $5.00 any back then.)
- mine had/has the Leatherette with Porsche Crest

Mag Type Wheel Covers
(Fuchs 5-spoke look)

Rear Luggage Rack
(also by OES/OEM AMCO, as were the chromed "U-shape" tube-type F & R Bumper Over-riders)

Front air intake grill mouldings
(Porsche parts by unknown OES/OEM)

.

The second subsection are: "Options (Factory Installed)"

Tinted Windshield

Tinted Windshield and Side Glass
(COAs & Munroney window-stickers usually list this as: "Tinted Glass All Around," but it never included tinted rear glass since that was shaded by the rollbar/sails & therefore considered superfluous.)

* Premium Cast Alloy Wheels
(Technically the factory specs. & PET listed the 4-lug Pedrini & "new for 73 MY" Mahle wheels as "cast alloy," whereas the "new for 73 MY" 4-lug Fuchs 2L as "lightweight forged alloy wheels" - which were the standard on the "914S" fitment. Presumably this was done to keep the wheel choice line simple.)

Special Colors
(This would include the $150 IIRC extra charge for the "standard" Black & Metallic Paints, the #98 paint code special request colors from any other "standard Porsche color" - including 911s - $195 IIRC, or the #99 paint code "paint to customer sample" paint - which included anything under the sun for $275 IIRC.)

"*Standard on 914 S"

Here are pictures of most of these options from a 72 MY's options & accessories brochures (also courtesy of Jeff) - but since I don't have a 73 MY dealer accessory brochure, these are from various years, but illustrate the options available for the 73 MY & as noted in Jeff's Canadian dealer model specs. from above:

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 26 2011, 05:43 PM

Some additional AMCO & dealer options & accessories brochures' items illustrating the Canadian dealers specs. sheet list (all courtesy of Jeff's 914 website) .....

AMCO Accessories Brochure/Ad:


Leather/Leatherette & Walnut Shift Knobs with Porsche Crest & 901 5-Speed Shift Pattern Cloisonne:
[attachmentid=250
669]

Chrome Tailpipe Extension:


Mag-style Wheel Covers:


Front Vent Air Grille Trim:


(I'm not sure if black was available for 73 MY.)

Front, Rear, Set & Instructions of/for Chrome Bumper Overriders:
- (these may not work with 73-74 MY USA Rubber Bumper Gaurds)
[attachmentid=250
676]

FYI - there are many other 914 accessories & options illustrated at Jeff's website here -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Accessories.htm

Posted by: smg914 Feb 28 2011, 08:04 PM

I found this cardboard display in the library at Auto Atlanta last week. There was another one for the 914 and this one for the 914S. I took a photo's of both but unfortunately the one for the 914 is not legible because of the bright flash of my camera.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Feb 28 2011, 10:25 PM

Thanx Steve!

I've got a Canon SX100 (newer SX120 & SX130) which allows me to leave the flash down & still take pix for "hot" or reflective surfaces, which really helped at the Atlanta Aquarium!

Did you happen to come across any more NOS Dark Tan #503 (tan & brown speckled) loop pile carpet pieces while there at AA swapping the interior of the -6?
... esp. Driver Floor piece? PM or email me if so.

BTW - the early 70-74 colors were called Beige #31 (basketweave insets) or #32 (corduroy seat insets) - "Cinnamon" came along with the later post 74 vinyl & has a bit of brown swirl like in cinnamon bread.

My 73 MY Beige #31 - a bit lighter & more uniform color:

> It's a lighter more tan in brighter light (overcast when this was taken), and this should be similar to the original interior for the 914-6 you swapped-out.

vs.

Later 74-75 Cinnamon from Jeff Bowlsby's website - with sort of a two-tone:

Posted by: smg914 Feb 28 2011, 10:54 PM

I was looking at the COA for the willow green car 9141430241 while at AA last week and for whatever reason, it showed the interior color as Cinnamon.

I looked at a lot of carpet last week but I did not look at the pile of factory floor mats. If I were to guess, I would say what you want is probably there.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 1 2011, 12:19 AM

I'll only go through you for AA now Steve, if they have what I need at any point.

I don't trust the folks who do the COA's, cuz they really don't know the codes correctly. All too often from what I've seen & heard from many folks on here & SoCal Teeners, they just don't know the codes which change with models & years, so put what they think it is.

They initially told me mine was first sold in Sept. 73 in Conn. - even though that was a year after is was built in 8/72 & they just weren't slow selling the 2.0s in 73 MY, plus my DMV Reg cards said first sold in CA on 11/9/72 (I'm the 2nd owner since 12/75). I had to send the DMV Reg. Card pic to have them correct their poor record keeping, as well as a pic of the GA number on the engine to get them to correct it to a "914 2.0" on my COA!

They also tried to list mine the first 2 tries as "#31 Black" - even though other COAs for other 914s correctly listed "#11 Black" & "#31 as Beige" (or sometimes "Tan" if that's what the COA person thought it was). So it took me 9 months & going through the Customer Service Mgr. at PCNA armed with copies of those 72, 73 & 74 MYs color & material selection & sample sheets to get them to change it.

BTW - that's why Rick Perkins told me that story I put on the Willow-6 story post of yours - when he came out to inspect my 73 2L for the HO (battery & fuel lines) & BO (non-hubcentric wheels) Recalls. But when I told him that they just mis-named the #31, he agreed with me that they should change it to Beige, & called them for me to move it along.

I'd guess that if George sent in the 72 color sheet that I posted on your 914club story on the Willow-6 to PCNA, that they'd send him a corrected one at no charge (they're not supposed to charge for corrections). Let me know if he needs the contact info. for the GM if he gets any flak.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: tumamilhem Dec 14 2012, 08:02 AM

In reference to the recall info you claim will still be honored;
I just bought a Creamsicle that still has original plastic fuel lines. Are you saying I can take it to Brumos and they will install SS fuel lines at no cost?

Posted by: Tom_T Dec 14 2012, 10:41 AM

No - that recall only covered the engine bay cloth covered fuel lines & a full battery cover (vs. the earlier "T" shaped ones).

