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914World.com _ Originality and History _ 2013 Parade: Went over my Score Sheet
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 9 2013, 09:54 AM
I am a half-year 914 guy, the car spends a lot of time in winter storage here in Northern Michigan. I bought my 1974 1.8 in 2007, helped along by the generous advice of 914world members.
Now the Parade is only 40 miles from my house, I am thinking of entering the concours.
Immediate questions involve the completely unoriginal radio, wheels that have been repainted, and front and rear sways that I had installed when Brad Mayeur did the original work on it.
Otherwise it is a very clean car. I am wondering if I am ineligible for a "survivor" judging because of these mods?
My original thread with pics:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=69564&hl=
Thanks for your help.
Paul
Posted by: Jasfsmith Mar 9 2013, 12:38 PM
Absolutely! If not the Preservation class, enter the Touring class. Loose the coco matts, tidy up your support material and go for it!!
Posted by: Garland Mar 9 2013, 02:11 PM
What parade are you speaking of?
And when where, please?
Found it
The 58th Annual Porsche Parade
June 23-29, 2013
Grand Traverse Resort and Spa
Traverse City, Michigan
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 9 2013, 04:28 PM
Paul,
Preservation is Survivor/Originality & is 75% original per our Zone 8 rules, which AFAIK are the same for national Parade.
This applies to paint/body trim - so replaced rubber/seals & wear items are okay in most cases, along with some paint touch-up. Tires also are wear items, but a set of 5 period correct Michelin XZX 165SR15 tubeless ones will add to your competitiveness.
And it applies to interior - so some carpet replacement - the radios were mostly all dealer or owner installed aftermarket, but you may want to find a period correct radio to swap out for competitiveness sake too.
Similarly for the engine bay & underside engine & non-engine ends/halves. Aside from cleaning up & detailing everything, look for mismatch details like one bold silver & other gold zinc plated, new vs. old period correct items. You'll just have to deal with a possible challenge or few points gigged for the sway bar addition, but maybe not!?
Your pix look great, so you'll have a shorter work list to prep, and a few local concours will help you fine tune for Parade.
While I've not been around PCA & judging long enough to have done a Parade, the guys I know who have say they're basically looking for anything to gig cars on in order to cut down the big fields in national events (vs. local & regional PCA concours).
So you'll need to prep to pristine, detail & check to exactness (local/regional usually won't look at originality items, but ask any judges there what they look for at Parade where the do judge originality), and document everything you can on your 914 - then hope you can stack up well against the other models in the running - as well as the 914s.
You should be able to find some upcoming & past Parade judges in your area to help you go over your 914.
Good Luck! 
Tom
///////
Posted by: TJB/914 Mar 10 2013, 12:15 PM
I am a half-year 914 guy, the car spends a lot of time in winter storage here in Northern Michigan. I bought my 1974 1.8 in 2007, helped along by the generous advice of 914world members.
Now the Parade is only 40 miles from my house, I am thinking of entering the concours.
Immediate questions involve the completely unoriginal radio, wheels that have been repainted, and front and rear sways that I had installed when Brad Mayeur did the original work on it.
Otherwise it is a very clean car. I am wondering if I am ineligible for a "survivor" judging because of these mods?
My original thread with pics:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=69564&hl=
Thanks for your help.
Paul
Hi Paul, looking forward to seeing you at Parade & your beautiful 914.
I am also entering my 914-4 at Parade in Traverse City this year. March 12th-14th is registration day. I know my car is not in the Preservation class so I am thinking about entering in "Street" or "Restored" but don't know where I qualify???
Any advise from the 914 gallery????? Can you explain what they do in each class??
What Class??? 
BTW: My car was restored about (12) years ago and it has some cleaning issues to get in Parade shape. I hate cleaning so it will only get a dust & buff. I will be there for the fun with my 914 friend so it really does not matter, well a little bit.
Tom
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 10 2013, 04:12 PM
I am a half-year 914 guy, the car spends a lot of time in winter storage here in Northern Michigan. I bought my 1974 1.8 in 2007, helped along by the generous advice of 914world members.
Now the Parade is only 40 miles from my house, I am thinking of entering the concours.
Immediate questions involve the completely unoriginal radio, wheels that have been repainted, and front and rear sways that I had installed when Brad Mayeur did the original work on it.
Otherwise it is a very clean car. I am wondering if I am ineligible for a "survivor" judging because of these mods?
My original thread with pics:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=69564&hl=
Thanks for your help.
Paul
Hey Paul!
I'd go for the Preservation class with that one.
Super detail everything, then do it again. It's fun, though it can be a little stressful if you really expect to be in the running.
Most judges of the smaller classes are not out to hammer every little nuance, but stay with the cat when it's judged. Know everything about the car and be ready if a judge asks you about originality of any items. Judges don't always know everything about these cars, though they are expected to. If they question something, respond truthfully. If you are gigged for something you know is a bogus gig, and the scoring is tight, you can protest. But you'd better be 100% certain and be able to prove it.
The last Parade I competed in I was told by an interior judge that my window cranks were non-original because they were chromed instead of black. I informed the judge that I was the original owner and that the cranks were as delivered in '72. He still gigged me anyway, and told me in no uncertain terms that he knew more than I. I had brought pics of the day I took delivery, as well as a '72 Porsche brochure, clearly showing the chromed cranks in both cases. When I showed them to him his fce got very red with anger, but removed the gig. Still lost by 0.3 points but felt better. I'll not divulge the name of the judge, but he should never have been judging 914s. When I chaired the '93 Parade Concours I made certain that people knowledgeable in the various models ONLY judged thos they knew. Unfortunately, the judging is now controlled by PCA National, and with the classes that combine models it requires judging knowledge of all models, and there very few that are capable of doing that.
Just be serious about it, and have fun at the event. Oh, and take a lot of pics!
I did the Traverse City Parade last time it was there, and rate the whole experience number 2 of my Parades - Aspen being the best.
P
Posted by: 914runnow Mar 10 2013, 06:05 PM
" I will be there for the fun with my 914 friend so it really does not matter, well a little bit. Tom "
I like the above quote.........
have fun and let the chips fall where they may.....
don't let the "Concour Madness" get to you....
sure judges will want "Q/Tip mentality"....
have a good time with that....but to remove sways and radio change out 
.
IF you Really want to win this...Give John Paterek an email....he was at Keystone
did you meet him up there???
I know he will enjoy your 914 as is.... 
...just know that the repaint on wheels
won't kill yah...all these Barrett Jackson cars have been restored.....
just being there is half the fun, as above quote......plus damn it is Really in your
backyard....the expense to transport is next to nil.....
your car will get plenty of Oogle's and Ah's.....
and stories will abound from onlookers...I feel that is worth more than a ribbon..
Who know's..maybe you will come away with a 
Rx
Posted by: bulitt Mar 11 2013, 06:03 AM
If you love your car, are passionate about it, know every little detail about it, and its a driver not a garage queen and obviously well maintained you will make some judges happy.
Posted by: Jasfsmith Mar 11 2013, 09:34 AM
"plus damn it is Really in your
backyard....the expense to transport is next to nil.....
Rx
"Transport"? Drive it!!
Nothing I hate more than completing against a car that arrived on a trailer, and especially those that travel to the event on a trailer and uploaded a few miles from the site!!!
I think it would be great if all entrants were required to drive a mandatory tour the day before the event. <grin>
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 11 2013, 02:35 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I'll post again when I'm closer to getting it out of the winter storage garage.
I will absolutely drive it there although nothing can compare with Jafsmith driving from ?Maine? to San Diego? No Death Valley for me!
Maybe I'll go with Preservation. There's precious little that's been done to the car and under the coco mats are great carpets. I'll try to get in touch with the son of the original owner and ask him a few questions.
The sway bars are in for good, resprayed in the rear trunk after installation, and I believe the front will be harder to detect. They are original equipment, installed by Brad in 2007. Also some spray in the front compartment where someone had tried to jack the car up from the middle and the paint had peeled. I mean, what good is rust for no reason? Oh, and the engine compartment was resprayed. My original pics showed two little eyebrows of corrosion above the battery terminals.
