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Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 26 2007, 09:31 PM

I've been searching for 4 years now for an early rain tray. I have my original, but it is trash because it split at one of the mountings. And, there is NO glue that will put it back together. Porsche used some sort of imperious plastic for these things!

I just counted them up (the responses indicating that the HAVE ONE & IT'S PERFECT) 87! Guess how many of the 87 had the proper part - 3! Guess how many had a useable part? ZERO!

Isn't there someone out there with a flat bottomed rain tray that they want to make some money on?

Yeah, I know, this doesn't belong on this forum. I'm desperate & about to give up!

Please ..... help me! You can flame away after I find one.....

Never mind - doesn't belong on this forum. Sorry. Desperate!
Pat

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 26 2007, 09:59 PM

crap....now I see, its NLA....ahh...

search ebay DAILY....things pop up....

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 27 2007, 11:24 AM

Been doing that for a couple of years & no luck - not even a bad one!

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Jul 27 2007, 12:36 PM

I have one, but it is in the same condition as yours. Have you called Rich a HPH? or try Brad Mayuer at 309-694-1797. Also look up 20th street auto in Phoenix AZ they have a lot of 914 parts.

Posted by: Jasfsmith Jul 27 2007, 12:49 PM

It wouldn't be a problem if you'd just buy that 914-6 you've been looking for... <grin>

BTW, I have a perfect "early" rain tray. Sorry to get your hopes up though, it's going onto MY 914-4 when the time comes.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jul 27 2007, 05:17 PM

Now that's just mean!

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 27 2007, 07:16 PM

OK, let's look at this rationally. You're a "six" guy. Yeah, you have this nice 4 banger, but you'll always give priority to the six (like me - my '73 T gets no attention).

So....by the time you get around to the 4, if you ever do, that tray will have rotted away into dust. Why not release it to someone who will do something positive with it? I promise - I'll give credit. Please, please, please! If that isn't begging.....
Pat

Posted by: orthobiz Jul 27 2007, 08:43 PM

Paul

Posted by: Jasfsmith Jul 28 2007, 10:12 PM

Are we talking about a photo of the piece, or Pat on his knees begging for one? <grin>

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jul 28 2007, 10:32 PM

Damn! No mercy ! How about both photos?

Posted by: Jasfsmith Jul 29 2007, 05:18 AM

Pat's a big boy. He can take it (and give it).

Besides, I need to get all my licks in before our first competitive meeting, where he's sure to bury me... <grin>

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 29 2007, 10:10 AM

Well, for now, here's a pic of the correct tray. Doesn't show the cracked mounting hole on the drivers side.

This is close as I'll get to the other photo -



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Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 29 2007, 10:19 AM

I CAN take it - if you're going to dish it out......

I think the burying will be on the other side. Remember, I've had a repaint (even though it was almost 30 years ago), and my underside is a disaster area. Seems like every boot underneath has gone south in the last couple of years. Every week I find another that'll have to replaced & some of them are horrible to work with. Bring your shovel - I can take it!

BTW, there are a number of others who, should they decide to attend, can easilly bury both of us. I'm a little nervous about about the "quiet ones"!

Pat

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jul 29 2007, 01:47 PM

& think it's time for stealth mode. Not good for the forum, but good for warfare

Posted by: Jasfsmith Jul 30 2007, 08:35 AM

A true CW. Always have the excuse on hand for ones failings. <grin> Reminds me of my golfing days. When someone asked what my handicap was, I would respond "my wife".

Without question, they are many others that can (and will) put us in our place. It's just your more fun to pick on.... <grin>

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 30 2007, 07:35 PM

Wel now, just hold on a minute! I'm a sensitive guy - I have feelings! You can't just pick on me "willy nilly". I don't pick on you, do I (.....YET!)

