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Posted by: swm914 Jun 25 2007, 10:39 AM

My '74 has 52M original miles. I assume the undercoating which is also in the wheel wells is a rust proofing is some kind.(??)

The undercarriage coating is very intact in it's coverage, that is very little paint shows through, I suppose due to the lower miles (?). In the wheel wells however, it has about 50-60% coverage with the paint showing through in splotches. You can flake it off with your fingers it some spots and in others areas it still bonds very good.

Since I'm going to show it for the first time next month, I need advice and opinions as to what to do with the wheel wells. One guy told me he'd take it off. I think I've seen pictures of really original cars and seeing the paint in the wheel wells. Then another guy told me not to do that because the paint will be unprotected, subject to chips and then rust.

Before I talked to the 2nd guy I totally cleaned out one well thinking it was the CW thing to do. I thought at a show it would look better than the splotches and that show cars show the paint. Do they? Now I'm not sure what to do with the other three ( or how to redo the one I did for that matter). The 2nd guy told me to spray rubber coating on all four. How's that fly on a 914 show car?

I want to keep the car as original as possible but still drive it and have fun and go to an occasional show, again for fun, but given the condition overall of the car, with a decent attempt to win something or have it be recognized in some way.

What would you guys do? Feedback appreciated.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jun 25 2007, 12:39 PM

, since I have a similar problem.





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Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Jun 25 2007, 03:12 PM

I've thought about removing the black, resiliant "rust preventative" from the pan and wheel wells as well, but trying to keep the underside of a light car (yellow in this instance) would be a very timing consuming, frustrating task. Furthermore, as much as many of us fret about stone chips, bug guts and bird exhaust on the top of the car, worrying about the bottom would be too much for me with my intention of actually using it.

Note the attached pic showing the black protective coating stripped off where a portion of the pan was replaced. I assume that you're talking about a similar situation as far as your wheel wells are concerned.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jun 25 2007, 03:14 PM

Interesting dilemma. I have been told from a very good source that one of the transport firms responsible for delivering a large number of cars in the west coast region, undercoated all the cars they handled with the bituminous undercoating. Apparently this was a "bill padder" as you got this and had to pay for it regardless. So if "as delivered" is a concours consideration, I don't know where this ends up. Maybe Pat has more insight????

Posted by: swm914 Jun 25 2007, 05:14 PM

I assume that you're talking about a similar situation as far as your wheel wells are concerned.
[/quote]

I seem to have 2 types of rust proofing. One is the stuff under the car and in the wells. It flakes off in a sort of dry, cake like layer that was very evenly applied. The other stuff, in both trunks and in the door jams etc. was a black, sticky,
tar like material. Original paperwork says the car had a Ziebart process.

The PO started removing it and was about half done with the tar stuff. I spent many hours removing the rest of it from both trunks. I assumed, perhaps in error, that the stuff should be removed to "show it" to see the original color. It looked bad anyway being half done so I really had no choice.

Your undercarriage shot looks like the tar stuff I had in the trunks.

I don't see many 914's in central PA. What are in most wheel wells, paint or something else, be it old rust proofing or some newer rubberized stuff?

Thanks

Steve

Posted by: 914nerd Jun 25 2007, 05:48 PM

From a practical point of view, why not a more modern material
Some of the truck bed linings look like they would probably hold up well to the sort of abuse that these areas get and, properly prepped, I would imagine that they would remain adhered for an incredible length of time
I wouldn't be original, but with a little work, you might be able to get it to look very similar and it would hold up better than the original coatings
But I will defer to CWs for all things concourse

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 25 2007, 08:44 PM

One thing first - Ziebart did NOT coat the F & R trunks. My '72 was Ziebarted by the dealer, without my consent, which caused him to have to eat the cost (you think car dealers are scum today? Wrong! Step back 35-40 years, because, they were scum then. Most today are just guys trying to make a living, not rape you & your sister). I will have to say that the Ziebart treatment has probably kept my 914 from being a rustbucket, because it sorta worked. Only rust I've ever had was from inside the sail panels, which is the one spot Ziebart didn't do. So, when the body guy redid those panels in 1979 (after removing that horrible water-catching dense foam inside) was spray the insides with a Ziebart-like compound. Never a problem since.
Attached are pics of my F & R trunks - 100% as delivered (except for carpet).

Now, as to the "stuff" they sprayed on the fenderwells. Another thing I've never had a problem with, though I am admittedly anal about my 914. It was really sticky for about 5 years. Then I noticed that it was hardening, and I feared stones making thier mark. So I began re-softening it, on an annual basis, by reintroducing a softening agent - in this case WD40. Every year I spray it on a rag & wipe the fenderwells down. Keeps them just soft enough, yet after a few days no longer extremely gooey. Do the same with the belly pan & it only takes a couple of hours. When I get an occasional chip on the pan (for some reason it only occurs on the pan), as when I see red paint, I touch it up with 3M Body Shutz. The Ziebart goo is NLA for some time.

