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Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 13 2013, 05:56 PM

74, stock 2.0, stock front swaybar - no rear bar, stock front inserts, may mount an older set of adjustable Koni's I already have on the back, either way 100 lb springs, 195/65 Eagle GT's.

Looking to have fun, not too worried about much else, but I have a few basic setup questions:

I'm going to chalk the tires, but what pressure should I start at?

Full tank, half tank or empty tank?

Spare tire in or out?

The konis need to be adjusted out of the car - soft, medium or firm (keep in mind I will have to live with it on NH streets too)?

Should I overfill the oil a bit? If so how much?

What am I missing?

Thanks,

Scott

Posted by: Racer Chris Apr 13 2013, 07:04 PM

38psi.

1/4-1/2 tank.

Out. Clean out your glovebox too.

Leave the stock shocks in the car.

Half a quart.

Posted by: okieflyr Apr 13 2013, 07:23 PM

If it is your very first auto-x ever, don't try and set records on your first and second run. Drive the course at 8/10 the first time or two to get the feel of the car and not miss any gates. Be looking 2-3 gates ahead so you can keep your foot on the gas longer without surprises.

Posted by: Randal Apr 13 2013, 09:57 PM

Find an instructor to ride with you.

If not trailer out here and we'll find you a good one!

Posted by: mskala Apr 14 2013, 06:42 PM

Hi Scott,
If you're talking about NCR, barring car problems I will be there.
Look for this thing:

I think Chris has the bases covered. They usually have a large
number of runs for the day and always have instructors for each
group. Before you leave home check that the battery is secured
well and check the CV joint bolts.

Mark S.

Posted by: ww914 Apr 14 2013, 06:57 PM

Without a doubt, go the first few times with an instructor. Even if you walk the course, it will look different when you get the green flag. This is coming from a guy with only 5 AXs to date. Getting off on the right foot is important.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 15 2013, 08:39 AM

Hi Mark,
I haven't registered, but I am considering the Sports Car Club of NH event at NHMS.
Where is Devens Field?

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 15 2013, 08:41 AM

I will take everyones advice and take a couple of runs with an instructor!

SCCNH has a rookie class this year, could be fun....

Posted by: mskala Apr 15 2013, 09:56 AM

Devens is in Ayer, MA. It is a very good site for us.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 24 2013, 07:40 AM

So I had a great time at the AX with my son.
After the morning session (3 runs) I was in 2nd place in the novice class.
I never did go with an instructor.

In the afternoon I needed to step it up a couple of tenths like everyone else, but choked instead and finished off the podium.
I started at 38 psi and lowered it to 36 psi in the afternoon, but it turns out everyone else was lowering their tire pressure a lot more do to the cold conditions.
I’m sure it was partially me trying too hard, but the track definitely felt greasy in the afternoon.

On straight time I was about mid-field of 60 cars, so not to bad considering I’m new and was virtually the only car there on all season radials!
I’m not obsessed with it at this point, but would like to compete for the rookie championship.

For the novice class you are limited to tires with a UTQG of 140.
I have a set of 5.5 steel rims and am looking at a set of Toyo Proxes R1R in a 195/50/15.

I don’t see any other tires for these rims that meet the UTQG requirement.
Is this worth doing? I’m going to burn the Goodyear GT’s off anyway, so maybe a dedicated set of tires doesn’t really cost any more as they will let me get another two years out of the Goodyears?



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Posted by: Matt Romanowski Apr 24 2013, 08:23 AM

Sounds like you had a a great time. You should really come down to Devens and do an NCR PCA event. We have a few folks, like Mark, who are really fast and great to learn from. Check out the details at www.ncr-pca.org. It's a very 914 friendly region (I'm Presidente!).

Posted by: mskala Apr 24 2013, 09:58 AM

Also it turns out that NCR is having one event at NHMS, it is on 5/11.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 24 2013, 10:03 AM

What is it going to cost? Do I have to be a member?

Posted by: mskala Apr 24 2013, 10:46 AM

Go to ncr-pca.org. I think they send registration stuff to motorsportreg.com. You
have to register early. Porsche drivers don't need to be members.

Posted by: rjames Apr 24 2013, 01:04 PM

Nice job, Scott! You're an inspiration. I've been wanting to try a AX, but every time I watch an in-car video I feel like I can't tell where the gates are and fear I'd be running over cones more ofrten than not. Maybe one day...

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 24 2013, 02:02 PM

Go for it Robert!
Walking the course and watching other cars helps a lot - it isn't that hard to stay on course (I missed one cone all day and it was on my last run when I knew better).
They will also give you an instructor if you are having trouble so don't fear!

Posted by: Woody Apr 24 2013, 03:42 PM

Dunlop direzzas and hankook RS3s are the street tire of choice down here. Not many people run the R1Rs. We also have a couple guys running the Yokohama AD08s but if I was you I would look towards the dunlops or the hankooks and try to squeeze a 205/50/15 on the car.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 24 2013, 07:14 PM

I would consider going 205 if:
it will work on a 5.5 rim
it won't rub on the fenders without rolling (I do not want to roll the fenders at all)
it is a real imrpovement over a 195 that fits the rim better

the direzzas were very popular with the SCCNH crowd, go figure

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 24 2013, 07:28 PM

DZ101 any good or do I really need the ZII?

Posted by: okieflyr Apr 24 2013, 08:34 PM

The Direzza STAR Spec tires are the ones to run for auto-x. They just released the second generation of the tire but i'm not familiar with the results or popularity concensus yet.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 25 2013, 09:20 AM

I am reading good things about BFGoodrich g-Force Rivals too...
They do not come in a 195 but do come in a 205.

http://www.onehotlap.com/2013/01/bfgoodrich-g-force-rival-plot-thickens.html

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 25 2013, 05:53 PM

3rd run...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GANu4mJZ7iQ

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 26 2013, 06:30 PM

No comments

That nobody is offering me advice isn't that unexpected, but that nobody is giving me shit is practically unacceptable

I'd like to get the Direzza ZII's in a 195/50
They will fit the 5.5 steelies better and I don't have to worry about rubbing

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Apr 26 2013, 10:19 PM

Hey Scott,
I know nothing about AX, but I think it's cool you got your car out there! We're running Falken Azenis RT-615Ks (205/50s) on our car, and while it's close, they fit. Haven't had the chance to shake the car down totally yet, but I threw it into a 90 degree corner at Sebring last weekend doing 50 and the tires barely made a sound. Keep in mind that tire fitment is totally based on wheel offset though. Good luck buddy! Don't be afraid to lower your pressures!

Posted by: bulitt Apr 27 2013, 06:04 AM

And so it starts....Have fun!