I will show pics of the wheels. They were repainted in an off-silvery shiny color and are not appropriate. I have Fuchs alloys in decent-not-quite-concours shape that are on the car now. The steel wheels have the 165 tires, the Fuchs the 185's.
Paul
Posted by: Ferg Mar 11 2013, 03:47 PM
Cool Paul. I'm hoping to be there as well.
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 11 2013, 04:39 PM
There is a slight (repeat, slight) chance that we'll stop my the Parade as oglers. Iwould really love to me the bunch of you in person.
Janice & I had such an enjoyable time at the last TC Parade. The cherries will be in season. The peninsular wineries will be ready (like a mini-Napa tour and they're pretty good), the Sleeping Bear dunes, the lake, etc, etc.
This really is a beautiful part of the country in the summer.
We'll see.
Posted by: Ferg Mar 11 2013, 04:48 PM
There is a slight (repeat, slight) chance that we'll stop my the Parade as oglers. Iwould really love to me the bunch of you in person.
Janice & I had such an enjoyable time at the last TC Parade. The cherries will be in season. The peninsular wineries will be ready (like a mini-Napa tour and they're pretty good), the Sleeping Bear dunes, the lake, etc, etc.
This really is a beautiful part of the country in the summer.
We'll see.
That would be cool, I'm sure a thread for a meetup will start as we draw near.
I'm pushing hard to move our summer MI trip a couple of weeks earlier just for Parade.
Posted by: 914runnow Mar 12 2013, 04:53 PM
"plus damn it is Really in your
backyard....the expense to transport is next to nil.....
Rx
"Transport"? Drive it!!
Nothing I hate more than completing against a car that arrived on a trailer, and especially those that travel to the event on a trailer and uploaded a few miles from the site!!!
I think it would be great if all entrants were required to drive a mandatory tour the day before the event. <grin>
Sorry lost in translation...next to nil is a gallon of gas to get it there,
and one to get it back...
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 12 2013, 06:27 PM
I entered the concours in the "touring" class.
Looks like they have "full," "touring," and "street."
So, "touring" is more of the "survival" class?
Paul
Posted by: Cupomeat Mar 12 2013, 07:48 PM
Glad you are showing it.
If my 914 looked as nice as that one, I'd show EVERY chance I got.
Don't think I am making the parade this year, but if I do I look forward to seeing your car!
Posted by: John Jentz Mar 13 2013, 08:56 AM
Go to the Parade site and download the Parade Competion Rules, PCR's, read em and read em again. All will be revealed.
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 13 2013, 10:42 AM
I feel a bit silly because I cannot find the competition rules. Can anyone provide a direct link please?
Paul
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 14 2013, 10:07 AM
I'm in the middle of the registration process now as well.
I'm trying to figure out what class to put it in!?!?! 
SMI - PF03F - Full-All Series Street-Modified?? HELP A NEWBIE!!!
Posted by: porbmw Mar 14 2013, 11:35 AM
Dunno Eric
Seems to be in a class of it's own...... 
Let us know how that all works out!
Posted by: TJB/914 Mar 14 2013, 12:00 PM
I'm in the middle of the registration process now as well.
I'm trying to figure out what class to put it in!?!?!
SMI - PF03F - Full-All Series Street-Modified?? HELP A NEWBIE!!!
Eric,
Put your GT 914-6er Chrome Yellow in full restoration along with my Chrome Yellow 4-banger. I think 914-6's & 914-4's are judged together. I just want to park next to your beauty.
Tom
Attached image(s)
Posted by: John Jentz Mar 14 2013, 02:40 PM
I feel a bit silly because I cannot find the competition rules. Can anyone provide a direct link please?
Paul
No direct link, go to pca.org and log in. Scroll through menu bar at top of page: Regions/Forms & Documents/ scroll down to Parade/2012 PCR's
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 14 2013, 07:01 PM
I'm in the middle of the registration process now as well.
I'm trying to figure out what class to put it in!?!?!
SMI - PF03F - Full-All Series Street-Modified?? HELP A NEWBIE!!!
Just pick a class that favors rear fogs!
Kidding.
I hope to be there as a spectator for a change. No competing, no judging. Relax & enjoy. Watch the judges, critique the gigs, etc. Getting too old to stress about it.
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 14 2013, 07:29 PM
"plus damn it is Really in your
backyard....the expense to transport is next to nil.....
Rx
"Transport"? Drive it!!
Nothing I hate more than completing against a car that arrived on a trailer, and especially those that travel to the event on a trailer and uploaded a few miles from the site!!!
I think it would be great if all entrants were required to drive a mandatory tour the day before the event. <grin>
Sorry lost in translation...next to nil is a gallon of gas to get it there,
and one to get it back...
I know what James is talking about. There are teams, and I mean "teams", that "build" the cars for Parade concours, enclose trailer them to within a couple of mile of the event, & offload them as "driven to the event". Basically, they are cheaters. Lost to one of them the last time I competed. You'll never stop them, and a tour before the event won't help because they usually bring a cadre of lemmings to clean up.
Lessons to be learned are:
1. The big bucks will usually win, but not always.
2. Enjoy the event & know that you are the best prepared.
3. PCA Parade is the "bigs" for Porsches. Losing is still a cred.
4. Stick with your car when it's being judged! The judges only "think they know" everything about a 914. If Paterak is judging run away, unless you can trump him with doc's. If you really believe that a judge has made a mistake, talk to him. If you're convinced that you are right and can prove it - protest. Last resort & you will probably be labelled for it if you lose.
5. If you feel the judges are happy with your car, and that you may be in the running for a class win, or BOS, leave towels on the engine to keep ambient dust, etc. from accumulating. f you are called to move your car to a different area for re-judging DO NOT forget to remove those toels FIRST (ask me later how I know).
6. Enjoy the wonderful lunch provided. Make new buddies.
Nothing like it for a Porsche guy/gal.
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 15 2013, 03:25 PM
If Paterak is judging run away, unless you can trump him with doc's.
I know Paterek from back in the 80's. I called him before buying my orange beauty, he used to work on my black car that Riley Rogers has now (long story).
Regarding my orange car: I sent him pics of the car before I bought it and he told me "no, it costs too much." I bought it anyway...
As far as the "trump with docs," does this mean a COA is an absolute must-have item? Bring all my receipts? How much will I get dinged for having installed sway bars that were not originally on the car?
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 15 2013, 06:50 PM
If Paterak is judging run away, unless you can trump him with doc's.
I know Paterek from back in the 80's. I called him before buying my orange beauty, he used to work on my black car that Riley Rogers has now (long story).
Regarding my orange car: I sent him pics of the car before I bought it and he told me "no, it costs too much." I bought it anyway...
As far as the "trump with docs," does this mean a COA is an absolute must-have item? Bring all my receipts? How much will I get dinged for having installed sway bars that were not originally on the car?
Paul
Paul,
You MUST bring the COA! Original things like Monroney sticker would be good, but not mandatory. You will most likely get dinged for the stabilizers, but it shouldn't be huge and you can make up for the loss by super-detailing other areas.
Examples: Steam clean the carpets. I don't care how clean you think they are, you won't believe the dingy crud that is removed by steam cleaning.
Take q-tips and polish to the blades of the foglight grills. Easy, use a slow hand.
Remember those procto swabs you sent me? Use a couple to swab out the tailpipe at the event.
Use q-tips again to clean all dust/dirt from all vents, as well as the drids on the speaker grills..
Never, ever use Armorall for anything! There are good products out there (Griots) to maintain the patina of rubber parts. The bumper tops should be free of slick stuff and dimples. If they have dimples, contact Mikey.
Don't use anything but warm mildly soapy water on your seats, if they're vinyl. Keep the patina.
Jeez, the list goes on.......
Posted by: Jasfsmith Mar 16 2013, 02:46 PM
If Paterak is judging run away, unless you can trump him with doc's.
I know Paterek from back in the 80's. I called him before buying my orange beauty, he used to work on my black car that Riley Rogers has now (long story).
