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Posted by: 2mAn Aug 30 2016, 02:26 PM

I made a similar thread over on Pelican and was shocked to see the responses that the 914 was a bad choice...

Heres the story.

I've had this E30 ('84 BMW) that I built a few years ago and am closing in on 4 years of ownership. Its a total blast, but being in California, and having a motor swap, Im having a headache making it street legal and then it will be hard to modify it to STAY street legal.

Ive really had the 914 itch and this last year the BMW no longer has to fulfill duties of daily driving. That means that the E30 is strictly a "fun" car and doesnt really need to be "comfortable." Its not plush anyways but it still has a back seat, carpet, stereo, etc. A "fun" car doesnt need these things because its simply to take out, drive like a maniac and tuck back in the garage. Im not going to be hauling people around, sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, going on long drives, etc. This works to the benefit of the 914 because A) its an older design so naturally will be less "comfortable," B) It doesnt need to be smog compliant which gives me more room to play around and finally, C) its a car that is more oriented to being a "fun" car than a "comfy" car.

The plan with this fun car is to slowly get more involved with autocross, HPDE and eventually take part in either BMW CCA or PCA or POC track events. I've really wanted to take a 914 and give the 911 a run for their money. I know the BMW is powerful enough to compete with them, but then I dont want this car to be a trailer queen, it needs to stay streetable and thats where the E30 is going to be a tough one as I love the package Ive built, I dont want to strip this car out, I feel like it just becomes another raced out E30.

I was shocked to find that nobody thought the 914 was a good choice, whereas Ive always felt it was the BEST choice, given budget and the above mentioned options.

So, I know you guys are biased, but I thought I would ask directly from the source and get some input. For the record, the miata is simply there because everyone thinks its so great. I will never get one. I would rather ride my Schwinn.... or just keep my E30 instead.

Hopefully this makes sense, but I may need to clarify my intentions more...

thoughts? opinions?

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 30 2016, 03:13 PM

You'll spend more time fixing it than driving it... But thats what I have my 914 for... I love fabricating and making things better... thus my 914 is my toy.

I have my Fiesta ST for a get in and drive the piss out of car... Its my mountain road monster... It also happens to be my daily driver/commuter..


Really its all about what you want out of it. If you dont want to have to do work on it then the 914 isnt the weekend car for you. If you enjoy working on things then its a great car..

For the money there are much better cars though if thats a concern..

Posted by: dslinc Aug 30 2016, 04:26 PM

I was really going to ask the same question. I'd hope more people can chime in regarding this.

I used to own a miata and sold it a year or so ago. The miata was great but I need something new.

Posted by: wndsrfr Aug 30 2016, 07:23 PM

I need a car that needs me more than I need the car.....

If that makes sense to you, get the 914.

My /6 (2.7, about 2000 pounds) eats some E30's at DE's even with a 71 year old driver. Something very satisfying about doing that with a 40 year old car...

Posted by: Cracker Aug 30 2016, 08:02 PM

Hands down get/build a 914. I stirred up a hornets nest some time ago mainly regarding this same issue. The lack of 914 presence at the track is discouraging - being such a great car. The vast majority of owners here are "normal" non-performance drivers - more show, shine, originality stuff. Fine for them but doesn't get my blood flowing.

PM me if you are interested in discussing the finer points of preparing a 914 for track duty. I spend an entire year building my car and have now run the first 5 weekend events (DE's) without a breakdown of any kind. I've owned allot of different cars, some very quick and expensive race cars - nothing quite offers me the same joy as the old 914. I hope you chose to do it - BMW's are great cars - the e30's not so much - nothing special. I grew up in the hobby with Bimmers and know them very, very well.

The amount of thoughtful planning, knowing what to concentrate on and executing to the best of your ability and budget will all allow you to have a rewarding experience. IF you do it RIGHT, you will never regret campaigning a 914!

All the best!

PS: For inspiration...here are two pics of my 914 track car - I eat GT3 cup cars for fun - really. This is my street car too.