Posted by: Woody Apr 27 2013, 01:20 PM

[quote name='scott_in_nh' post='1855852' date='Apr 26 2013, 07:30 PM']
No comments

That nobody is offering me advice isn't that unexpected, but that nobody is giving me shit is practically unacceptable

I'd like to get the Direzza ZII's in a 195/50
They will fit the 5.5 steelies better and I don't have to worry about rubbing
[/quote

Looks good, you made it around the course without getting lost. Now go faster. Yes the 195s will fit better but I would still want the 205s for a little more footprint. You may want to look for some wider wheels. Maybe a 6 or 6.5. Just my $.02.

Posted by: bulitt Apr 27 2013, 04:09 PM

That nobody is offering me advice isn't that unexpected, but that nobody is giving me shit is practically unacceptable


Like Woodman says "go faster". Thats all I know, I'm a conehitter.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 1 2013, 06:40 PM

Round two this Sunday!

Sorry to say I'm still on all season radials, but there is still time to be found in the nut behind the wheel...

Posted by: Woody May 1 2013, 07:44 PM

One of the things that helps me the most is after your first couple runs, after you begin to get comfortable with the course, is to visualize it. Try to remember where you may be able to pick up some time. Maybe areas that you're taking too fast as well and would benefit from slowing down just a bit. It's faster to keep it in tight sometimes.

Posted by: Randal May 3 2013, 01:11 PM

I'm sure the following has already been mentioned, but here are a few more basics.

1. Walk the course

2. Do the walk with an instructor or seasoned driver

3. Figure out where you need to be on the course to make any turn. Some would argue that you first need to decide early or late apex for any particular corner, but figuring out where you want the car (right, left or center) of the course at least gets you close.

4. At any corner decide where you need to be looking (*) when you start the corner. If your not looking where you're going you will end up in the wrong place. Students will always ask, "but how can I drive this corner looking at the next one." If you are looking forward you will automatically set up the car not only for the corner you are in, but also the next apex. Kind of magic!
(*) Don't just look at the corner, look at the exact cones that will end up being your apexs. If you think about that then a 11 corner autox becomes just +/-11 cones, or sets of cones. You can block out all the other cones because they won't be where you are going.

5. When thinking about the course (right on Woody!) visualize where you will be full on the gas, full on the brakes or turning. A perfect autox run is one where you are either accelerating, braking or turning, nothing else. Sometimes in slalom you are accelerating and turning or some combination of these, but the basic principal of going flat out, braking or turning helps you to visualize what you need to do at any point on the course. And trust me you will typically be braking early and will continue to brake early until you run some brake exercises (autox school) where you learn just how quickly your car stops.

6. Walk the course three or four times and by the 3rd/4th time you should have those critical cones viewed and identified each time you come to a corner.

7. After you make a run stop and think about what you did where and what you are going to change. Do this before talking with anyone after you finish a run. Write it down or draw it, whatever get's it into your head best.

8. Learn proper hand positions for any turn.... nah, not going to talk about that now.

Anyway, stuff to think about.

Have fun.

And in car video is really a great teacher. You can watch exactly what your did, in relationship to the above points and figure out what to change next time.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 5 2013, 06:29 PM

Came in 3rd in the novice group today.
I aired down the tires quite a bit.
With the lower pressure I could feel the sidewalls squriming but it seemed to have more traction.
There wasn't any evidence of the tire rolling under....

There is an Dodge Stealth twin turbo AWD that is about a second ahead of me.
I don't think I can catch him on the tires I'm on.
Next race isn't until June 2nd.

After I was done, I did take some rides with other members in their cars - I could do that all day, what a blast!


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Posted by: Randal May 5 2013, 09:26 PM

That is a good performance Scott. Nice going.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 6 2013, 02:01 PM

So I have a stock front bar and a rear bar to put in (but haven't yet).
Everyone says to not run the rear bar in AX anyway, but I am experiencing a fair amount of body roll and am considering the 140 lbs. springs instead.

1) will the ride still be decent enough for a date car or is my girlfriend going to hate it?

2)will they help with the body roll, thereby increasing traction and lowering course times?

3)what is the best way to get back to the correct ride height?

I'll be mounting them on the old 3 click Koni's I have and would assume some type of spacer would be the quick way....

Posted by: 6freak May 6 2013, 03:15 PM

go as fast as you can ,,,then put a good AX driver in the seat and check the times against yours ,that will show you how much you can improve, and dont forget to have fun

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 6 2013, 04:16 PM

I am having fun - Lots of it!
I can't put another driver in it, they would have a hard time with 2nd.

Posted by: SirAndy May 6 2013, 05:48 PM

Slow down ...
This is your 2nd AX?
Stop thinking about what you want to do to the car. Forget new tires. Forget new springs. Forget new sway bars.


Get a good instructor the next time you go out. Listen to them. Then listen some more.
Drive the car the way it is right now.
You need to get a good feel for a stock car on stock tires before you start fiddling with the car setup and components.

I bet a good instructor can help you shave several seconds off your times. For free.
Then get seat time. Lots of it.


PS: Save the new and shiny parts for next season ...

Posted by: Randal May 6 2013, 06:01 PM

To echo Andy's advice.

I listened to Rich Bontempi (High Performance House) when he told me to do nothing but drive for the first year. Also to go to every autox school you can find and take instructors on rides at every event.

I've never had a student that I couldn't get to shave off 7-10 seconds on a 60 second course, so just the car you have is good enough. Just set the tire pressure low enough so that you don't have roll over and you are good to go.

BTW Hank Watt's book on autoxing is good reading material. All the basics are in the book. http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Solo-Racing-Techniques-Autocrossing/dp/0962057312

The only thing I didn't like in the book is his instruction on hand positioning, but this is stuff you'll learn after the basics.

Posted by: SirAndy May 6 2013, 06:13 PM

I tried to use his method but it just doesn't feel right. I have my own way which seems to work ok, but most of all comes natural, without thinking.

The best advice i can give as far as hand positioning goes, either grab the steering wheel really firm or let go of it.

The knock-back can really hurt your fingers and arms and sometimes it's best to just let go, wait for it to straighten itself out and grab it again.

Posted by: Randal May 6 2013, 06:26 PM

I didn't like it either.

My favorite way is to drop my opposite hand to the bottom of the steering wheel (right hand for left turn or left hand for right turn). Then, approaching the corner, start moving the bottom hand up, and move your opposite hand down so that your hands are parallel to the ground when you're in the middle of the corner. You have so much more control this way.

Watch any autox and see how many people are trying to counter steer or whatever with their hands crossed! Like trying to drive up-side-down.

Posted by: mskala May 6 2013, 06:51 PM

putting on new parts IMO requires taking some time to think through,
as chances are it won't be just one thing, and for a car that's been around
for 40 years there will always be people to get opinions from. Also I agree
it's not really the time to do it while you're learning.