Regarding my orange car: I sent him pics of the car before I bought it and he told me "no, it costs too much." I bought it anyway...
As far as the "trump with docs," does this mean a COA is an absolute must-have item? Bring all my receipts? How much will I get dinged for having installed sway bars that were not originally on the car?
Paul
COA is a must. All the original documentation and manuals that came (or should have). My Six being a Euro version, I had a two page sheet (several copies) typed up listing all the differences, with references to validate my claims, and yes it made a difference. Definitely be present when they judge, provide the lead judge with the info, and answer any and all the questions, and then step back.
It might well to have a white towel on hand to either throw into the judging ring, or cry into after they find dirt on the bottom of your door hing pin. <grin>
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 17 2013, 06:48 PM
If Paterak is judging run away, unless you can trump him with doc's.
I know Paterek from back in the 80's. I called him before buying my orange beauty, he used to work on my black car that Riley Rogers has now (long story).
Regarding my orange car: I sent him pics of the car before I bought it and he told me "no, it costs too much." I bought it anyway...
As far as the "trump with docs," does this mean a COA is an absolute must-have item? Bring all my receipts? How much will I get dinged for having installed sway bars that were not originally on the car?
Paul
COA is a must. All the original documentation and manuals that came (or should have). My Six being a Euro version, I had a two page sheet (several copies) typed up listing all the differences, with references to validate my claims, and yes it made a difference. Definitely be present when they judge, provide the lead judge with the info, and answer any and all the questions, and then step back.
It might well to have a white towel on hand to either throw into the judging ring, or cry into after they find dirt on the bottom of your door hing pin. <grin>
Some may take what James says as a joke. It is not. A PCA Parade concours is the most hardcore there is. The judges are not necessarily looking for grime, but if they find it you get gigged. It's parts of the process of saying "my car is the best". They are bound to prove you wrong, or show you where you can improve. Everything on the topside of your 914 should be perfect - focus on that! That's where you'll score the best points.
On the underside become anal after the topside is PERFECT. Clean everything you can reaxh underside. You won't get it all because your arms are shorter than the best judge ( hated being judged by Jon Lowe because he had the arms and fingers of a pianist!).
This isn't meant to be easy! Requires committment and many hours of work to be the best - but you CAN do it! Keep focused & don't let weariness get in the way. You have the car. You have the tools.
Win it!
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 17 2013, 06:52 PM
Read through everything I could and went with Modified Touring... also read that I can change before the event. Have a call into Mike Joffee to see what he suggests.
Tom - I think I need to be in a modified class (obviously). I say we play to be on a tour together or, create one of our own. "Lunch in Leland" tour??
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 17 2013, 08:15 PM
Pat, thanks for the inspiration.
Eric, Ferg, Tom, hope to see you guys this summer.
My COA is on order tomorrow...
Paul
Posted by: TJB/914 Mar 18 2013, 01:40 PM
Read through everything I could and went with Modified Touring... also read that I can change before the event. Have a call into Mike Joffee to see what he suggests.
Tom - I think I need to be in a modified class (obviously). I say we play to be on a tour together or, create one of our own. "Lunch in Leland" tour??
Eric,
Good choice with Modified Touring class, I picked full restoration, thinking there will only be a few cars in that class. Hoping for no more than (3) cars so I can get 3rd. place.
Looking forward to seeing everyone. Tom
Posted by: rnellums Mar 19 2013, 03:37 PM
I'm trying to decide whether to enter mine or not. The topside is good, and the car is very original, but the underbody has scale that won't be easily remedied in time for Parade. Maybe the street class?
Posted by: orthobiz Mar 20 2013, 05:45 AM
It is not helpful that the 2012 Salt Lake City Rules are the ones posted on the PCA site, not the new ones including the current classes for the concours. Anyone see an updated set of Concours Rules & Regs?
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 20 2013, 06:46 PM
I'm trying to decide whether to enter mine or not. The topside is good, and the car is very original, but the underbody has scale that won't be easily remedied in time for Parade. Maybe the street class?
Just do it! You have to start sometime. You'll have fun too!
Posted by: orthobiz Apr 11 2013, 05:43 PM
My Cert of Authenticity arrived. Man, is it underwhelming. Basically, intermittent wipers, the 1.8 liter motor, and Phoenix Red color.
Car is coming to my house next week no matter what. It's in the bubble storage right now and is 10 miles away, a muddy connecting road to the pole barn and then salty roads. The weather here has been atrocious.
BUT, my buddy has a car trailer and will ferry my car home next week if necessary. Then, I will have LOTS of posts and will ask for LOTS of advice. Thanking everyone in advance,
Paul
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Apr 11 2013, 07:22 PM
Paul,
You may already be anticipating this level of preparation for the Parade, but this was typical "get-ready" prior to display at the concours location...........
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Apr 11 2013, 07:23 PM
....and......
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Apr 11 2013, 07:30 PM
...and .......(this was Pat Garvey when he had a 914 that truly ran and that he really cared about) 
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: orthobiz Apr 11 2013, 07:43 PM
Thanks for the inspiration! I hope to put up some pics in the next week.
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Apr 13 2013, 07:24 PM
Guess I have a trailer queen. I am looking at the (finally) published rules. I thought Preservation was Preservation but there's a "low mileage" preservation group! And to make it worse, I'm in with the 356 and 911 people!!
Check it out:
"Preservation Group (Divisions 1 – 5) – This group is
for automobiles 21 model years or older and reasonably
driven. Emphasis is on preservation of the automobile,
maintained in its original condition. A
demerit is to be given for automobiles not driven to
the Parade. In addition, judging of automobiles in
this group will take into account the overall “utilization”
of the Porsche as intended by the Porsche factory.
Ownership and preservation of an automobile
with reasonable mileage shall be considered superior
to an automobile simply “stored” to avoid usual wear
encountered from normal use. Proof of authenticity
such as Kardex (build data sheet), Certificate of
Authenticity or original Monroney Label (window
sticker) is required for the automobile to be judged
and will be examined by the judges. Other documentation
may be used as proof of authenticity if, in the
opinion of the judges, such documentation substantiates
the automobile’s authenticity. In the case of
two automobiles being equal in the opinion of the
judges, length of ownership will be considered. The
judges rating for the chassis (if judging is requested)
will not be altered due to the presence of fresh road
dirt or signs of recent use.
(b.1) Preservation Group (Division 6) – Judging for
this division is to be the same as C-5.1.(b) except
that the judges are not to penalize the automobile
for not being driven to the Parade. This division
is for automobiles with less than an average of
1000 miles per model year age of automobile. No
penalties will be given for the low odometer
mileage or for the fact that these automobiles are
basically non-driven and mostly stored."
Posted by: orthobiz Apr 13 2013, 07:36 PM
So, in trying to decipher the rules, there are "Classes" for "low mileage" vehicles. Mine has just under 25000 miles.
Classes: PS08T 1949 - 1976 356, 912, 911, 914 (all)
Then, there are six "Divisions," one of which is for the 914:
Divisions: PIV All 914 including Limited Production
It's like the animal kingdom phylum and class and genus and species, etc.
There are four Groups under which fall the Divisions followed by the Classes.
I am confused!
Paul
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Apr 13 2013, 09:22 PM
So, in trying to decipher the rules, there are "Classes" for "low mileage" vehicles. Mine has just under 25000 miles.
Classes: PS08T 1949 - 1976 356, 912, 911, 914 (all)
Then, there are six "Divisions," one of which is for the 914:
Divisions: PIV All 914 including Limited Production
It's like the animal kingdom phylum and class and genus and species, etc.
There are four Groups under which fall the Divisions followed by the Classes.
I am confused!
Paul
I too would be confused, baffled and bewildered by the various and sundry classes, divisions, and groups that the rules attempt to catagorize.
Me thinks that the folks who write the federal tax laws are somehow involved here Good luck, Paul.Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Apr 14 2013, 05:54 PM
Safe in the bubble, I deflated it and uncovered it today. Still too much snow and wet outside to drive it home.
The bag is deflated...