Tony

At our last event...we were the fastest car out of 140 or so entries (including 6 cup cars); lap times not acceleration (well acceleration too)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nBg507dlcs

Posted by: carr914 Aug 30 2016, 08:12 PM

My 914



or my ChumpCar



Both GREAT at what they do!

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 31 2016, 09:25 AM

The 914 with a good 6 is a killer car. Unfortunately the days of an inexpensive conversion are over.

The Subie option is good one if you can build it, DIY.

The T-4 is........an unwilling participant.

I voted for the Miata.

Posted by: Cracker Aug 31 2016, 09:50 AM

I respect every opinion but it isn't about "logical financial investment" when it comes a 914, IMHO. Its like John said earlier, "I wanted a car that needed me more than I needed it" (or close to that)...

Just sayin': driven a bunch of Miata's on track = boring. That's just my takeaway though...I like speed (everywhere) and those other two options need not even apply.

PS: I will kindly put this out there too...if you need a poll of strangers to steer you in a direction (many of whom probably have never been on a track); stick with your Bimmer. A 914 track car should be only attempted by those who need no help making that decision. Capisce? Cheers so you are not insulted...

Tony

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Aug 31 2016, 11:25 AM)

Posted by: brant Aug 31 2016, 10:22 AM

Always read the rule book first
I don't care if you don't intend to actually race
you should still build to a set of rules, if nothing more than for resale value.

the 914 is a vintage car
the others are not
do you want to run a vintage car or a track car?

a competitive wheel to wheel 914 (4 or 6 honestly) will cost double what the other 2 options above will cost (ok, maybe the 914/6 will be triple)


a big bore -4 race car is not going to have a class to run in, and will not be competitive in any class they bump you up to in order to find you a place to run.

see rule number one: RTRB

Posted by: ndfrigi Aug 31 2016, 02:26 PM

Hey Simon,

you might want to watch this youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgvwuTgfB0

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 31 2016, 02:42 PM

Very sage advice above. Also bear in mind that you will see few or no 914s anymore in POC or PCA club racing. You may see some in autocross or DE but probably fading away quickly as well. So if you want to drive with like-minded folks having similar cars, that's another aspect to consider carefully. When I take my 914 out with POC these days, I'm typically the only 914 and one of the few aircooled cars out there... and a key reason I'm planning to join VARA in January.

Also, I remember we exchanged notes on costs earlier but to reiterate -- definitely do not assume a car will be cheaper to build or run because it's older and simpler -- if anything, these old cars have become far MORE expensive to build and to run vs. a Boxster/BSR or SpecMiata or Spec944 or whatnot. The more you modify, the deeper you dig that hole.

Posted by: 2mAn Aug 31 2016, 03:25 PM

Lots of responses and as I expected, it was mostly biased towards the 914, which is fine. I was hoping to gain personal experience from 914 owners, so thank you all for sharing your experiences.

I cant reply to everyone individually, but the overall impression Im getting is that in order to be remotely competitive I need a 6 (or a monster V8 like Tony) and theres simply no way to build something like that for less than double what I have into my own car. And the reality of that is that I think the overall package would still be less than what I currently own.

Those who seem to have dismissed the E30s, thats fine, but mine isnt a regular E30 either that you may have experienced. Im glad I got encouraging words here, but it also cements that the 914 I picture competing with will be in the back of the pack.

I still plan to get my hands on a 914, but it will have to wait until the right time, and it doesnt seem to be now, and it doesnt look like the 914 will replace the E30, but supplement it.

Posted by: brant Aug 31 2016, 03:38 PM

I personally believe a 4 cylinder 914 is more competitive (against the cars it is classed with in racing) than a 6 cylinder 914 is.

and I race a 6
but no way my 2.0 can out power a 240Z or lotus elan....

Posted by: Cracker Aug 31 2016, 03:42 PM

Good choice.

T

Posted by: Randal Aug 31 2016, 04:35 PM

A great all around car, i.e., one that works on the road or at the track, is a (used) Boxster S. They are cheap, handle and are relatively fast, even in stock condition. And if you want something really fast, throw in an LS engine.