If you like that area, our club will be there this saturday. $50
for non-members, sign up by wednesday night.
http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.advert/uidEvent/7FFCCE07-BA38-F339-A25044A050E895A4

If I know the weather will be shitty I won't be going, but probably will go if
the forecast looks okay. I don't know if any other 914's will be there, one of
our best 914 drivers moved away last year and NHMS is more north than
our usual place.

Unless you have a decent video system I think having someone else drive
your car is a waste of time (maybe even then). Instructors can feel what's
going on from the passenger seat. Ride with people who know the line.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 7 2013, 06:38 AM

I would go to a PCA event but I cannot make it this weekend.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 7 2013, 06:46 AM

I know riding with an instructor is a good idea and I will learn things that will make me faster.
Unfortunately I could not make the AX school they ran on saturday
Ditto on reading a good book on the subject.
SCCNH courses are short - in the low 40 second range.
The fastest drive of the day was a 38, my best was a 43 so no we won't be shaving 6-7 seconds off!
Another 1-2 seconds and I would be well in the hunt, not just in the novice class but in Stock Performance class as well.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 7 2013, 06:54 AM

Also I am competing for the Novice championship with other drivers who are also on their 2nd AX so say what you want about not changing the car, when I am on tires with a 440 UTQG and everybody else is on 200, 180 or even 140 tires I am at a disadvantage that will likely keep me from achieving an achievable goal.

Burning off these tires that probably have another two years of regular driving in them and then needing two sets of tires next year doesn't make sense either.

The only thing stopping me is money! It is registration and inspection month for all of my vehicles and my Jeep needs tires too....

Posted by: SirAndy May 7 2013, 11:08 AM

I disagree ... You can throw all the money in the world at your car, and yes, that will make a difference, but much less so that you are expecting.


The most gain will come from seat time and good instructions.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 7 2013, 01:18 PM

No I promise you no money is the reason

I'm not disagreeing and I understand the mantra here of seat time and instruction.

That is great when you are new, running 15th out of 20 cars in class with no hope of placing until you have more experience.

I will only be a novice this one year and you guys are insisting that I remain at a mechanical handicap compared to the other one year only novice drivers.

That is what I disagree with and I feel that is not being taken into consideration.

I could catch 2nd place with tires or more seat time as he is about 1 second ahead, but he will be improving too so it will take both to overtake him.

I honestly don't believe the 1st place driver is a true novice as he is crushing all the rest of us by quite a bit in a MX5 and it will take more skill and good tires at a minimum to catch him.

Even if it could be done by skill alone, it will be too late in the season to catch him.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 7 2013, 02:14 PM

Also you can trust that even if I had $10k to put into the car, I have no interest in doing most of the mods many of you are doing.

I will run stock performance next year, maybe touring, but that's it.

I use the car daily and on dates with my GF, so I do not want to build a stiff riding noisy race car, I just don't want to be mechanically handicapped within my class either....

Posted by: Woody May 8 2013, 06:40 AM

Start with some Dunlop Direzzas or the Hankook RS3s. The new BF Goodrich Rival is gaining popularity and may be next years hot street tire. Those MX5s are very fast and will be a hard car to catch in an otherwise stock 914. If your not running a front swaybar you may want to consider one as well.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 8 2013, 06:51 AM

Thanks Woody, we do use PAX, but I was still shocked how far out front the MX5 is!

I have a front sway bar, no rear. I currently only have some 5.5 steelies to put new tires on which limits me to 195/50's.
I'm ok with that but am worried that it might lower my gearing too much. Right now I can do the entire course in 2nd gear.

The Rivals do not come in 195/50, the Direzza's do, but I'll take a look at the Hankooks too if they come in 195's.

It would be nice to go to 205's, what is out there for cheap 6" rims - anything?

Posted by: Racer Chris May 8 2013, 10:51 AM

You can put 205s on 5.5" rims.
I have them on my street 914.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan May 8 2013, 10:58 AM

Yup, and they look better in my opinion too. But it's a real tight fit, depending on the type of rim. With the EMPIs on our car, and with the car lowered a bit in the back, I've got about a pinkie's width of room to play with.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 8 2013, 11:06 AM

Ok, I've seen some back and forth on this and it seemed that you could get them on, but some suggested you would not really get a benefit over 195's on such a narrow rim.
My rims are the factory sport steel rims.

If the consensus here is that they
1) will fit in the fender well without any real rolling of the fender (I don't mind a gently pull)
2) will be better than 195's then that is the way I'll go

Next SCCNH event isn't until 6/2 so I have some time to find the money....

Posted by: Woody May 8 2013, 01:28 PM

I wouldn't waste the money on 195s. 205s will most certainly be better even on a 5.5 rim. I just gave a halfway used set of 205/50/15 RA1s to a buddy and mounted them on 5.5 fuchs for him. Yeah they're pinched a little but he still has more footprint than a 195 would. Besides you will probably realize that you are going to run a little less air pressure with the 205s than the 195s.

Posted by: Woody May 8 2013, 01:50 PM

Also the Rival lists the recommended rim sizes as 5.5-7.5.


http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Rival&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=05WR5GFR&tab=Specs

Posted by: Woody May 8 2013, 01:52 PM

Actually every 205 I've checked also lists 5.5 as compatible.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 8 2013, 03:09 PM

I have been reading good things about this tire and the price is better then some of the other tires. For some reason most of the 205's are cheaper than the 195's too!

Posted by: 6freak May 8 2013, 03:24 PM

better then an E tickit ride at Disney land ..right on


save your money and just drive ..your already too serious.and your still only useing 1/3 the cars potental

Have fun

Posted by: r_towle May 12 2013, 05:57 PM

hoozier autox tires or khumos work in your specific class?
I have both, I can mount them on some old rivieras and you can run them to the cord....

These are the best type of autox tire, but I am not sure about the rating numbers you are using....
They are street legal DOT approved tires.
They have no tread really...
205/50/15
Fit on mine....but every car is different.


Up to you.

rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 13 2013, 06:44 AM

Hi Rich, thanks that is very generous of you!
The Novice class requires street tires with a UTQG of 140.
It sounds like you have R spec DOT tires.
If I end up holding off on new tires I might take you up on it just to see what they do!

Posted by: r_towle May 13 2013, 08:20 AM

I think they are that.
I dont know what UTQG 140 means...

These are as sticky as the class allowed for "DOT Legal" tires.

They are certainly dedicated autox tires.
Old, but still do the job way better than your street tires.

We can talk, but running street tires can be more educational for you...and alot more fun.
Autox tires help find all the weaknesses of a chassis pretty fast.
They rip suspension points, makes you buy new shocks, sway bars etc etc....