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Apr 14 2013, 06:00 PM
The Certificate of Authenticity makes no mention of a radio, which I believe is common as many were dealer installed. Whoever installed my radio used a non-original antenna. And then they tightened it too much. So under the wide cup against the fender is a small non-progressive crack in the paint. A standard (Hirschmann) lets you see the crack so I've left this antenna on.
But a bigger issue is the radio. It is an awful, awful Kenwood removable face monstrosity.
I have an original style radio that I could install but it only has one wire coming out of the back...
How about a radio delete filler for the dash and hope no one notices the speakers or antenna? (just kidding)
I will post the radio later...
Paul
Actually my radio thread is here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=109964
Posted by: Pat Garvey Apr 15 2013, 07:21 PM
The Certificate of Authenticity makes no mention of a radio, which I believe is common as many were dealer installed. Whoever installed my radio used a non-original antenna. And then they tightened it too much. So under the wide cup against the fender is a small non-progressive crack in the paint. A standard (Hirschmann) lets you see the crack so I've left this antenna on.
But a bigger issue is the radio. It is an awful, awful Kenwood removable face monstrosity.
I have an original style radio that I could install but it only has one wire coming out of the back...
How about a radio delete filler for the dash and hope no one notices the speakers or antenna? (just kidding)
I will post the radio later...
Paul
Actually my radio thread is here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=109964
Paul,
I bought my late 72 with no radio from the factory, yet it had the speaker grills (no speakers) in place. Bought speakers & a Blaupinkt Frankfurt from Crutchfield. You probably know that I never drilled for an antenna, but it worked fine with a windshield antenna.
Point is, I would give more work into cleaning/detailing other areas. Radios from the era could be anything - forget it as long as it is "period correct". These cars were a constantly changing beast until late 74.
Have you addresed the interior edges of your front door jambs? Make certatain that there is no wax residue - that's why Q-tips were invented I think.
Posted by: orthobiz May 3 2013, 03:16 PM
So I brought my car into the local guru of paint to have my car professionally buffed and waxed. I bought a PorterCable orbital about four years ago and did it myself but still had some tiny starburst looking random scratchy spidery lines in the paint.
I would like to say that my car is beautiful and does not in any way need a new paint job, at least in my eyes. And unless you are looking closely at 6" or less, you really do not see flawed paint. BUT I was hoping some of the swirly marks would disappear.
Anyway, my guy is upset because he buffed the back trunk and was not able to improve the appearance. He was afraid he'd go through the paint!
1. I'm not gonna get out the orbital but I am interested in the latest and greatest product for our cars with original paint. Is there some special nanotechnology shine substance I can use before the Parade?
2. He said the paint back in the day was "thin." Is this true? I remember in 1974 I hand buffed through the paint on my 1971 Signal Orange car...
3. He also said the car did not have enamel paint. I always thought it was enamel?
Thanks,
Paul
PS I will get rid of all the wax, Pat!!!
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 3 2013, 05:58 PM
The literature says it is enamel, it looks like enamel, and is single stage (no clear coat). Its also likely to be thin after 40 years. The paint detailing gurus have a special gun that will tell them the mil thickness of paint, you need to find someone like that. Paint thins over time by oxidization and wear and you may not have much thickness to buff out. Have it checked to be sure.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: orthobiz May 3 2013, 06:15 PM
Thanks Jeff. He used his photo spectrometer thingy to match some touchup paint for me, so I know he has equipment. Never thought to ask about how thick my paint is.
A buddy of mine has mentioned Swissvax, some incredibly expensive stuff for paint care. Back in the day, Zymol was the best. But I'm still wondering about some of the newer compounds that might "fill in" or make imperfections less noticeable.
Maybe just clay followed by wax?
That Porsche ad is great, by the way. Especially the zinc part. Zinc my eye, these cars are famous for rust!!!
Paul
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 3 2013, 07:51 PM
I don't think its a spectrometer, its a digital paint film thickness gauge.
That 'ad' above is the backside of the 914 car colors brochure.
You might look into 'glaze' products in the car care section, I understand this product is used to fill in minor scratches, then wax over that. Meguiars website has some helpful paint care processes/products - I bet the other major mfrs' do too.
Posted by: orthobiz May 4 2013, 05:50 PM
He used the spectrometer to mix up some touchup paint. I need to ask him if he measured the paint thickness.
Any ideas on best wax products? I think Zymol has one for red cars??
I think I should just go ahead and clay the paint followed by a wax.
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey May 4 2013, 06:30 PM
I don't think its a spectrometer, its a digital paint film thickness gauge.
That 'ad' above is the backside of the 914 car colors brochure.
You might look into 'glaze' products in the car care section, I understand this product is used to fill in minor scratches, then wax over that. Meguiars website has some helpful paint care processes/products - I bet the other major mfrs' do too.
Agreed! A spectrometer, or spectrophotometer, will diagnose spectral items, such as color, intensity and, in some cases degrees of spectral colorants (yeah, I know, it's heady). They CAN be used to match, or closely match, paint. But that's it. For a basic view of what a spectrophotometer analyses look at the artwork for Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon".
I worked with these things for 15 years YEARS ago, to determine if FDA food colors matched specs. That's pretty much all they did.
I'd be interested in hearing about new finish produsts too. Have been a Meguiars fan for many years (Zymol was too much work), but there must be better products these days.
Posted by: tod914 May 4 2013, 07:00 PM
You have to be real careful with buffing. I wouldn't advise it, even though the new buffers and pads are much more forgiving than the ones from days of old. Last two 914's I've had, also had some of those minute scratches your talking about. Paint sealants will hide them well. Similar to a wax, but you won't get the same depth.
On the Ravenna green car, I clay barred it with the Uber blue bar and Mother's detail spray. The clay barring works great. Just keep the area real wet so it doesn't leave a residue. Gets out all of the dirt trapped inside the scratches. That dirt is what makes them stand out like an eye sore. Then use a good paint cleaner. I went with PS21 paint cleaner along with Mequires scratch remover; a 50/50 dab of each using an Uber micro fiber pad. The combo really makes the paint pop.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Microfiber-Applicator-Pad_p_647.html
Then followed by 1Z polish on the Uber pad, followed by PS21 wax. When I was done, the scratches were almost undetectable. You really had to catch the right light to see them. The minute ones went away. The Uber No Name super plush micro fiber towels were used to wipe/buff off the products. The key I found, was work in a small area at a time, and not to let any of the products dry on the paint. Wipe off right away. Typically worked in a 10"x10" area at a time. Also the best results I got from the wax, was applying it by hand on my hand. Emulsifing it, then rubbing it into the paint. If the wax wasn't heated by friction, it would streak. End results were amazing. Maybe go that route before doing anything too aggressive; like a buffer.
Each panel took me a week, but I also had to take 10+ years of film off it. Give it a try and I bet you'll be quite happy with the results.
Posted by: orthobiz May 4 2013, 07:56 PM
Wow! Thanks Tod! Just the kind of info I'm looking for. Will report back...
BTW, you're right, the buffer is out. I dropped my car off last week to our local painting guru, someone who has worked on high end cars. He tried to buff just the one panel and said NO WAY.
But isn't the Meguiar's scratch remover an abrasive, and using it would be similar to buffing?
And what exactly is a paint cleaner? A non-abrasive chemical dissolver or something?
Appreciate everyone's help.
Paul
Posted by: tod914 May 4 2013, 10:20 PM
Paul they are abrasives, but by hand you can control the pressure easier. They will, if rubbed too hard, remove paint. You would have to work at it a bit to see the paint come up. These are no where near what a compound would be. Maybe test in the trunk area first, so you can see what results they yield. If you want to be more cautious, you can use one of the foam applicator pads by hand instead of the microfiber pad. I found with the foam pads, you just seem to be pushing product around without really accomplishing much. The foam pads are good for the 1Z wax and vinyl products though. Here's links for some of the products;
http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_pc.html ps21 paintwork cleanser + the mequires scratch remover (the Mequires you can get any where)
http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_ps.html I used this to clean up the chrome on the bumper, followed by a coat of ps21 wax. My bumpers had stubborn grime on them, even after washing. This soap worked extremely well. Will even clean up minor rust pitting. Doubt you need it for your car.