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 31 2016, 05:52 PM

QUOTE(Randal @ Aug 31 2016, 03:35 PM)

Posted by: mepstein Aug 31 2016, 05:57 PM

The 914 is a cult car. Takes way more time, money and energy than it's worth compared to other cars, unless you love 914's. Once your hooked, your hooked but if you are lukewarm, it's not the car for you.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Aug 31 2016, 07:12 PM

Simon,
Chris just touched on something here - 99/100 times you will never be able to build something as cheap as you can buy a pre-built racecar. You may still need to "redo" some things or make modifications, but even then it'll be cheaper to buy something that's already built.
Personally what I would suggest is that you get some seat time first. You can rent cars for track days from various teams/shops. Go do a track day in an E30 if you can, or better yet, an autocross. Start small. No matter WHAT car you decide on, there is no such thing as a trouble-free or cheap track car. They take an insane amount of work just to keep on the track, let alone be competitive.
Or, you can jump all in like we did and do a race in Chumpcar or LeMons (I would highly recommend the former over LeMons). In either of these series, there are plenty of teams which will rent you a ride in their car, which is much cheaper than going out and buying one, then finding out it's not what you like. E30s are all over the place, seem to be pretty reliable and are "fairly" cheap. Several of us run 914s in Chumpcar and while fun, they need serious work to keep up with cars even 10 years newer. I drove an E30 and while I beat the living snot out of it and it was easy to drive, it was no where near as fun or gave as much feedback as the 914. However, with an E30, you'll always have a class/series to race in; Chumpcar, SCCA, NASA Spec E30, etc.

Here's a video of a Chumpcar 914 out there by you with a big honkin V8 swap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAqNehNGtE8


There's PLENTY of E30 videos out there if you search.

Posted by: Krieger Sep 1 2016, 06:31 AM

If you are not worried about class, build your 914/6 how you want to and go to DE, time trials, autocross and have a FANTASTIC time. Buying a built car could be a better choice. I know a couple of spec Boxster guys that transitioned from 914 or 911 feel the car has no soul, but like the competitive aspect.

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 1 2016, 08:51 AM

I went out & bought a Miata that has a few mods......a FM turbo set up installed is in the mix.

It goes like stink.

Posted by: stownsen914 Sep 1 2016, 11:45 AM

For what it's worth, I know of a couple 914 racecars for sale (as far as I know they are, anyway) that are great deals in my opinion. One is a full on club racer with a 3L making a lot of hp for mid $20's. The other is a bit more tame with a 2.2L race engine for mid teens. The second one might even be a decent vintage racing candidate, now that I think about it. 914 racecars can be a bargain ...

Posted by: mskala Sep 1 2016, 01:20 PM

I'm sure everybody has their own priorities when it comes to a fun
street/autocross/track type car, so this is just my opinion and my priority.

First priority: fun = not breaking down

To do that I try not to make any mod that's too extreme, and to do
maintenance and checks every winter. Motor is only 2.3L ~150HP, suspension
is not too wild and I had Chris@Tangerine add the ear re-enforcement bars.

When you buy a used race car you've just bought a pile of uncertainty. We
had a guy who bought 2 914 race cars in the last 2 years, came to several of
our autocrosses, broke every time. At least now that I've owned my car for >15
years I know as much as possible about condition.

Then, you have fun tuning the suspension a bit, get things the way you want, and
then try to improve your driving all the time.

Posted by: campbellcj Sep 1 2016, 07:05 PM

Regarding breaking shit (or shit breaking). Yes.

I found my car to be very reliable. Once I'd replaced virtually every single part in the whole thing.

Have had some fun ones. Broke a stock 901/914 shifter; the whole lever came off in my hand at some thankfully lower speed. Had a carb throttle return spring pop off at speed. Pedalbox jam up due to bent/broken bits. Droplinks, monoballs and spoilers cracked during "offs".

Posted by: Cracker Sep 1 2016, 07:11 PM

Allot of drivers don't push these old cars like you do Chris...stuff will happen when you do - and it doesn't matter what you're driving. I can speak better about durability about a year from now - hopefully.

