Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ The Paddock _ 222
Posted by: Randal Nov 21 2014, 10:50 PM
Going to put her back together. The D Sport Racer will just have to happen later.
Looking for all good ideas on weight savings.
Posted by: ConeDodger Nov 22 2014, 12:53 AM
Posted by: RobW Nov 22 2014, 08:54 AM
Well that's good news! Let me know if you need a hand...
Posted by: Woody Nov 22 2014, 10:50 AM
Giggity! ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 22 2014, 12:46 PM
Where are you at right now? I haven't had a good look at 222 in a while ...
Posted by: Mueller Nov 22 2014, 01:32 PM
Gun drilled axles?
Ceramic rotors?
What size rotors do you have now?
Do you really need rotors that big?)
Drilling holes to lighten bolts...replacing nuts with aluminum nuts in certain places where there is mostly a shear force?
Posted by: Borderline Nov 22 2014, 01:34 PM
Good decision!!! I've got some Koni rears in the shop that I've been keeping around....just in case. Not sure about springs though.
As for wt reduction: You don't need an oil cooler for AX or hillclimb. Your front air dam and splitter seemed pretty heavy to me. Are you still running steel doors? Mikey found some F/G door skins that are very light and not too expensive. That's all I can think of for now. 
Posted by: Randal Nov 22 2014, 01:54 PM
Good decision!!! I've got some Koni rears in the shop that I've been keeping around....just in case. Not sure about springs though.
As for wt reduction: You don't need an oil cooler for AX or hillclimb. Your front air dam and splitter seemed pretty heavy to me. Are you still running steel doors? Mikey found some F/G door skins that are very light and not too expensive. That's all I can think of for now.
Right on the front cooler. That Mazda cooler I had was big and with -10lines, fittings and oil was a lot of weight. Always thought I'd be doing a bunch of track work.
Also bi-passing the thermostat (forward and return lines( will be easy. Just need to find a U fitting with male connections. Here is a picture of the current setup.
So which bumper did you use on the top Bill? Need to find one of those then do some sheet metal below and then hang a splitter off the bottom.
My doors are like 13lbs as they sit now/
Losing the Targa, behind the driver, would save some serious weight. Ummm.
Posted by: Randal Nov 22 2014, 01:57 PM
Where are you at right now? I haven't had a good look at 222 in a while ...
As she stands now.
Posted by: Randal Nov 22 2014, 02:00 PM
Gun drilled axles?
Ceramic rotors?
What size rotors do you have now?
Do you really need rotors that big?)
Drilling holes to lighten bolts...replacing nuts with aluminum nuts in certain places where there is mostly a shear force?
Where do you get ceramic rotors? Also wondering how much they cost.
There are 911 rotors and calipers on the front. Back rotors and calipers are stock.
How much weight does one save drilling the existing rotors?
Could switch over to lighter calipers on the front.....
Posted by: Randal Nov 22 2014, 02:09 PM
Going to put her back together. The D Sport Racer will just have to happen later.
Looking for all good ideas on weight savings.
I had the three qt. Accusump on the car that I sold. Want to put one back, but the question is just how big a unit does a Type 4 really need? Accusump has 1/2 or 3 qt. units.
The protection I'm looking for is corner surge, but just how much additional oil does one really need to protect the bearings?
Posted by: gryphon68 Nov 22 2014, 06:09 PM
Aftermarket Carbon Ceramic Brakes shown at SEMA this year:
http://www.fusionbrakes.com/
Posted by: Krieger Nov 22 2014, 07:33 PM
Jenny Craig 
Posted by: Krieger Nov 22 2014, 07:36 PM
I have seen rear rotors lightened by cutting/drilling the horizontal hub section. Don't know how safe. I think it was the blue smirf/Blholder
Posted by: Randal Nov 22 2014, 07:44 PM
I have seen rear rotors lightened by cutting/drilling the horizontal hub section. Don't know how safe. I think it was the blue smirf/Blholder
I know Bill Charron also did some nice machining on his to drop weight. Or maybe he just drilled some big holes..
Those ceremic disks are a bit pricey at $11,000 a set.
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Nov 22 2014, 08:29 PM
... which reminds me of the old saying... "How fast can you build this car to go?" "I dunno, how much do you want to spend?"
I always thought that was a really good looking car Randal. Would love to see it in person someday.