The PS21 body shampoo is also a good product, once your car is waxed. I ended up using Palmolive dish soap to try to cut through the grime. The dish soap will remove the old wax, where the body shampoo won't.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/ carries most of the products. I believe autogeek might have more of these that I mentioned here. Never used them, but they seem to have a much larger selection of products.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Paint-Polish-Lack-Politur_p_73.html The polish I used after the PS21 paint cleanser
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Glanz-Wax_p_72.html
initial coat of wax on whole car, including trunks, jams, etc. This wax lasts longer, but doesn't have as much depth as the PS21 carnuba wax
http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_cw.html PS21 wax used on the exterior panels on top of the 1z. Your likely removing more of the base wax by adding on another layer of wax. So probably not necessary to use the 1Z wax on the exterior. I like the results of it in the trunks though.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Plastic-Deep-Cleaner_p_106.html was one of the products used to clean the vinyl. Followed up with
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Vinyl-Rubber-Care-and-Protectant_p_211.html vinyl and rubber care.
I was real happy with the 1Z products. A lot of guys swear by the 303 aerospace protectant. I haven't tried it, so I can't really comment on it.
Here's the clay bar. http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Blue-Clay-Bar_p_164.html Any on the shelf detail spray will work well with it. Word of caution don't use the Mequires clay kit. It's too sticky. Will leave a residue. The Mother's kit I tried, worked almost as well as the Uber clay bar. The Uber I found glided easier on the paint surface. The paint surface will be a little streaking once your done claying, but that will all come clean once you start with the ps21 paint cleaner. Before you clay, run your hand across the paint surface. You'll get a lot of resistance. Try it after. You'll be amazed how smooth it becomes.
Tires and bumper tops I used the Griots rubber prep http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/rubber+prep+16+ounces.do?sortby=ourPicks
This does a great job of removing the brown stains on the tire rubber.
I've been using their vinyl and rubber dressing, but not completely satisfied with it. You have to use a very small amount and kind of buff it in so it doesn't leave an uneven finish. It's nice if applied correctly, but sounds like the 303 would be the better choice from what I hear.
I would strongly suggest not to use the PS21 Total Auto Wash. It can leave an orange stain. Figured I'd let you know just in case your tempted to try it. All of the other PS21 products I used, worked great.
Too many products to choose from these days. I'm sure anyone of the guys in this forum can give you a different product list , and achieve comparable end results.
Hope that helps. Looks like your off to a great start.
Posted by: Pat Garvey May 5 2013, 07:19 PM
Paul they are abrasives, but by hand you can control the pressure easier. They will, if rubbed too hard, remove paint. You would have to work at it a bit to see the paint come up. These are no where near what a compound would be. Maybe test in the trunk area first, so you can see what results they yield. If you want to be more cautious, you can use one of the foam applicator pads by hand instead of the microfiber pad. I found with the foam pads, you just seem to be pushing product around without really accomplishing much. The foam pads are good for the 1Z wax and vinyl products though. Here's links for some of the products;
http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_pc.html ps21 paintwork cleanser + the mequires scratch remover (the Mequires you can get any where)
http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_ps.html I used this to clean up the chrome on the bumper, followed by a coat of ps21 wax. My bumpers had stubborn grime on them, even after washing. This soap worked extremely well. Will even clean up minor rust pitting. Doubt you need it for your car.
The PS21 body shampoo is also a good product, once your car is waxed. I ended up using Palmolive dish soap to try to cut through the grime. The dish soap will remove the old wax, where the body shampoo won't.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/ carries most of the products. I believe autogeek might have more of these that I mentioned here. Never used them, but they seem to have a much larger selection of products.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Paint-Polish-Lack-Politur_p_73.html The polish I used after the PS21 paint cleanser
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Glanz-Wax_p_72.html
initial coat of wax on whole car, including trunks, jams, etc. This wax lasts longer, but doesn't have as much depth as the PS21 carnuba wax
http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_cw.html PS21 wax used on the exterior panels on top of the 1z. Your likely removing more of the base wax by adding on another layer of wax. So probably not necessary to use the 1Z wax on the exterior. I like the results of it in the trunks though.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Plastic-Deep-Cleaner_p_106.html was one of the products used to clean the vinyl. Followed up with
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett-Vinyl-Rubber-Care-and-Protectant_p_211.html vinyl and rubber care.
I was real happy with the 1Z products. A lot of guys swear by the 303 aerospace protectant. I haven't tried it, so I can't really comment on it.
Here's the clay bar. http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Blue-Clay-Bar_p_164.html Any on the shelf detail spray will work well with it. Word of caution don't use the Mequires clay kit. It's too sticky. Will leave a residue. The Mother's kit I tried, worked almost as well as the Uber clay bar. The Uber I found glided easier on the paint surface. The paint surface will be a little streaking once your done claying, but that will all come clean once you start with the ps21 paint cleaner. Before you clay, run your hand across the paint surface. You'll get a lot of resistance. Try it after. You'll be amazed how smooth it becomes.
Tires and bumper tops I used the Griots rubber prep http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/rubber+prep+16+ounces.do?sortby=ourPicks
This does a great job of removing the brown stains on the tire rubber.
I've been using their vinyl and rubber dressing, but not completely satisfied with it. You have to use a very small amount and kind of buff it in so it doesn't leave an uneven finish. It's nice if applied correctly, but sounds like the 303 would be the better choice from what I hear.
I would strongly suggest not to use the PS21 Total Auto Wash. It can leave an orange stain. Figured I'd let you know just in case your tempted to try it. All of the other PS21 products I used, worked great.
Too many products to choose from these days. I'm sure anyone of the guys in this forum can give you a different product list , and achieve comparable end results.
Hope that helps. Looks like your off to a great start.
Good experiences Tod!
Posted by: orthobiz May 7 2013, 05:13 AM
I spoke with John Paterek yesterday. When I lived in NYC, he used to work on my black 914 (which now resides with Riley in Fargo, ND, but that's another story).
He said P21s paint cleaner with a dab of Blue Magic in the middle. Personally he doesn't like clay. Followed by P21s Concours Wax.
I will keep us posted!
Paul
Posted by: tod914 May 7 2013, 03:26 PM
Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.
Posted by: Pat Garvey May 7 2013, 07:36 PM
Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.
Sort of surprised that Paterak would suggest such a thing. How can that be less abrasive than a clay bar, which is easily controlled with fluids? I'm going to clay my 72 for the first time this spring. Used the bars on 3 car now with very acceptable results. Used the bars on alloy whells with gorgeous results, followed bt Zymol.
Posted by: tod914 May 7 2013, 10:34 PM
Pat, I've been to quite a few of John's workshops over the years. He's a big advocate of that combo. Apparently he's had great results using it. I tried it on two cars. The light ivory 914 and the Bahia red 914. To me, it was way too aggressive to use on good paint. Just a little too much pressure, and you'll be burning through it. Even with the smallest dab of the Blue Magic, for me, it worked like a compound. You have be very carefull using it, and make sure you have proper lighting so you can see what exactly what it's doing. Quite good on bringing oxidized paint back to life. He's demonstrated that at his workshops. In that case, you really don't have too much to loose.
The Mequires and PS21, is a much safer route to go. All the gloss that was brought back to life on the Ravenna 914's paint, was because of that combo. Seems to add a real luster to the paint. The carnuba wax was just the icing on the cake so to speak. That gave the paint it's depth.
Regarding the clay, I'm a total fan of it. It really prepares the surface well. Certainly no harm in using it on a factory finish. Great detailing tool to get into all the nooks and crannies in the engine bay. Lifts up all the dirt you can't quite get with your q-tips.
Posted by: Jasfsmith May 8 2013, 08:07 AM
Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.
Sort of surprised that Paterak would suggest such a thing. How can that be less abrasive than a clay bar, which is easily controlled with fluids? I'm going to clay my 72 for the first time this spring. Used the bars on 3 car now with very acceptable results. Used the bars on alloy whells with gorgeous results, followed bt Zymol.