If your 914 never had that or another recall, then they are obligated to perform it upon demand by the then current owner, & that holds for all auto mfgrs.

The SS tunnel lines are a much later aftermarket update/modification necessitated by age of the vehicles now at +/- 40 years old, which we all would do at our own cost.

Posted by: tumamilhem Dec 14 2012, 10:51 AM

I don't understand "by the 'then' 'current' owner." I am the current owner, not the prior owner.

So I would be able to get a battery cover from the dealer? what kind of fuel lines were the replacements? how would they be obligated to do these services if the parts are discontinued? Honestly, I don't think Brumos would do it. I've had issues with their service department before.

Posted by: Tom_T Dec 14 2012, 12:31 PM

Tommy,

"Then" is just whoever the current owner is at the time

Just call the PCNA 800# & click the customer care number, & give them your VIN to check if they have record of the recall being done. If not, then they will get a service order & source the parts for you to have done at your local P dealer. They may want you to take the 914 to a dealer to have them check for the recall sticker, or send someone to your house/shop if it's not running yet (as they did for mine).

I know, I have one awaiting my 914 resto to be drivable to the local dealership here.

The fuel lines are just the rubber outside type commonly used today, and the battery cover was also an Audi & VW product. Since they sourced parts for mine, I presume they're still available in some form, maybe from current P-cars.

Federal Law requires all NHTSA recalls to be performed on any/all subject vehicles in perpetuity - forever, but only if not done before by a dealer before sold or for a PO. However, that doesn't apply to voluntary recalls by the mfgr. itself - only the NHTSA ones.

Good Luck!
Tommie Tee
///////

Posted by: tumamilhem Dec 14 2012, 01:07 PM

Great. Thank you so much for that information, Tommie!

PS - My name is Tommy and my entire life, people ask me if I spell it with a y or ie. I've never understood that and never seen our name spelled with an ie. Until now.

Posted by: Tom_T Dec 14 2012, 01:35 PM

All through high school I tried to get my friends & family to "upgrade" me to "Tom", which lasted as long as the first practice at college for the Soccer & Rugby teams, whence our Brit Coach called everyone Billy, Bobby, Jimmy, Johnny .... and ..... you guessed it - Tommy/Tommie. Since we had another Tommy, I was Tommie Tee!

My grandparents, aunts & parents all used the "Tommie". I had a 7th grade crush on a cute gal named "Tommi" - so there's another & female usage!

Feel free to email or PM me, if you need any guidance on the recall thing.

Happy Holidays!
Tom ~or~ Tommie
///////

Posted by: tumamilhem Dec 14 2012, 01:41 PM

Well at least in grade school your report cards didn't say "Tammy"

Posted by: NFBrown Aug 7 2013, 01:51 PM

Forgive the new 914 owner chiming in. I recall seeing a brand new car that said 914S on the back in Denver right when the 2.0 first came out. I suppose someone could have made up the trim from 914-6 trim but it wasn't obvious. I thought nothing of it at the time.

Posted by: dlkawashima Apr 2 2014, 03:09 AM

Here's an interesting post from over 10 years ago ..... on the Bimmer forums:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?120400-Smoked-by-a-914-6-GT-Porsche/page2

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 27 2015, 06:19 PM

Hi Dave!

I'm just seeing this Dave & that is a very interesting post.

My 8/72 build 914-2.0 likewise had the 2.0 badge added by the dealer who drilled 2 extra mounting holes - & it's a bit offline with the 914 badge - acording to the OO when I bought it way back in Dec. 75 (I'm the 2nd owner).

My 73 2L is also an early build which did have the sway bars - but front brake calipers are late 2 bleeder style & rears are early single bleeder, & it originally had the chrome window cranks & door handles of the 70-72 fitment.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 28 2015, 12:40 PM

I'm adding an update here, due to some continued bickering on another member's post in the Garage Forum asking about the the "914S"....


To clarify .... the "914S" was what's called a "Trim Designation" .... NOT a "marketing ploy" as some No-No-ers are saying here - even if that is the net end effect, just as is ANY model name or sub-designation etc. - & NOT something that "just existed on paper"!

Another similar case in point .... We're currently looking for a Cayenne S to pull our vintage trailer, and one of the early & more problematic Series 1 `06 models is on our list due to our really liking an otherwise unavailable bluish silver color (Iceland Silver) only available on the carry-over Titanium Edition version (2006.5 or 1st half 2007 MY - since the `08's started "early" with 1/07 production & sales), & which was marketed as the "Titanium Edition."

It too was "only on paper" with no special badging nor VIN nor other model designation! Those papers likewise bear PAG's & PCNA's official seal, etc., as did Porsche's world region divisions for the "914S" (P+A/VoA in NA), 914SC (UK) + "914S" & "914SL" (JDM).

It's only difference from other Cayenne S's was that it included a set "of the most popular options," had 2-tone upholstery, was only available in 4 paint colors, & filled the gap past the usual end of the `06 MY until the new revised Series 2 (1.5) 2008's were out.

In other words, it's what automakers call a "Trim Designation" - rather than a "Model Designation" - and is the same as "for the 914S" & "914 LE"!

There - I said it - broke the crystal bubble - disrespected the holy grail - demeaned the LE effete - by putting the "914S" & "914 LE" in the same sentence as "Trim Designations" or "Trim Packages"!!!!

But in the case of the Cay-S TI - Porsche grew up & grew some cajones to name it themselves & stand by the name despite protestations from others out in Porsche-la-la-land - mostly those who don't think anything but a sports car should carry the Stuttgart Crest!

Interestingly enough too - The Cayenne is & was the second VW-Porsche joint venture or joint project (or any other semantic name you wish to apply for the hair splitters) which saved Porsche's bacon financially - the 914 being the first!

Although one could argue that VW started saving bacon with the first Pre-A 356's powered by a warmed-over 1100cc VW engine & a mess of other parts from the VW parts bin to get Porsche started in the first place!

