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914World.com _ Originality and History _ NLA Parts
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 2 2006, 07:31 PM
After reading a number of posts on the main forum & seeing that this part & that part are NLA, I was thinking (dangerous!) - let's put together a list of those parts that are NLA & get ideas on how to deal with it. Ex: apparently the gas pedal is now NLA. What's to be done when you need a replacement?
Many of these parts are important to both concours & regular 914 people. So how do we deal with thier non-availability?
I'll nail this thread if the feedback is worth it. I think we can all benefit from it. Guess I've lost touch since I haven't had to buy many parts for some years (stocked up in the 80's). But, some of the basics are NLA these days & how do we deal with it?
Posted by: sixerdon Jun 2 2006, 08:39 PM
It seems like the NLA parts issue is getting like it was with the 356's back in the 70's. NOS cache and quality used parts are the only viable answer. It's going to be a long list.
I'll start with the needs of an original windshield with VW and/or Audi on it. 356's and 911's have plenty of replacements.
Don
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 3 2006, 02:15 AM
I thought about doing this a few times. Then reality sets in. I actually enjoy making these kinds of lists, but this one would be never ending I think. I would start it as a worksheet with PN, Part name, Availabel aftrmarket or other solution. If every NLA grommet, trim part and body panel were included, the list would go on forever. Then again is it that important to be comprehensive of every NLA part? Some are obvious, like fenders, Targa tops, rear window glass...no one would really benefit from this info. What may be good info to document is things like where to find good substitutes for those pesky NLA black plastic rivets, or weatherstripping.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 3 2006, 06:46 AM
Hi guys,
I hate to say it, but the simple answer to NLA parts is a fat checkbook!!!! Someone will always have it and if you really need it you have to step up with the money $$. Having said all this the second answer is repo parts. Having been a past member of the V/8 Club of America many of my past friends started mfg Repo parts for the NLA parts demand. Some of them now have now quit their jobs to manage successful new businesses.
I believe any 914 entusiast should start looking at 914 Repo parts as a sideline business then grow it to whatever??? In summary I believe the NLA parts delimina is Repo parts. Start with the plastic (white & black) rivets?? Lots of plastic parts on a 914.
Tom
BTW
A V/8 friend of mine started furnishing package kits of nuts & bolts for the guy who didn't want the hassle. He is now retired having sold the business. Think Repo!!!!!
Posted by: Part Pricer Jun 3 2006, 09:06 AM
...apparently the gas pedal is now NLA.
I don't know where you got that from. The accelerator pedal IS available from dealers and other OEM suppliers. You can get pricing and availability from the usual suspects on my http://partpricer.com/702-00.html. (Sorry, GPR's catalog is temporarily off-line)
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 3 2006, 09:08 AM
More of my 2-cents worth.
Any Repo parts must be made to OEM or better standards. Cheap repo's will not sell. Make only the best quality and it will sell.
Also
Start hording away all NLA parts you can. Go to the dealer and buy it now or pay later. That's what I do. If you don't use it, sell it later for a nice markup. NLA parts are drying up, so the answer is Repo stuff.
Tom
BTW
Here's a few things I put away. Example: I recently purchased the white plastic cups for the trunk @ $2.54 each.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 3 2006, 04:32 PM
More of my 2-cents worth.
Any Repo parts must be made to OEM or better standards. Cheap repo's will not sell. Make only the best quality and it will sell.
Also
Start hording away all NLA parts you can. Go to the dealer and buy it now or pay later. That's what I do. If you don't use it, sell it later for a nice markup. NLA parts are drying up, so the answer is Repo stuff.
Tom
But, this brings up another issue - rubber! We all know how $$ these parts can be and if we stockpile them, what's the best storage medium. Hate to think about pouring a bunch of bucks into rubber I'll need in 10 years, only to find the pieces rotted in the parts bag when I want them. I imagine the best way to store them would be in plastic bags that have been evacuated. You can buy those devices for storing food items at a fairly cheap price. Seems to me that if you could store them with no air that they'd last a lot longer.
20 years ago I bought enough fabric covered fuel & vacuum lines to last my lifetime. Now I'm beginning to wonder if they will, or even if they're still all that usable right now.
