Hello all: I'm new to the 914 world and am hoping to add a 2.0 to our garage soon. I have seen references to a VIN page in the forums but can't find it on the site.
Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks
Hello. Click the 914 info link up top.
Thanks, found it! Where can I use the VIN to find out how the car was equipped when new?
quick answer: you cant. The vin wont provide any of those details
Well, in actual fact you could use the VIN to acquire my CoA-type of Report which could have almost all the data you want but not including the transmission #. There is a cost of course. Email me.
Dave I suggest you cut down on the coffee.
I made no such insinuation, & if Im gonna call someone a liar I wont mince words.
I qualified my statement related to region only because I have no knowledge if PNA does things differently in different countries, not to imply anything related to any service you might provide.
If fact, this it the first that I have been made aware you provide any such service?
Before you loose your shit over a perceived slight you might consider whether the target of your ire is even aware of why you are mad
Do you have an ad here in the members section? Other marketing site? If not, why not?
I guess here is your chance...
If you provide a service that may be valuable to the community... perhaps provide a detailed description (& prices) of what that is, and how to access it.
chill
Hey all! The Bumblebee that I was courting was finally delivered this week, complete with original window sticker, CofA and service records dating back to the 20 mile delivery order. Now the sorting out begins. What I thought would be a short list is getting longer. I'm hoping I don't regret the challenge.
I'll post more in a new thread.
Rob
That is excellent Rob. I am gathering the last bits for a full engine rebuild by Mark Henry for my LE Bumblebee. I'd love to see your WS & CoA. I can get that added to the LE website that documents our great little cars. You can email them to me f you wish. Regards, Dave Pateman
Hi Folks. I'm new to this forum and don't currently own a 914, however, I am currently looking at one for sale. I tried to do a Carfax search on the VIN, and it says it requires a 17 digit VIN. Can someone suggest a site to obtain a vehicle history for a 914? Thanks!
David can give you initial/as-delivered info off the Kardex - but he does charge. It won't be a history but it'll show you how it came from the factory. Not sure of his timeline - reach out direct: david_j.pateman@sympatico.ca
So after a couple of cocktails one eve I send off a ill tempered email to the VP of "aftersales" not really expecting anything of it but just an opportunity to vent & provide a opinion on their "Classic" marketing strategy ...some time later I get this response:
Good Afternoon
I hope you are doing well. Thank you for your patience as I gathered information from our Porsche Classic Vehicle Information Specialist. Please see below:
I have verified that we produced a PPS for your noted VIN mid-February. I have reviewed the original build documentation and confirmed the PPS provided is accurate.
The transmission was not recorded at the time of production therefore we cannot list the transmission type on the PPS and indicated information not available.
The MSRP is not recorded (for any vehicle until the late 1990’s-early 2000’s) therefore the MSRP is listed as information not available.
As the PPS is an official record, we do not use external sources or other window stickers for verification of the MSRP. If the information is not recorded at the time of production, it is not included in the Porsche Production Specification. If the customer has the original window sticker for his vehicle indicating the MSRP, he may submit those documents for review to vehicledocumentation@porsche.us to determine if the PPS can be updated to indicate the MSRP.
The vehicle is equipped with option 570 which is “Seat Cushions” per Porsche Germany. This option refers to a change in standard seat cushions (such as comfort equipment).
We cannot provide vehicle information via email for security reasons.
We cannot confirm/deny or provide the engine/transmission numbers.
We do not release the engine/transmission information any longer for the security of owners due to the value of classic vehicles. This is for your security and the security of future buyers, we do not wish to provide information that may lead to any misrepresentation of a vehicle in the future.
We now offer the Classic Technical Certificate (CTC). The CTC includes a 63 point inspection by a Porsche Classic Partner. Beyond the technical inspection, the certificate also includes photos of the vehicle (including the engine/transmission numbers) and original production information (included on the PPS). Based on photos of the engine and transmission in the vehicle, which we obtain from the Porsche Classic Partner, we are able to provide a verification on the CTC if the engine/transmission in the vehicle match our records or if there is no Porsche record (such as the transmission numbers for the 914’s)
Our site does indicate that the engine and transmission serial numbers are not included and information will be included on the PPS when available. This detail is indicated before the process of starting the PPS.