As I stated - another 914 "Trim Package" is the 914 LE or "Limited Edition" or CanAm or Anniversary Edition (?? in Europe/UK, Jeff can correct me if I have that one's name wrong) or 914SL (Japan/JDM) - which only has a differing PAINT CODE & marketing materials to distinguish the 2 limited Orange-on-White or Yellow-on-Black paint schemes with painted sail/roll-bar trim to match the accent color, painted Mahle 4-lug wheels to match, & a few of the other AG & PG options - but not all of those options were included as in the "914S" trim package!

See: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Just as the "914S" trim package was used to try to offset the feared loss of sales due to the 914-6's discontinuation & replacement of its more powerful Porsche sourced 2.0L flat-6 making 110 HP, with the VW originated & Hans Mezger/Porsche tweaked VW originated Type IV flat-4 2.0L motor only making 95 HP (91 SAE or 100 in RoW) - the "914 LE" was a trim package to try to reinvigorate flagging sales now that the 914-2.0's price had ballooned to over $7500 due to DM vs. $ inflation!

Also of note - all 3 of the Cayenne V6 gas, gas/electric hybrid & diesel motors are VW, VW & Audi powerplants respectively, which were similarly tweaked by Porsche, and all 3 were also used in the Panamera as well! Yet another VW helping hand of today!

In the "914S"'s case - the US/Canada North American branch - then Porsche+Audi division of VW of America came up with a Trim Designation for the then new & otherwise then also still undistinguished by Porsche Germany themselves as anything BUT a 914 - for the 914 equipped with the 2.0L motor + the Appearance Group (AG) & Performance Group (AG - in RoW it was called Sport Group or SG for short by me) option packages within the base price - and proceeded to market it as such from the pre-release days of early 1972 as "the upcoming model" through March-ish 1973.

So the "914S" trim designation existed in the USA & Canada for about a year or a little more, from the pre-model-release build up campaign in early 1972 to the August `72 release, thru about March 1973 of the actual MY - or about 2/3's of the `73 MY + 6 months of the pre-release build-up. Furthermore, it was consistently promoted as such by the official arm here of Porsche Germany - the Porsche+Audi division of VoA - in all types of media & within Porsche+Audi dealerships, in ALL official model brochures & collateral marketing materials, at auto & trade shows, with the automotive press, etc.

However, apparently the tail-dragging snobs at PCA were the culprits behind lobbying Porsche Germany to put the kabash on the USA/Canada only use of "914S" - which in fact does NOT negate that it existed .... nor that it only existed on paper! It just means that it was shorter lived in the USA & Canada, than in other markets & relative to the Cay-S TI, 914 LE etc. - Any more so than the Cayenne S Titanium Edition of recent times, or the "914 LE," nor of any other "Trim Designation" used by Porsche nor any other car maker!

IMHO - Porsche PAG & PCNA should in fact be recognizing any & all 914-2.0 produced from the start of the 73 MY to at least March 1973 - if not the entire `73 MY - with the model designations of:

473644 - North America (non-CA), Appearance/Performance Pkgs., 2.0L, 914/12 trans.

473664 - California-only, Appearance/Performance Pkgs., 2.0L, 914/12 trans.

- as a "914S" - including on the COA's - in the same way as they currently do with the "914 LE" is recognized in the following 74 MY!

Oh my god ... he did it .... heresy!!!!!

Likewise, they should also recognize the other similar RoW AG+PG/SG 2.0L models in the list at Jeff's link below in those markets where they had the similar "914S/914SL" & "914SC" "Trim Designations."

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

Why not do the same for the later 74-76 MY 914-2.0's with AG+PG/SG?

Because ONLY the 1973 MY INCLUDED the AG+PG/SG in the model's base price, & was marketed as a specific "Trim Designation" - whereas those later 74-76 cars' COAs will actually shown the options at extra cost on their COA's.

While the 1973 "914S" will NOT show any of the included options & otherwise has NO other model number nor other identifier to show what came on the car originally! So it's confusing as to what was actually on the car from the factory.

BTW - the 911RS & a bunch of other Porsche "Trim Package" cars have the very same problem, & Porsche needs to correct that shortfall or failing, if the COA is ever to be a truly credible document, as it is with other car makers' COAs that are more complete!

FYI - for those interested, I know of at least a few 73 914-2.0 "914S" owners who have been successful in getting PCNA to include the above model number on their COA, which can at least then trace back to the AG+PG/SG optional equipment set being included on their cars, with the help of something like Jeff's model numbers info. & whatever else "official" from Porsche to document them.

I may make a stab at that myself, since PCNA is supposed to correct their COA's at no additional charge!

(FYI for those not familiar - JDM = Japan Domestic Market - in other words in Japan itself.)

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: mepstein Jan 28 2015, 02:24 PM

Tom - tell us more. The Internet still has a couple gigs of storage left.

Posted by: Tom_T Nov 11 2018, 04:07 PM

With all due respect to some guys on here, your comments are off-base - this is NOT some "rebel US Porsche+Audi (P+A) dealers' conspiracy" theory BS!

Why do people keep perpetuating this false info that there was no "914S"!?
The "914S" is NOT some rogue US Porsche+Audi (P+A) dealers' conspiracy nor any other internet conspiracy theory BS!

It is a well documented FACT that there was a sub-model "trim package" called the "914-S" authorized by Porsche USA, VWoA, PAG & VW-Porsche (note that it was still the JV at the point of late 1972 - early 1973 & Porsche only bought out VW from the JV in 1974) -- collectively "Porsche" below, in order to sell the USA new 2.0L -4 as the "914S" in the USA, Canada & Japan; & as the "914SC" in the UK (+ Australia & New Zealand possibly too).

In the North American market the "914S" moniker was dropped for the "fully loaded" trim package model nos. 473664 (CA), 473644 (rest of N.A.) which included both the Appearance Group (AG) & Performance Group (PS - also called "Sport Group" - SG) groups of options within the base price of $5299 for the "914S".