My 914 is so full of flaws that I'll be embarrassed to show it. It's been almost 15 years since the last showing (burned out). It's full of cobwebs underneath, has an oil leak I can't find & it has those bolts in the bottom of the front trunk from an ancient sway bar! Hasn't run in 2 years, needs new tires, brakes need redoing.

See 'm sayin? The car's a mess. I'm not joking here!

Anyone with a detailed Yugo can beat me!

But, I'll be there.
Pat

Posted by: orthobiz Jul 30 2007, 08:40 PM

We need a NEW emoticon: This Thread is Worthless WITH Pictures!!!!!

Paul

Posted by: Jasfsmith Jul 31 2007, 03:24 PM

Damn. You DO have the CW excuses down cold. PLEASE STOP!

(Note: this is the first time I've used an "icon". My standard "<grin>" just wasn't enough. <grin>)

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 31 2007, 08:06 PM

Excuses? I "don need no stinkin" excuses! It's the truth - my car is a train wreck!

Oh, by the way - think I've finally found the Holy Grail! Could be more perfect, but the mount holes ARE perfect. I can fix the rest, though I don't have it in my hands yet.

What are you talking about "CW excuses"? Just tring to be honest here.

Besides, if we wre talking about racing here, do you think I'd give up what I consider to be an advantage? Course not, and you know it. And so does the Doctor!
Pat

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jul 31 2007, 08:39 PM

I was born & raised in Dixie & I know whitewash when I see it !

Posted by: Pat Garvey Jul 31 2007, 08:51 PM

Oh Al,

I'm so sorry you feel that way!

Or, on the other hand - maybe I should run for public office?

No, I still have me integrity & my filthy 914. All I need.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Aug 3 2007, 05:34 PM

It's done!

Found a really nice one - no cracks or splits. Hardly even needs a cleanup.

Four year search is over! Never would have found it if it weren't for 914World.

The guy is restoring a six and I promised I'd put the word out that he needs a working period-correct radio & some tool pieces.

If anyone has any info regarding these, let me know & I'll give you his e-mail address. He's one the "world" as "freezing914".

Phewww!

Pat

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 3 2007, 06:25 PM

Noooooooooooooooooo! Darth Garveys' Achilles heel has been repaired! Noooooooooooooooooo!

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Aug 3 2007, 07:55 PM

nice job man....finally! -JON

Posted by: Pat Garvey Aug 4 2007, 06:32 PM

I have more "heels" than a foot fetish convention, but this one was the worst. The majors left are proper, period-correct and sized tires, and getting Eric to redo my calipers.

The tires will have to come from Coker, I'll need 5, and they'll be way overpriced.

The brakes are 35 years old, and although they've never given a hint of failure, the rears are nearly impossible to pad-adjust. They also need to have a proper finish put back on them. These will also be not cheap, but worth every penny.

Also thinking about replacing the rotors, though they have less than 10k on them. Don't like the stupid paintwork I put on them when they were new (don't evean ask how many years ago!).

Oh, yeah - I have "heels". Some of you will have to find them in Charlotte next year. If you do, it's forbidden to snitch to the judges. Remember, I have a lot of "contacts" in South Philly. I could get Vinny or Joey to bodyguard my car.
Pat

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 4 2007, 06:49 PM

Michelin 165/80 HR15... $191.00 each + shipping @ Coker . Kind of makes me happy to take a hit for my tire size.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Aug 4 2007, 07:55 PM

Yeah, I'm having serious doubts about the sense of this myself.

I'm not really happy about spending $1100 bucks for 35 year old tire technology (remeber, they have to have tubes too. Probably another $2-300 bucks for mounting & balancing (remember, they have tubes in them - should be RAL fun trying to find someone competent, with equipment that won't touch my wheels!).

I could very easily decided to take the tire hit myself. And, I've always hated any Michelin tires I had & prayed for them to wear out.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 5 2007, 09:19 AM

? My old Dunlops were tubeless. Knikki has never run tires w/ tubes. How do you put a tubed tire on a Mahle or a Fuchs? They are tubeless rims. I realize these Michelins are tubed tires, but I'm wondering if you just found a loophole? What did you say before Pat... no Kuhmos allowed? What if they're the only ones available?