In the spirit of goodwill and appreciation of your loyalty to the Porsche brand, I would like to provide you with a complimentary PPS. If you would like to receive the PPS, could you please verify your mailing in your reply & acknowledgement.
Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars North America and for the opportunity to assist in this matter.
Kind Regards,
Executive Case Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
One Porsche Drive, Atlanta, GA 30354
The seat cushion thing was odd. The PPS I received listed "Seat cushions" (plural) as optional equipment.
I thought perhaps it was a upholstery option but apparently not.
Never heard of Option 570, so I dont know how more "comfortable" they could make them?
Rich, Option M570 was a center seat cushion as in 'Comfort Equipment'.
https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm
All 914 (4&6) would have as standard equipment a center deposit in front of the gearshift, and a two compartment tray between the seats. Option M570 was a seat cushion that fitted into the tray for a third seating position. Not a comfortable one since it is narrow, loose, and the driver would be working the gearshift possibly between your legs.
Thanks for the confirmation, I learn something about these cars all the time.
Its odd that PCNA doesn't see fit to correct their grammatical error, it only adds to confusion & uncertainty of the "product" they are selling.
So per Daves comment were dealers likely to have removed the deposit boxes (Like the spare alloy wheels)? Or they simply were so shoddily made that they haven't made it the near 5 decades?
as an aside.
i have often looked at the parcel bin in mine wondering exactly why it is the shape it is.
ie its quite tall and not exactly useful for most things you want to store in a console "bin",
its pretty good for rolling up a puffer jacket and stuffing that in there!
my thought about the original design and purpose is that it suits the shape of a lot of womens shoulder bags in the 1970s and that is what it was for?
snooped around in my files which are mostly re 74 Ljet.
but i collected examples either side - 73 1.7 s and 75 1.8 s.
here are two 1,7 examples with the parcel box as porsche called it.
1.
2.
its much more common in 73 1.7s than later 1.8s from 74 on.
a couple of good reasons for that i think.
you could not order the console and gauges that went into the 73 2.0 for the 73 1.7.
as far as i can work out no 73 1.7 ever got the top spec gauge console.
instead the parcel box was what you got when you went full spec on a 1.7.
the american sales sheets refer to it as a console in these 1.7 cars.
one sales sheet lists it as a No Cost option and implies it is part of appearance group 1.7.
the other lists it as an $18.00 charge option. (sort of implies not part of appearance group standard package for that particular car but ordered as a distinct option by the customer? )
but no M-Code for it.
I suspect that a full M code list for the 914 will be hard to find.
it would have been a document held by the VW-Porsche GMBH organisation rather than porsche itself? i know some of the M-Codes on the 914/4 are shared with the VW 411/412. so they are VW M-Codes not Porsche ones.
in 74 (and 75) it was a different story for the 1.8s.
they could be real strippers or they could go full appearance group.
that included the guages and console that went in the 2.0L as well.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10753 has one. from factory that way.
thats where the 1.8s are different from the 1.7s.
i think most people after the non stripper type car would have ticked the 1.8 appearance group box and got the full gauge and black vinyl console.
ticking the box for the parcel box would have become far less common. it would have been something you built up from a base model car.
same went for 75.
but according to PET you could still get the parcel bin.
i'll dig around further in my files for the 74 and 75 info.
but its a much rarer thing in those years.
i have one in my car but its unusual in other ways too.
its not appearance group spec like @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10753 s.
but it does have sway bars (factory fitted) and the bin.
but still has star steelies and not alloys.
it was ordered a very particular way.
i would speculate the following (with reasonable basis) for that package bin - so called "console".
for the 4s.
its a standard part of appearance group package for 70 thru 72 4cyl cars.
base 914s don't have it but you could order one as an option to base car.