For street tires and speeding up...you need to drive the car totally reverse of any car you think.
When the ass starts to let go, floor it.

Remember that when you do a slalom, everything is done in threes.
So, come in hot, do three cones....SLAM on the brakes when you are straight (its less than a second) then SLAM the gas pedal.

This resets the suspension and dums the weight back to the rear tires for the next three cones.

Its wierd, but it works very well.
Otherwise you are going to slow into the turns, OR, you start loosing it at the fourth turn.

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 13 2013, 09:57 AM

Very interesting driving tips Rich! I'll give it a try

Posted by: r_towle May 13 2013, 04:10 PM

you will never do a burn out or powerslide with a stock 914.
You will however reset the suspension, which most other cars cannot do.

Again...it goes totally against your gut and totally against how you learned to drive, but with THIS car, it works like magic.

By the fourth cone, your back end is up in the air when you turn and all the weight is on the front outside tire.
You touch the brakes, you spin.
If you come off that third cone, just at the transition point, instead of turning, hold the wheel straight, brake hard, hit gas, turn hard.

it takes practice...but it works very well for any turn in a 914.

rich
rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 13 2013, 05:48 PM

I've chirped the tires and slid while powered - doesn't that count



The club doesn't always set up such a long flush (6 cones) as seen in the videos (I can't find what they call it in AX, "flush" is a term we used ski racing to refer to gates in a straight line).

I'll give it a try next time they do!

I know I am not using the brakes as effectively as I might anywhere on the course....

Posted by: r_towle May 14 2013, 07:54 AM

its similar no matter what the situation, so slalom, chicago box, long slaloms etc....its all in threes.
By the third turn if you are no feeling tha ass pucker, you are going to slow. once you get there, reset.
and like I said, its wierd.

If you dont spin the car, you are not trying hard enough.

Once you learn how to reset the suspension, you drive much faster.
it makes you drive the car right up to the limit, then reset it.

Its tricky, but you can feel it when its the right time to hit the brakes...and its not a long period of time, just while you are straight with no g-force on you going sideways....that little moment...SLAM the brakes, then hit the gas.

Like most said here, it takes seats time to learn it.
Are there any other 914 cars there?
If not, I strongly suggest you attend a PCA autox, and hitch a ride in a 914 that the driver is very good.
One ride and I shaved about 3 seconds off my next set of runs.

I got hooked on autox years ago, ended up being the autox chair running the events etc...

I would suggest you plan your upgrades.
leave the front end alone
max of 140 springs in the rear.
keep the car fluid and springy, it turns in faster.
Dont set it up for the track (super stiff) cause that is a totally different problem.

Get your brakes working awesome, they are a key tool in autox.

Then, once you are looking for less than 1-2 seconds, get tires.
Not till then.
You will learn a whole lot more about weight and balance with the street tires....the amplify the issues.

Get good with street tires, then you will be awesome with slicks.

rich

Its just something you need to experience once, then you will have alot more confidence in what these little cars can really do.
Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 14 2013, 08:11 AM

I'm the only 914 in SCCNH which is kinda fun - everybody loves my car and its the fastest 914 there!

I would like to go to a PCA event and will keep an eye on their schedule for an event I can make it to.

I don't have the money right now for tires so it is somewhat moot, but in the novice class I am only 1-2 seconds from being in 1st place so tires are on the short list!

Keep in mind these will still be street tires as that is all that is allowed in class.
R spec DOT tires are not allowed, but "high performance summer tires" as tirerack catagorizes them have way more grip than the "high performance all season tires" I have on there now.

My brakes work well, but I have no idea what pads are in there as they came with the car.

I will wait until after tires to go to 140 lb. springs.

As I mentioned I am having fun, but I have more fun when I can actually compete.
The other drivers in class are novices too, but to a one they are on the stickiest tires allowed and I'm not (and am still coming in 3rd)....

When they post the complete results I will take a look at the PAX time and see how I compare to the stock performance group I would be competing in if it weren't for the novice group. This might give you guys a better picture of where I am actually at.

Posted by: SirAndy May 14 2013, 11:13 AM

I try one last time, after that i shut up.


You think your car is holding you back and i think you are dead wrong.
It's a common beginners mistake and we all fell for it in one way or the other.
A experienced driver could hop in your car the way it is right now, crappy tires and all and run circles around the other guys in your class that run "sticky" tires.

It's not your car that is holding you back, it's you holding your car back.

Get over your pride and ask for a few instructors to drive with you.
Let them give you pointers on how to drive the car faster. Learning to control momentum is a beautiful thing.

The sooner you understand that, the sooner you will be competitive.

Posted by: Randal May 14 2013, 11:33 AM

Great advice Andy.

Posted by: SirAndy May 14 2013, 11:49 AM

Don't make me ... I said i was going to shut up ...

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 14 2013, 12:17 PM

Hi Andy (and Randal), promises, promises!
Only kidding, I am listening and agree with almost everything you are saying!
I am sure my responses are being take way too seriously (happens on forums all the time), so please recognize that I am having a discussion, am playing devils advocate at times, am having some fun and have my own point of view!



While I am a beginner without a lot of seat time in any particular form of racing, and please do not take this as me thinking I am a great driver - I am posting this so that you can know almost as much about me as you seem to already think you do, I have driven:

Several all night SCCA road rallies

A few AX events in the past

A fair amount of laps in a kart. it was my younger brothers but I spent some good seat time in it. He beat Scott Sharp and Randy Lajoie regularily.

An outlaw mini-sprint on dirt - I came in 3rd I 1st time driving it during time trials on a 1/4 mile dirt track. My older brother won 3 championships with it.

A paved circle track winged midget that exceeds 3G's of cornering (at least when my brother drove it) and had a 250+ hp autocraft motor in a 900 lb. car

A legend circle track car where I went fast enough my 1st time in the car to qualify mid pack (if I were to buy my own and race that is)

Did laps in a Ferarri 308 GTB at Lime Rock

I drag race my motorcycle - it is a slow one 11.66 @ 114 mph. 0 - 60 in 3.5 seconds.

I will ride my brother's 8 second drag bike this summer.

I have a single and multi-engine commercial instrument pilots license.

I grew up on dirt bikes and boats (I have a 16' 71 Glastron that does about 55 mph)

My point here is that I am not a great driver as I was off learning how to fly when my brothers were doing all the real racing, but I'm no hack either - I do have skills.
I'm new to AX but I learn quickly and recognize that I need more seat time and sure some instruction as well.
I know this sounds like I am blaming the car, what I am saying is that I know where my skill level is and I recognize what the skill level of those running in my class.
The guy running 1st can definitely drive AX better than me at this time.
The kid in second does not drive better than me.