I would think your best bang for the buck would be to spend your money on reducing sprung weight. You mentioned lighter (aluminum) calipers, and drilling the rotors. For an AX car, I bet that would be the best place to start.
Looking at the rest of the car, there isn't much that you already haven't modified, so not many other places where you could save weight. I would say the next step would require major fabrication. Replacing the front and rear bulkheads with a tubed setup (i.e. between the front shocktowers and the between the rear shocktowers.) I think that's what Paul (URY914) did and his car most definitely the lightest 914 I know of. Beyond that, you'd probably have to get Paul to make you some one piece fiberglass panels from his molds! Those things are amazing, and replace both the left and right sides of the car in one long piece. Maybe he'll post some pics.
Posted by: Krieger Nov 22 2014, 08:40 PM
What does she weigh now?
Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Nov 23 2014, 07:19 AM
What does she weigh now?
It looks really light to me. I'm guessing 1725lbs.
Posted by: Randal Nov 23 2014, 10:07 AM
What does she weigh now?
In her previous configuration she was 1680#.
Without the front oil cooler and lines (filled with oil) probably save 30#.
A smaller Accusump will save another 10#.
A new bumper and sheet metal set up for the front will save 10-15#
Drilling the rotors will save ?
Wilwood calipers will save ?
Targa top would be 20# at least.
I'm going to add on a electric steering assist unit which is +10#
Also a steering-quickner which is a couple of lbs.
If I can figure out a good stock shifter together with Foley's shift rod and transmission adapter guessing another 10#
Thinking if I could lose a net of 70# that would be good.
About 9lbs per rear wheel hp...
Posted by: J P Stein Nov 23 2014, 01:24 PM
Just my opinion.
You've gone far enough with the car as built. Me thinks you'd have to lose a LARGE chunk of weight.....150-200lbs or so.....to get maybe a half second improvement in your times.
I don't think that will be enough.
There are options...but you prolly don't want to hear them so I won't waste both of our time.
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 23 2014, 01:48 PM
I still see a lot of original sheet metal that could be gutted from the car.
Do you have any restrictions due to rules? Are there certain parts of the car that need to stay in their original form?
Posted by: Randal Nov 23 2014, 07:45 PM
Just my opinion.
You've gone far enough with the car as built. Me thinks you'd have to lose a LARGE chunk of weight.....150-200lbs or so.....to get maybe a half second improvement in your times.
I don't think that will be enough.
There are options...but you prolly don't want to hear them so I won't waste both of our time.
Options are buying a D Sport Racer, but that will be next. I'm not going to put a Subi in, just get the car running and improve my driving.
If I get within a couple of seconds of the fast XP cars I win! I never really finished getting the handling sorted, but with a few minor improvement, the least of which are driver input, should do OK.
Posted by: Randal Nov 23 2014, 08:11 PM
I still see a lot of original sheet metal that could be gutted from the car.
Do you have any restrictions due to rules? Are there certain parts of the car that need to stay in their original form?
In SCCA I run XP or EMod. With XP I have to be at 1721# according to their rules. At that weight you have to compete with cars like Britain Smith's with 400 rear wheel HP.
In EMod the same challenge exists, but the competition is running 1500# cars with huge HP.
There might be other classes where I could compete, but need to do more research.
In hill climbs I run SPU (Super Production under 3.0 liters). This is actually a fair class and so far have been able to hold my own, setting hill records and running in the top 5 or better depending upon which 700HP race car shows up.
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 24 2014, 10:10 AM
You can always add weight for those races where you have a minimum requirement to meet. Lead is your friend.
Plus, that way you can put the weight where you want it, as low as possible on the car.
Two areas that immediately stand out to me are the front firewall between the trunk and the tank and the rear firewall between the engine and trunk.
Both of those could be cut out and replaced with a tubular crossbeam at the top.
Posted by: Randal Nov 24 2014, 11:06 AM
You can always add weight for those races where you have a minimum requirement to meet. Lead is your friend.
Plus, that way you can put the weight where you want it, as low as possible on the car.
Two areas that immediately stand out to me are the front firewall between the trunk and the tank and the rear firewall between the engine and trunk.
Both of those could be cut out and replaced with a tubular crossbeam at the top.
Good idea!