However, back to the original post. I agree, we all know about the non-availability of some major components, but what about the guy who's pondering a major redo of his 914. He may think that insignificant pieces are out there to make his car new again, including grommets, seals,etc. Wouldn't a list of NLA mini items be of value? When I redid all the little bits & pieces of my car, I simply went to Stoddard with a list, money & got them all - can't do that anymore & I'd have been very surprised if that were the case then. I'll be more than happy to spreadsheet a list if people will send me the info. Or...if I knew a source for this info online I'd research it myself.
Posted by: JPB Jun 3 2006, 05:01 PM
Simply said, we all need a few beaters in the yard or in a garage for parts down the road. The better the inventory, the better the glory. I have seen many 914 on Evil-bay with no papers cheap. I think thats the way to go. I just purchased an accelerator pedal for 35$ off of ebay a couple of months ago. Noone was bidding for it. Go figure?
Posted by: GWN7 Jun 3 2006, 05:10 PM
What degrades rubber and plastic is ozone and UV light. UV is the trigger that creates ozone.
As ozone is made when ultraviolet light from the sun splits an oxygen molecule (O2), forming two single oxygen atoms. Each single oxygen atom then binds to an oxygen molecule to form ozone. Stratospheric ozone has been called "good" ozone because it protects the Earth's surface from dangerous ultraviolet light.
"bad ozone" Ozone can also be found in the troposphere, the lowest layer of the atmosphere. Tropospheric ozone (often termed "bad" ozone) is man-made, a result of air pollution from internal combustion engines and power plants. Automobile exhaust and industrial emissions release a family of nitrogen oxide gases (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC), by-products of burning gasoline and coal. NOx and VOC combine chemically with oxygen to form ozone during sunny, high-temperature conditions of late spring, summer and early fall. High levels of ozone are usually formed in the heat of the afternoon and early evening, dissipating during the cooler nights.
Ozone is used as a bleach, a deodorizing agent, and a sterilization agent for air and drinking water. At low concentrations, it is toxic.
Although ozone pollution is formed mainly in urban and suburban areas, it ends up in rural areas as well, carried by prevailing winds or resulting from cars and trucks that travel into rural areas. Significant levels of ozone pollution can be detected in rural areas as far as 150 miles (250 km) downwind from urban industrial zones.
Because ozone is very corrosive, it damages the material it comes in contact with.
So the UV reacts with the chemical makeup of the material and ozone helps further damage it.
So the best way to store plastic and rubber parts is in a sealed bag, in a cool, dark place.
Having said that if the cool dark place is next to a ozone water treatment system in your basement (and you live in a major city) you just slowing the process.
Posted by: tod914 Jun 3 2006, 07:06 PM
what kind of cost is involved with haveing the nla grommets and such reproduced??
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 3 2006, 07:53 PM
What degrades rubber and plastic is ozone and UV light. UV is the trigger that creates ozone.
As ozone is made when ultraviolet light from the sun splits an oxygen molecule (O2), forming two single oxygen atoms. Each single oxygen atom then binds to an oxygen molecule to form ozone. Stratospheric ozone has been called "good" ozone because it protects the Earth's surface from dangerous ultraviolet light.
"bad ozone" Ozone can also be found in the troposphere, the lowest layer of the atmosphere. Tropospheric ozone (often termed "bad" ozone) is man-made, a result of air pollution from internal combustion engines and power plants. Automobile exhaust and industrial emissions release a family of nitrogen oxide gases (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC), by-products of burning gasoline and coal. NOx and VOC combine chemically with oxygen to form ozone during sunny, high-temperature conditions of late spring, summer and early fall. High levels of ozone are usually formed in the heat of the afternoon and early evening, dissipating during the cooler nights.
Ozone is used as a bleach, a deodorizing agent, and a sterilization agent for air and drinking water. At low concentrations, it is toxic.
Although ozone pollution is formed mainly in urban and suburban areas, it ends up in rural areas as well, carried by prevailing winds or resulting from cars and trucks that travel into rural areas. Significant levels of ozone pollution can be detected in rural areas as far as 150 miles (250 km) downwind from urban industrial zones.
Because ozone is very corrosive, it damages the material it comes in contact with.
So the UV reacts with the chemical makeup of the material and ozone helps further damage it.
So the best way to store plastic and rubber parts is in a sealed bag, in a cool, dark place.
Having said that if the cool dark place is next to a ozone water treatment system in your basement (and you live in a major city) you just slowing the process.
Interesting! I see similarities here in laying down good wine for future use.