Initially Porsche only sold the 2.0 -4 as the fully loaded "914S" here - their biggest market worldwide at +/-60% of all sold - in the 1973 MY, in order to attract buyers of the less successful selling & higher priced 70-72 914-6, which it was replacing. So they were offering more optional goodies, included within a lower base price than was the last of the base/stripped 914-6, with 95 vs 110 HP, but better Torque lower down in the rev range (i.e.: more tractable & more responsive throttle at low revs in street use, AX & tight tracks).

While the other sub-models with either AG, PG/SG or base equipment & no options &/or the preceding with customer selected options were available in dealerships in the ROW markets - & by order here in the USA/Canada (North America or N.A.) - they were not imported to the USA to sit on dealer lots here in the USA during the first half or 2/3s of the 73 MY.

Dealers here just didn't want them because they were afraid to have lesser equipped 2.0s sit on their lots unwanted & perceived as stripped down 2.0s, & taking away from the slow 1.7 sales due to their detuning to meet the CA & 49 state emissions standards (in CA the 1.7 dropped to just 69 HP, & 72 HP for the 49 state versions) - since they were still worrying about the hurdles of replacing the prior 70-72 914-6s.

In March 1973, Porsche (all of the above subsidiaries) had to raise the base price of the loaded "914S" trim package to $7299, but they still wanted to have a lower priced 2.0 to advertise - so they switched their advertising to the "914 Sport" which had no AG group options but kept the "Sport Group" PG option group - basically a stripped down 2.0 with sway bars & the Fuchs 2.0 wheels as model no. 973764 (CA) & 973744 (rest of N.A.) in order to advertise a 914 with the 2.0 at $5299.

Dave K's Orange/Black 73 914 Sport is an excellent example of the "914 Sport"

Porsche had to keep a base 2.0 model in that price range in order to compete with Datsun 240Z/260Z, MGB/GT, Fiat 124, Alfa 2000, etc. in roughly the $5-6k base price range - while the economic currency exchanges had the West German Deutche Mark (WGDM) escalating vs. the US Dollar (USD), which caused VWoA/P+A to raise the US price of the fully loaded "914S" up $2k from $5299 at their Aug/Sept `72 introduction - up to $7299 by Mar/June `73.

This was the time that then President Nixon took the USD off of the gold standard, & allowed it to "float" in the currency markets against all other currencies - because being fixed by gold backing was draining our gold reserves, as holders of other currencies were drawing gold on their USD holdings, as their "home currencies" de-escalated against the gold backed USD. His action in 1973 was also due to the economic effects & high inflation caused by the first Oil Crisis in 1973.

At that point, Porsche added the other trim packages for the USA as well - including the "914 Sport" with Sport Group/PG only - because the WGDM was rapidly escalating vs. the now "floating" USD in currency exchange, causing all Porsche models 914 & 911 to rapidly escalate or lose money on the currency exchange rates. It wasn't so much that production costs & parts were going up that much, but rather that the USD was dropping vs. the WGDM, the British Pound, & other stronger of the world currencies - so they got less dollars per WGDM each month. So those old world history & economics classes that you had to take in high school &/or college actually do/did have relevance to your car hobbies!

It was an ECONOMIC pricing decision to stop advertising the "914S" as their halo price & value leader - & switch to the "914 Sport" as their "price/value leader" to get people to come into the showrooms, & to hopefully buy a 914 - hopefully a 914 2L - & hopefully buy up & pay EXTRA fro the options &/or pay the full increased $7299 price for the "914S".

However, the "914S" model lasted the ENTIRE `73 MY - not just part of it, & they used the sales brochures listing the "914S' for the entire 1973 MY - & never reprinted them with the "914 2.0" until 1974 MY!

Note that those "914 Sport" models were the last sub-model numbers add to the `73 model numbers list at Jeff Bowlsby's link below (by model number sequence from the factory - which is how Jeff has them listed as well), which is indicative of the later addition of that "sub-model trim package" set-up being added later in the 1973 MY - in early/mid calendar 1973.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

So according to the Porsche & P-Dealer sources with whom I've been further researching this "914S" situation, where much of the above facts come from - it was changed as part of the VWoA/P+A/Porsche's USA marketing plans reacting to the WGDM inflation against the USD - in order to keep an entry level 2.0 914 at $5299, while raising the price of the fully loaded "914S" so as NOT to lose money on them with the AG/PG/SG options included - AND apparently NOT the oft touted conspiracy theories that the USA PCA members with 911S's forced Porsche to change it, or that Porsche had never approved the "914S" & forced the change - they are NOT true!

In fact - the "914S" was a trim package used in multiple world markets of the USA, Canada, Mexico (collectively North America as served by VWoA & their Porsche+Audi dealerships) & Japan, & "914SC" in UK (& possibly in Ireland, Australia & New Zealand markets as well).

In the automotive business it is no different than the other major 914/4 "sub-model trim package" (or "Trim level", "variant", etc.) - known as the 1974 MY Limited Edition/LE or Can-Am listed on Jeff's models listing as model nos. 974644 (CA) & 974664 (rest of N.A.) - wherein certain of the options, 2 special 2-tone paint schemes with Mahle "Baby Gasburner" wheels painted to match the accent color, black painted trim, anti-sway bars, etc. The primary difference was that the factory limited them to 2000 examples (1000 in each color scheme) & were produced to commemorate Porsches wins in the Can-Am Race Series (there was also a similar 2-tone painted 1974 sub-model trim package" with a dash badge called the "Commemorative Edition" to commemorate the 100,000th 914 built at about the same timing as the USA/Canada 914 Can-Am LE).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_level_(automobile)

However, both the earlier 1973 MY "914S"/"914SC" sub-model trim package, & the following 1974 MY "Can-Am"/"Limited Edition" sub-model trim package, were both approved by Porsche, & both were intended to help boost sales of the 914s with a "Halo" model which would draw prospective buyers into their dealerships. It is very common for automakers then & now to offer special sub-model trim packages on a new or updated model in it's first year - as Porsche did with the "914S"/"914SC" & still does with recent & current models.