I've used Paterak's combination for years. Yes it can remove minute surface paint if you grind it in. I've also used clay bars. Only concern I have with the clay is the retention of the particles it removes. They remain on the clay bar as you rub the clay over the paint surface. Liberal amounts of wet agent is a definite must.
Amount of Blue Magic is about the size of small pea to a couple of caps of the PS21 cleaning cream. It works great for the super fine scratches.
Posted by: orthobiz May 8 2013, 10:36 AM
Dang! Now I'm really confused!!!
Products are on their way to me now, will post some pics when I start. If I burn through the paint, I ain't goin' to the show!!!
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz May 8 2013, 10:40 AM
Regarding tod914's comment, the main difference between Paterek's suggestion and his: whether to use Blue Magic or Meguiar's scratch removal. I'll have both available!
Paul
Posted by: tod914 May 8 2013, 12:08 PM
Paul, I guess it all comes down to the condition of your paint. Looks real nice in the pictures. Try them both and see what works better for you. The Mequires + PS21 will be less aggressive than what John suggested. Anxious to hear what your results are. Like I said, just passing along what worked for me.
James, I agree with you on the clay bars. I think used four of them to do my car. You can only kneed them so much before your running dirt particles over the surface. I was just amazed how smooth the paint becomes, after using them.
Posted by: orthobiz May 8 2013, 04:19 PM
My wheels are off to Paterek Brothers, Chatham NJ to get redone!
I will still have an original 39 year old Michelin ZX tire. If Paterek doesn't want it, anyone can have it if they pay shipping. It should never ever be driven, however!!! I will know in the next couple of days.
I have new Michelin XZX 165SR15 tires coming from Coker. The tires on it are over 9 years old and they don't match the spare so I am replacing them.
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz May 10 2013, 04:37 PM
Tires have arrived! 5 Michelin XZX 165SR15.
I have the original 39 year old spare...for the concours weenies among us, I am thinking about safety so I was gonna mount all 5 tires and get rid of the original spare. Think I'll get points with judges even though the tires wouldn't all match? (Guess I'm obsessing a bit, eh?)
Paul
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey May 11 2013, 06:31 PM
Tires have arrived! 5 Michelin XZX 165SR15.
I have the original 39 year old spare...for the concours weenies among us, I am thinking about safety so I was gonna mount all 5 tires and get rid of the original spare. Think I'll get points with judges even though the tires wouldn't all match? (Guess I'm obsessing a bit, eh?)
Paul
Paul
Paul,
Dump the original spare. Go with 5 period-correct tires that match. You bought five, so use five.
Pat
Posted by: orthobiz May 11 2013, 07:54 PM
I'm with you, thanks Pat!
Paul
Posted by: rnellums May 13 2013, 10:02 AM
For anyone ordering from detailer's domain, the code NEWBIE gets 15% off!
Posted by: orthobiz May 13 2013, 10:41 AM
For anyone ordering from detailer's domain, the code NEWBIE gets 15% off!
I love useful information! And if I write "NEWBIE" and go through the paint, maybe I can get 30 percent off on PRIMER!!
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey May 16 2013, 06:49 PM
Paul,
We expect copious quantities of pics from the Parade.
Not going to be able tp make it - 90 year old mother-in-law needs to be moved. It's always something!
Good luck - you'll do well and, at the least, have an experience few others have had.
Pat
Posted by: Eric_Shea May 17 2013, 03:31 PM
Please Paul; no more pictures of Pat in shorty shorts.
Posted by: Pat Garvey May 17 2013, 06:18 PM
Please Paul; no more pictures of Pat in shorty shorts.
I had great legs in those days! Clay courts destroyed them. Look like road maps now. But, I'm still cute. Sorry for the hijack, just thought it necessary.
Posted by: turk22 May 18 2013, 08:35 PM
I wanted to share this process I found for restoring oxidized single stage paint.
I don't think it applies to the prep you guys are doing, but I plan to try it for my very oxidized original paint. The detail provided in the attached process seems to be just what I need.
(This link is for autotraderclassic, but the process is originally from Auto Geek.)
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+1-65310.xhtml
Turk
Posted by: orthobiz May 19 2013, 06:02 AM
Thanks everybody. I'm having success with a dab of Blue Magic in the middle of a pool of P21S Paintwork Cleanser. I just know I won't have time for third and fourth applications of product!
I will eventually post lots of pics. My daytime job keeps getting in the way.
Paul
Posted by: rnellums May 20 2013, 07:23 AM
I wanted to share this process I found for restoring oxidized single stage paint.
I don't think it applies to the prep you guys are doing, but I plan to try it for my very oxidized original paint. The detail provided in the attached process seems to be just what I need.
(This link is for autotraderclassic, but the process is originally from Auto Geek.)
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+1-65310.xhtml
Turk
Great articles/articles!
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 7 2013, 03:59 PM
Maybe a dumb question, but here goes:
I'm in the Preservation group but because my car has less than 1000 miles logged per year (25500 for a 39 year old car) I'm lumped into the group with the 356, 911 and 914.
So the rules talk about "chassis" which I know is the undersurface of the car. But what are the judges typically looking at, the wheel wells, the exhaust? I mean it's hard to get far under it, no?
Paul
Posted by: dcheek Jun 11 2013, 10:32 AM
Ahhhhhhhh,
Reading this thread brings back all the memories, both good and bad regarding preparing a car for a Concours Event.
My first Zone One Concours I spent 3 months taking everything apart, cleaning and putting it back together again. I had dirty wheels and tires to drive to the event a day early) and then swapped them with a clean set. Of course once you get it that clean you don't want to drive it - at all! Subsequent shows I would spend up to 30 hours to detail little things.
I did very well and got tons of positive reinforcement from the judges and spectators. It really was worth the effort. I remember some judges would find dirt and wipe it on your score sheet. Some thought it was funny, others were humiliated, having slaved over their car for hours, only to have missed an obvious (to the judges) spot. I did have the satisfaction of having literally no dirt on anything, so my score sheet was clean. They had to find something right? A judge ran his finger along the fan belt and got some rubber residue! Everybody, including me got a good laugh out of it but, THAT CAR WAS CLEEEEEEAN, and they knew it.
The key is time. You must spend the time to prepare the car. And, if you drive it there, more time to clean up what you got dirty on the drive up. This is why I haven't competed in quite some time. I just don't want to devote 3 months of my life cleaning a car to the nth degree.
As far as what products to use, that's like asking someone what is the best oil to use. You will get a different answer from everyone. Experiment, and find what products you are comfortable with. And, just because it cost a lot, doesn't mean it's the best. The two products I use to prepare my paint didn't cost more than $30. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked, "Who painted your car?" and I would reply "Porsche". "The paint is original?" "Yes".
So if you spend the time you will do well. Talk to the judges and get your score sheet back at the end of the event to correct what got points off for the next time. It works. And, most important, have fun. That is what this is all about right??
Dave
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 11 2013, 07:50 PM
Hey Dave, thanks for all the good advice. Good to hear from you. You helped me when I bought my current car about 6 years ago (actually I begged you to sell me your car but you gave me lots of encouragement, nonetheless!). I used to see your car at the Zone 1 events in the mid 80's, you truly have a beautiful car.
My buddy Mike and I are cleaning up the car every night now. No matter what, I will have fun at the concours. Paterek will have my wheels shipped back to me this Friday, I am psyched!
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 14 2013, 05:54 AM
If I promise now to add pics this weekend, maybe I'll get around to doing it!
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 14 2013, 06:03 PM
Hey Dave, thanks for all the good advice. Good to hear from you. You helped me when I bought my current car about 6 years ago (actually I begged you to sell me your car but you gave me lots of encouragement, nonetheless!). I used to see your car at the Zone 1 events in the mid 80's, you truly have a beautiful car.
My buddy Mike and I are cleaning up the car every night now. No matter what, I will have fun at the concours. Paterek will have my wheels shipped back to me this Friday, I am psyched!
Paul
You WILL win! I am so excited for you & wish I could be there. Planned it, until my wife's mother broke here hip.