Posted by: Chris Pincetich Nov 24 2014, 02:15 PM
Lithium Ion and other polymer batteries have become options for race cars. I recall someone in PCA GGR selling or distributing them...less that 10lbs each. 5lbs lighter that the P680 or whatever the old-standard "light" battery was.
Happy to see 222 will stick around 
Posted by: ablesnead Nov 24 2014, 07:45 PM
Aluminum hats thinner rotor walls..weight that multiplies
Posted by: Krieger Nov 25 2014, 12:58 PM
Two areas that immediately stand out to me are the front firewall between the trunk and the tank and the rear firewall between the engine and trunk.
Both of those could be cut out and replaced with a tubular crossbeam at the top.
In the front trunk you could leave the top boxed section of the fire wall and cut out what is below it. I have seen others do this.
Posted by: McMark Nov 26 2014, 09:47 PM
Did you get my message about the hoods? Did you still wanna talk about 'BIG' ideas?
Posted by: Randal Nov 26 2014, 11:05 PM
Did you get my message about the hoods? Did you still wanna talk about 'BIG' ideas?
Thought I messaged you back. I'll send you a PM now.
Message sent, did you get it?
Posted by: returf Nov 26 2014, 11:20 PM
Good stuff Randal, I'm following what you're up to. Sorry I can't offer much help from here but everything I seem to do just adds weight to the darned car!!!
Posted by: RobW Nov 27 2014, 07:45 AM
Cut the chassis off, seam weld it, put hinges on one end to work on it. Indy tube frame underneath.
Posted by: Randal Nov 27 2014, 12:56 PM
Good stuff Randal, I'm following what you're up to. Sorry I can't offer much help from here but everything I seem to do just adds weight to the darned car!!!
Ha, but you have some serious power. And that is an understatement.
Posted by: returf Nov 28 2014, 03:26 AM
Hey Randal, I see you're thinking along the lines of epas, just to let you know, Toyota's small cars ( corollas and Yaris they call them here) have epas as well and may be a smaller unit to fit. And trust me, all that power is no good if you 're not quite sure which way it's going to thrust you.
Mike
Posted by: Randal Nov 28 2014, 03:53 PM
Hey Randal, I see you're thinking along the lines of epas, just to let you know, Toyota's small cars ( corollas and Yaris they call them here) have epas as well and may be a smaller unit to fit. And trust me, all that power is no good if you 're not quite sure which way it's going to thrust you.
Mike
This is the unit I'm looking at: http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ac498700&Store_Code=PC&search=electric+power+steering&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=
There are others, as you pointed out, you can pick up cheaper, but the reason I like this one is that it can be installed in the same space as the down rod between the two steering U joints. Together with a quickner this would add a big element of car control, especially through slalom courses where you have to move fast, but super smooth.
Posted by: returf Nov 28 2014, 11:18 PM
That is a really nice and compact unit Randal. Does the computer allow you to increase or decrease the amount of assistance
Posted by: Randal Nov 29 2014, 10:50 AM
That is a really nice and compact unit Randal. Does the computer allow you to increase or decrease the amount of assistance
It does. I'm going to talk with the installers down in LA. They probably will have some good ideas on how to mount it to the firewall. Kind of a weird spot, i.e., no straight angles, but should be able to fabricate something that works correctly.
We need some of that New Zealand fabrication talent over here!
Slalom courses will never be the same after the unit is installed...
Did you watch this D Sports racer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwuxbHF4j8wr
Now that is the way I want to go through.
Posted by: brant Nov 29 2014, 10:56 AM
Kiss. The power severing is going to add weight. I'm surprised the car isn't lighter with that much fiberglass. Got to be another 100 lbs in there for the taking. It's in the details.
Posted by: Randal Nov 29 2014, 11:12 AM
Kiss. The power severing is going to add weight. I'm surprised the car isn't lighter with that much fiberglass. Got to be another 100 lbs in there for the taking. It's in the details.
Changing my objective now. Want to get below 1600#, but retaining the big cage for hillclimbs.
Posted by: brant Nov 29 2014, 11:38 AM
1600 should be very doable.
Beck's -6 was at one time rumored to be 1650. Take 150lbs off of that number for the weight of a -6 motor and voila.
I'm metal with intact trunk floors and nothing cut away. I'm 1835 wet and roughly believe I could shed 150 for the -6 and another 100 lbs easily in the metal panels/doors/fenders.