I'd forgotten about the ozone effects on rubber - thanks for thr re-education. Are you certain about the toxicity of LOW concentrations? Enlighten us.
Posted by: GWN7 Jun 3 2006, 08:47 PM
When you inhale ozone, it travels throughout your respiratory tract. Because ozone is very corrosive, it damages the bronchioles and alveoli in your lungs, air sacs that are important for gas exchange. Repeated exposure to ozone can inflame lung tissues and cause respiratory infections.
Ozone exposure can aggravate existing respiratory conditions such as asthma, reduce your lung function and capacity for exercise and cause chest pains and coughing. Young children and the elderly are most susceptible to the high levels of ozone encountered during the summer.
In addition to effects on humans, the corrosive nature of ozone can damage plants and trees. High levels of ozone can destroy agricultural crops and forest vegetation.
To protect yourself from ozone exposure, you should be aware of the Air Quality Index (AQI) in your area everyday -- you can usually find it in the newspaper or on a morning weather forecast on TV or radio. You should also be familiar with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) guide for ozone-alert values.
What do the numbers in the AQI mean? The AQI measures concentrations of five air pollutants: ozone, sulfur dioxide, particulate matter, carbon monoxide and nitrogen dioxide. The EPA has chosen these pollutants as criteria pollutants, but these are not all of the pollutants in the air. These concentrations are compared to a standard set out in federal law. An index value of 100 means that all of the criteria pollutants are at the maximum level that is considered safe for the majority of the population. To reduce your exposure to ozone, you should avoid exercising during afternoon and early evening hours in the summer.
Craig C. Freudenrich, Ph.D.
For more information and links: http://science.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=ozone-pollution.htm&url=http://www.epa.gov/oar/oaqps/gooduphigh/
BTW the rubber stuff I build is UV stable. Which means that they won't breakdown very easyly, but it will happen over time like the original parts.
For more info on UV and it's effects on material: http://gcrio.org/ozone/chapter7.pdf
Posted by: GWN7 Jun 3 2006, 09:13 PM
what kind of cost is involved with haveing the nla grommets and such reproduced??
My intention is to be able to offer a lot of the NLA parts. I have just purchased the machinery to allow me to manufacture lens. Same machinery will hopefully allow me to be able to make the window end caps (which I have been working on for over a year). As to exact cost, it depends on the item....it's complexity of the angles, if it has a metal insert (such as the front windshield seal or bumper tops) and the type of material it was made from originaly.
A lot of the grommets while not available from Porsche are available from other sources (that's where Porsche bought them from).
If you find a part that is truly NLA and I mean you have asked for it at your local Porsche dealership and then called (not just looked on their web sites) the big 4 (GPR, Pelican, Stoddard and AA) and you still can't find it send me a PM with the details and I'll see what I can do.
Also if anyone is attending the WCC this year, I'll have samples of some of the stuff I've been working on with me. Just ask.
Posted by: boxstr Jun 3 2006, 10:44 PM
Repo Is a great idea. You can easily find people willing to take your ideas and repo them at the SEMA show. They are usually their in another exhibition hall and they come from all over the world. India and China are the two countries that are best suited to supply rubber items.
With that said, it can be done, and once you have done it who do you sell it to.
Sorry but my feeling is that after all of the R&D and setup costs, you need to recoup your costs, and to be able to do this you have to charge for it. My experinece is that 914 owners are not going to pay the price. I spent over a year researching and perfecting the recovering of the 914 dashpad and the targa bar pad. With my prices set as low as I could and make a very small profit I have sold 2 dashpads and 3 targa bar pads. In one years time.
If I was doing the same thing for the Mopars or American iron I could sell all I could make, they will pay for the repro items.
So, go ahead and knock yourself out. And good luck.
Craig
Posted by: 914runnow Jun 4 2006, 01:06 AM
After 30g in mine and it STILL is on jack stands..
Good luck..on your list..
I started in 95 with one..and got disenchanted
with it....Porsche has the chair..I am on the left 
or me trying to order parts from Stoddards 
I guess you get the idea...
If yah wannah list I will put my points in..
But I believe it will really be not much interest..
C'ept to us..
This will be a big set of diapers to keep changing..
Sorry for the negativity.. 
But I could start diggin in my notes I guess...
Okay batter up..
Who'z first????????? 