Another difference between the two, is that the 1974 MY "Can-Am"/"Limited Edition" sub-model trim package was only offered for a few months in the later 1974 MY in Spring of 1974 - whereas the prior 1973 MY "914S"/"914SC" sub-model trim package ran for the ENTIRE 12 months of the 1973 MY - so I'd say that it's hard to try to say that it was some fleeting marketing ploy by rogue US P+A dealers - as some erroneously claim!

While R&T and some other publications back then had reported that the home office didn't like the "914S" moniker - which was conjecture on their part - the reality was that Porsche needed to offer more other 2L 914 sub-models with lower price points & less options included in the base price, than the fully loaded "914S".

However, Porsche still wanted press coverage on the full line of 2L options/trim levels, so they stopped exclusively presenting the "914S", as they had in the first half or 2/3's of the 1973 MY - & they eventually just referred to it as the "914-2.0" in articles & press releases (R&T had referred to it as "914/2" for their March `73 article, which was by their own admission made up by themselves - not Porsche).

To be clear - there never was a "914S" factory badge for these 1973 914 2Ls, but some dealers did make some up to put on the earliest 73 914s because they only had "914" on both of the 1.7 & 2.0 powered models. By the same token - there NEVER was a "914-LE" badge or other markings for the 1974 "Can-Am/LE" sub-model trim package either - although Porsche did experiment with a "Can-Am side stripe, which was never used on any production LE; & by necessity they had to put special paint codes on the Karmann Plates to signify the two-tone paint scheme used on the LEs - making them easier to ID at this late date, but it's just a paint code, NOT a sub-model badge.

> These 914-S ads ran from around Aug. 1972 through about March 1973, when pricing changes forces VWoA/P+A/Porsche to raise their price from $5299 to $7299 -
[attachmentid=674548]

.

> Note the extra options included in the "914S" Sub-Model Trim Package from BOTH their print ad & North American/USA P+A Dealer Sales Brochure -
[attachmentid=674553]
[attachmentid=674554]

.

> Note that the the above "914S" ad was not replaced with the similar ad with the very same picture, but with the "914 2.0" instead, & without the "included '914S' options listed as included until 1974 MY -
[attachmentid=674549]


> However, the USA P+A dealer sales brochures continued to list the "914S" in their specs & included AG+PG/SG optional equipment until the end of the 1973 MY in July `73 - i.e.: for the ENTIRE 1973 MY -
[attachmentid=674550]
.

> And the "914S" was regularly displayed at USA New Car Shows by Porsche/VWoA/P+A throughout the ENTIRE 1973 MY - This is at the Fall 1972 Ft. Worth Car Show -
[attachmentid=674551]

.

For those interested in more history on the "914S"/"914SC" - I did this topic a while back -

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=107851

.

Hopefully we on this 914world board can stop perpetuating misinformation on the "914S"/"914SC" - & instead correctly characterize them as what they were:
The well priced "loaded with options" introductory 914 2L Sub-model Trim Package, which was priced out of serving as the Porsche+Audi dealers' "price leader 'halo' car" 914 2L, due to world financial, currency economic conditions causing it's price to rise by 38% in just 7 months on the market from $5299 to $7299 (West Coast POE, Ease POE was slightly less).

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: bbrock Nov 11 2018, 09:23 PM

Tom, this finally clears up a mystery I've had with the way my '73 was optioned. It is obviously a sport group car but I was always confused how that was so if AP & PG were included in the base price for 73 2 liters. The completion date of my car is 4/5/73 which fits perfectly with the timeline you outlined here and finally explains how I came to own a 73 Sport Group car. Thanks!

Posted by: Tom_T Nov 11 2018, 09:55 PM

Hey Brent,

You should get with member Dave Kawashima from the SF Bay Area CA with the Orange/Black 73 914 Sport that I mentioned, cuz he has some good info on them. IIRC his is a June 73 production one, & IIRC it's almost all original (or restored to such). It's a great example & I think he has all or most of the window sticker & other original paperwork on it.

Jeff Bowlsby also has some 914 Sport example window stickers here too (among others, if you've ever wondered about base & option prices) -

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/WindowStickers.htm

Unfortunately you'll have to look at them all in 73 MY to find out which ones were 914 Sport, but you can quickly check the Model No. at the top of the WS &/or Dealer Invoice to find the actual SG/PG only 2.0s.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

914 Sports are the last 2 model nos. in 73 MY.

Happy Hunting .... errr .... researching!

I started this "914S" research basically to get the original info for the resto of my 73 "914S" to do it back to as it was originally from the factory - before I bought it from the OO in `75.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: bbrock Nov 11 2018, 11:05 PM

Thanks again Tom! I found an SG window sticker and BOS on Jeff's sight. I've looked at those before, but never in cross referencing the model number. I wonder what the chances are of getting the sport group option added to my COA. Seems the smoking gun would be the sway bars since those had to come from the factory. Given that it has ALL of the options in the PG package and NONE of the ones in the AG package, it seems kind of obvious. I have the warranty/service booklet for the car, but unfortunately, they didn't fill out the model number slot.

If I had an original window sticker, bill of sale, or the COA accurately listed the options the car came with, I'd put it back together exactly as it came from the factory/dealer. But since the COA is so vague and I have no other documentation, I've decided to take advantage of the lack of info to add a few option to improve comfort. These are: tinted glass, rear window defrost, leather wrapped wheel, and intermittent wiper. I may even add fog light some day as a mountain driving safety upgrade, but no immediate plans for that. I figure if there is no document that says it's wrong, why not?

Posted by: Tom_T Nov 12 2018, 05:21 PM

Brent -

You might have an outside chance of getting added, if you can find some of the old period "914 Sport" ads & dealer docs to send along with photo documentation of the PG/SG equipment - which only consisted of F & R sway bars (must have both), & the 2L Fuchs Wheels.

However, all of those could be added by later owners &/or by the original selling P+A dealer, as well as all of the items you listed as add-ons. It was very common for a customer/buyer to come in, ask for something on the 914 that they'd picked out, & then the dealer swapped &/or stripped those items off of another 914 on the lot.

