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914World.com _ The Paddock _ American Racer Tires
Posted by: Woody Mar 26 2014, 06:39 AM
Can't really spring for a set of Avons right now so I am going to give these a shot. Its a bias slick in 10x23.5x15 with a fancy new AX compound and construction. These guys are trying to break into the AX and roadrace market since Goodyear went away. Unfortunately they don't offer many different sizes so I am stuck with going with a square setup. There is a local guy running them in an XP miata and he is very fast with them. He also runs Avons and said the American Racers are comparable. I will be running these on my 15x8s and 15x10s so the fronts will be a little bit pinched but I think it will work. Best part is shipped they were under $700. I'll let y'all know how they work out.
Posted by: jjackson Mar 26 2014, 10:03 AM
Can't really spring for a set of Avons right now so I am going to give these a shot. Its a bias slick in 10x23.5x15 with a fancy new AX compound and construction. These guys are trying to break into the AX and roadrace market since Goodyear went away. Unfortunately they don't offer many different sizes so I am stuck with going with a square setup. There is a local guy running them in an XP miata and he is very fast with them. He also runs Avons and said the American Racers are comparable. I will be running these on my 15x8s and 15x10s so the fronts will be a little bit pinched but I think it will work. Best part is shipped they were under $700. I'll let y'all know how they work out.
Just ran against Nick this weekend-Seemed like a nice guy- let us know what you think about the new tire. J
Posted by: Matt Romanowski Mar 26 2014, 10:08 AM
They make a lot of spec tires for different series. I've always heard they are much slower than other tires, but maybe they have something new.
Posted by: Woody Mar 26 2014, 10:29 AM
Can't really spring for a set of Avons right now so I am going to give these a shot. Its a bias slick in 10x23.5x15 with a fancy new AX compound and construction. These guys are trying to break into the AX and roadrace market since Goodyear went away. Unfortunately they don't offer many different sizes so I am stuck with going with a square setup. There is a local guy running them in an XP miata and he is very fast with them. He also runs Avons and said the American Racers are comparable. I will be running these on my 15x8s and 15x10s so the fronts will be a little bit pinched but I think it will work. Best part is shipped they were under $700. I'll let y'all know how they work out.
Just ran against Nick this weekend-Seemed like a nice guy- let us know what you think about the new tire. J
Yup he's a really nice guy. Very friendly and willing to talk about his setup. Was he running the American Racers or the Avons?
They make a lot of spec tires for different series. I've always heard they are much slower than other tires, but maybe they have something new.
Yes, they have a new compound called SC2100 if I remember correctly. I'm skeptical but we will see.
Posted by: jjackson Mar 26 2014, 10:46 AM
Can't really spring for a set of Avons right now so I am going to give these a shot. Its a bias slick in 10x23.5x15 with a fancy new AX compound and construction. These guys are trying to break into the AX and roadrace market since Goodyear went away. Unfortunately they don't offer many different sizes so I am stuck with going with a square setup. There is a local guy running them in an XP miata and he is very fast with them. He also runs Avons and said the American Racers are comparable. I will be running these on my 15x8s and 15x10s so the fronts will be a little bit pinched but I think it will work. Best part is shipped they were under $700. I'll let y'all know how they work out.
Just ran against Nick this weekend-Seemed like a nice guy- let us know what you think about the new tire. J
Yup he's a really nice guy. Very friendly and willing to talk about his setup. Was he running the American Racers or the Avons?
They make a lot of spec tires for different series. I've always heard they are much slower than other tires, but maybe they have something new.
Yes, they have a new compound called SC2100 if I remember correctly. I'm skeptical but we will see.
He was running the american racers-said he liked them.
Posted by: Woody Mar 26 2014, 10:59 AM
Can't really spring for a set of Avons right now so I am going to give these a shot. Its a bias slick in 10x23.5x15 with a fancy new AX compound and construction. These guys are trying to break into the AX and roadrace market since Goodyear went away. Unfortunately they don't offer many different sizes so I am stuck with going with a square setup. There is a local guy running them in an XP miata and he is very fast with them. He also runs Avons and said the American Racers are comparable. I will be running these on my 15x8s and 15x10s so the fronts will be a little bit pinched but I think it will work. Best part is shipped they were under $700. I'll let y'all know how they work out.