Posted by: tod914 Jun 4 2006, 07:20 AM
Seems there are a fair amount of engineers on this board. Would be nice if various gromet kits were available. Engine bays, fuel line with associated fasteners etc. Like you said, how many are really going to sell.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 4 2006, 08:13 AM
Craig,
So, sorry about all the work that went into the dash pad & targa bar pad. I forgot the 914 crowd is cheap. I should say 80% are cheap (real cheap) and 20% are normal buyers.
My rant 
Anyone who puts effort into repo parts should get a decent return on investment. That being said forget the 914 market. I get so annoyed listening to these cheap complainers wanting something cheap with buy back guarantees. I wish they would get out of the 914 market and collect something they can afford. These cheapo people ruin it for the true 914 entrepreneur. End of my rant. You get the idea. I don't like complainers.
I guess the repo market for 914 is slim & not worth the investment till things change. It's not like the V/8 Ford Club & others with deeper pockets. I am back to my original thoughts, collect your oun parts and worry about taking care of your own future 914.
Tom
Posted by: boxstr Jun 4 2006, 09:52 AM
In hindsight , if I had made the bling bling goodies for the 914, I would be sold out. The majority of the 914 population would rather put a useless nonesense item on their 914 and have a ratty looking interior or exterior. But look at this cool flapdigit cover I got off ebay.
I will contiue the route that I started and leave the repro items to others.
I will preface this with there are those who will pay for a new seal or new seats, an dTom I have to say that you are correct in that most of those 914 owners are subscribed to the concours forum.
Craig
Posted by: rdauenhauer Jun 4 2006, 12:10 PM
Ok so my commentary,
It discourages me the sort of elitest attitudes displayed in this particular forum
I participate because I among others are trying to a restore a car, and am interested in details to make it "correct"and complete.
At the end of the day there is still a raging debate wether any such efforts afforded the 914 are WORTH IT.
I am doing it because Its fun, and dont really care how many "POINTS" the car will win or lose at compititions or how much $ I can make selling after its complete.
I havent lost sight of the fact that the reason I got into this particulare model is because it WAS CHEAP, only after did I recognize it true merits.
I imaging Im not alone. So blasting an entire group for being CSOB's because you personally decide to speculate on the potential value for a bit of rubber, hose or focus engery to reproduce this or that widget only to find your desired margin dosent exist I think is 
I agree with a comment earlier, pick yourself up a couple of cheap complete cars, I did. Youll find you will have most what you need.
So back to the topic of NLA part: I would guess the vast majority of these parts are the High wear, accident destroyed, or parts the factory didnt feel were likley to be replaced so fewer spares were created.
I personnaly will pay RESONABLE amount for any such part. If you are trying to horde and gouge the community for those pieces, well.... 
your should call up Hussy you two would probably get along just fine 
I think a list is a good idea, including alternate suppliers and origingal MSPR so folks can make informed choices.
Remember Customer service is still an key to any merchant relationship. $ isnt the only one.
Posted by: tod914 Jun 4 2006, 12:34 PM
A list of non oem substitute parts would be great.. especailly for those grommets and nla trim pieces, etc. I'm real curious how much some of these things can be produced for. For example, a throttle body gasket.. I found a few places online that make custom gaskets. I'll see whats involved next week.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 4 2006, 02:25 PM
Rich,
Don't be overly sensitive to these posts. No elitest attitude was intended. I was just supporting the hard working 914 people trying to furnish repo parts. The truth is they must get a return on their time. This 80% crowd just dosn't want to support fair pricing. There will always be 914er's like yourself needing help and willing to buy quality. Untill things change It makes no sense to lose time & effort in a bad market. Even though this is a hobby it's also a business and vendors need to make money.
Tom
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 4 2006, 04:02 PM
A list of non oem substitute parts would be great.. especailly for those grommets and nla trim pieces, etc. I'm real curious how much some of these things can be produced for. For example, a throttle body gasket.. I found a few places online that make custom gaskets. I'll see whats involved next week.
I'd bet that if it could be done cost effectively, there would be a decent market for these gaskets, as well as the elusive white or black rocker/sill rivets. Can't wait to hear what you find out.
And, to the comments of Rich & Tom. I agree with both of you (how's that for chickensh_t). But, if we were an elitist group, would we be driving 914's? Hell, the first 2 years I had my 914 I couldn't get a 356 or 911 to flash lights back at me. Then I whipped 'em soundly in a concours & got some respect. Unless you're driving a real 916 you can't be an elitist with a 914.