Tony

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Sep 1 2016, 09:05 PM)

Posted by: zach914v8 Sep 2 2016, 04:26 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 30 2016, 09:02 PM)

Hands down get/build a 914. I stirred up a hornets nest some time ago mainly regarding this same issue. The lack of 914 presence at the track is discouraging - being such a great car. The vast majority of owners here are "normal" non-performance drivers - more show, shine, originality stuff. Fine for them but doesn't get my blood flowing.

PM me if you are interested in discussing the finer points of preparing a 914 for track duty. I spend an entire year building my car and have now run the first 5 weekend events (DE's) without a breakdown of any kind. I've owned allot of different cars, some very quick and expensive race cars - nothing quite offers me the same joy as the old 914. I hope you chose to do it - BMW's are great cars - the e30's not so much - nothing special. I grew up in the hobby with Bimmers and know them very, very well.

The amount of thoughtful planning, knowing what to concentrate on and executing to the best of your ability and budget will all allow you to have a rewarding experience. IF you do it RIGHT, you will never regret campaigning a 914!

All the best!

PS: For inspiration...here are two pics of my 914 track car - I eat GT3 cup cars for fun - really. This is my street car too.

Tony

At our last event...we were the fastest car out of 140 or so entries (including 6 cup cars); lap times not acceleration (well acceleration too)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nBg507dlcs

Posted by: Racer Sep 2 2016, 07:34 PM

Keeping prepping and racing the devil you know (E30). It will be cheaper and as mentioned, perhaps more competitive.

That said, 914's are a blast. They are old. Some parts are hard to find. If built properly, it won't really ever break though (4 or 6 cyl).

Just get out there and have fun. The car is secondary as you are still progressing as a driver. Then, once you are a really good driver, buy an "early" 911.

911's divided the world.. those who can drive, and those who can't

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Sep 7 2016, 03:01 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Aug 31 2016, 05:12 PM)

Posted by: Randal Sep 9 2016, 12:18 PM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Aug 31 2016, 04:52 PM)

QUOTE(Randal @ Aug 31 2016, 03:35 PM)

A great all around car, i.e., one that works on the road or at the track, is a (used) Boxster S. They are cheap, handle and are relatively fast, even in stock condition. And if you want something really fast, throw in an LS engine.

Or a proven Spec Boxster (BSR) -- people "graduate" or "retire" all the time and sell their cars for far less than a new build.

Posted by: Cracker Sep 12 2016, 05:30 PM

It appears the car has plenty of tire...it appears to be a set-up issue. I remember that car being all over the place. That is certainly not indicative of how a well balanced swap behaves. The one caveat may be the tire compound that is allowed - could help explain at least some of the issues.

Tony

QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Sep 7 2016, 05:01 PM)

Posted by: brant Sep 12 2016, 08:59 PM

I wish the camera view/angle was better.
Not sure about that line in cork-screw...

Posted by: J P Stein Oct 9 2016, 09:02 AM

I's my observation that all too many folks are unaware that race tires heat cycle out. About 40 AX passes and they're done. We ate up a lot of guys over the years, as a result.

Posted by: kaiserms Nov 11 2016, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Aug 31 2016, 02:42 PM)

Posted by: campbellcj Nov 12 2016, 07:12 PM

I was further discouraged last weekend to find zero 914s at the VARA races. The overall turnout was low and there were only 2-3 911s, no 356s I recall.

Posted by: Cracker Nov 12 2016, 07:17 PM

...and this is a surprise? I caused quite a commotion a couple years ago with an open letter to this group - it was largely true and the general populous took offense. At race tracks - 914's are rare and becoming rarer. It takes allot of extra work to be on anything even close to being equal footing when campaigning a teener. My opinion then and now still is THAT extra work is worth it. It is hard to imagine how that message is lost on a site for...914's! I can only come to the conclusion that the affinity for 914 race cars only goes so far - frugality and laziness are terrible bed-partners.