Just ran against Nick this weekend-Seemed like a nice guy- let us know what you think about the new tire. J
Yup he's a really nice guy. Very friendly and willing to talk about his setup. Was he running the American Racers or the Avons?
They make a lot of spec tires for different series. I've always heard they are much slower than other tires, but maybe they have something new.
Yes, they have a new compound called SC2100 if I remember correctly. I'm skeptical but we will see.
He was running the american racers-said he liked them.
Was he fast? Comparatively?
Posted by: Randal Mar 26 2014, 12:07 PM
Can't really spring for a set of Avons right now so I am going to give these a shot. Its a bias slick in 10x23.5x15 with a fancy new AX compound and construction. These guys are trying to break into the AX and roadrace market since Goodyear went away. Unfortunately they don't offer many different sizes so I am stuck with going with a square setup. There is a local guy running them in an XP miata and he is very fast with them. He also runs Avons and said the American Racers are comparable. I will be running these on my 15x8s and 15x10s so the fronts will be a little bit pinched but I think it will work. Best part is shipped they were under $700. I'll let y'all know how they work out.
Wow, the price is right and shipping being included is very attractive.
Did you contact them to ask about their plan for different sizes?
Posted by: Woody Mar 26 2014, 12:39 PM
I talked to Joe Henry at Day Motorsports in Texas, they are the distributor for the south. He said they will be coming out with some more sizes hopefully by the summer but couldn't tell me more than that. He was more of a salesman than a tire guru but had a couple of notes on the tires. He could not tell me what alignment settings or air pressure to begin with. He also couldn't tell me what the optimum tire temp for these would be. Problem is when I attempted to email American Racer directly they would forward my emails to Joe. I haven't run bias slicks before so I'll probably start with a degree of negative camber in the front, maybe 1/2 out back. I was running the A6s hot at 22 front and 21 rear. Probably try to shoot for that and see how it does.
Posted by: nolift914 Mar 26 2014, 01:02 PM
I talked to Joe Henry at Day Motorsports in Texas, they are the distributor for the south. He said they will be coming out with some more sizes hopefully by the summer but couldn't tell me more than that. He was more of a salesman than a tire guru but had a couple of notes on the tires. He could not tell me what alignment settings or air pressure to begin with. He also couldn't tell me what the optimum tire temp for these would be. Problem is when I attempted to email American Racer directly they would forward my emails to Joe. I haven't run bias slicks before so I'll probably start with a degree of negative camber in the front, maybe 1/2 out back. I was running the A6s hot at 22 front and 21 rear. Probably try to shoot for that and see how it does.
Keep us posted
Posted by: Randal Mar 26 2014, 02:39 PM
I talked to Joe Henry at Day Motorsports in Texas, they are the distributor for the south. He said they will be coming out with some more sizes hopefully by the summer but couldn't tell me more than that. He was more of a salesman than a tire guru but had a couple of notes on the tires. He could not tell me what alignment settings or air pressure to begin with. He also couldn't tell me what the optimum tire temp for these would be. Problem is when I attempted to email American Racer directly they would forward my emails to Joe. I haven't run bias slicks before so I'll probably start with a degree of negative camber in the front, maybe 1/2 out back. I was running the A6s hot at 22 front and 21 rear. Probably try to shoot for that and see how it does.
A few of us have lots of experience with bias ply slicks having run them for years. When you get ready for alignment I'll suggest a couple people for you to call. But in any event bias ply slicks like to be run straight up with very little camber and tow in. This applies to both Goodyear and Avons. As you run them and watch temperatures you'll see exactly what you need to do to get the tires hooked up.
Tell us about their soft compounds.