-------
for 73 its included in appearance group 1.7 cars.
base 1.7 s don't get it. but it can be an option.
the appearance group 2.0 for 73 gets the full console and gauges.
base 2.0 s don't get the bin but can be an option.
the reason that the 1.7s never got the guage option was the engine did not come to the assembly line with the sump plate sender. having a temp guage in a 1.7 was not a factory consideration at that stage.
------
for 74 the guages and console are the standard inclusion for both appearance group 1.8s and 2.0s.
the base 1.8s and base 2.0s do not get the bin. but its an option if ticked.
the strategy changes in 74 and there is a 1.8 engine that came to the assembly line with a sump plate sender. its identified with a paint stamp number.
all 2.0s had the sump plate sender no matter what as they all had a temp guage,
either in main instrument cluster or in console.
74 is the first time the factory offers a temp guage in the base engined car as a possibility.
---------
for 75 - as per 74.
----------
for 76. all 914s are 2.0 fully kitted as appearance group with guages and console.
---------
dunno what applies for the 6s.
but am guessing its as per the 4s of those years.
there is a base car. no bin.
the full spec car has the bin.
but its an option for the base cars.
I'm still processing the above, but here are a couple of other fun facts to ponder:
The 1971 wiring schematic includes an oil temp sender circuit on the ignition harness and the original ignition harnesses have this circuit. The 1970 and 1972 do not. My thinking is that a separate wire directly connected the 1971 ignition harness to a sump mounted oil temp sender. Unlike the later 73-76 cars with the circuitry in the main chassis harness.
The 1973-76 cars have the center console gauge harness connections in the main chassis harness under the carpet, the 1970-72 cars do not.
As another little bit of info.
we did find one 74 L jet that was retrofitted with guages and console post production line and the fitment was done by the dealer to utilise the inbuilt wiring in the chassis harness.
the fitment was done at the dealer pre shipment. all the paperwork with the car when it was for sale on BAT about 8 years back showed it clearly that it had been fitted by the dealer.
it was quite unusual as it did not use the sump plate and sender fitted to the factory made cars with the console and guages. instead it was a sender inserted into the oil pressure sensor/sender on top of the engine. i suspect the reason was that it is actually a little difficult to replicate the factory wiring from the sump sender to the top of the engine without dropping the engine. the dealer probably did not wish to do that much work.
the guages are also interesting as they are not factory VDO guages. they are another type fitted into the console. it all appeared to be original to the car from new at the dealer. it was a very original excellent condition car.
my conclusion was that dealers could do the console guages addition as a plug and play easily as all the wiring was there for it all the way to the dashboard. including the sump plate and sender in all the 2.0 engine cars. but it was not such an easy plug and play for the dealers in the 1.8s. hence most of the 1.8s with the console and guages were a factory production line order item to get the sump plate and engine wiring.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104
this was the one and only 74 1.8 that had clear documented evidence of a dealer installed console and gauges (what you call plug and play installation).
you can find it on BAT if you keep on scrolling way back in time.
its right back at the start of the BAT auctions about 8-10 years ago.
(a stunningly original and excellent original condition car, wonder who owns it now,
its never come up for sale again).
the rest of the 74 1.8 console/gauge cars i have on file, and its quite a few correspond to factory installation in 2.0L cars and quite a few of those i had the window sheet document for which list the console/gauge as part of appearance group (ie already in car and factory installed/ordered?).
and i trawled the files on the 74 1.8 s.
79 examples on file.
all have vinyl targa bars except one.
this one.
you can also find it on BAT.
its a very poor condition 1.8 but suprisingly intact.
however it showed evidence of an earlier respray in factory original color.
rear badges missing and fixing holes filled.
overspray on black plastic cowl intact grill.
and when you looked at targa bar there were holes on lhs side for lower targa chrome trim.
my guess is it had the original vinyl stripped off.
i did not turn up a single other 74 1.8 (USA car) without the vinyl.
not saying there were not any, but i did not come across any others in 3 years of collecting examples for L jet files.
i will go back through files again as i am sure there was one other 1.8 i found with the parcel bin besides mine. i know the parcel bin was there from the start in mine.
either dealer installed or factory as i have the lhd drive carpets still and the section under the bin was unfaded and factory fresh. the brown carpets notoriously fade and the tunnle section of mine was the usual faded color where it was exposed to direct UV.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 .
here is some stuff i isolated out a year or so back when i was looking into the targa bar - vinyl question re 74 and 75 base 1.8s. found where i put them in a file.
sales brochures from 75.