Now you 2 shake hands & forget it.
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 4 2006, 05:38 PM
My 914 parts-making experience has another perspective.
For reasons I dont understand, most of the 914 owners on this board seem to be more interested in "How can I make my 914 better, faster, cooler, whatever?"...than enjoy the car the way the factory made it. To me there is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, each is different and there is an element of both tugging inside of me. Anyone who knows me knows that my main interest is in enjoying the beauty of the factory original 914.
For other reasons I dont fully understand, I saw the need for and developed the replacement 914 wiring harness products that I have been making now for about 6-7 years. Many 914 owners on this board are my customers, yet surprisingly, most are not. I do not know where they hear of my harnesses, but probably 75% of my customers are not participants in this place, that I know of. Each customer is important to me and I do what I can to meet the needs of each one.
Most of you know I build the 914/4 engine bay harnesses in stock configuration - Fuel injection, Ignition and Alternator. I also repair these same harnesses where that makes more sense. Recently I have finished the development of the 914 wiper delay harnesses and am now finalizing the development of a universal aftermarket 914 fuel injection (PEFI) harnesses. These are 914 products developed just for the 914/4. The market for these is small, but consistent. Meets my needs perfectly.
My primary intention for the harnesses, and its been successful, was to help keep these great cars on the road, with a high quality product at a reasonable cost. I tried to pick a unique product to invest my time and energy into. The engine bay wiring harnesses take alot of abuse and are not available new from any other source, and so there has always a good demand for them. I build harnesses virtually every weekend, either for customers or for inventory. I am not making huge profit on them, but at the same time I do not spend every spare moment building harnesses, I have a demanding regular job. I could expand the business and make a living at it though if I wanted to, but I do not.
So I have a product most 914 owners need or want, no one else provides and I feel like I am providing something essential to the 914 community. I am happy. 
Look what great thngs James and Heidi have done for carpeting and other upgrade items. I would focus on the things that are not available elsewhere. Other NLA 914 product businesses that could be successful, that I would persue if I had the time include:
Refinishing stock Targa tops
Building tinted plex Targa tops
Molding US tailight lenses, rubber grommets
Making GOOD weatherstripping where OEM is not available
Fabricating MPS diaphragms/rebuilding MPS
Fabricating heat exchangers
Offering refinished products on exchange - Interior bits-painted parts, engine tin, relay boards etc
Reproduction labels
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 4 2006, 08:00 PM
My 914 parts-making experience has another perspective.
For reasons I dont understand, most of the 914 owners on this board seem to be more interested in "How can I make my 914 better, faster, cooler, whatever?"...than enjoy the car the way the factory made it. To me there is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, each is different and there is an element of both tugging inside of me. Anyone who knows me knows that my main interest is in enjoying the beauty of the factory original 914.
For other reasons I dont fully understand, I saw the need for and developed the replacement 914 wiring harness products that I have been making now for about 6-7 years. Many 914 owners on this board are my customers, yet surprisingly, most are not. I do not know where they hear of my harnesses, but probably 75% of my customers are not participants in this place, that I know of. Each customer is important to me and I do what I can to meet the needs of each one.
Most of you know I build the 914/4 engine bay harnesses in stock configuration - Fuel injection, Ignition and Alternator. I also repair these same harnesses where that makes more sense. Recently I have finished the development of the 914 wiper delay harnesses and am now finalizing the development of a universal aftermarket 914 fuel injection (PEFI) harnesses. These are 914 products developed just for the 914/4. The market for these is small, but consistent. Meets my needs perfectly.
My primary intention for the harnesses, and its been successful, was to help keep these great cars on the road, with a high quality product at a reasonable cost. I tried to pick a unique product to invest my time and energy into. The engine bay wiring harnesses take alot of abuse and are not available new from any other source, and so there has always a good demand for them. I build harnesses virtually every weekend, either for customers or for inventory. I am not making huge profit on them, but at the same time I do not spend every spare moment building harnesses, I have a demanding regular job. I could expand the business and make a living at it though if I wanted to, but I do not.
So I have a product most 914 owners need or want, no one else provides and I feel like I am providing something essential to the 914 community. I am happy.