Posted by: Woody Mar 26 2014, 03:22 PM
I talked to Joe Henry at Day Motorsports in Texas, they are the distributor for the south. He said they will be coming out with some more sizes hopefully by the summer but couldn't tell me more than that. He was more of a salesman than a tire guru but had a couple of notes on the tires. He could not tell me what alignment settings or air pressure to begin with. He also couldn't tell me what the optimum tire temp for these would be. Problem is when I attempted to email American Racer directly they would forward my emails to Joe. I haven't run bias slicks before so I'll probably start with a degree of negative camber in the front, maybe 1/2 out back. I was running the A6s hot at 22 front and 21 rear. Probably try to shoot for that and see how it does.
A few of us have lots of experience with bias ply slicks having run them for years. When you get ready for alignment I'll suggest a couple people for you to call. But in any event bias ply slicks like to be run straight up with very little camber and tow in. This applies to both Goodyear and Avons. As you run them and watch temperatures you'll see exactly what you need to do to get the tires hooked up.
Tell us about their soft compounds.
Will do. I only toe in the rear. The front is toed out.
Posted by: Randal Mar 26 2014, 03:36 PM
I talked to Joe Henry at Day Motorsports in Texas, they are the distributor for the south. He said they will be coming out with some more sizes hopefully by the summer but couldn't tell me more than that. He was more of a salesman than a tire guru but had a couple of notes on the tires. He could not tell me what alignment settings or air pressure to begin with. He also couldn't tell me what the optimum tire temp for these would be. Problem is when I attempted to email American Racer directly they would forward my emails to Joe. I haven't run bias slicks before so I'll probably start with a degree of negative camber in the front, maybe 1/2 out back. I was running the A6s hot at 22 front and 21 rear. Probably try to shoot for that and see how it does.
A few of us have lots of experience with bias ply slicks having run them for years. When you get ready for alignment I'll suggest a couple people for you to call. But in any event bias ply slicks like to be run straight up with very little camber and tow in. This applies to both Goodyear and Avons. As you run them and watch temperatures you'll see exactly what you need to do to get the tires hooked up.
Tell us about their soft compounds.
Will do. I only toe in the rear. The front is toed out.
Ah, that trick, especially with somewhat extreme settings, has been used by a few SCCA National Champs we know.
Posted by: Woody Mar 29 2014, 12:16 PM
After they were mounted they are a touch narrower than the 275 A6s. The fronts are squeezed onto my 8s but they look good. 
Posted by: Woody Mar 29 2014, 12:19 PM
Posted by: Woody Mar 29 2014, 12:20 PM
Posted by: Woody Mar 29 2014, 12:21 PM
Posted by: Woody Mar 29 2014, 12:22 PM
I'll see how this works next Sunday. 
Posted by: Randal Mar 29 2014, 03:13 PM
I'll see how this works next Sunday.
Aren't those bias ply?
Suggestion: You might consider a duck tail on your rear trunk, even for Autoxing.
You can see the air movement with both here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRo-C0JpVOs&feature=youtu.be
Lots of air being forced under the car, so lots of downforce on the front and the splitter pushed down at the back.
Posted by: Woody Mar 29 2014, 03:20 PM
Yes they are bias ply. That's the minimum amount of camber I could run in the front. On the rear I need to come up with some longer bolts for the shim stack. I'm going to run it with these settings next Sunday and take some temps. If there is too much camber I'll have to get creative.
I'm going to be working on a splitter and a wing here pretty soon.
Posted by: Woody Apr 7 2014, 08:49 AM
I ran them yesterday in the rain. There was very little standing water so I went with the slicks instead of my 888s. First impressions were pretty good although my driving sucked. Turn in is less crisp than with the A6s but it was an easy adjustment. They feel different under braking and I was having a hard time finding the threshold, granted the tire is a bit taller and it was wet out. I didn't find the limit through the slaloms but they would understeer just a bit mid corner before the back end would start to slide. Tire temps never got above 72 degrees with the rain. I started at 20 psi front cold and 19 psi rear cold and gained maybe 1 psi all around. I have another event this coming weekend so hopefully I can provide a better review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX2Urw2U5iQ
Posted by: Randal Apr 7 2014, 09:00 AM
I ran them yesterday in the rain. There was very little standing water so I went with the slicks instead of my 888s. First impressions were pretty good although my driving sucked. Turn in is less crisp than with the A6s but it was an easy adjustment. They feel different under braking and I was having a hard time finding the threshold, granted the tire is a bit taller and it was wet out. I didn't find the limit through the slaloms but they would understeer just a bit mid corner before the back end would start to slide. Tire temps never got above 72 degrees with the rain. I started at 20 psi front cold and 19 psi rear cold and gained maybe 1 psi all around. I have another event this coming weekend so hopefully I can provide a better review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX2Urw2U5iQ
72 degrees? That is freezing for a slick; reminds me of the Medford Spring Enduro last year.
