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Posted by: Randal Feb 15 2011, 02:21 PM

The most challenging corners I've experienced are turn 1 at Thunderhill (counterclockwise) and turn 10 at Sears. I'd also say turn 9 at Thunderhill when running clockwise.

By challenging I mean corners that are tough to get right and take at maximum speed.

Posted by: DanT Feb 15 2011, 03:39 PM

If we are talking about TT/DE lines here goes.

Turn one TH CCW.
after the pit wall get as far right as possible for set up for entry. stay right during braking (don't cheat left). Smooth turn in (fairly high speed turn entry) and very late apex at the end of the inside berm. Then exit all the way right using the entire exit berm.

Turn 9 at TH CW.
Going uphill can not see the apex. Either get off the gas as you get near the top of the hill or completely crest the hill and do some pretty aggressive braking (yes there is enough room to wait to brake here). Get the car all the way to the right at the apex(end of berm). Exit all the way to the left.

Posted by: Randal Feb 15 2011, 04:38 PM

T1 TH CCW - Yup that is the line, still challenging to do and not have to stop to change your shorts, if on the limit.

T9 TH CW Again, that is the line, but difficult to not leave time there. Likewise for the other direction where I've always felt I had to drive to the corner after braking. That is the perfect corner to practice for hill climbs, as the uphill part (CCW) commands you brake much later than normal. Just have to find the spots without going off.

Speaking about braking T2 at Laguna is kind of like that, but I think with a little practice the braking points there can be found.

Posted by: neilca Feb 15 2011, 06:58 PM

Turn 12, Road Atlanta

Posted by: campbellcj Feb 15 2011, 11:36 PM

Turn 9 at Willow Springs should be on the list. Very late entry decreasing radius, at the end of a top speed (in many cars) long sweeper, and often nasty rain run-off ditches on one or both sides where you might go off. If you get it wrong, you'll get smoked on the front straight, assuming you aren't off-roading in the desert.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2011, 05:44 PM

Do you stay all the way left going over the top?


I've only run it that direction once and had nobody with me to show me the lines ...

Posted by: bam914 Feb 16 2011, 07:17 PM

12 is easy. You just keep your foot to the floor and don't look at the wall, or any of the walls around there.

Posted by: d914 Feb 16 2011, 08:33 PM

turn 1 at roebling road....Ive seen it taken wide, short and everything in between..

agree on turn 12 Road atlanta ,, late apex, foot down, upshift to 5th at start finish!!!

Posted by: wobbletop Feb 16 2011, 09:26 PM

Turn 2 at Mosport.

Blind corner, double apex, over a crest into a downhill with off camber.

Edit: For example, at about the 2:10 mark in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqfiwZayAHE

Posted by: DanT Feb 16 2011, 10:09 PM

to be honest Andy, it has been quite a while since I have run it that direction....but IIRC nip the left side going up the hill, straight over the crest, then nip the late apex on the right.

Posted by: sww914 Feb 17 2011, 02:30 AM

Turn 4 at Willow Springs kicked my ass until a friend pointed out that it wasn't a very important corner at all in a TT. In between 2 slowish corners. After I stopped worrying about it (that corner) I actually went a little slower there but gained speed coming into 3 and leaving 5 so I got 1/2 a second off of my lap times by throwing away turn 4.
It's still a good place to pass or get passed in a race, but for TT it's not a big deal.

Posted by: Randal Feb 17 2011, 09:33 AM

That was my question as well after reading Dan's first tutorial. Thanks for the clarification Dan.

Actually there is a lot going on at that corner.

Posted by: grantsfo Feb 23 2011, 01:26 PM

I dont think T10 at Sears is especially difficult its just scary if you screw up.

Posted by: carr914 Feb 23 2011, 03:29 PM

Posted by: carr914 Feb 23 2011, 03:31 PM

Going into the Boot (Laces) @ Watkins Glen - It's downhill and I've always felt I was going to go into the tire wall

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 24 2011, 10:57 AM

The problem with corners is the black stuff don't go straight no more.....not that you can't.

Posted by: grantsfo Feb 24 2011, 01:12 PM

For me T3 at Laguna is always tricky to execute well. Go in to slow and it always seems to induce understeer, go in too fast and oversteer is possible result with not much run off room. Its easy turn to do at moderate speeds but at the limit it always freaks me out. My one off is at that turn. I just drove spec miata style and kept my foot in it and drove along in the dirt until I got back on the track. ITend to go with safe very late apex scrub off speed and do a little toss of the car to get rotation and full power if I get the rotation. If no rotation then its painful rolling onto throttle which never seems to get speed I want down that short straight. The rest of the turns are pretty darn easy there.

I find Infineon to be much more challenging. T2 to T4 is difficult combo to execute well all the time at high speeds. Lots of strange loading and unloading to contend with there. From Exit of T7 to T9 is challenging too. Again there is a difference between moderate speeds and "balls to the wall" in these sections. It takes cool head to hit those sections fast and to keep the car collected and stable so you dont slow down or spin or end up in area of the track where you wont be setup for next turn.

Posted by: john rogers Feb 24 2011, 02:20 PM

Most all tracks have a corner or two that are hard, I.E, turn 9 at Willow Springs is hard because the outside edge of the exit is not in sight due to the crown in the pavement.

NASCAR turn 1 at the CA Speedway is where your brain says lift a little just as you have gotten to full speed of 140 or so but then you remember that the NASCAR guys are doing over 200 when they get there!

NASCAR turns 3 and 4 at PIR for the same reason as above and then the turn 1 - 2 - 3 complex because the pit out wall makes it blind and there are about 75% of the drivers who tap the brakes as they start to turn off the main track but a few who do not and brake after the first turn in....