PS: My football team just played in an entire half without gaining a single first down - not in the best of moods.

Tony

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 15 2016, 12:52 PM

I have to say I'm a bit surprised that 914s are rare in vintage racing (that's what VARA is, right?) I'd think they'd be a good candidate for that.

In POC and PCA Racing, agreed that there are not so many 914s anymore. Or aircooled cars, for that matter. I finally started racing my car last year, and I was the only 914 at the race. I plan to keep at it, though. I'm hoping to turbo the car when I rebuild the engine. That should give it some oomph!

Posted by: brant Nov 15 2016, 03:46 PM

I don't find 914's rare at all in vintage racing....

locally there are about 6 different ones that participate and an average of 4 per a weekend...

when I go to out of state SVRA,HMSA,CSRG races there are always 2-3

and in CVAR I gather they are up to about 6 per a weekend at their vintage races...


my opinion.... all of the 914's are leaving the clubs they started with such as PCA
they are all going to vintage racing... they are more competitive with other older machinery is all...

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 15 2016, 04:59 PM

QUOTE(brant @ Nov 15 2016, 01:46 PM)

Posted by: campbellcj Nov 15 2016, 06:29 PM

Andrew I think your comments further validate that modern tech such as aerodynamic aids, suspension geometry, ABS brakes and maybe most significantly the lightening-quick transmissions have made it much harder for 914s or early 911s to compete in fun or in actual winning ability. Hence the comments that old cars belong with other old cars.

In my car which is extensively modified (but not as much pure balls-out race car as some others here) it's always a give-and-take with the newer cars on track. Most of the GT3/4/5 cars won't run away from me on straights or in tight technical turns where it's mainly mechanical grip at work. Of course I'm rowing the gears manually and losing time every shift where some of them have PDK or whatnot. Under braking and in fast sweepers though, it can be "game over" as aero+abs+wider contact patch trumps my old school tech.

My last observation of VARA was probably a bit seasonal too. I have certainly seen greater Porsche presence at other VARA events. The overall attendance seemed poor at this last one, not only the p-car presence.

Posted by: Rand Nov 15 2016, 06:37 PM

It is quite enlightening that a stock modern car can kill a 914 in AX. Have to keep it in perspective. A friend of mine has a VW Passat with minor engine/turbo upgrades that can destroy most 914s in AX. Sigh. I like sleepers. My 914 isn't as stealthy as his VW which looks like a boring street car. A little envy going on.

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 16 2016, 09:43 AM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Nov 15 2016, 04:29 PM)

Posted by: Cracker Nov 16 2016, 10:07 AM

Andyrew - Part of what you describe is simply set-up issues; others are components; and lastly, driver skill. Packing a 914 with driver aides defeats the purpose to me. Learn to use powerless brakes; steering, use the damn clutch, etc., etc. I have a couple friends with new Cayman S' with PDK = boring! I guess it depends on what each persons objective is, if you want to develop as a driver - have a car that actually requires that of you. I have a long, long way to go but my car is now capable of running with anything we usually see short of a pro-driver at the wheel. 991 cup cars included...

Either way - its still a boat load of fun - tracking in a non-prepared 914 (to me) - not so much.

Tony

Posted by: wndsrfr Nov 24 2016, 08:03 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Nov 16 2016, 08:07 AM)

Posted by: J P Stein Nov 25 2016, 08:33 AM

It depends..........
A properly built 914 works fine and there are no reasons not to do it that way.
When ya get down to doing it, it is a very simple build.

Though I didn't set out this way, over a period of time I rebuilt/modified/removed everything on the car end to end.

Having a car that runs/drives is a good plan. I suffered 2 DNFs in 12 years ( both electrical issues). You'd think I would be a better driver....Oh well.

By the time I was done, IIRC , I had 2 load bearing wires in the car....that'll fixem'..

Posted by: brant Nov 28 2016, 11:38 AM

QUOTE(brant @ Nov 15 2016, 02:46 PM)

Posted by: stugray Nov 28 2016, 02:28 PM

I would disagree that 914s are not competitive.