You'll have some real fun when you find the temperature where the mechanical grip turns to sticky.
Posted by: Matt Romanowski Apr 7 2014, 12:13 PM
How did you fit 275s on 8s? Those usually need at least a 9 and can go on a 10" wheel.
Posted by: Woody Apr 7 2014, 01:06 PM
How did you fit 275s on 8s? Those usually need at least a 9 and can go on a 10" wheel.
I was running 225s up front on 8s and 275s on 10s out back. Now I'm running the slicks square on those same 8s and 10s. I was not square with the A6s.
Posted by: Matt Romanowski Apr 7 2014, 01:43 PM
I'm surprised you could fit a 275 on an 8" rim. That is not an optimal rim width for that tire.
Posted by: Woody Apr 7 2014, 01:48 PM
I wasn't. I was running a 225 on the 8s.
Posted by: Woody Apr 7 2014, 01:53 PM
I wouldn't try mounting a 275 A6 on an 8" wheel. With the 10" bias tire it doesn't seem to mind one bit.
Posted by: Matt Romanowski Apr 8 2014, 07:54 AM
You should talk to the tire engineer and see what he says. You can shoe horn wide tires on narrow rims, but it rounds out the contact patch and you will actually lose grip. Bias plys will mount on narrower rims because of the flexibility in the carcass, but it's not always good.
Posted by: koozy Apr 8 2014, 08:17 AM
I'm looking forward to hearing what the results will be with warm/dry weather testing.
Posted by: brant Apr 8 2014, 08:23 AM
72 degree's ambiant or tire temp?
we have had a lot of TTOD in temps like that... the tires can still work if you have the right tire temp built up.
Posted by: Han Solo Apr 8 2014, 08:25 AM
A little off topic but...
Woody, what type of fastener are you using on your fiberglass fender flares? I'm doing an autocross build and that would simply things greatly. Thanks!
Posted by: koozy Apr 8 2014, 08:29 AM
72 degree's ambiant or tire temp?
we have had a lot of TTOD in temps like that... the tires can still work if you have the right tire temp built up.
72 and wet? Daunting
Posted by: Woody Apr 8 2014, 04:42 PM
You should talk to the tire engineer and see what he says. You can shoe horn wide tires on narrow rims, but it rounds out the contact patch and you will actually lose grip. Bias plys will mount on narrower rims because of the flexibility in the carcass, but it's not always good.
I would think this would be visible taking tire temps, no? The car is set up for staggered tires. My intent was to lose a little bit of tire width up front by squeezing the tires on the rims so I could kinda sorta maintain that stagger as I like the way the car feels. Yes, its probably not the right answer but I cannot swing for a set of Avons right now.
72 degree's ambiant or tire temp?
we have had a lot of TTOD in temps like that... the tires can still work if you have the right tire temp built up.
Tire temps immediatly after a run. Ambient may have been a little colder.
A little off topic but...
Woody, what type of fastener are you using on your fiberglass fender flares? I'm doing an autocross build and that would simply things greatly. Thanks!
I am just using big headed 3/16 aluminum rivets with a fender washer on the backside.
72 degree's ambiant or tire temp?
we have had a lot of TTOD in temps like that... the tires can still work if you have the right tire temp built up.
72 and wet? Daunting
I have a few FTDs in the wet. These tires in my opinion felt better than the A6s in similar conditions.