Posted by: neilca Feb 27 2011, 09:59 AM

My issue with turn 12 at Road Atlanta begins with the exit of 10B. I am in second gear on exit as I approach the bridge I grab third. If you have never driven Road Atlanta, the bridge is a blind. I line up with the middle marker on the bridge and hope I am in the right spot for entering 12. Now before I reach twelve I have to grab fourth gear or I run out of revs in the middle of the corner, things just get busy. Not a complaint, but I am shifting with my left hand. This takes getting used to. A little more track time and perhaps my toughest corner will change.

Posted by: andys Feb 27 2011, 11:14 AM

John,

PIR = Phoenix or Portland? If it's Phoenix you speak of, then I'm on board with that T1-2-3 complex. That decreasing radius always had me thinking I could have gone faster, and never felt I got the most out of that part of the track. I thought it was a very tricky complex, but not scary fast like say T8 or T9 @ WSIR.

Andys

Posted by: john rogers Feb 27 2011, 08:33 PM

Yes, it is Phoenix. I just saw this weekend that the track surface will be redone so hopefully there will be some changes/upgrades to the infield road race portion also. There are only 3 or 4 drivers that go into that section flat out: Wayne Baker, Frank Beck, Jim Patrick and the guy who wrenched/drove for Edie Arrowsmith in her light blue 914. The rest of use stayed to the right and out of their way!

Posted by: MikeSpraggi Feb 28 2011, 10:03 PM

VIR turn 8-9, climbing esses at speed.

Posted by: Richard Casto Mar 1 2011, 04:09 PM

First this is from someone who has only driven VIR DE in a low HP Civic so my speed through the esses may be much slower than you...

With that being said, I love the the esses. Maybe with a faster car I could carry more speed and expose the dangerous side of the esses. It seems it is turn 10 is the one that catches people out and you don't need a fast car to screw it up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqfv2tYhkDk


The video shows the climb up through 8, 9 and into 10. Turn 10 is a blind crest left hand turn. If you apex turn 10 too early, you track out onto the grass on the right. Typically what then happens is that you spin around back across the track and into the tire wall on the left. The right thing to do is to know in advance that turn 10 bites so when you realize you have screwed up your entry to just drive straight off to the right as there is plenty of run off.

Posted by: DanT Mar 1 2011, 04:15 PM

you got to love Corvette drivers Looks like he got in too early and too hot and lost the back end

Posted by: stownsen914 Mar 1 2011, 07:53 PM

I think Big Bend at Lime Rock deserves a vote or two for degree of difficulty. I happen to love that turn ...

Back in the day when you saw mostly 911s, 914s, and 356s at the track, 914s ruled the roost in Big Bend.

Scott

Posted by: Downunderman Mar 2 2011, 12:45 AM

Turn one - Eastern Creek, needs big balls.

Posted by: Randal Mar 2 2011, 10:59 AM

Now that was an ugly mistake. That tire wall....

No question, that corner is difficult and looks to be easy to screw up.

Posted by: MikeSpraggi Mar 5 2011, 11:52 PM

Here's a couple. With too much speed and not enough down force ... well ... you see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ailTwxulnR8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQLM-K9TwWM

Posted by: john rogers Mar 7 2011, 12:37 PM

Any corner with a rise or fall in it is a big challenge! I forgot one earlier, guess old age is really setting in, but here is the turn 2, 3 and 4 hill from the street circuit in Tecate MX that I raced several times. There is a slight dip between 3 and 4 as you can see and the first turn is off camber as is the top and there were 2 to 3 cars a day crashing on it and a couple rolled off the right side and down into a tree filled gully!


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Posted by: stownsen914 Mar 8 2011, 12:21 PM

Reading this reminded me of Bridgehampton turn 1/2 (maybe 3 also?) It was a blind, descending series of turns after the long front straight that could be taken at max speed or close to it in many cars. Once you committed to the first turn, there was no lifting until you completed the series of turns! Always in your mind as you navigated this was the sand that was pretty much everywhere (sometimes including the track surface), so if you left the track there was a good possibly of overturning the car as your tires dug into the sand and the rest of the car kept going!

Bridgehampton the track is gone now and replaced by a golf course, and sadly so.

Scott

Posted by: John Jentz Mar 8 2011, 12:31 PM

Tell me about it! Back in 1975 I put my FV on top of the hill outside 2 after a rear tire went down under the Lowenbrau Bridge. Spun across 1 into 2 hit the bottom of the cliff and flipped to the top. Landed right side up. What a ride!

Posted by: Randal Mar 8 2011, 02:10 PM

Those concrete walls!

Challenging to say the least.

Posted by: carr914 Mar 8 2011, 03:04 PM

Back before they "civilized" Sebring Turn 12 was wicked - you lifted, turn the wheel left, brushed the brakes to put it into a drift and away you went. If you missed there was Armco everywhere.

Another one was the series of Turns after the back straight @ Moroso - many people killed, at least one drowned

Posted by: smg914 Mar 8 2011, 04:58 PM

Slightly off subject......but.....

Quote from Andy Lally in 2007;
"Turn 17 at Sebring is the wildest corner in North America"

The Sebring course has changed so much over the years, so maybe this isn't as true today as it were a few years ago but; Many accomplished racers have said something to the effect of; "There are 17 ways to take turn 17 at Sebring and their still not sure they got it right".

Posted by: john rogers Mar 10 2011, 02:16 PM

Here are are a couple more picts from "south of the border". Notice the plentiful armco and the nice red curbs which are about 10 to 12 inches high. In the race I won down there I had red paint on the sides of both right side tires! Some others were not so lucky, generally one or two cars would flip and/or roll over and one even ended up hanging in some trees! In the one pict you can see the car just over my inst. cluster doing a really nice barrel roll as we were still going like hell for some positions.


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