Sorry Pat, not trying to pull a hijack here but this might be one of those "team" issues we've been thinking about.

Posted by: Jasfsmith Aug 6 2007, 10:16 AM

And plan on having them re-balanced is a 1,000 miles or so. I now remember when I ran XAS tube type on my 914-4. Getting them balanced was (and remains) a pain.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Sep 17 2007, 08:30 PM

Success can be a fleeting thing - dammit!

The tray turned out to be unacceptable - again!

Decent shape on the front edges, but really badly warped on the rear. Eeben the front edges had been "repaired".

So...back in the hunt!
Pat

Posted by: orthobiz Sep 17 2007, 08:51 PM

You should make the rain tray search into a movie.

Paul

Posted by: Pat Garvey Sep 18 2007, 07:37 PM

Ah, yes. It would be one of those b&w French movies. Full of hearthrobs & dejection. Friends who try to help the depressed star (that would be me), yet, in the end, depress him even further. Until THAT day that the elusive tray becomes available, which is the morning that the star croaks!

Yeah, yeah, fun & games. But.....I'm beginning to think that this part is the most unobtainium part out there for a 914. No, take that back - it IS the most unobtanium part out there for a STREET 914!

I've finally realized that my original, which I thought to be cracked beyond repair, is worth a shot at rejuvination. I'll post a pic of the one & only crack (severe) if anyone thinks there might be a way to repair it.

Yo, any plastic melt gurus out there?

Pat

Posted by: Pat Garvey Sep 19 2007, 08:12 PM

Here are the pics. Anyone up to a melt party? Figure I need a pencil point butene type fire breather. No loss if it's ruined......because it's already ruined.





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Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 20 2007, 10:22 AM

i've resisted entering the fray over this part. a ?. how do you remove the tray from the lid and retain what i presume are the correct rivets? interesting that there is an embossed grain finish to the tray. similar to the graining found on other plastic/vinyl items. unfortunately, this one has the same train wreck on one of the mounting screw points and a few glitches in the field. i was hoping to fund a trip to maui.

k


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Posted by: Pat Garvey Sep 20 2007, 07:52 PM

Youll just have to punch out the rivets - they're nothing special & available anywhere, though make sure you use aluminum.

Tried a butane torch on a POS other tray I have, with worse problems. Too much heat! Melts the exterior dramatically, before it even starts heating the interior of the crack.

So......any other lower heat ideas, because I think this can be done with the right heat source.
Pat

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Sep 20 2007, 09:56 PM

Pat,
I'm coming in from way out in left field here, but...........a soldering iron?

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Sep 21 2007, 03:31 PM

Try using a real heat gun instead Pat. Looks like an industrial hair dryer & you'll be happy you did. If you can't rent one fork out & buy a good one. You'll get the results you want & not bubble up anything.
Another solution might be 3M panel adhesive- you can build a house w/ the stuff. $45.00 per tube. It's dark grey to boot.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Sep 21 2007, 08:31 PM

Al,

Where does one get the 3M panel adhesive? And what is its intended purpose.

Pat

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Sep 21 2007, 10:27 PM

Pat,
GOOGLE is your friend.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Sep 22 2007, 07:21 AM

3M panel adhesive is the epoxy-like glue most manufacturers use today to secure fenders, for example, onto the chasis of a car. There are other uses on the vehicle but the fenders are the 1st that come to mind.

So you wreck your car. You have to remove the L front fender. You manage to unbolt it & it still won't come off. It's been glued & that's why. Usually a heat gun is used to soften up the stuff enough to shove a putty knife into the seam & get the fender off. Any good body shop will carry the stuff & so will their suppliers, for less. Supposed to use it in a special $300.00 gun, but it can be manipulated out by hand as well.