Posted by: koozy Apr 8 2014, 04:45 PM
My car wilts in the rain
Posted by: Woody Apr 14 2014, 07:25 AM
Well we had great weather yesterday and I got 5 good runs in. On a 35 second course the car is at least a half second faster than it ever was on the A6s, maybe a full second. The need for a TB diff is exagerated with this setup so I ended up going full stiff on the front bar. It helped but just masked the problem. Turn in was great, Haven't found the limit while in the slaloms and it seems very predictable mid corner. It was about 85 degrees ambient and I saw 110 on the tires which was close to what the other guys were seeing.
My two best runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exodqAGWBXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1o1TbTK-dU
Posted by: koozy Apr 14 2014, 08:40 AM
Very interesting. What pressures were you running?
Posted by: stownsen914 Apr 14 2014, 09:36 AM
My car wilts in the rain
Ha. Mine melts
Open top car on slicks and rain - bad mix ...
Posted by: Woody Apr 14 2014, 11:16 AM
Very interesting. What pressures were you running?
Ended up at 21 hot all around. Still have a bit of tuning to do. Temps were even across the tires, within 5 degrees.
Posted by: koozy Apr 14 2014, 11:31 AM
Ah, low pressures. They must have a robust sidewall. Very nice results. Can't wait to see how they hold up. What alignment specs are you running?
Posted by: Woody Apr 14 2014, 12:18 PM
Ah, low pressures. They must have a robust sidewall. Very nice results. Can't wait to see how they hold up. What alignment specs are you running?
-1 degree front, -.75 degrees in the back. Slight toe in rear, toe out front.
Posted by: Woody Apr 14 2014, 12:19 PM
Posted by: Woody Apr 16 2014, 09:22 AM
Posted by: '73-914kid Apr 16 2014, 06:20 PM
An aside...
These seem to be the preffered tire for some of the local Formula Ford guys becasue of price, availability, and grip... I think I'll order a set once I have my car back together.
Posted by: Woody Apr 19 2014, 07:35 AM
Posted by: Seabird Apr 19 2014, 08:53 AM
Dang! Looking tough out there!
Posted by: Woody Apr 19 2014, 12:16 PM
Dang! Looking tough out there!
Thanks bud.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 24 2014, 08:22 PM
Looks to me like a few to many lbs of pressure....
Posted by: Woody Apr 25 2014, 05:57 PM
Looks to me like a few to many lbs of pressure....
You think so? Enlighten me. I am new to bias tires. Temps were spot on.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 26 2014, 05:23 PM
See how the back tire is flexing in the corner and the front is not.
I would suggest that you might want to have the fronts able to flex the same amount.
I am specifically looking at the sidewall of the tire in the pictures above.
Posted by: Woody Apr 26 2014, 06:37 PM
I'll let a pound or so out but I think what you are seeing is that I am running 10s front and rear but using 8 inch rims up front and 10" rims out back so the front tires are pinched just a bit.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 27 2014, 07:46 AM
I see that wheel width difference, and if your runs a great, leave it alone.
I just remember how well these cars push....
The pic with one tire off the ground, I would think the remaining tire would be flexing more under a turn like that, thus increasing the patch.
Again, if it's working, cool...leave it.
I remember whenever I changed anything on my car, I wasted at least a run or two learning the car again....
I got to the point where it was "run it as it stands" and just push what I had to learn how to drive that car on that day....with those tires...
Not much help, sorry
Posted by: Randal Apr 27 2014, 09:52 AM
If the temps are tracking and the car is hooking up then you've developed a great set up. It sure looks good in the pictures.
Did you tie the cage to the shock towers / torsion bar mounts?
No splitter / spoiler? I only mention this as they really do work well together.
Here is a picture of mine.
That was when I was running a square setup like I believe you are now.
Posted by: Woody Apr 27 2014, 10:10 AM
Working on putting a cage together now as well as some aero. Car will be getting a splitter and a wing or aggressive spoiler. I'm doing a bunch of stuff to the car this year. I am also in the process of building a high compression 2.4 /4. The car has very minimal understeer which transitions to mild oversteer. Again I am still working with this setup and figuring it out but I think I'm on the right track. I still have a long way to go to get where I want it to be.