German market brochure.
UK market brochure.
French brochure
all three brochures use the same photo.
and its a base 1.8 in classic stripper form with no vinyl for european market.
.....and here is the USA brochure from the same year.
almost identical brochure with the rest of photos like european ones.
but not the car for this particular shot and page in the brochure.
its a vinyl clad targa bar.
but look carefully, the models are the same people dressed the same.
and seem to be out on the same day in a close by location to where they other shot was taken.
it could be they are using an american market car for the shoot.
or it could be the same red euro spec car and the photo has been airbrushed and worked over. (i say this because they did do a work over on the 74 brochure for the USA version and simply airbrushed in the warts - and got them looking not quite right when they did it, made the warts too small. - i can dig that brochure up as well from files).
but they sure went to a bit of trouble to have a different brochure for the USA in 75 and they show no cars with any painted targas. all with vinyl.
I'm thinking every USA car for 75 at minimum had a vinyl targa.
and i'm pretty sure it was the same for 74.
not sure every 1.8 in 74 or 75 for europe was without the vinyl but its possible.
very hard to find out as so few examples of original euro spec 1.8s are out there.
but the couple i have found from old sales ads were all painted targa bars.
and here is the other one from the 75 brochure.
UK, France, Germany all have this shot.
and same page from USA brochure (otherwise very similar).
can't tell if its the same car and same photo but simply airbrushed to make the 1.8 differently portrayed for USA market or they actually rolled a US spec car into exactly the correct position. if they did roll another car in for the shot they were bloody good, very precise. (they add the warts in on both cars too, or vice versa, used american spec cars and airbrushed warts and vinyl targa out as well as changed the white black interior to white - who knows. but i don;t think its two different stagings of the same shot with different cars).
anyway they sure are distinguishing the 1.8s differently in the sales material.
dunno if it proves anything but it matches what i built up in the 1.8 L jet files.
Checking a few archives:
The center gauge console was first offered for the 1973 2.0L and only the 2.0L. I am sure a dealer could get the needed parts and install it in any 914 as has been done many times over the years. See page 19.
https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zMan_1973_Service&TrainingManual.pdf
The targa vinyl became standard on all 914s (except the USA LE cars and apparently the 1.8L ROW market cars) beginning with the 1974 model year. Interestingly (to me anyway) the 1974 914GT (German market LE) had the vinyl, yet the 914SL (Japan market) did not. Its my understanding that Porsche designers wanted to make these limited edition cars in their various markets, be stylistically different from the standard model year cars. See page 5.
https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zMan_1974_2.0_Service&TrainingManual.pdf
Going back to the center cushion questions..
Does anyone know if when the cushion was added to a car, did it count as
a third seat and that provoke the center seat belt to be added and the
change of the foil sticker that says Seating Positions 2, to Seating Positions 2+1.??
Per my OG post my PPS just showed "Seat cushions" under optional equipment, no mention of additional seatbelts as well .
Perhaps Jeff has some info related to a option code for those?
Center seatbelts were optional equipment M166 (US cars) and M186 (ROW cars)
https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm
Does anyone have an idea of how many cars were optioned with the center seat belt.??
And I suppose it would show up on a COA..??
From what I understand the center belt was only offered on early cars.
The 2+1 seating sticker has been shown in another thread..
I’ve only seen center belts in early cars and my understanding is that only early cars had the welded mount for them. The center belt that I just sold came from an early ‘70 that I parted out and cut up. It was a one owner car (before me) but too far gone to repair. Some neat first year only details on that car. Metal round relays, two piece door cards, etc. u would have liked to save it but besides the normal east coast rust, there were panels that couldn’t easily be repaired. The front shock towers were rusted out.