Yes, my car has more to give then I am getting out of it, even with the current tires, but it isn't putting me on an even playing field either. Yes, one you of guys with a lot of 914 AX experience could run circles around the other rookies, but you aren't a novice, nor are you competing in a novice class.


It is not a pride issue.
I have already ridden in some of their cars to see how they get it done and have no issues with taking one for a ride in my car. Pride hasn't stopped me, making great improvements on my own has, but only temporarily.
Now that I have a little seat time I will take an instructor out my next opportunity.



How is 3rd place not competitive? Why are you so set against me competing on a level playing field with the rest of the cars in my class?
What class do you run in? What tires do you run? Can you win your class with all season radials? If not that must mean you need to learn to drive it right?

I believe my PAX time would put me at least mid pack in a non-novice class (I'll confirm or eat crow when able).

We are all rookies, we are all getting better each time on the track which makes it hard to catch the next guy, but I am reeling in 2nd place, on my own despite the all season tires.

At least Rich understands me (and knows me personally).....

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 14 2013, 12:32 PM

Sorry to post again so soon, but thought an analogy might better explain my position.

My brothers and I were decent ski racers back in the day and at 53 I can still put it to my 20something kids and the younger guys here at work.

If you were new to ski racing the best thing you can do is take as many runs down the course as you can, watch the fast guys and ask for help.
Sound familiar?

Any pair of skis could be used to learn how to ski race.
Sound familiar?

If you were to come to me and say “Scott, the local ski club has a new racing class for beginners and I think I am good enough to win the beginners championship”, I would not tell you to try and do it on the old 195cm straight skis you bought at the ski swap. Even though the group you will race against are beginners too, you will not (likely) be able to win on old straight skis when they are on new shaped skis. The advantages are just too much to overcome.

Some of you guys want me to stay on old straight skis and I don’t get it…..

Posted by: Racer Chris May 14 2013, 12:43 PM

I'd be happy to loan you a set of Fuchs with used Yoko AVS Intermediates but you have to come get them from the car they're holding off the floor in my garage.

Posted by: Borderline May 14 2013, 01:21 PM

Just remember that even street tires degrade with time. You're doing really well right now. Is the money to buy new tires now and then another set for next year? If not, then you have to decide if it better to beat the guys now as a novice or wait until next year and beat that Lotus. If you buy the tires now, they may have degraded too much for next year. hehehe welcome to AX!

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 14 2013, 01:26 PM

I thought of that Bill - I might even want to move up to a class allowing R spec!
But that is racing isn't it?
Next year I can hope that my Jeep and my motorcycle don't both need tires again like they do this year!

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 14 2013, 01:29 PM

That sounds great Chris!
I'll have to look those up to see if they are legal (or maybe you know the utqg?).

I even have a set of steel rims with 165's on them that can hold the car up in place of the Fuchs (Shhhh - Andy might want me to put them on the car so I can learn to drive even better from last place )

Posted by: Racer Chris May 14 2013, 02:07 PM

I'll have to look at the tires to be sure but they have a fairly low treadwear number that I'm pretty sure is at least 140.
IIRC the size is 195/60.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 14 2013, 02:44 PM

From what I can find online they look line they have a treadwear of 160

Posted by: Racer Chris May 15 2013, 06:38 AM

The tires aren't exactly as I remembered them.
They are AVI-55. Size is 185/55-ZR15.
Treadwear # is 180.

Posted by: ww914 May 15 2013, 09:32 AM

Hey Scott

I believe I have posted once on your thread, urging you to get instruction. I too, am new to AX (6 to be exact), but the biggest push for me early on was to get instruction. I have since done many things to the car. You can read all about it in other posts. The problem with this is that every time I make a change, I have to re-learn how the car handles. Yes, it makes me feel good to go a little faster each time, but I wonder if I would have gained the speed with just more experience with the car the way it was for awhile, and left the money in the bank. It seems as though you have the competitive spirit it takes and that is good. I like to wrench on my car, when I am not playing golf, and at nearly 69 have the time to do it, so for me it is all fun. At least while I am healthy enough to do it.

Oh, and the 205's work fine on my 5.5 wheels, but I am going to 7s. I did have to roll the fenders and pull them out a little to get the A6s in there. No big deal.

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 15 2013, 09:50 AM

Hi Warren, thanks for the post(s).
I agree with what you are saying and I agree with you and everyone else who says I can get there with improved driving alone.
The problem as I see it is I can't get there with driving alone and win the cumulative championship.
So the real question is whether the benefit to my competitive nature as you called it is worth $500.
Now that Chris has offered me tires to use I don't see any issues.
As I eluded to before, I'm a quick learner so I do not see a downside to tires, especially when they will only cost a tank of gas.

Posted by: r_towle May 15 2013, 09:56 AM

See if Chris will take you out in YOUR car and show you the weight transfer somewhere...it a parking lot or wherever...
Let him drive.

I autoxed for 2 years with no instruction...cause I am proud.
Then I sat in a very fast guys 914...he could take me by three to five seconds easily and typically got FTD for the whole region.

He took me for one run, hammering the brakes, resetting the car (all the while talking like we were on a sunday drive...funny really)

At the end of the run he said "amazing what these little cars can do huh? you just need to trust the car"

I went on my next run and got within half a second of him eating up three seconds in one simple drive.
I learned something that could not be explained, I needed to feel it to understand what everyone was trying to tell me.

Best thing is Ride in a fast 914...not a 911, but a 914.

rich

Posted by: rwilner May 15 2013, 12:58 PM

Hey Scott,
I have a full set of http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+V710&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=05WR5EV710&tab=Specs. Sounds like they'd push you out of your class, but if you want them, you can come get them for free. I'd say they have at least 50% left.

They're 205s and were mounted on factory Fuchs with no rubbing issues. Incidentally I also have 4 Fuchs if you're also interested in those (not for free!).

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 17 2013, 07:04 AM

Thanks Rich,
I don't want to go to R spec tires this year, but I haven't decided yet what I'll do next season so I might double up on my road trip the CFR to get the other tires and visit you too (though I might still just bite the bullet and by new).
Shoot me a PM about the Fuchs when you have time - no rush...
Scott

Posted by: scott_in_nh May 29 2013, 12:14 PM

Next AX is this Sunday.
I haven't had time to get down to CFR to borrow some tires so I'll be on the Eagle GT's again.
It would be nice to step up and catch the Stealth ahead of me - we'll see!

Posted by: r_towle May 31 2013, 03:26 PM

Where is the autox?

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 1 2013, 07:27 PM

The parking lot at NHMS

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 3 2013, 08:12 AM

My usual nemesis' weren't there, but I slid to a sixth place finish anyway
It was a fun course though and I did have some good runs, I just didn't manage to step up as much as others did during the second set!