Posted by: Randal Apr 27 2014, 10:19 AM
Working on putting a cage together now as well as some aero. Car will be getting a splitter and a wing or aggressive spoiler. I'm doing a bunch of stuff to the car this year. I am also in the process of building a high compression 2.4 /4. The car has very minimal understeer which transitions to mild oversteer. Again I am still working with this setup and figuring it out but I think I'm on the right track. I still have a long way to go to get where I want it to be.
You'll like the big 4. Nothing like having 175rwhp/170rwftlbs to play with, but it's an entirely new game.
And FYI I've very seldom been beat by a 6, just a couple of times on bad tires, in process of trying a new set up/ sorting out a major issue or the biggest issue (always) coming out cold after a year off.
And when you get in front of well driven GT3 or GT2 it will make your day.
I think if we compared development (my picture above) would be where you are now, i.e., no cage tie in / aggressive splitter or spoiler, etc. I thought it was interesting.
Posted by: Woody Apr 27 2014, 11:44 AM
I Installed my 5 gallon cell yesterday. Hopefully will be getting my bilstein struts this week so I can raise the spindles and install them next weekend.
Posted by: Randal Apr 27 2014, 12:15 PM
I Installed my 5 gallon cell yesterday. Hopefully will be getting my bilstein struts this week so I can raise the spindles and install them next weekend.
Great move or moves.
One additional thing - pretty much magic, but expensive. Raising the shock towers, as part of an overall stiffing exercise, really does produce results.
That was going to be the next thing on 222.
Posted by: Woody Apr 27 2014, 01:26 PM
Raising the shock towers? Front and rear? I've been looking at Chris's kits. May have to consider them a little harder.
Posted by: Woody Apr 27 2014, 02:42 PM
Here's the fuel tank. Don't know why it came with AN 10 fittings but I made them work. Need to come up with a way to secure the vent better. The supply is a repurposed early 996 dipstick tube. 
Posted by: Woody Apr 27 2014, 02:43 PM
Posted by: jjackson Apr 28 2014, 01:23 PM
Woody-
Now that you have run the car several times- Are you faster than you were on the A 6s ?
J Jackson
Posted by: Woody Apr 28 2014, 02:10 PM
I believe the car is half a second quicker than it was on fresh A6s. Once I get everything dialed in it may be a full second. I've only had one dry event and not everyone I normally base my times off of showed up. The car feels much faster because I haven't found the limit in the transitions. The turn in is "delayed" compared to the A6s but I believe that's because of the switch to a bias ply. I wouldn't call it understeer, just delayed a very small amount. The setup with the A6s was spot on. It will take me more than one good dry event to feel as confident in this new setup. To answer your question though, yes I believe they are faster and I like the feel.
Posted by: jjackson Apr 28 2014, 02:54 PM
I believe the car is half a second quicker than it was on fresh A6s. Once I get everything dialed in it may be a full second. I've only had one dry event and not everyone I normally base my times off of showed up. The car feels much faster because I haven't found the limit in the transitions. The turn in is "delayed" compared to the A6s but I believe that's because of the switch to a bias ply. I wouldn't call it understeer, just delayed a very small amount. The setup with the A6s was spot on. It will take me more than one good dry event to feel as confident in this new setup. To answer your question though, yes I believe they are faster and I like the feel.
Comparable times in a bargain priced tire is awesome.
I definitely like the precision of the A 6 radial compared to the bias-ply-
It does take some getting used to.
Good Luck !! J
Posted by: Woody Apr 28 2014, 03:23 PM
Thank you. I will keep y'all posted.
Posted by: Trekkor Apr 29 2014, 11:53 PM
Love the pictures.
Fantastic!!
Posted by: R8CERX Apr 30 2014, 04:51 AM
Love the pictures.
Fantastic!!
Nice car and set up....