Look what great thngs James and Heidi have done for carpeting and other upgrade items. I would focus on the things that are not available elsewhere. Other NLA 914 product businesses that could be successful, that I would persue if I had the time include:
Refinishing stock Targa tops
Building tinted plex Targa tops
Molding US tailight lenses, rubber grommets
Making GOOD weatherstripping where OEM is not available
Fabricating MPS diaphragms/rebuilding MPS
Fabricating heat exchangers
Offering refinished products on exchange - Interior bits-painted parts, engine tin, relay boards etc
Reproduction labels
Well said, my friend! "If you build it, they will come" When I have my need, I know where you are.
You are a true enthusiast! PG
Posted by: GWN7 Jun 4 2006, 08:57 PM
I got into making stuff because I'm a CSB ...I needed a top holder for the 70 car and couldn't see myself paying $20 + a Ebay fee + shipping that a guy was selling them for on Ebay. Mind you the first one I did cost me way more than that.
I control my costs buy not having to buy huge inventorys of goods and waiting for them to sell and I enjoy making stuff. The winters are long and there is only so much TV a person can watch.
Posted by: 914runnow Jun 5 2006, 02:06 AM
Oh man..Has this morphed into a side bar topic..??
Back to the main body of the topic..
Will a list go forward??
AND there needs to be categories of the groups..
So as each item can be 'pigeon holed' correctly..
Also a list of the repro items, and quality ratings??
Will be glad to put in my items..As I run into
or find my 10 year old list...
Also NLA in what category of supplier??
Porsche might be out...
BUT there still could be some at Perf. Prods.
I guess you get my drift...
Trying to track down all sources to see if they are out
isahbuncha phone calls..
Sooooo is a psuedo list the answer to what we have
experienced in a actual order as opposed to hearsay??
itz 2 in the morn>time to zzzzzzzzzzz............ ![yellowsleep[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 5 2006, 06:10 PM
Oh man..Has this morphed into a side bar topic..??
Back to the main body of the topic..
Will a list go forward??
AND there needs to be categories of the groups..
So as each item can be 'pigeon holed' correctly..
Also a list of the repro items, and quality ratings??
Will be glad to put in my items..As I run into
or find my 10 year old list...
Also NLA in what category of supplier??
Porsche might be out...
BUT there still could be some at Perf. Prods.
I guess you get my drift...
Trying to track down all sources to see if they are out
isahbuncha phone calls..
Sooooo is a psuedo list the answer to what we have
experienced in a actual order as opposed to hearsay??
itz 2 in the morn>time to zzzzzzzzzzz............
Now you have be scared. How many parts can be on a 914? 1000, 2000, 3000? Maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but I'm still willing to(with the help of gurus) TRY to put a list together of NLA parts & alternatives. I have a very goos friend who's getting ready for the resto of his '70 that he's had since about '74 & I wanted him to know what he's in for & where to get the little parts. Won't hurt me either. So, can we get started on this? Who's got the groundwork started? Gimmee.
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 5 2006, 06:49 PM
I think it would be more useful to reprint the parts manual pages with visual locations of each part, then cross reference it to NLA or replacement part info. Having a worksheet without pictures will be just a list of nakes and numbers like
"Grommet 021335684 NLA" and not knowing really which part this is, or where it goes.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 5 2006, 07:31 PM
Hi Pat,
Stop don't do it. The NLA list will be obsolete as soon as you start. NLA parts are changing as I type this note. I believe Jeff B's comments and others are enough. I would advise anyone starting a restoration to start with a plan. First budget your money before starting any restoration.
#1
Condition of 914 with a (breakdown) list of body work, motor work and parts required.
Body work/rust restoration will take anywhere from 0 hours to 1000 manhours hours @ $?? per hr.
Show paint job is a minimum of 600 manhours @ $?? per hr. (plus paint materials @ $1,500 dollars, plus)
Motor work is probably easy to figure or budget $5,000 to $8,000 dollars.
Chrome plating @ $2,000 dollars. (front & rear bumpers will be half this figure).
Misc services (anodizing, polishing, nuts, bolts, etc) @ $4.000 dollars.
Parts: This is the big one. I would estimate in todays market of NLA parts the cost of available 914 parts will be $25,000 dollars. Example: I spent $15,000 dollars on everything (10) years ago when prices were reasonable & parts were available. I could part out my 914 & make more money than selling it.
Anyway, back to the NLA parts list. $25K is a huge number, but believe me today you will spend this amount if you restore a 914 to show concours quality. Now if you add labor costs hid the list from the wife.