Here is how close we are running with PAX (times are rounded):

6th 30.9
5th 30.8
4th 30.7
3rd 30.6
2nd 30.5
1st 29.8 (ok we all got smoke by the guy in the S4)

Hopefully I can make it down to CFR before the next one and borrow some tires...

EDIT: Also, am I correctly grouped for PAX in C Stock?
I ask because on straight time I was 3rd fastest in the novice class, but PAX backed me up 3 spots.

Also, FWIW a mustang convertible that I have been beating all along put on tires and is now beating me in PAX (still slower real time)...

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 3 2013, 11:40 AM

1st run before I remembered to turn off the fogs (I use them as daytime running lights).



Attached image(s)

Posted by: r_towle Jun 3 2013, 11:55 AM

might want an anti sway bar to help that car out.

running against an S4....you will never catch him.
Tires would certainly get you up one second...

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 3 2013, 11:57 AM

It has a stock front bar Rich

Posted by: r_towle Jun 3 2013, 09:12 PM

Can you move the top of the drop link closer to the bar?
I think there are adjustments on the stock bar, not sure though.

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 3 2013, 09:19 PM

Not adjustable.
The body roll is why I was asking about 140 lbs. springs a few posts back.

Posted by: r_towle Jun 3 2013, 09:39 PM

Everything is adjustable

Think about moving the top link about an inch closer to the main bar....

Drill, bolt, simple.

I have 180 lb rears and a 21mm front bar
Bilstiens all around.
Stiff as hell.

Posted by: Woody Jun 4 2013, 06:20 AM

It's a downhill slope from here buddy.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 4 2013, 07:40 AM

Ok, I'll take a look at moving the link.

I know I don't want the car as stiff as yours!

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 4 2013, 07:46 AM

Yeah I know, but I have other expensive hobbies (like eating) that keep it all in check!

I've done a great job so far of not just throwing some new tires on the credit card!

Posted by: r_towle Jun 4 2013, 01:03 PM

Take a look at the bar, the stock ones I have removed had multiple holes in the bar facing forward.
Its not as fine an adjustment as the one I have, but you dont need to fine tune, you need large steps right now to reduce body roll.

Dont move it more than one step at a time.
Get used to it..

Or do it like I know you will....but watch out for the front end pushing...
You dont want a super stiff front with a soft rear...
you want a balance, based upon everything else in your car.

A little bit more bar up front might solve this.

When is the next Autox?

I may have a few things you can borrow to stiffen it up for the event


rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 4 2013, 01:07 PM

Here is what I have




The next one is June 30th.

Although the car rolls hard it is fairly balanced, but does push already....

Posted by: r_towle Jun 4 2013, 01:07 PM

I would like to ask a real question.
Have you spun the car yet?
More than once (different types of turns?)

If not, you are not pushing it hard enough.
It takes one run to win...the rest are practice runs

You can take them in that car, but you need to dance on the edge of a spin...all the time.
So, you need to feel where that line is.

Only way I know how to teach that is to cross the line a few times.
Then you know where the line is.

Then you start feeling that wieght shift and how the car feels right before it spins.
You want to keep the car at that point of right before it spins...
Then its fun.

To me, its constantly moving from one potential spin to the next.

Posted by: r_towle Jun 4 2013, 01:12 PM

I would suggest rear springs are the next upgrade...

Leave the bar...to hard to replace and not as worthwhile as rear springs.

You can also make (or find) other links for the horizontal piece..
If you get that drop link closer to the main bar, you will feel the results.

Me, I found a soft front and a stiff rear works best with the low power of the stock motor.
You need to get the car setup so you can fish tail it with the gas pedal...
That is motor, or suspension.

If you are low budget....think about rubber spacers in the rear springs.
Cheap to make, and wire them in place.

rich

Posted by: Woody Jun 4 2013, 02:19 PM

I agree that rear springs should be your next upgrade but come on Rich, spacers?

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 4 2013, 02:24 PM

Yes I have lost the back end of the car a few times, usually in the slalom but it also comes out in the long sweepers when the power is down.

Everyplace else it pushes.

On my best run I got compliments from guys who didn't even see my time - they just liked the way I was driving it hard!

So I believe I am driving with the aggresivness that you are looking for Rich

If you look in the classifieds you will see where I already put a WTB for rear springs so it sounds like I'm doing what I can on my budget.

Making shorter arms for the front bar wouldn't be that hard, but I just don't have the time.

Posted by: r_towle Jun 4 2013, 02:56 PM

Springs may not be simple to find used, at least the 140lb ones...

Cant hurt to ask around though.

Little Foreign Car shop, Watertown MA
Autosport Engineering , Stow MA
Mikes Autobody, northshore somewhere.

All have had 914 race cars...and all have had large spare assortments.

The other place to ask around might be 914club...
More northeast guys kicking around there, though I have not been there in a while.

rich

Posted by: r_towle Jun 4 2013, 02:59 PM

Romanowski might also know where some spare springs might be.
He has a 914 racecar, NH region.


rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 5 2013, 06:52 AM

I'm being offered 165 lbs springs - what is the concensus on these?
I think they will be too stiff for me for the road and without stiffening the front will make the car too "assy"

EDIT: they are proggresive so maybe not too stiff?
Also, what role do struts/shocks play in AX?

Posted by: Woody Jun 5 2013, 07:13 AM

I don't like progressive springs but you should be fine with 165 pounders. The car will understeer much less but the car will be tail happy. This will give you a reason to upgrade your front swaybar which is your next step anyways.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 5 2013, 08:23 AM

I'm thinking that because they are proggresive the ride won't be so stiff as to entirely ruin its "date car" status?

Not that big of a risk really, I have a set of Konis to mount them on so I can leave the 100 lbs springs on the stock shocks.

Posted by: Woody Jun 5 2013, 08:52 AM

I don't think 165 lb springs would be too heavy. I'm running 250 pounders on mine and its not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

Posted by: r_towle Jun 5 2013, 09:48 AM

you will like them.
Ride wont be affected much until you get into it...so the cruise is about the same...
Its kinda like putting in rubber spacers

rich

Posted by: Borderline Jun 5 2013, 01:23 PM

If those springs are like the ones I had, they are not progressive. There are a couple coils that are wound tighter than the rest and they go solid when the car is lowered to the ground yielding a 165# spring. If you mount them on your Konis, you will probably feel the ride is a lot stiffer. I think what you will feel is the stiffer Konis not the springs. IMHO

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 5 2013, 01:31 PM

Thanks Bill

So what you are saying is they are not really progressive but, shocks aside, they ride ok?

What are you running up front (torsion and sway bar)?