Posted by: Woody May 18 2014, 05:16 PM
Since my last event I installed my 5 gallon cell on the trunk floor, got rid of the rear brake pressure limiting valve and installed a T, raised the front spindles 19mm and lowered the rear of the car an inch. Re-corner balanced and aligned it with one degree of camber all around. Toe out front, toe in rear. Car weights in at 1826 pounds with a gallon of fuel. Here are my current thoughts on the tires. The vague feeling is still there but I think that's the tradeoff for going bias ply. The straight line grip such as accelerating and braking are very good. Trailbraking is predictable as well. Mid corner grip is good. Corner exit or maintenance throttle through the turn sucks as the inside tire will just spin. I originally attributed this to my lack of a limited slip differential and also that the tires were taller than my A6s which raised the ride height of the car. I honestly believe it may also have something to do with the tire construction. One of my other XP buddies was running a set on his miata and he was experiencing the exact same thing, no drive out of the corners. He removed his rear bar and it didn't change anything. He is running a torque biasing diff. So maybe it is inherent in the design. I don't know. Here's a couple videos from today. This course was very tight and very frustrating for everyone. It didn't flow at all. Little tricky at the finish.
http://youtu.be/7HaoTVYliEo
http://youtu.be/lFsUJv2iimU
Posted by: Woody May 19 2014, 08:23 AM
I'm thinking I may need to go with a bigger front swaybar. I am currently running a 22mm weltmeister and its maxed out. I think I may have to look into Chris's setups at Tangerine. What do ya'll think?
Posted by: Randal May 19 2014, 08:38 AM
Since my last event I installed my 5 gallon cell on the trunk floor, got rid of the rear brake pressure limiting valve and installed a T, raised the front spindles 19mm and lowered the rear of the car an inch. Re-corner balanced and aligned it with one degree of camber all around. Toe out front, toe in rear. Car weights in at 1826 pounds with a gallon of fuel. Here are my current thoughts on the tires. The vague feeling is still there but I think that's the tradeoff for going bias ply. The straight line grip such as accelerating and braking are very good. Trailbraking is predictable as well. Mid corner grip is good. Corner exit or maintenance throttle through the turn sucks as the inside tire will just spin. I originally attributed this to my lack of a limited slip differential and also that the tires were taller than my A6s which raised the ride height of the car. I honestly believe it may also have something to do with the tire construction. One of my other XP buddies was running a set on his miata and he was experiencing the exact same thing, no drive out of the corners. He removed his rear bar and it didn't change anything. He is running a torque biasing diff. So maybe it is inherent in the design. I don't know. Here's a couple videos from today. This course was very tight and very frustrating for everyone. It didn't flow at all. Little tricky at the finish.
http://youtu.be/7HaoTVYliEo
http://youtu.be/lFsUJv2iimU
Nice hand work on the first run.
Suggestion: Take your rear view mirror off when you autox. It's right in your line of sight when looking for upcoming right turns.
Your going to love the big motor. And get a TBD, your going to need it.
Posted by: Woody May 19 2014, 10:07 AM
Thanks buddy. I know the diff is lacking. These tires make it very apparent. I need to see how soon I can fit it into the budget. I still need to figure out and buy the oiling system for the new engine. I would like to dry sump it.
Posted by: Randal May 19 2014, 10:19 AM
Thanks buddy. I know the diff is lacking. These tires make it very apparent. I need to see how soon I can fit it into the budget. I still need to figure out and buy the oiling system for the new engine. I would like to dry sump it.
Bill Pickering brought up this one:
http://www.wavetrac.net/
I think about 50% of what a Guard unit costs.
The engineering is also very interesting.
Bill bought one and our noted local transmission expert said it was as nice a unit as he has ever seen. We'll see when we run it behind that 3.2 that Bill has in the 914.
Posted by: Seabird May 19 2014, 11:12 AM
Bill Pickering brought up this one:
http://www.wavetrac.net/
I think about 50% of what a Guard unit costs.
The engineering is also very interesting.
Bill bought one and our noted local transmission expert said it was as nice a unit as he has ever seen. We'll see when we run it behind that 3.2 that Bill has in the 914.
Wow 1400$ that is almost at striking distance. Going to keep these guys in mind.
Miguel
Posted by: Woody May 19 2014, 11:30 AM
I have been looking at the Wavetracs and was thinking I would go with that over the Guard because it is still supposed to work with an unloaded tire. I know it would transform the car and most likely fix my corner exit problem. What was odd to me was my Miata buddy running the same tires with a TBD had the same exact problem. 