There was one "914S" owner who got his listed as a "914S" on his COA & was written up in Steve's Ninefourteener magazine (member vendor on here), so maybe ther is hope for your "914 Sport" & other "914S" owners.
However, PCNA typically refuses to list included options for even the 911RS cars!

Maybe you could at least get them to list the appropriate CA or 49-state Model Number on your COA - if not the "914 Sport" moniker itself!?

Same idea for the "914S" owners out there .... !? ... now I'm thinking about my COA!

BTW - Rick Perkins (now PCNA's Nat'l Service Manager or such) who was with local SoCal P+A dealers back then told me that they could set 2 914s side-by-side & do a complete interior swap in 45 mins for a color change back then!

And that was in addition to the dealer scam of stealing the Fuchs & other allow spare wheels from the 914s & 911s/912s, then substituting a cheaper steel wheel spare, then selling off 4 of the stolen spares as a set for 100% profit. It was dealer theft & fraud so I call it that!

How do I know? Well, when I got mine from the OO - the spare had been stolen, they'd substituted 4 Rivieras for the 2L Fuchs, & literally cut-off the fog lights, took the dash switch leaving a hole & put on non-fog bumper grills. The OO had remover=d the center console for more room for his 2 kids taking them to school etc (they had #3 on the way, ergo why selling) - but stupid me never went back to get it from him, along with all of the original WS, BoS & other documents & manuals.

Ahhh the bliss of be in our 20's & stuck on stupid!

I actually liked the 5-spoke look of the Riviera wheels, & didn't miss the fogs or center console - but in recent years I've had to go out-of-pocket at much higher 2010's cost to reacquire those items for my resto back to as it would've been from the factory/dealer without all the other BS.

Those discrepancies were what got me on the path to fully research the correct "914S" fitment, the results of which I've shared on here.

As for your proposed upgrades - just try to do them so that they're reversible - & safely store all of your original parts from the changes - including window glass, just in case you or some future owner would want to put it back to original fitment.

The fog/driving lights have the harness connectors & mounting points on all 914s & the fog/no-fog grills are interchangeable, so just use them - but go with the white "Driving Lights" rather than fogs for you mountain driving upgrades, & consider swapping up to H$ or or sealed beam Halogen headlights with higher power 80/100W bulbs (you may need additional relays for them IIRC) also; the intermittent wiper is just cutting the wiper switch slot for that indent & getting the relay (Jeff Bowlsby sells them); leather wrapped steering wheels are an easy swap, as are the switch/relay & rear defrost window, while all of the other glass to tinted is a bit more work but doable.

GoWesty.com sells a contemporary T2 Bus high powered headlight upgrade for the 7" diam. headlights like our 914s of that era, which should work on our 914s too; & there used to be some member vendors & Porsche parts houses which sold them for our 914s. The fog & driving lights used/refsto'd come up on here, 914club, TheSamba, etc. all the time, & they still sell both the Porsche foglight grills, & 914Rubber makes repros.

A few years ago I changed our 88 VW Westy to their 80/100W + relays high power headlight upgrade, plus the factory fog/driving light option dash switch & brackets - but with smaller/brighter Hella "Micro FF" driving lights - from the OEM 45/55 dime headlight bulbs for similar reasons - & it made a HUGE difference!

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Posted by: bbrock Nov 12 2018, 08:52 PM

I thought I read somewhere that the performance group also included the center console with gauges but now I can't find where I read it. Maybe I made it up. I have yet to find any brochures or literature for 73 MY that lists the equipment in the Performance/Sport group. I have found 74 MY brochures that list PG as including: front/rear sway bars, alloy wheels, and front spoiler. That last is weird and makes me think the marketing dept. got the sport and LE models confused?

At any rate, my car came to me with:

- front/rear sway bars
- 5 fuchs 4-spokes (the reason I shelled out the whopping $500 to buy the car in 1985)
- center console.
- black bumpers
- plastic steering wheel
- single horn
- perlon carpet
- no sail vinyl (and no filled holes along the bottom)
- no fog lights

Good idea about trying to get the model number added to the COA. I just wish I had better documentation. I think the best evidence is that my chassis has front/rear sway bar mounts from the factory. My understanding is that cars ordered without sway bars didn't have those. Then it becomes reasonable that since the car had the other options in the performance group, it must have been a sport.

Yes, if I add fog lights, they will actually be driving lights. That's what I run on our DD and it really helps when the snow is flying in the air. You'll be disappointed, but I'll probably be running these headlights http://carmagic.us/led7.html It's just a matter of safety first for an easily reversible mod. Not only do we have weather to deal with, but every critter imaginable to watch out for. I also committed the sin of deleting the side markers during my resto. The decision was made easy by a DAPO that mounted one marker with sheet metal screws and caused the surrounding area to rust out. I had to patch it anyway and it was easier to weld both sides solid and get rid of those ugly things. I did make a template first so I can put them back if that ever becomes important. After all the work I've done on this rust bucket, punching those holes and painting the edges would be nothing.

Tinted glass was kind of a decision made for me. I pulled the original windshield decades ago to donate to one of my other teeners. It was badly pitted anyway. Getting OEM glass shipped out here would run $800 and not a good investment since Montana murders windshields. Our DD is on its 3rd windshield which is also cracked. The only practical option is Chinese glass which is only available tinted which is fine because I very much prefer it. Another member was passing my way and offered to deliver parts, so he brought me 2 doors and a set of tinted side glass. I do plan to store the original although there are some deep scratches in the side windows so might not be worth the hassle.

I already built my own intermittent wiper harness while I was restoring all my harnesses, so I'm set there.



I also have the rear defroster harness and switch and have fished it through the snorkel with the main. The glass is in Petaluma and will come my way eventually. My general feeling is that since Porsche didn't care enough to accurately list how this car was optioned on the COA, then whose to say what was original? Therefore, I have decided to take liberties to option the way I like within the limits of what was available as OE at the time.