Posted by: Borderline Jun 5 2013, 02:13 PM

You don't want what I've got. I'm married and don't take the 914 out on dates!
I've got 22mm front Tbars, 19mm front sway bar and 225# rear springs. The car is so stiff I don't like driving it on the road. It gets driven to and from the AX only

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 6 2013, 02:31 PM

So I bought a set of new in box 165 lbs "progressive" springs.
I'll mount them on the Koni red shocks that I bought last year using home made spacers to get the ride height in the right region (threaded adapters being considered as a future upgrade).

If the ride is acceptable, they will stay on.

If the ride is too harsh I will save them for AX and mount a stock rear bar for the street.

I am also looking to make my front sway bar adjustable so I can stiffen it up a touch.

thanks

Posted by: r_towle Jun 6 2013, 05:07 PM

Good luck, I am around this weekend, full shop if you need to make or break something.

Rich

Posted by: Borderline Jun 6 2013, 05:54 PM

Are the Koni reds adjustable? I would set them at full soft if they are. At least try to get a fair comparison.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 6 2013, 08:17 PM

Yes they are.
I will set them full soft.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 6 2013, 08:18 PM

Thanks Rich,
not sure about this weekend, maybe I'll see you at German Car Day?

Posted by: r_towle Jun 6 2013, 08:25 PM

Geez, when is that?

Just offering a fully equipped shop if you need it.

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 6 2013, 08:36 PM

Father's Day.
I appreciate the offer and may take you up when I try to make some adjustable sway bar arms!

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 7 2013, 09:27 AM

So here are the springs I purchased.

Can anybody venture what size spacer I should use to get these to about the same ride height as 100 lbs. springs?




Attached image(s)

Posted by: r_towle Jun 7 2013, 01:18 PM

post a pic of the shocks...

My bilstiens are adjustable.
I can setup my 180 lbs springs at stock height already.

Otherwise...
Pull the shock and measure it unloaded.
Put the koni together wit the new spring (no spacer)

Measure both unloaded.
Stand up the setup shock, (tricky part) balance a wheel on top and put your weight on it while measuring it....
Fun

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 7 2013, 01:32 PM

I'll take a picture, but they are not adjustable.

I was thinking I could measure the sag (jack the car up until it starts to lift the tire and measure that vs. sitting on the ground) with the 100 lbs springs and then try some calculations based on free length, installed preload and spring rate to come up with the height.

Otherwise I will just mount them once, measure, unmount, dissassemble, install spacers and remount.

Since the springs are not here yet, the math might be fun to try and the worse thing that will happen is I need to dissassemble as above...

Posted by: r_towle Jun 7 2013, 02:23 PM

you can do the math
165 lbs per inch or , fat guy leaning on a tire

rich

Posted by: r_towle Jun 7 2013, 02:48 PM

Fathers day is the 16th btw....

rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 7 2013, 02:51 PM

I know, assuming the weather improves I'll be in Brookline

Posted by: r_towle Jun 7 2013, 02:52 PM

Interesting springs.
They do not appears to be as progressive rate as the 140 lb ones I put in Abels car.

Those had a significant different in how close together the coils were are the bottom of the springe versus the top.

Depending upon two things, you should be able to plot out the ride height.

First, overall spring height versus the stock springs you already have.
Second, the spring rate, which will increase as the spring becomes compressed...
For that set of input numbers you may be better off getting that from the manufaturer...should not be consistant for either spring...but should spike more on the 165 lb springs.

rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 7 2013, 02:56 PM

Yeah, but I don't have scales to measure the rear wheel weight.

So I need to calculate the preload for the 100 lbs. springs from the free to the installed length, then calculate the load from the sag. Add the two togehter for the total load.

Then Calculate the preload for the installed 165 lbs. springs, subtract that from the load and calculate how much they will compress by the left over load.

easy-peezy

Posted by: r_towle Jun 7 2013, 03:53 PM

dont forget the aging factor of both sets of springs....

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 29 2013, 09:43 AM

So I put the 165 lbs. mystery springs on and discovered why it was leaning so far with what I had on it!

When I was assembling the Koni's with the springs I noticed I didn't have the snubbers.

So I figured I would have to take them off the shocks I was taking out - but they didn't have any either - LOL!

That's the way it came and that's the way I've been driving it!

The good news is the 165 lbs springs went on without spacers and without having to compress the springs any more than you could do by hand!

Next AX is tomorrow - wish me luck!

EDIT: Where can I get the snubbers - I don't see them on Pelican?

Posted by: Randal Jun 29 2013, 09:57 AM

Break a leg and afterwards tell us how the car handled!

Posted by: Woody Jun 29 2013, 10:45 AM

Posted by: Racer Chris Jun 29 2013, 10:51 AM

The bump rubbers shouldn't affect the amount of body roll.
They are there to prevent bottoming of the shocks, which damages the internal valves.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 29 2013, 11:42 AM

Thanks, I've stopped missing them already!

Posted by: Racer Chris Jun 29 2013, 08:48 PM

At a minimum you need a few plastic washers on the shock piston to prevent the shock from bottoming out.

Posted by: r_towle Jun 30 2013, 12:27 PM

So, how did you do?

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 30 2013, 05:11 PM

There were some fast cars in the novice class, so I didn't place.

That said, I had more fun driving this car today than I have since I've owned it!

Yes it had a good amount of oversteer going at times, but it was much flatter and could be steered with the throttle for the 1st time ever.

I was probably only a little faster than before, but they set up a real open course - about as fast as you can go given the confines and still have mid 30 second runs.

I think I would have done better on a tighter course like the ones they had been running

So yes I need more front sway bar, but I finally have a car where changing airpressure actually has a noticable and tunable effect.

I swear it pushed so bad before with just a stock front bar that no matter what you did with the air pressure, the chassis dynamics never really changed or just got worse.

If any good (or bad) pictures surface I will repost here.

I also love the way the new 165 lbs progressive spring and Koni reds work on the road.

I swear it rides firm, but better than before and nver jaring.

Chris I have one plastic washer on each side. How many should I have?

Scott

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jun 30 2013, 05:54 PM

From today - on the gas heading down the back "straight".
Yes, I am turning (but not as hard as the last AX).


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Woody Jun 30 2013, 06:20 PM

Nice. Car looks good.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jul 1 2013, 05:47 AM

So I am looking at options for making my front sway bar adjustable, but if I happen to come across a used adjustable bar for sale - what size is the right bar for me?

Posted by: Woody Jul 1 2013, 06:18 AM

I would tell you to get a 22 on its softest setting but only if you plan to keep modding the car. If you are going to stay close to your current configuration then get the 19mm. It may be worth it to spend a little bit more and buy a setup that the bar can be changed as the car progresses.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jul 1 2013, 06:25 AM

Never say never, but in the next few years I don't see going much beyond a 2056 engine, 205 tires, new front inserts, bump steer kit, maybe stiffen the chassis...