YOU CAN DO IT! Sorry for yelling.
Pat
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 15 2013, 06:11 AM
Thanks Pat, your words of encouragement mean a lot to me. I was feeling pretty good until I realized just how far the quarter panel extends forward, like to the door jambs! Talk about baked on grease!! Still have a lot of work to do...
Paterek is a perfectionist. Apparently my wheels were redone and powdercoated and the junction between the vertical surface and the wheel rim has gunk in it. So he painted it, didn't like the way that it looked and resprayed again yesterday. I gotta call him today to see. The wheels are gonna arrive in the midnight hour!
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 20 2013, 07:42 PM
OK, you're leaving the dealership...Where did Porsche put the Owner's Manual and the Toolkit?
Paul
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jun 21 2013, 11:17 AM
OK, you're leaving the dealership...Where did Porsche put the Owner's Manual and the Toolkit?
Paul
I'm not sure if there is a specific way of handling this. Both Parades I competed, I put the Owner's manual and all other documentation arranged on the passenger side floor (glove box empty and closed).
Toolkit I placed open, on the tire board placed in front of the car. I didn't receive and complaints. I saw a mix of this approach by others. Perhaps Pat has a better suggestion.
Good luck!
James Smith
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Jun 21 2013, 01:52 PM
Paul,
I'm sure you have these items. The display of which might be apparent when you see how others are arranging them when you get to the concours site. James' suggestion seems tasteful, subdued and low-key.
Paul
Attached image(s)
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 22 2013, 06:15 PM
Some late night cell phone pictures with tree shadows.
I guess I have to stop sometime. I could spend weeks and weeks and weeks just cleaning forever.
This will have to do.
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 25 2013, 07:24 PM
Been super busy at home, hope to post a few pics soon.
It was a great day for sure!
Paul
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Jun 25 2013, 07:44 PM
A well deserved huzzahh for all your work and effort and for carrying the 914 banner so high for all of us. No doubt you've raised the bar for 914 preservation standards.
Way to go Paul. 
Kudos to Bliz as well
We need more pics of the concours and the 914 entrants that were there. 
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 25 2013, 09:11 PM
Pictures compliments of Jerry...jgilliam
Paul
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jun 26 2013, 08:05 AM
Great job Paul!
Now you have the post victory depression when you realize that you've got ONLY twelve months to prepare for the next Parade. <grin>
Posted by: Jgilliam914 Jun 26 2013, 10:15 AM
Great job Paul!
Now you have the post victory depression when you realize that you've got ONLY twelve months to prepare for the next Parade. <grin>
Right now I don't think his wife thinks he will be defending his placing at next years Parade
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 27 2013, 03:55 PM
I did not contest them because I did not read the sheet while I was there, having already won first place.
Coachwork: possible hit in the right rear
...I think this is from the factory sway bars in the rear trunk
Dash, Steering, Instruments: optional console not on Kardex
...This was part of the chrome bumpers, I would assume, like an Appearance Group
Tools: missing couple of tools
...I have a complete kit, I believe, just less for 1974 than earlier cars.
Paul
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 28 2013, 06:09 PM
Paul
Congrats! Never a doubt that you would win. Dedication to the task at hand.
Proud of you!
Pat
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 29 2013, 11:31 PM
I did not contest them because I did not read the sheet while I was there, having already won first place.
Coachwork: possible hit in the right rear
...I think this is from the factory sway bars in the rear trunk
Dash, Steering, Instruments: optional console not on Kardex
...This was part of the chrome bumpers, I would assume, like an Appearance Group
Tools: missing couple of tools
...I have a complete kit, I believe, just less for 1974 than earlier cars.
Paul
You might want to look into the center console. In the 1973 model year 2.0Ls, lots of the otherwise optional equipment items were standard, but in 1974, these became optional and the equipment groups changed composition.
Your chrome bumpers would have been an extra cost option in 1974, are they shown that way on the COA? Here is a list of separate optional equipment items for all years:
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm
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Posted by: orthobiz Jun 30 2013, 05:29 PM
You might want to look into the center console. In the 1973 model year 2.0Ls, lots of the otherwise optional equipment items were standard, but in 1974, these became optional and the equipment groups changed composition.
Your chrome bumpers would have been an extra cost option in 1974, are they shown that way on the COA? Here is a list of separate optional equipment items for all years:
My COA:
Just "Chrome Bumpers!" And my car has fog lights as well as the center console. I mean, this thing has the wiring harness in place for the console. And I know for a fact from the original owner's son that the chrome bumpers were not parted out for other fog light bumpers and the console was not added separately. With the COA as it is, I'm not so sure the Monroney sticker would be any better (but it is, alas, unavailable).
Any ideas, Jeff?
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 30 2013, 05:38 PM
So this raises the question of whether my car has the appearance group (which it does: 2 horns, shift boot, center console, fog lights, leatherette steering wheel) and it was NOT documented by the factory? Can I correct this? (and I don't mean removing all of that cool stuff!)
Paul
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Jun 30 2013, 06:54 PM
Paul,
The CoAs for 914s seem to be useful only for VIN, color code, and engine #. Vagueness (i.e. "US Equipment"), errors (i.e. equipment & options not even coded for 914 models) and omissions (your 914 and my '70 came w/appearance group but was not noted on the CoA) plague 914 CoAs. The satellite Karmann factory in Osnabruck probably didn't have any directives to keep detailed documentation for the 914 production equipment other than the aforementioned items. There have been a number of threads questioning the inaccuracies of 914 certificates.
As far as getting a correction, Pat Garvey could tell you about his frustration in getting an accurate and concise CoA for his 1972 1.7. after receiving questionable data on his CoA.
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Jun 30 2013, 07:44 PM
Paul,
The CoAs for 914s seem to be useful only for VIN, color code, and engine #. Vagueness (i.e. "US Equipment"), errors (i.e. equipment & options not even coded for 914 models) and omissions (your 914 and my '70 came w/appearance group but was not noted on the CoA) plague 914 CoAs. The satellite Karmann factory in Osnabruck probably didn't have any directives to keep detailed documentation for the 914 production equipment other than the aforementioned items. There have been a number of threads questioning the inaccuracies of 914 certificates.
As far as getting a correction, Pat Garvey could tell you about his frustration in getting an accurate and concise CoA for his 1972 1.7. after receiving questionable data on his CoA.
Paul
Thanks, I don't like the judges mentioning inaccuracies that aren't true!
Paul
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 1 2013, 02:39 PM
Sure seems like a COA error. All 1974 914s have the center console connections at the chassis harness.
Posted by: Philip W. Jul 2 2013, 06:35 AM
having only been a 914 owner for a few short years this is very educational for me. I am looking at this issue and wondering about the qualifications of the judges in this area. they should be aware of these inaccuracies in the COA's. They also should be aware of the changes from one model year to the other in regard to something like a tool kit. If we know about it, they should too, and if they don't they should not be judging! Just because they may be experts in say the 911 line does not qualify them to judge 914, 356 etc (IMHO)
Regarding the COA inacuracies, I know that my 75 was a 2.0 with appearance group, which means that it should have had the 2.0 fuchs, but being the 5th owner, it was plundered by a P.O. of those and the center console. Now i am lucky enough that the original sales receipts and the window sticker were with the car, so i know it came with those. I suppose for you, if you had the original window sticker it may have shown them these items in question were indeed on the car at purchase time? just a thought. I know its pretty rare that these were kept, and preserved from one owner to another. Wish mine was in better shape.
anyway, just a few thoughts from a semi-lurker.
oh, and congradulations!!!
Posted by: Jasfsmith Jul 2 2013, 07:26 AM
As my 914-6 is a Euro version imported from Switzerland, I prepared a notebook of all my import material, to supplement my COA, and a section listing all the differences between my 6 and a standard US version, complete with references to other sources (ie. factory manuals/parts catalogues and third party books).
At time of judging, I made it available to the chief judge. I believe it did make a difference. Of the two parades I competed in the majority of the judges were very knowledgeable with the 914 model, and did check my documentation.
The idea of the notebook came from John Paterak.