I do envy the guys who have paint showing in the wells & on the pan, but only for as long as it takes me to recognize what a gravel road can do to all that. Yes, I HAVEdriven on gravel/dirt roads.

If I were you, I'd replace it, though with Body Shutz because it's more resilient. Think it's hard to remove that old stuff from a front wheelwell - try a rear! Keep it!
Pat



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Posted by: swm914 Jun 26 2007, 12:01 PM

If I were you, I'd replace it, though with Body Shutz because it's more resilient. Think it's hard to remove that old stuff from a front wheelwell - try a rear! Keep it!
Pat
[/quote]

Pat,
I assume by your reply, that cars "shown" (or ones you've judged) could have both covered and uncovered paint in the wells? The one I stripped was the passenger side rear. I guess I'll let the others go, especially the fronts as they look like a bear to do and redo the one I stripped with the stuff you recommend. Does it come in a spray can? I don't have a spray system and have seen other 3M products in spray cans that are described as rubberized coatings for wells. I wonder if they'd be ok?

What I don't like are the splotches where the coverage has flaked off. Not only does it look like crap but I assume that it'd be a deterrent in judging? Do they even look at that? I wonder if I could blow over the existing stuff with the 3M stuff and see how it sticks?

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Jun 26 2007, 01:22 PM

Don't think for a moment that keeping wheel wells clean and pristine will be easy and quick. The pic below shows a PCA National Parade concours wheel well prep. I can't imagine actually driving the car and being able to keep the underside this clean.......unless that's all your life revolves around




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Posted by: swm914 Jun 26 2007, 07:14 PM

[I can't imagine actually driving the car and being able to keep the underside this clean.......
[/quote]


I can't either and that isn't what I have in mind. I'm just trying to figure out what to do with half on half off coating in the wells having already cleaned one out thinking it was the right thing to do for a fun type show...not a high end thing.

Thanks for all the feedback
Steve

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jun 26 2007, 09:09 PM

[quote name='swm914' date='Jun 26 2007, 12:01 PM' post='916155']
If I were you, I'd replace it, though with Body Shutz because it's more resilient. Think it's hard to remove that old stuff from a front wheelwell - try a rear! Keep it!
Pat
[/quote]

Pat,
I assume by your reply, that cars "shown" (or ones you've judged) could have both covered and uncovered paint in the wells? The one I stripped was the passenger side rear. I guess I'll let the others go, especially the fronts as they look like a bear to do and redo the one I stripped with the stuff you recommend. Does it come in a spray can? I don't have a spray system and have seen other 3M products in spray cans that are described as rubberized coatings for wells. I wonder if they'd be ok?

What I don't like are the splotches where the coverage has flaked off. Not only does it look like crap but I assume that it'd be a deterrent in judging? Do they even look at that? I wonder if I could blow over the existing stuff with the 3M stuff and see how it sticks?
[/quote]
Yeah, you prbably could, though it make take 2 coats, depending on how it is applied.

3M makes Body Shutz (ask around about its usefulness - it's really good stuff). Problem is, it comes in cans (non-aerosol) & requires a low pressure air source, as well as a special gun to apply it. Actually, the pressure required is about 35 psi, so a cheap compressor should handle it. The spray gun costs about $60 & needs no cleanup because of its design - it actually sucks the Shutz PAST the nozzle. Leaves a nice, smoth finish that is paintable if you like.

3M also makes a rubberized undercoating in an aerosol can ( I strong suspect it is the same product as Shutz). No tools, compressor required, but the pressure from the can is higher. So, it doesn't lay down as smoothly, though just as effective and, I'm told, is also paintable. Either product should be available at your local FLAPS. May want to try the aerosol form - I've pretty good results with it. Mask before you use it, because it is a wider spray - don't want to have to clean it off suspension pieces.

Pat

BTW - about 70% of the cars I've judged, as well as those I've competed against have an undercoating on them - many have it on suspension pieces also ( a no-no). Most of those who didn't have it had horrible chips in the paint underneath. Some were flat-out gorgeous, but undrivable. We'll find out at next year's Parade in Charlotte whether or not that has changed. Prior to this, the "gig" was so minimal for undercoating that it wasn't worth the effort to remove it or try to maintain the paint afterward. Most 914's coming into the US had some sort of coating applied - more on the East coast & midwest cars than Callyforneeya.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jun 26 2007, 09:43 PM

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Jun 26 2007, 11:09 PM)

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 27 2007, 12:54 PM

pat, what do you think of POR-15 on the wheelwells??? Im thinking of cleaning up the underbody and wheelwells with a pressurewasher maybe??? and then using POR-15 in a CLEAR color, as opposed to black....Because my wheelwells are are not rustproofed, so the clear will allow the color to show thru...what do you think??? --JON

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Jun 27 2007, 05:53 PM

Jon,
I wouldn't direct a pressure anything into the wheelwells or the bottom of a 914.

It might be helpful if you could post a pic of exactly what you're dealing with.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jun 27 2007, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(1970 Neun vierzehn @ Jun 27 2007, 07:53 PM)

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 27 2007, 06:23 PM

lol