I like it more than ever as a street car - not looking to change that.
I want to build in adjustability more than all out performance.

Posted by: Woody Jul 1 2013, 07:15 AM

A 22 swaybar may be a bit much for the 165 pound rear springs. Which torsion bars are you using?

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jul 1 2013, 08:32 AM

I have stock torsion bars, stock front bar (15mm?)

Posted by: r_towle Jul 1 2013, 09:12 AM

You may be surprised it what adding an adjustable link (the horizontal piece) would do for you.

If you can afford to buy a bigger bar, great.
Go for a nice piece of engineering...I don't like my weltmiester bar...
I would shoot for a starret bar.

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jul 1 2013, 09:19 AM

Adding adjustment to the stock bar is the plan Rich, but until it happens its worth watching what comes up for sale, so I was curious what I should watch for....

I've been meaning to post my birthday/father's Day present my son bought for me




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Woody Jul 1 2013, 10:20 AM

The Momo? Sweet. That's a great mod.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 1 2013, 01:42 PM

I would aim higher.

Posted by: Woody Jul 1 2013, 01:49 PM

Thats a very nice bar you sell there Chris. Very reasonably priced as well.

Posted by: r_towle Jul 1 2013, 02:56 PM

sorry, did not know you sold a bar...
Good to know.

I meant tarrett, but heck, if Foley is selling one...lets buy from him.

rich

Posted by: Woody Jul 1 2013, 03:26 PM

This will be my next bar.

http://www.tangerineracing.com/antiswaybars.htm

Posted by: scott_in_nh Jul 11 2013, 11:04 AM

So a friend of mine at work is going to help me make some adjustable bar ends and links from a sketch I came up with.
We are going to make the arms out of 2"x1" aluminum bar stock and add and adjustable heim joint to the bottom of the stock link.
I just ordered the aluminum bar stock, total materials should come in at about $50!

sketch (not to scale):


Attached image(s)

Posted by: scott_in_nh Aug 5 2013, 11:49 AM

So I didn't finish both sides in time and had to adjust the side I had on to match the stock side.

I'm going to change to homemade drop links with heims on both ends for easier adjustment.

Had some good runs and finished 6th out of 14 in the novice class.

I beat the next three cars ahead of me on raw time, but lost on PAX

Now that tire pressure actually makes a difference, I found myself back at the 38 psi Racer Chris recommended!

On a bad note, we had a guy show up in a super-charged Lotus.
He took one run where he let the instructor drive and went solo after that.

He had the misfortune of running out of talent on an off camber dip in the track where he lost the back end, didn't lift, the car hooked and shot him off the track where he hit a spectator who had his back to the track and slid backwards up the grassy hill almost onto the road.

I was eating lunch and turned around in time to see him and the spectator sliding across the pavement! They were both very lucky in that the spectator "only" got his ankle broken and a small patch of road rash, and the car has some lower front fender damage and a broken splitter.

Also a member died last week while hiking with some of his kids

Be careful out there folks!

Posted by: Woody Aug 5 2013, 03:33 PM

We've had several incidents this past year. No one got hurt except the cars. Always keep an eye out if you're anywhere near the course.

Posted by: mskala Aug 5 2013, 04:26 PM

I had instructed what must have been the same car the previous day.
I only went 3 times among the 2 drivers, they weren't great but didn't
do anything dumb either. I don't like the small parking lot courses
because the designs have to take all sorts of things into account for
safety. Where we are it's an air strip and much easier to manage.

Posted by: Woody Aug 5 2013, 07:11 PM

I wish we had an airstrip. We have a decent size parking lot but we certainly have boundaries.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Aug 6 2013, 06:21 AM

grey Lotus, guy was short and a little pudgy, spikey hair, cheesy mustache, glasses. The waist of his shorts was a little below his chest....

Yeah he is a little goofy looking, but hey he can afford a Lotus

Our usual lot is big enough that you'd have to try really hard to hit something other than people or the timing trailer.

I liked the course and the lot, everybody just needs to be more careful!

Posted by: r_towle Aug 6 2013, 01:13 PM

Seems the safety captain needs to look at the course layout to determine where people should be allowed to spectate....then close off certain areas each event.

Sounds like someone was spectating at an outer corner and physics took over.

Rich

Posted by: scott_in_nh Aug 6 2013, 01:33 PM

That is what was done after the fact, so hopefully the club learned something going forward.

The guy who got hit also had his back to the cars even though he was on the edge of where the course area was blocked off.

I always warn people I take to any race track to keep their head out of their ass, watch the cars and avoid high risk areas!

Posted by: mskala Aug 6 2013, 02:50 PM

Here is one of the reasons we have all the rules for how
far away you have to be and no cell phones, no sitting down,
etc. Me in 2004. This guy was within about 12 feet of being
one with my skid plate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8BGoYCElbw

Posted by: r_towle Aug 6 2013, 08:28 PM

Wtf is your gas pedal doing on the passenger side of the car???


Just proves my point btw....he stood in a stupid place.
Physics are what they are....he should have been about 50 to 100 feet closer to the start....lazy guy did not want to walk for cones.

At least he was standing....bet he never stood there for the rest of the day


I believe the best safety captain I have met is from the ncr region.
He goes out and checks that before the race, and no spectators a allowed on the course edges....

Posted by: scott_in_nh Aug 28 2013, 08:49 AM

So we had a problem/accident free AX last Sunday.

I beat the cars I wanted too/usually beat, lost to the cars I usually lose to and had fun.

I took my adjustable sway bar end "proof of concept" parts out until my buddy can make me the spacers I need and I make nicer mounting brackets (as well as decide on the length of the new drop links with heims on both ends).

I am currently 3rd based on points + highest finish (?) but am tied in points with my nemesis (late 90's Mustang convertible #666). his PAX deducts about an extra second from mine, so as long as I beat him by a second or more I'm good (and I have been the last couple of events).

1st and 2nd are too far ahead to catch, but 3rd is only 7 points ahead of me!

It would be nice to at least get a podium finish in the points, but I am coming into some work travel that may prevent me from making it to all 3 remaining events.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Sep 11 2013, 11:01 AM

Finished in about my usual place, beat the drivers I wanted to beat....
I'm goingto be coming home from Europe during the next event, so a podium finish for the year is probably not going to happen

Still had a great time, made good friends and learned a lot though




Attached image(s)

Posted by: Woody Sep 11 2013, 12:22 PM

Good looking car.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Sep 11 2013, 12:31 PM

Thanks, she looks good from 10 or more feet