Get rid of the extras (like power steering)
Posted by: Randal Nov 29 2014, 12:27 PM
1600 should be very doable.
Beck's -6 was at one time rumored to be 1650. Take 150lbs off of that number for the weight of a -6 motor and voila.
I'm metal with intact trunk floors and nothing cut away. I'm 1835 wet and roughly believe I could shed 150 for the -6 and another 100 lbs easily in the metal panels/doors/fenders.
Get rid of the extras (like power steering)
Brandt - I believe you're running mostly track events and that is very different to autoxing or short Enduro events, like Medford. In these event you need short ratio steering, otherwise your spending all day just trying to get around a 90 degree (or more) corner, or making a right to left or left to right transition as in the case of a long slalom.
When you put in a steering quickner, unfortunately the steering gets really hard and it's difficult to muscle you way through a slalom course smoothly. Not being smooth cost you time; hence my quest to find an electric steering assist unit that doesn't weight much.
If I was just running hill climbs power assisted steering wouldn't be needed. But Medford, i.e., like 60 corners, many 90 degrees or tighter, in 4 minutes is tough.
Posted by: J P Stein Nov 30 2014, 09:51 AM
I have an EPAS system for the Mustang on the way......not cheep but my hands & wrists will love me for it.
Posted by: Randal Nov 30 2014, 03:21 PM
I have an EPAS system for the Mustang on the way......not cheep but my hands & wrists will love me for it.
I just want to hear that beauty! Video?
Posted by: J P Stein Dec 1 2014, 08:08 AM
A vid ain't gonna happen any time soon. I haven't got the kit (Coming out of FLA) yet and I'm hiring the install out.
I gave up video years ago....too much of a PITA......I suppose getting a vid out is easier these days...all my old stuff is in a closet somewhere.
While standing at the rear of the car, it sounds cool. Sitting in the cockpit, it sounds like the hounds from hell are loose under the bonnet.
Posted by: Trekkor Dec 3 2014, 03:14 AM
This relaunch of 222 is the best news I've heard in while.
Let's race 914's together next year!
Posted by: Randal Dec 3 2014, 10:22 AM
A vid ain't gonna happen any time soon. I haven't got the kit (Coming out of FLA) yet and I'm hiring the install out.
I gave up video years ago....too much of a PITA......I suppose getting a vid out is easier these days...all my old stuff is in a closet somewhere.
While standing at the rear of the car, it sounds cool. Sitting in the cockpit, it sounds like the hounds from hell are loose under the bonnet.
A video on an iphone takes about 2 seconds, maybe two clicks is all. Don't they have iphones up there in God's Country?
Posted by: J P Stein Dec 3 2014, 01:02 PM
A video on an iphone takes about 2 seconds, maybe two clicks is all. Don't they have iphones up there in God's Country?
Sure, they got enough of them to tie up every fool in the country.
My cell is talk & text only.....I mostly ignore texts & don't send any.
Ok, I'm a luddite, so shoot me, but you better not miss. I do embrace certain technologies.
Posted by: Randal Dec 6 2014, 04:54 PM
A video on an iphone takes about 2 seconds, maybe two clicks is all. Don't they have iphones up there in God's Country?
Sure, they got enough of them to tie up every fool in the country.
My cell is talk & text only.....I mostly ignore texts & don't send any.
Ok, I'm a luddite, so shoot me, but you better not miss. I do embrace certain technologies.
Merry Christmas JP and speaking of Christmas, here is an early Christmas present to myself.
Re-plumbed the oil lines removing the Mocal thermostat that ran to the front oil cooler.
Ha, just saved 30lbs (no front cooler/lines/oil) and did so at no dollars. So a pretty good weight reduction for the buck, hey? For the stuff I run I don't really need the front cooler and THANKS to Bill for the suggestion.
Now have to buy an Accusump and they are pricy.
Here is an after picture:
Here is before:
Posted by: J P Stein Dec 8 2014, 03:41 PM
Nice.
Here's mine.
Posted by: john914somers Dec 8 2014, 07:07 PM
Hey Randal,
Do you still have rocker panels? IDK maybe that's stupid?... but it doesn't seem like they would help you in AX. Perhaps that is a good super cheap weight savings??? P.S. your front end came out beautiful! I'll have to send you pics!
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 13 2014, 11:08 AM
Randal, I dropped off the 222 rear deck lid Wednesday at Original Customs. Go get her!