Posted by: mepstein Nov 12 2018, 09:07 PM

Steve deleted the side warts on his original six and recently sold the car for $130K so I wouldn't sweat it.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845

Posted by: bbrock Nov 12 2018, 09:21 PM

I noticed that too. I've also noticed some of these cars selling for top dollar have hood badges . I guess tastes change though and I have a backup plan in case ugly warts become all the rage in a future market.

Posted by: Tom_T Nov 12 2018, 09:23 PM

Brent,

I've listed the options in the AG & PG/SG in posts above & some of the pix from dealer docs, if you want the full listing. Also note that 74 MY was different from 73, & they charged extra for all options & groups.

They also may have added a spoiler to the PG after the LEs came out, because there was an options set which one could get in 74> which allowed one to set-up with many of the Can-Am/LE options on other 914s for the "look" - including both Fuchs 2L & Mahle Baby-gasburners with the Orange or Yellow painted centers). Jeff B's 914LE website has some info on that option package too (IIRC it included painted wheels, bumper, side-script, black painted trim & LE front spoiler).

I don't know for sure if the "914 Sport" came with the center console + PG/SG sways & Fuchs. It also could've been a factory add-on option, something that the original selling dealer added for a customer, or a later PO added console - as it was a very common thing to add.

Check with Dave K on whether the center console was included or an extra option.

Don't worry about your changes & mods - it's your car. I'm just providing the O&H info as best I can, &/or referring you to those who do like Jeff & Dave.

The LED headlight option is a good one - if it's the good quality one with good "throw" of the lighting (some cheaper ones are bright but don't throw out far enough), & you also have to be careful about the heat generated by the LED power converters (??) at the base, because they run hot & often more so than either of the old school halogen or incandescent types.

I converted our Westy's other exterior & some interior lights to LED for better brightness, but there weren't/aren't units yet AFAIK that work with the reflectors of the rectangular headlights in our T3B Vanagon Westy.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Dec 15 2018, 12:35 PM

Additional Info on the Demise of the 914, from another topic reply:

Matty - as others have pointed out, it was a more complex demise, than just not competing with the 911s.

As with the 2003> VW-Porsche JV vehicle collaboration Cayennes saving Porsche's financial butz - nearly in bankruptcy from 1996-2004 -

Likewise, our 914s' 118,000+/- in sales over 6 model years 70-76 (69 counting full 70 MY) saved Porsche's financial butz, because they could no longer sell large numbers of 911s, 912s were too expensive to build & sell at an entry level - read high sales volume - price due to their production costs & prices increases from their inception in `64. In fact the ongoing sales of 64-65 356's masked this economic reality with their parallel sales during those 2 MYs.

So why get rid of the butz-saving 914s? There was a combination of reasons:

1. Overpriced Body Shells from VW/Karmann Plant:

The VW reneging on the original "handshake deal" on the price to sell the 914 bodies to Porsche to produce the detuned 110 HP 914-6's put their sales pricing too close to the the nicer fitted out & higher 125 HP 911-T in 70-71 MYs - so most buyers never looked beyond that & shifting foibles, & would pay the extra +/- $500 for a 911-T - so it never really got rolling.

Also note that the 916 was never implemented because it's price was almost that of the comparably equipped 911E/911S of the time, & it would've certainly cut into some 911 sales with a comparable HP motor, while the 911 sales were also declining due to the currency escalation problem discussed below. The 916 project was discontinued after the first 11 prototypes, which were actually very well received in the market & automotive press, but the pricing of $14,000+/- was a question mark - given the oil crisis driven global recession of the mid-1970's - also made worse in the USA by the end of space race & Vietnam War driven production after 72-74>.


2. Continued High Body/Vehicle Pricing for 73-76 914s:

This higher than expected pricing continued for all 914-4s from 74> MYs - after Porsche took over the VW-Porsche JV - so it thereafter also increased the production cost basis of all 914s thereafter - as seen in the ever increasing prices - making the 914-2.0s also too close for comfort relative to better fitted-out & more powerful 911-Ts (& other base 911 models) - despite the by then recognized better handling 914s.

(Note that - IIRC - Porsche didn't begin factory racing with the 911s, until the 914-6 was waning.)


3. Currency Escalation Driving up Import Prices:

Added to the above, the W. German Deutche Mark (DM) was rapidly escalating against the US Dollar after then President Nixon took the dollar off the Gold standard, & it was allowed to float in the world monetary markets, in order to help keep USA products more competitive - but that likewise made other imports including cars more expensive after the dollar was no longer set by the US (Fed & Treasury Depts.).

This can clearly be seen in the rapid price escalation of the 73 Porsches of all types 914 & 911, & carrying on into 76 MY & beyond - further complicating Porsche's competitiveness in the USA, where 60% of their cars were then sold - which also affected their cars from 77> MYs, leading to their later financial viability crisis which the Cayenne solved.

I recently described in a reply to another similar post (maybe one of yours) as to how this price escalation to DM vs. dollar currency escalation was the actual demise of the "914S" nomenclature in the USA only (Note that both Japan kept "914S" & the UK kept 914 SC" thru to 76 MY), which I recently also added to my "914S".

It was NOT the much alleged concerns of PCA 911 owners, nor of Porsche concerns over competing with their top of the line 911S - think about those - who would EVER think a 80-95 HP 4-banger 914S was competition for a 911S with upwards of 180-210 HP - really, REALLY!? - but ignore logic & facts to continue believing in those urban myths if you must.

Quite simply - Porsche could no longer keep selling a fully loaded 73 "914S" at it's original Aug 72 - March 73 price of $5299 (WCPOE), so they increased it to $7299 Mrch - June 73, & introduced a more basic "914 Sport" with only Performance Group options as their new "price leader 2.0" at $5299" for March - June 73.

Thereafter for 74> MYs Porsche further reduced their pricing risk by decoupling ALL options & option groups from ALL 914s, & made everything for extra cost - & they increased the cost of the options/groups - while the 2.0's base price stayed the same as what the prior 73 MY fully loaded "914S" had been increased to of $7299 - but now without ANY options!