The interesting thing was the original owner drove the car to work in the same town where I grew up. I even rode my bike past his workplace parking lot when I was training. Bought his car 35 years later.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 -i think whatever the option sheet data might have said about it being an option for all cars all years might have been thrown out the window in the USA after 72 due to DOT interlock design rules.
[/quote]
I dunno. The center seat belt mounting brackets can be bolted thru the seatbelt receiver bolts on the later cars. I had it that way in my 74 for awhile. No issues. The price sheets I documented were German market cars...maybe the center seat issue did not apply there?
In 73 it was a "Seatbelt Warning System". Just a dumb 'sit on the passenger seat without being buckled up, and the dash light lights, and a buzzer sounds'.
74-76 it was the "Seatbelt interlock system" that disables the car from starting if not buckled up.
The center seatbelt had no sensors, it was just a convenience for when your honey wanted to snuggle up.
[quote name='JeffBowlsby' date='Apr 3 2024, 10:16 PM' post='3137748']
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 -i think whatever the option sheet data might have said about it being an option for all cars all years might have been thrown out the window in the USA after 72 due to DOT interlock design rules.
[/quote]
I dunno. The center seat belt mounting brackets can be bolted thru the seatbelt receiver bolts on the later cars. I had it that way in my 74 for awhile. No issues. The price sheets I documented were German market cars...maybe the center seat issue did not apply there?
In 73 it was a "Seatbelt Warning System". Just a dumb 'sit on the passenger seat without being buckled up, and the dash light lights, and a buzzer sounds'.
74-76 it was the "Seatbelt interlock system" that disables the car from starting if not buckled up.
The center seatbelt had no sensors, it was just a convenience for when your honey wanted to snuggle up.
[/quote]
aha - the 73 version sounds a bit more harmless than the 74.
that seatbelt interlock and its relay caused me a lot of pain 30 years ago.
i was very happy when i had it taken out of circulation.
hey i have thought about that wiring loom you mentjoned with capacity for guages in 73 and the penny dropped while i was taking a train ride to one of my job sites today.
i think you might have just explained why the 1,7 engines only have two painted code numbers on them in contrast to the 4 codes on the 1.8 engines in 74 and 75.
i'll post the theory later after i have reduced it in words to something simple.
but you got my brain turning it over and i have had a light bulb moment.
might be a mad lightbulb moment but it did light up.
i've also worked out some details of my car and its original purchase from the discussions in this thread and confirmation by @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 re spec of the base 74 and 75 1.8
in all the documentation that came with my car 35 years ago, a window sticker was missing. so can never confirm the factory order spec.
but it might be time for me to talk to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1244
however there were two 73 brochures. one is a big brochure and the other is the fabric and paint phamplet. the brown interior is ticked. my car has a brown interior.
and on the ext colors page is handwriting that says "which paint color?" same handwriting as in some pages of glove box manual. #1 is summer yellow.
#2 is signal orange. my car is phoenix red.
i conclude the original owners were looking at a car in 1973 and made the decision to place an order and buy in 74.
they were probably looking at a 73 1,7 appearance group in the showroom?
and now i know a base 1,8 in 74 was pretty close in most ways to an appearance group 1,7 in 73. all that was missing was the parcel bin! - pretty much.
probably explains the parcel bin in mine? deliberate request and must have been a stronger preference to them than guages and console of the 74 1.8 A.G.
its unsual. i have only stumbled across one or two other 74 1.8s with the package bin.
nearly all are either nothing or the A.G console/guage set up.
they also special ordered in the sway bars.
looks to me like nothing else.
just a base 18 with the bin and the sway bars.
like you did not have to do much to a base 1.8 in 74 to have a car virtually identical to a full spec 1.7 from 73.
pretty clear that one thing the original owners agreed on as husband and wife was it had to have a brown interior. very 1974 fashion/taste.
the husband i bought the car off said it was his late wife's car.
she had kept it and would not part with it.
i reckon she might have been the one who was specific about the parcel bin?
its an early L jet from the first 3 months of production.
so its on the cusp of the end of 73s being in the showroom and the first arrival of the batch of new models coming in.
here is a mission for you @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 .
its to do with LEs.
it might get one more engine stamp number.
for 1974
all USA 2.0s were GA engines with 621 stamp.