Posted by: Randal Dec 13 2014, 11:28 AM
Randal, I dropped off the 222 rear deck lid Wednesday at Original Customs. Go get her!
Thanks Rob.
Appreciate your dropping the lid off.
Posted by: Joe Sharp Dec 24 2014, 03:19 PM
Hey Randall, my car weighs in at 1640 with a full load of fuel. I used braces between the shock towers.
Posted by: Randal Dec 25 2014, 10:48 AM
Hey Randall, my car weighs in at 1640 with a full load of fuel. I used braces between the shock towers.
How much fuel? Guessing you must be under 1600# dry.
I think I'll be able to get about 1580# without a huge amount of work. There is another 20# there if I lose the Targa bar.
100# from where I am is like picking up 10hp.
Posted by: grantsfo Dec 26 2014, 10:53 PM
So happy to see you back in the game! Continued focus on rotating weight if you are planning on Hillclimbs again. An alumnum hat rotor is worthwhile in my opinion. I designed and had machine shop make alumnum hats that work with brembo floating rotors on my Z. It wasn't all that expensive. $1500. Way cheaper than the carbon ceramics that are on the cayman now! I'm actually thinking of making my own pccb replacements for cayman. These weigh couple lbs. Crazy lightweight and strong as I used 7075 aircraft alloy.
And how about a sequential. Huge time for hillclimb with a close ratio like this one.
http://youtu.be/_FD6-UX3WN0
Posted by: Randal Dec 27 2014, 12:16 PM
So happy to see you back in the game! Continued focus on rotating weight if you are planning on Hillclimbs again. An alumnum hat rotor is worthwhile in my opinion. I designed and had machine shop make alumnum hats that work with brembo floating rotors on my Z. It wasn't all that expensive. $1500. Way cheaper than the carbon ceramics that are on the cayman now! I'm actually thinking of making my own pccb replacements for cayman. These weigh couple lbs. Crazy lightweight and strong as I used 7075 aircraft alloy.
And how about a sequential. Huge time for hillclimb with a close ratio like this one.
http://youtu.be/_FD6-UX3WN0
Like to see a picture of that rotor when it's installed. So is that the inside hub or whatever it's called bit for a floating rotor?
Beautiful piece of work.
Posted by: Joe Sharp Jan 8 2015, 12:15 AM
Hey Randall, my car weighs in at 1640 with a full load of fuel. I used braces between the shock towers.
How much fuel? Guessing you must be under 1600# dry.
I think I'll be able to get about 1580# without a huge amount of work. There is another 20# there if I lose the Targa bar.
100# from where I am is like picking up 10hp.
2.5 Gallons. I'm going to have to start a thread here as I haven't been on this forum much and I can see that was a mistake.
Posted by: Randal Jan 31 2015, 06:46 PM
A video on an iphone takes about 2 seconds, maybe two clicks is all. Don't they have iphones up there in God's Country?
Sure, they got enough of them to tie up every fool in the country.
My cell is talk & text only.....I mostly ignore texts & don't send any.
Ok, I'm a luddite, so shoot me, but you better not miss. I do embrace certain technologies.
Merry Christmas JP and speaking of Christmas, here is an early Christmas present to myself.
Re-plumbed the oil lines removing the Mocal thermostat that ran to the front oil cooler.
Ha, just saved 30lbs (no front cooler/lines/oil) and did so at no dollars. So a pretty good weight reduction for the buck, hey? For the stuff I run I don't really need the front cooler and THANKS to Bill for the suggestion.
Now have to buy an Accusump and they are pricy.
Here is an after picture:
Here is before:
Now I've plumbed the new Accusump, putting it into the drivers compartment where I can turn it off and on, so using the manual valve. Also used the AeroQuip hose and push on fittings. I will be adding clamps, although I probably don't need them. Also cut a 4 x 4 in square out of an old IMSA slick, cut a 2" hole in the middle and will rivet that to keep the hose centered in the hole. KISS as JP would say.
And from the back side.
Now ready to fill the Accusump, put oil back into the car, pre-oil the bearings and start her up.
Posted by: Mueller Feb 1 2015, 01:12 PM
Supposedly Ford (or Holman-Moody?) acid dipped a few Trans-Am series Mustang bodys in white in acid to make the chassis lighter...I know, not too practical with your car..but something to get you thinking about!