It is the most amazing stuff I've ever used. You can build almost anything w/ this stuff. I suspect, however, that it's not UV protected. Had some on the outside of my truck for 2 years & it dried up & turned grey. Why would it be- no sunlight in a seam? So, get some panel adhesive, glue your damage & then cover the glue w/ a clear-coat that's UV protected. Good luck Pat & practice, practice, practice!

Oh yeah, Google is your friend

Posted by: Garland Dec 2 2007, 10:07 AM

Found this in the 914 Garage late last night.
Two splits, one at mounting hole. And one at latch point.





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Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 2 2007, 05:12 PM

Isn't it sad! A perfect part, except for the splits - have one just like it. Don't understand what happens to this piece - why does it split?

Posted by: Beamer13 Dec 2 2007, 05:40 PM

My brother in law used to use the 3M type stuff, it is called duramix. Yes the gun is kinda expensive, and a bag of tips for the gun is like $10. I know this, cuz I had him do something for me and my payment was buying him a new bag of tips. If you know anyone that does body work, I would totally ask them. This stuff is actually stronger than a weld. They tested it with their frame rack vs. welding. The metal that was put together with the epoxy stuff ripped apart on the side of where it was stuck together, the weld eventually gave way..

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 2 2007, 07:09 PM

Yeah, but does it show?
Pat

Posted by: Garland Dec 2 2007, 08:50 PM

OK, I'm going to the barn.

Posted by: Garland Dec 2 2007, 09:43 PM

It's becuse people remove them.
Never removed Part History:
1970 914
1978 I'm second owner.
1981 11 years of michigan salt bath, ear breaks, park car.
1981 - 2002 21 yr's stored indoors, metal still rusts! Everything else ok.
2002 - date parts car. Building up a 72 cal. tub.

PERFECT!
As long as I don't take it off.
(I did remove the rubber bumper and metal plate)


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Posted by: Garland Dec 2 2007, 09:47 PM

My 1970 of 29 years. Factory paint.


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Posted by: sendjonathanmail Dec 3 2007, 06:36 PM

take it off! take it off!

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 3 2007, 08:41 PM

So.......
Is it available?

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 3 2007, 11:20 PM

Wow

Posted by: Garland Dec 4 2007, 12:22 AM

Pat,
Were would this be going? I would only consider a trade. I would have to think about that.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 4 2007, 07:06 PM

Trade for what? I'm open!

Pat

Posted by: davep Dec 4 2007, 09:41 PM

Plastic never ages well. Think of it a a bowl of spaghetti. Plastic molecules are chains of varying lengths. When moulded, they get stretched. As they age, they tend to contract. They accept almost every opportunity to separate.
Some plastics like nylon are condensation types that produce entrained water when they polymerize. The nylon is strong when 'wet' and fractures when 'dry'. Stick your nylon ice scraper in hot water for an hour before scraping ice and see how much more resistant to cracking it is.

Unfortunately a plastic 914 part is like a 356 crankshaft, it is not a matter of IF it will break, only a matter of WHEN.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 5 2007, 07:25 PM

So, Dave,

Are you saying that my almost 3 year search for a "proper" rain tray is a lost cause? I should give it up?

Never! "Remember when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor - did we give up then?" Animal House!

I almost got one last month, but the owner decided to keep it for some restoration in the future.

If Garland needs/wants something I have or can get, I'll grab his tray (if he parts with it), take it to Charlotte next year & do my best. I won't consider my 914 whole until I have a perfect one - or near perfect. My original cannot even be mounted. I do have a perfect later style, but it's later style. Important to me!
Pat

Posted by: davep Dec 6 2007, 08:35 AM

Never a lost cause. However, when you get one, you will have to do a super treatment on it to be able to preserve it for any length of time. Really, I think the best thing is to reproduce them somehow. Plastic and rubber parts just do not last. They don't rust like steel, but they have their own forms of decay.