Posted by: Randal May 19 2014, 12:08 PM
I have been looking at the Wavetracs and was thinking I would go with that over the Guard because it is still supposed to work with an unloaded tire. I know it would transform the car and most likely fix my corner exit problem. What was odd to me was my Miata buddy running the same tires with a TBD had the same exact problem.
I had a Guard TBD in my 914 and it simply worked. With the big motor it was just what was necessary to get everything working together. Magic really!
Have to thank JP as he is the first guy to use one and tell us how well it worked.
When I build a now 901 box it's going to have the Wavetrac.
Posted by: blackmoon May 21 2014, 04:44 PM
Well we had great weather yesterday and I got 5 good runs in. On a 35 second course the car is at least a half second faster than it ever was on the A6s, maybe a full second. The need for a TB diff is exagerated with this setup so I ended up going full stiff on the front bar. It helped but just masked the problem. Turn in was great, Haven't found the limit while in the slaloms and it seems very predictable mid corner. It was about 85 degrees ambient and I saw 110 on the tires which was close to what the other guys were seeing.
My two best runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exodqAGWBXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1o1TbTK-dU
Nice directional stripper for guidance
Posted by: J P Stein May 24 2014, 06:24 PM
Brit sent a new pic of his car.....also a vid. At his last AX he beat a DP Miata by nearly 3 sec.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzgyqyPqOA&feature=youtu.be
Runs like this will put him in the hunt at The Nats. in XP. He'll be at Crows Landing for a preview.
The car looks fast just settin' there.
Posted by: Randal May 24 2014, 09:47 PM
Brit sent a new pic of his car.....also a vid. At his last AX he beat a DP Miata by nearly 3 sec.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzgyqyPqOA&feature=youtu.be
Runs like this will put him in the hunt at The Nats. in XP. He'll be at Crows Landing for a preview.
The car looks fast just settin' there.
Looking forward to watching Britain go against the XP Champs. His car at Medford was crazy fast, so thinking he is going to do very well.
Posted by: brant May 24 2014, 09:52 PM
Nice paint!
Posted by: koozy May 24 2014, 09:54 PM
That looks ridiculously fast and equally as fun
Posted by: Woody May 26 2014, 04:28 PM
Point taken JP. While my car is not a contender in XP yet, I am building it into one. I wanted to start the year in XP so at least I can start gathering some year end points. Your old car, Britain's car is quite the beast.
Posted by: J P Stein May 26 2014, 06:46 PM
Point taken JP. While my car is not a contender in XP yet, I am building it into one. I wanted to start the year in XP so at least I can start gathering some year end points. Your old car, Britain's car is quite the beast.
There are 3 DP Miatas running in PNW SCCA.
All of then go to the Nats regular like. All have trophied there. All are about 2 seconds behind the top XP guy (Zust), depending on the day but that is a good round number. They used to beat my old car by 1-2 seconds.
Brit & Alan reversed that nicely. Those 2 guys each make at least twice the money I did AND picked up some sponsership......there's a clue there
.Goodyear no longer makes those tires. They are going with AVONs @ $450 a pop.
Good luck, that is a tough road to hoe.
Posted by: nolift914 Jun 9 2014, 02:21 PM
Any new updates or conclusions, I am getting ready to get a new set of tires for my xp 914.
Posted by: Woody Jun 10 2014, 01:02 PM
Any new updates or conclusions, I am getting ready to get a new set of tires for my xp 914.
I haven't run this month yet. Look at post #65, that was my most recent event and my current thoughts on the tires. If you are running a clutch type LSD I think they would be perfect. In the next month or so I am going to be getting a Wavetrack TBD and will let y'all know what I think. I think that may solve my problems. I am getting Lasik on thursday so money is going to be a little bit tight for the next few weeks.
Posted by: Woody Jun 22 2014, 06:52 PM
I raised the tire pressures one pound to 19 cold and the car felt much better. I didn't seem to lose drive on exit like before. We got temporarily kicked off our main lot and had to use a smaller one. This lot felt much grippier so that may have had something to do with it.
SASCA #6: http://youtu.be/u-cwLXQKpSE
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