I welcome comments on my summary of NLA parts costs & 914 available parts. Sometimes it's better to take out a second mortgage and buy Steve's 914 or start collecting parts for your long term future restoration. I suggest you purchase whatever you can find now because 914 parts (good parts) are disappearing. It's not about a list of NLA parts but how much you can afford to spend $$(today). Remember were talking about a concours quality parts, not used junk parts.
Tom
BTW: If Steve or Pat were selling their 914 it would be a bargin at $30K. You can't restore or duplicate 914's for this amount. This is getting to be a very expensive hobby. I know a lot of us will say no 914 is worth that much. I am just thankful I did mine (10) years ago. Flame away ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 5 2006, 07:51 PM
Hey Guys,
I just read my last message & I know I am off the subject matter. What I am trying to tell our newby's, be carefull about purchasing NLA & concourse quality parts. Availabity & today's cost is overwhelming when you get started. The first thing you need to do is purchase a 914 Porsche parts book. Study everything and start wheeling, dealing and looking for the best prices. Go to swap meets, buy things you can trade or sell off for profits. Lots of small items are still available from Porsche.
One man's NLA list is another man's selling list. Someone also said buy a parts car & buy quality. You will save money in the long term.
Tom
Posted by: 914runnow Jun 5 2006, 11:12 PM
I am sure we ALL have our restoration and upkeep stories..
Just my hardware from Porsche for my nut n bolt resto
job tilted the scales at over 2g..And still climbing.....That
has been since 94... 
BUT shall we go ahead with this project or...
Drive our cars now and wait for winter..?? 
And answer this mans questions as his project unfolds.?. 
I agree with 20 to 30g$ in a car>good paint is a hit of 5g if
you take the parts off and reassemble yourself..
BUT BUT BUT::: we should really start a new thread on this as to allow the onlookers to see what is involved..In either maintaining or the insane
accurate reassembly of these cars..
Could 'Shed Some Light' as to the price issue with 914's and the
parts..
So club members could look on and gain some 'perspective'
and put in their thoughts or experience..
WHATCHATHINK???? 
Posted by: McMark Jun 6 2006, 01:28 AM
Collecting a list of NLA parts comes down to two things. A complete list of 914 part numbers and someone with a lot of phone time to bug dealers and parts pushers. There is a TON of hear-say as to what parts are NLA. A perfect example is in this very thread. Are accelerator pedals NLA? (rhetorical question) IMHO, any list that doesn't come from the horse's mouth is severely flawed.
I'm am 100% dedicated to keeping these cars on the road and doing everything we can to reproduce quality parts that are no longer available as well as custom parts that were never available before. That being said, I don't think an NLA list is the direction in which to put effort. There have been a few threads in the Garage over the last few years asking, "What would you like to see reproduced?" And there is a lot of good info in those threads. That would be a great place to start. It's not the list that's going to kill you. It's getting set up and actually selling the parts without killing yourself. That is one of the directions that I would like to see the 914Club go. Once the club store comes back online we can collect a small profit on the parts sales and use that money to help put on events around the country as well as invest the capital necessary to have production runs of these parts made. It is difficult for most individuals to invest that kind of money, and honestly I'd rather have someone do the leg work and put in the time and not have to worry about the money. There are a lot of dedicated people in our club who can make these things happen with a little financial backing.
WHEW!
Tom, $25k is about right to fully restore a 914 on your own. I'm doing a $40k VW Squareback project. 
There is a lot that goes into these cars and you're spot on with your numbers. 
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 6 2006, 02:43 PM
you could use the PDF below as a starting point. fresh from porsche classic ...
http://www.914world.com/cantnamethisdownloads/D_914_KATALOG.pdf
Andy
Posted by: markb Jun 6 2006, 06:21 PM
Andy, any chance that's available in english?
Posted by: tod914 Jun 6 2006, 07:02 PM
No need, Andy said he'll quit his day job and translate it.
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 6 2006, 08:17 PM
Hi Pat,
Stop don't do it. The NLA list will be obsolete as soon as you start. NLA parts are changing as I type this note. I believe Jeff B's comments and others are enough. I would advise anyone starting a restoration to start with a plan. First budget your money before starting any restoration.
#1
Condition of 914 with a (breakdown) list of body work, motor work and parts required.
Body work/rust restoration will take anywhere from 0 hours to 1000 manhours hours @ $?? per hr.