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Dec 6 2007, 02:39 PM

At this point, I'd have to say it worth at least the cost of having your white car de-rusted and painted.....

Or you can be evil like me and do a live webcast of you cutting it up

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 6 2007, 09:42 PM

Uncle George at AA mentioned he had a source for remaking them, but I don't see how there could be enough demand to warrant the cost.

Pity. From what I hear, the later style trays are being redone by Perf Prod, but I also hear that the quality is bad.

Posted by: GWN7 Dec 6 2007, 11:49 PM

This is the first time I've read this thread....... plastics such as the rain tray are done by injection molding. The plastic is heated and forced into a mold under preassure. Water then runs thru the mold and cools the plastic and the two parts of the mold come apart leaving you with the finished product.

To develop a mold to make new ones would cost about $20K (I had a buddy that worked at a local injection molding place)....that is if you were going to make them in any volume....such as producing 100,000 or so for a producton run of cars (why Porsche changed them after one or two years worth of production run I don't know). That would make the mold development per piece about $5 per. Pretty cheap in the cost of a $4,000 car.

I could make them, but the mold development cost would be around $3000 (that's estimated...might be higher) and if I had a perfect one to use as a pattern. What the final cost per piece would be depends on how much of a demand there is for them.

It's always the first one that costs the most.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 7 2007, 07:48 PM

Thats my point. If every 914, thru sometime late on '72 (I think that's when they changed) wanted one, it would be OK - that's about 40K 914's. Assuming the tray was made properly (& that a donor was available), the cost would be moderate. But, since there are probably less than 5K of these cars left in usable condition (excluding sixes, which didn't have it), the cost would be prohibitative.

What would I pay for one? Probably about $300. But that's me. I doubt that anyone else would have the slightest interest. I'm a little anal about this part - most are not.

What bothers me is that I know of two out there that are right. And I can't get my hands on either.
Pat

Posted by: Ferg Dec 7 2007, 08:05 PM

If there are two guys out there that have the part and won't sell it to you for $300 then they need to have their head examined even more than you!

I'll check my local resource again next week, and if I find one, I'll cut you a deal at $200

Ferg

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 7 2007, 08:20 PM

You think I'm kidding? Show me the part.

But it had better be perfect. other than a little dust.

Money waiting! Don't let me down - every one else has for 3 years!
Pat

Posted by: GWN7 Dec 7 2007, 10:48 PM

When my ex bro-in-law had his body shop he talked about buying a plastic welder kit......it was suppost to able to fix any type of plastic on a car.....I'll ask him about it and if he bought it.

I haven't checked the one on the 72 I just bought.......let you know in the spring what shape it's in

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 14 2007, 10:14 PM

only ten bucks , 19 hours to go
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270195061383&rd=1

Posted by: Pat Garvey Dec 15 2007, 05:45 PM

e-mail the seller - had cracks in it! I have several of these already!

Thanks for being on the lookout for me though.
Pat

Posted by: sww914 Dec 15 2007, 11:57 PM

A body shop that I used to work at had a plastic welder, before the repair epoxies were as good as they are now. It was basically an electric soldering iron with a shoe shaped like a regular household iron, but it was only 1" long and 1/2" wide. It had a hole in the middle with a small tube brazed to the shoe for adding material to the middle of the heated area. It came with little sticks of plastic- PP, PE, Urethane, etc., like you get with a hot glue gun, but only 4-5mm dia. We would spray it with Pam so that the plastic wouldn't stick to the shoe.
We fixed a lot of plastic bumpers with that thing.
I had an Ultratorch, a butane soldering iron, with a similar shoe, but no hole and little tube. I used it several times to fix broken plastic things over the years, but it finally died and I trashed it.
I think that with any soldering iron with a shoe like that and a lot of practice you'll be able to fix a rain tray. I understand that you have several to practice on. I even fixed a 4" gash in a kayak with it once, it came out pretty good after I gently warmed it with a propane torch to blend the edges of the repair.