Posted by: returf Feb 3 2015, 01:34 AM
So how'd it run Randal. When do you get to use it again?. I just finished installing a brake upgrade that saved 9lbs per front wheel over the previous setup. 12.2" AP Racing rotors, lightweight Alloy hats and Wilwood forged 4 piston superlites. When you think about trying to say, catch 18lbs of something thrown at you really fast then you start to see the benefits of reducing as much weight as possible (unsprung too)
Posted by: Randal Feb 5 2015, 10:11 AM
So how'd it run Randal. When do you get to use it again?. I just finished installing a brake upgrade that saved 9lbs per front wheel over the previous setup. 12.2" AP Racing rotors, lightweight Alloy hats and Wilwood forged 4 piston superlites. When you think about trying to say, catch 18lbs of something thrown at you really fast then you start to see the benefits of reducing as much weight as possible (unsprung too)
Great point about weight, not sure I want to try and catch a 16#, let alone 18# shotput!
Not running yet, but just need to put the transmission back in and the starter, wire and oil her up and should be ready.
Posted by: Randal Feb 21 2015, 01:28 PM
So how'd it run Randal. When do you get to use it again?. I just finished installing a brake upgrade that saved 9lbs per front wheel over the previous setup. 12.2" AP Racing rotors, lightweight Alloy hats and Wilwood forged 4 piston superlites. When you think about trying to say, catch 18lbs of something thrown at you really fast then you start to see the benefits of reducing as much weight as possible (unsprung too)
Great point about weight, not sure I want to try and catch a 16#, let alone 18# shotput!
Not running yet, but just need to put the transmission back in and the starter, wire and oil her up and should be ready.
Got the Accusump in and oiled up, transmission and starter on and fired her up. Took a little while, but she finally started. I was using year old race fuel, which was suspect.
222 is now off with a new owner. Packed her up today.
Great car, so much fun over the 10 years I owned her.
Posted by: J P Stein Feb 21 2015, 09:09 PM
Got the Accusump in and oiled up, transmission and starter on and fired her up. Took a little while, but she finally started. I was using year old race fuel, which was suspect.
222 is now off with a new owner. Packed her up today.
Great car, so much fun over the 10 years I owned her.
So, now whut?
I got 12-13 years out of my 914 box. Went over a year without a toy car......bad idea.
Posted by: Randal Feb 22 2015, 06:42 PM
Got the Accusump in and oiled up, transmission and starter on and fired her up. Took a little while, but she finally started. I was using year old race fuel, which was suspect.
222 is now off with a new owner. Packed her up today.
Great car, so much fun over the 10 years I owned her.
So, now whut?
I got 12-13 years out of my 914 box. Went over a year without a toy car......bad idea.
DSR
Found a great one up North, but just a bit in front of my budget.
Posted by: brant Feb 22 2015, 06:49 PM
Who bought the chassis
Posted by: Randal Feb 22 2015, 11:23 PM
Who bought the chassis
I ended up selling the engine and chassis together. Still some assembly required, but I bought back most of what I sold off the car, and with a couple of days the car will be complete again.
You will see the car running PCA GGR events in the bay area.
Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2015, 10:17 PM
It looks like she went to a good home, he's a good driver and 222 seems to fit his style ...
Posted by: Randal Feb 28 2015, 10:49 AM
It looks like she went to a good home, he's a good driver and 222 seems to fit his style ...
Right, Andrew is really competitive and does have substantial skills behind the wheel. Very precise driver, which I learned when taking a shotgun run with him years ago.
The next stage of the car will be more focused on autox, so weight reductions and a few other interesting things. The car at 1550# or less, with a few other adaptions will continue to be very competitive.
Although it's competitive as is to tell the truth.
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 1 2015, 09:46 AM
Byholder?
Posted by: Randal Mar 1 2015, 10:37 AM
Byholder?
yes
Posted by: Chris Pincetich Mar 1 2015, 10:43 AM
Byholder?
yes
Awesome
He should be able to give Mike K a good challenge in 222! Big 4 vs. 6! I need to get back out there, even if it is just to wear down my street tires and watch the big boys battle. It always a fun, active "car show"
Posted by: SirAndy Mar 1 2015, 04:16 PM
http://www.pca-ggr.org/autocross-calendar-corrections/
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)