Both the 75 & 76 MYs saw increases to base prices & options - & were all now higher than what the pre-73 DM escalation 911 prices had been!

There were 2 exceptions to offering options for a somewhat of a deal price - but both were low production number - thereby limited their losses - the 74 MY 914 LE/CanAms (1000 each color scheme) which actually only "included" a few options, & the close-out 76 MY 914-2.0s - which was done to get rid of them ASAP before what was to come next - & even then they were adding to the base price for the supposedly included options.

In reality at he end of the 914's run - you had no choice in 76 MY 2.0 options it was however they were built & shipped, & you paid the price - most of the ones that I looked at before buying my used 3 year old 73 "914S" were all priced at $8500+/- & over, with the anemic CA-Smog choked 78-80 HP!!

If you were of car buying or dreaming age then - you know what I mean about how ALL of the cool imported sports cars went way out of reach for most of us!

If you look at the production/sales numbers for the 914s at the info section here, you can see how this currency driven price escalation bled off 914 sales to just a few - after peaking in 73 MY - as it also did with 911 & 912E & 930 sales. Monthly sales rates on all Porsche models would show that drop off starting in March 73, as it did with ALL import car makers' vehicles.


4. Another Failed VW/Audi-Porsche JV Enters the Fray:

As they say on the TV commercials - "Butt Wait!" -

VW, Audi & Porsche were all concerned over being able to meet with aircooled engines, the soon to be & ever increasing smog control limits of California (60-70% of the USA Sales, which still ran 60-75% of worldwide Porsche sales = 36 - 52.5% of worldwide sales to California) - plus the other 49 states under EPA were soon to adopt the California emissions standards too nationwide.

Ergo, Porsche began designing their watercooled V8 for the 928, & VW/Audi started designing 4 & 5 cyl. inline watercooled engines for their Golf, Fox, 3000, etc. models - & they commissioned Porsche to design a VW/Audi sports coupe using their new I-4 watercooled motor.

VW/Audi went so far as to schedule complete retooling of the Karmann plant to build theri new sports car/coupe - but then backed out & cancelled the product. You will recall that ALL 76 MY 914-2.0s were built prior to Dec. 75, so that the Karmann plant could be retooled for that new car, & Porsche back-filled by installing the 2.0 Air-boxer in 911 shells - creating the short lived 912E produced at their Stuttgart plant's 911 line for +/- Jan - July 76 for 76 MY only.

Porsche had also taken over the cancelled VW/Audi sports car/coupe, & began producing it as their own 924 in 77 MY on.

So the 914 had no production line after Dec. 75, & there was no possible way to continue it's production, because all of the tooling had been worn out & never replaced - even if they wanted to move it to another plant from Karmann.


There are other factors which came into play for the 914's demise, but some urban myth about Porsche not liking the 914 to save the 911 wasn't one of them.

In fact, Porsche itself thought that the 911 line would be replaced by an all watercooled line of 924, 928 & other spin-off models by the early 1990's, & the last aircooled 911s were produced in 1993 MY due to the problems with aircooled engines not meeting the by then 50 State smog regulations.

However, Porsche did react to customer lash-back at their original watercooled planned replacements, & then went on in the mid to late 1980s to start design of the waterboxer six later used in the 996 & 986 lines of 911s & Boxsters/Caymans - with the 996 & 986 lines initially sharing full body/mechanical front end designs from the windscreen forward in order to save on costs - which were introduced as their diminishing sales 928s were phased out in 95-96 MYs.

As with most business issues - & car manufacturing is & always was a business - it was never some "911 jealousy" - but a complex set of world economic & automotive regulatory issues.

Happy Holidays!
Tom
///////

Posted by: davep Dec 16 2018, 04:37 PM

Great write-up Tom.

Posted by: Fritz356 May 6 2020, 07:26 PM

As the value of these cars rise and people love them more and more, the S will be talked about more and more and recognized as unique in its own right even if there wasn't anything unique about it besides the time frame it was produced and sold. Check out my attachment. My car was sold as an S roadster on the paperwork and that is what Mr Tobin thought he was buying.
To me its an S....

BTW in 67 they made fewer 911 non S cars. My 67 will some day be coveted as more rare than an S with "S oil tank and guages" iisted as options on the cardex as well as everything else the original owner could think to possibly order... Way more rare... Does that make it worth more than an S or any less fun to drive? I suppose that depends on how you drive and who the buyer is and what year we are living in...

So back to the 914... It just adds to the reasons to love a particular car...
I love both of mine because first and foremost they are fun to drive, which I do as often as possible.

Second I do all my own work and wrenching on them as a hobby as well as driving them.

914S perhaps.. 911S defiantly! Regardless all Pcars have a soul and can be loved for water reasons the current caretakers want.

I love my early 2.0 S Roadster.

Brian

Posted by: Tom_T May 7 2020, 06:40 PM

Cool Brian, Thanx for sharing!

I see that Mr. Tobin traded in an Olds Tornado - what a change! My Aunt had a string of Tornadoes every year they were out.

He also bought his about 3 weeks after my OO bought mine here in SoCal, in early Nov. `72.

I remember the dealers talked about the 914 2Ls as 914S in that time period, & all of their dealer brochures referred to them as 914S - so the invoice doesn't surprise me.

In the recent article about the history of the 914 which appeared in Panorama & has been posted on here, they referred to the two prototype 914-8 built for Messers. Porsche & Piech as the 914-S, so that may also explain why Porsche in Germany didn't like the VWoA Porsche+Audi Division here referring to the new 914 with the 2.0L 4 as the 914S. However, they never objected to either Japan using 914S, nor the UK using 914SC in their advertising etc.

I think there is still more details about the 914S story in the USA & Canada to be found, if there were anybody still around & familiar with it from both the USA P+A & Germany sides, to get the full details of what transpired, & why they had no problem with Japan & UK using 914S & SC.

Cheers!
Tom
///////