(low comression 7.6 : 1, 95 hp.)
European 2.0s were GB engines with 620 stamp.
(high comression 8.0:1, 100 hp).
but japan
definitely the high compression engine.
8.0:1.
and japan had introduced the vapor emission system.
(along with australia).
europe did not have vapor emission system.
so its a unique engine. euro compression internals and vapor emission system.
see images below. matsuda 914 engine bay has the can in it like all usa 74s.
which meant it had to have a drilled out fan casting with the inset sleeved tube to take the blower bleed hose to the charcoal cannister. euro cars did not have that.
and given the engines were built in hanover that meant it had to be built that particular way and identified so the correct engine was delivered at osnabruk and put in the right car on the assembly line.
i'm betting that matsude 914 that @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=4947 has in his collection has neither 620 or 621 stamped on it. ie it won't have a ROW number on it just because its not a USA engine. but it will be likely in the 62....X range. maybe 622?
maybe you can find out?
its interesting in terms of LE information and more broadly.
(it means there would have been a range of J spec engine stamp code numbers because they are all euro spec internals with USA vapor emission provision on the blower casting).
it will be further evidence for my theory on engine stamp numbers.
remembering its only a theory.
NICE. Verifying the engine tin number on the Matsuda Bumblebee would be in @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=4947 wheelhouse.
i'm pretty sure its 74 that australia introduces the charcoal cannister evap system as a design rule. and......thats the reason you could not privately import post 73 model 914s. the two crayfords cars that came in were 73 models and a note was made in an australian motor magazine test/review that the car they were testing would be the last as 74s were no longer permissable. japan is either at the same time ---- 74 model year or a year earlier in 73. so i'm not entirely sure if 73 J spec cars got evap.
but 74 models definitely did.
found out a little bit more on japanese and australian emissions regulations.
australia introduced ADR27 for calendar year cars 1974.
japan had very similar standards in place for calendar year 1973.
both countries modeled the standards (reg) very much based on USA emissions standards that had commended in 1970 calendar year (ie late 70MY early 71MY usa market cars).
cars for japan and australia were to be equipped with evap system, closed crankcase ventilation systems (pcv) and also meet tailpipe emissions for set standards of NOX, HCPPM and CO. the important distinction was that neither japan or aust had a tight time line set for unleaded fuel introduction. in australia's case that does not come into effect until 1984. not sure on japan deadline date but its sometime well after 1973.
hence cars for japan (and theoretically aus) could retain high compression engines running on higher octane leaded. it was unleaded fuel that caused the primary drop in performance in USA market cars as compression ratios had to be lowered.
so - a J market 73 car had to have PCV, EVAP System and meet tailpipe emissions probably very similar to USA 71MY cars.
i haven't found a 73 J market car with sufficient documentation in original condition to verify the EVAP system inclusion. however its clear from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=4947 's limited documentation that the matsuda 74 LE does have it.
its also an insight into why misawa might have dropped the 1.8 from its imported range in 1974. at that point the ROW 1.8 was a twin carb high compression motor with no emissions gear tailored for euro market. it would have been extremely unlikely that it could have passed 73 J tailpipe emissions in its euro form. as an alternative the L jet 1.8 was an unleaded fuel car well down on power. so they just gave up on that one?
the 2.0 L euro high compression engine would have been tweakable on tailpipe emissions standards yet still have retained its higher euro power due to higher compression.
its also the explanation for the 73MY cutoff for crayfords rhd converted cars for private import into aus. the crayfords business model was in alliance with malaya motors UK and cars were UK spec cars set up for UK regs (headlights, etc). as such did not meet ADR27. no EVAP and likely non compliance with tailpipe emissions = end of the road for a private import RHD 914 for australia. (note cars had to be RHD in aust).
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