Posted by: orthobiz Jul 2 2013, 02:57 PM
They also should be aware of the changes from one model year to the other in regard to something like a tool kit. If we know about it, they should too, and if they don't they should not be judging! Just because they may be experts in say the 911 line does not qualify them to judge 914, 356 etc (IMHO)
I suppose for you, if you had the original window sticker it may have shown them these items in question were indeed on the car at purchase time?
oh, and congradulations!!!
Thanks for the kudos. The window sticker is long gone. The judges were fairly knowledgable but 356/911/914 is a broad range to know "everything" about indeed.
Paul
Posted by: orthobiz Jul 2 2013, 02:58 PM
As my 914-6 is a Euro version imported from Switzerland, I prepared a notebook of all my import material, to supplement my COA, and a section listing all the differences between my 6 and a standard US version, complete with references to other sources (ie. factory manuals/parts catalogues and third party books).
At time of judging, I made it available to the chief judge. I believe it did make a difference. Of the two parades I competed in the majority of the judges were very knowledgeable with the 914 model, and did check my documentation.
The idea of the notebook came from John Paterak.
If I ever show again, I'll bring a book. It's a great idea.
Paul
Posted by: mrgreenjeans Jul 6 2013, 08:07 PM
Paul
we talked a bit about this tool kit and center console briefly before I had to run away and abandon you on the way to photoshoot friend Steve's amazing Grey Beige 73 - 911.
I have a complete tool bag, new never opened that was in my 60,000 mile original 74- 2.0 litre. When I opened it for the first time the spindly, original black rubber band gave its all and disintegrated into 2 pieces.
BUT, I was now able to enter the 'cloistered room' of a tool bag that had never been opened previously. This was in 1994 , the same Fall I acquired my yellow car.
There within were all the original tools, appearing as they did when put there 20 years previously. At the time I also had a 1978 VW Vanagon with the rare double sunroof and multi-passenger seating arrangement in two tone sepia and orange, with the wild '70's style stripe kit running down the sides.
There in its glove box was the EXACT same tool bag , with the exact same number of tools and the same rubber band in black that was to hold the bag together, but had been put inside the pouch.......
After a careful comparison of said arrangement, and safely keeping each tool for each vehicle out of the other bag....... I came to an astonishing conclusion.
Anyone else here have the same knowledge and possibly a similar experience ?
Posted by: TJB/914 Aug 24 2013, 08:15 AM
Been super busy at home, hope to post a few pics soon.
It was a great day for sure!
Paul
Hi Guys & thanks for everyone's Kudo's.
Here's my opinion on Parade.
I entered my 914 in full restoration thinking only a few 914's would be in my class & guess what!!! My 914 was the only one in my class. I got 1st. place with a total score of 290.8 out of a possible 300 score. I did very, very good. There were about 700 cars on the concourse field with about 2% in full restoration. One of the judges said people don't like full restoration anymore, it's too demanding!!! I guess-estimated about 80% ++ of the cars on the field were current 1-2 year old or new Porsche's including SUV Cayenne's. Old stuff is only window dressing for the total Parade experience. I had the feeling newer Porsche people were not interested in our 914's. They walked past our display & never seemed interested. For the 25% crowd with 356, 911, 914 & special interest cars drawing their groupies, it was an earth moving experience. Ask Eric
Paul Hawk 
Tom 
etc. ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
More:
In my opinion Paul's 914 in preservation got shafted over the 911 that was pictured in Panorama. Porsche politics in action. We are moving up the social PCA ladder, but 911's rule. 914's did very well & we should be proud of the (7) 914's on the field. I met Pete Stout at Parade & he will be a great leader @ PCA (Pete owns a 914). PCA is an important arm of the Porsche factory sales dept. selling expensive Porsche cars. Panorama will always be loaded with newer Porsche articles to satisfy the factory & the 80% ++ deep pocket new buyers. It is what it is
I believe Pete will throw in a 914 article when possible. BTW: My opinions the way I see it
I like the new 2013-4 Cayman and it will be my next future toy if someone wants to purchase my 914 for about $35K I took the 914 out for a donut run this morning in low 60's morning cool temps. and fell in love with my 914 all over again (see photo). 2nd gear pulls strong & the loud muffler sounded good. Tom
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Posted by: Pat Garvey Aug 25 2013, 07:12 PM
Been super busy at home, hope to post a few pics soon.
It was a great day for sure!
Paul
Hi Guys & thanks for everyone's Kudo's.
Here's my opinion on Parade.
I entered my 914 in full restoration thinking only a few 914's would be in my class & guess what!!! My 914 was the only one in my class. I got 1st. place with a total score of 290.8 out of a possible 300 score. I did very, very good. There were about 700 cars on the concourse field with about 2% in full restoration. One of the judges said people don't like full restoration anymore, it's too demanding!!! I guess-estimated about 80% ++ of the cars on the field were current 1-2 year old or new Porsche's including SUV Cayenne's. Old stuff is only window dressing for the total Parade experience. I had the feeling newer Porsche people were not interested in our 914's. They walked past our display & never seemed interested. For the 25% crowd with 356, 911, 914 & special interest cars drawing their groupies, it was an earth moving experience. Ask Eric
Paul Hawk Tom etc. More:
In my opinion Paul's 914 in preservation got shafted over the 911 that was pictured in Panorama. Porsche politics in action. We are moving up the social PCA ladder, but 911's rule. 914's did very well & we should be proud of the (7) 914's on the field. I met Pete Stout at Parade & he will be a great leader @ PCA (Pete owns a 914). PCA is an important arm of the Porsche factory sales dept. selling expensive Porsche cars. Panorama will always be loaded with newer Porsche articles to satisfy the factory & the 80% ++ deep pocket new buyers. It is what it is
I believe Pete will throw in a 914 article when possible. BTW: My opinions the way I see it
I like the new 2013-4 Cayman and it will be my next future toy if someone wants to purchase my 914 for about $35K I took the 914 out for a donut run this morning in low 60's morning cool temps. and fell in love with my 914 all over again (see photo). 2nd gear pulls strong & the loud muffler sounded good. Tom
290.8! So, I assume you lost points for polished alloys & euro turn signal lenses.
It really boggles my mind that there is so little enthusiasm for the older Porsches at the Parade level. Do you think that maybe the Parade has lost its luster from a concours standpoint?
My first Parade was 1974 (Poconos). The class structure was "full" and "street", with classes for the various models. There were no "preservation", "preparation", Restoration", ad- nauseum classes. You entered either a "concours" class or a street class. If you entered the concours class you were subjected to rigorous judging by experts of the day. They took into account cleanliness and originality, with points removed for non-original features. The judges actually touched your car, with white gloves (they wore white lab coats too) looking for missed filth.
A restored car was treated the same as a preserved car. Original parts? check, or gig. Filth found, gig.
The judging, including Best of Show, was completed by 11.00. Judges had the same 5 minutes as today for the classes. It was simple, primarily because brand new car owners had the decency to stay away ( I have a plan for that). The next hour was devoted to judging the class winners for BOS (no division winners, all class winners were eligible). Those of us who'd been told the we were class winners were instructed to stay with our cars for BOS judging, and to keep our engine lids open. So, the field narrowed. I knew I didn't have a chance, but it was still a rush. Of course we all put towels on top of our engine bays, because a second judging was coming. We didn't' want to keep waiting for that judging & let dust accumulate. I was written off early, but a friend from Chicago Region (Bob White) was selected for final BOS showing. He was so extractive when they called him to the front for final judging that he forgot about the towel covering his motor. Fired his motor up, the towel got sucked into the cooling fan! We eventually got it out, in pieces, and he made it to final judging. Forget the results.
Point is this. Just reduce the Parade concours classes. Bring your Porsche and enter into a "full" concours or street class. Break it into model, irrespective of years, classes. Clean it. Let the judges with the longest fingers find your filth (if any). If it isn't original, pay for it with points reductions and make up for it in other areas. Plat the game & stop being such a pussy.
Sorry for the diatribe. Congrats Bliz and Ortobliz..
Pat
ps - thanks for letting an old fart relive the glory days.
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