Show paint job is a minimum of 600 manhours @ $?? per hr. (plus paint materials @ $1,500 dollars, plus)
Motor work is probably easy to figure or budget $5,000 to $8,000 dollars.
Chrome plating @ $2,000 dollars. (front & rear bumpers will be half this figure).
Misc services (anodizing, polishing, nuts, bolts, etc) @ $4.000 dollars.
Parts: This is the big one. I would estimate in todays market of NLA parts the cost of available 914 parts will be $25,000 dollars. Example: I spent $15,000 dollars on everything (10) years ago when prices were reasonable & parts were available. I could part out my 914 & make more money than selling it.
Anyway, back to the NLA parts list. $25K is a huge number, but believe me today you will spend this amount if you restore a 914 to show concours quality. Now if you add labor costs hid the list from the wife.
I welcome comments on my summary of NLA parts costs & 914 available parts. Sometimes it's better to take out a second mortgage and buy Steve's 914 or start collecting parts for your long term future restoration. I suggest you purchase whatever you can find now because 914 parts (good parts) are disappearing. It's not about a list of NLA parts but how much you can afford to spend $$(today). Remember were talking about a concours quality parts, not used junk parts.
Tom
BTW: If Steve or Pat were selling their 914 it would be a bargin at $30K. You can't restore or duplicate 914's for this amount. This is getting to be a very expensive hobby. I know a lot of us will say no 914 is worth that much. I am just thankful I did mine (10) years ago. Flame away
Tom,
Thank you for the kind comment. $30k sounds pretty radical to me! Two major problems with selling my 914 - (1) After nearly 34 years of enthusiasm with this car it would truly be like selling a family member! Only way anyone's ever going to get this car away from me is when I croak & then you'll have to deal w/my wife, who's always been just as enthused. (2) What would I do with 30k? Start all over again with another 14. Yeah, it could go a long way towards that bone-stock 6 I want, but not at the cost of giving up "Fritz" (yeah, I kno it's corny, but my wife named it that the day we brought it home in August 1972).
Nope, I think this one's a keeper.
After reading all the comments about a NLA parts list, I ahve to agree with you guys - it's impossible to maintain. If you want to know if something is available, call a reputable parts house or, better yet, ask this group.
Pat G
Posted by: JackB Jun 15 2006, 10:52 PM
My modest addition to the NLA list: 914/6 muffler. (If I'm wrong, please let me know where I can find one!)
Jack
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 16 2006, 02:15 PM
Hello Jack & welcome aboard!!
Are you the Jack from up state NY ??? The Jack with the 914-4 & 914-6 & a friend of Gary's??? Anyway happy to have you posting.
Tom
Posted by: JackB Jun 16 2006, 05:52 PM
Hi, Tom. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm in south Florida. I've had my /6 for about 10 years now. Tangerine. All original except repaint, ss headers, S front calipers and 2.7. Oh, yeah, NOS Euro front driving lights in place of the US fogs. I only do modifications that are not permanent. Other than that....original.
Jack
Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 16 2006, 07:37 PM
Hi, Tom. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm in south Florida. I've had my /6 for about 10 years now. Tangerine. All original except repaint, ss headers, S front calipers and 2.7. Oh, yeah, NOS Euro front driving lights in place of the US fogs. I only do modifications that are not permanent. Other than that....original.
Jack
Jack - welcome!!!! Smart guy too! Make you're personal changes so they aren't reversable (sp). Oooh, right motor & rakes (strictly from my perspectve). Definitle a good color! Could we see a photo or two?
Strictly from a "purists" viewpoint, could you also post them to www.914purists.com. Just in case, you know.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Jun 17 2006, 09:57 AM
Mark what do you call "Fully" restoring? Im gonna have the LE put back together and shooting for doing it for under $15
Posted by: McMark Jun 23 2006, 02:21 AM
Rich, I'm calling fully restored something you could enter in a concourse and get damn near full points for. I think there are a lot of little costs that add up. $15k would build you a damn nice driver, but carpet from Morphenspectra ain't german squareweave. (not bagging on James at all, his carpet is a great value). A crack or two in the dash top would be okay for a nice driver, but not for what I'm calling fully done.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 23 2006, 10:51 AM
Hi McMark,
I agree with you 100%. I really believe real world pricing this is on the light side. Everything is going up & parts, labor, etc are costing more.
Tom
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