My last race in RMVR, I actually won my class and the race with 9 other cars. (disclaimer - ONE car could have beaten me easily, but he hung back to watch the fireworks and he was forced to run on his rain tires).

My car was faster (in the straights even) than a RX7 and a Miata.

I have a 2013 Subaru BRZ, and my 914 can get better lap times than I can in it (albeit it has only had street tires while my 914 has hoosiers).

Posted by: garrettlee2 Dec 20 2016, 09:19 AM

I have an extra 71 if you want it. I will take a lot of love but the price is rite

Posted by: 2mAn Jan 6 2017, 12:49 AM

Hey guys, thought I would give you a little update. I finally popped my track cherry a few weeks ago and Im preparing for a much more busy 2017. Roll bar welded in, 6point harness, Cobra fixed racing seat, plus a new SA2015 helmet & new gloves.

First a sexy shot some dude got of my car on Mulholland

https://flic.kr/p/NgWAUMhttps://flic.kr/p/NgWAUM by https://www.flickr.com/photos/149500009@N03/, on Flickr

Heres a few of the pics from my day running with the SoCal Alfa group (AROSC)

Had to capture some pics in front of some iconic stuff



I love this plate, its a shame that I cant use this unless Im "off-road"


Streets of willow is a blast with a 24v E30

Here's a few more pics my friends wife took, he has some pics too and a few videos that I need to get my hands on



I was loving this turn, power sliding into 3rd going up the hill





Heres a few more pics that my buddy took, you can see the ass sliding out







2800fun indeed.

Ive been trying to convince my brother and my friend that we should go in on a 914 to race in Chump Car, but for now I will just keep getting more seat time in my E30

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 6 2017, 10:13 AM

Very cool! Congrats and see ya out at Willow Springs some day.

Posted by: 2mAn Jan 6 2017, 10:46 AM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Jan 6 2017, 08:13 AM)

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 6 2017, 06:55 PM

QUOTE(2mAn @ Jan 6 2017, 08:46 AM)

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Jan 6 2017, 08:13 AM)

Very cool! Congrats and see ya out at Willow Springs some day.

I will probably lose my sh!t if/ when I see a 914 at ANY track. I was so excited when I saw ONE at the Monterey Historics.

Posted by: 2mAn Jan 8 2017, 03:04 PM

Is the POC friendly with other makes joining in on the fun? Do I have to join POC to race with them? I would love to be on the track with P-cars

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 8 2017, 10:39 PM

QUOTE(2mAn @ Jan 8 2017, 01:04 PM)

Posted by: 2mAn Apr 28 2017, 11:40 AM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Jan 8 2017, 09:39 PM)

QUOTE(2mAn @ Jan 8 2017, 01:04 PM)

Is the POC friendly with other makes joining in on the fun? Do I have to join POC to race with them? I would love to be on the track with P-cars

Yep, non P-cars can always run in exhibition (EX) class and there are typically at least a couple. It is a "Porsche" club however and non Porsches can't run for competitive points/trophies. I'm pretty sure they will be at Streets of Willow next weekend 1/15 when I wll be at Buttonwillow.

Posted by: campbellcj Apr 29 2017, 10:14 AM

The POC event that weekend is actually at Willow Springs and is the big Tribute to Le Mans annual thing. It's basically a normal race weekend with a team endurance race added.

It's really unlikely I will be cleared to drive by then (ankle surgery) but I plan to at least be there, probably volunteering somehow and/or taking pics.

Posted by: 2mAn May 2 2017, 10:47 PM

I wonder if I can race in the 3 hour enduro? haha

Posted by: Alphaogre May 3 2017, 04:46 PM

Nice!!! I have always said if I got another toy car it would be an E30... Should be a blast.

That's a great track to run for the first time...I'm going to be taking the 914 to Streets at the end of May, can't wait!

Posted by: 2mAn May 11 2017, 02:23 PM

QUOTE(Alphaogre @ May 3 2017, 03:46 PM)

Posted by: campbellcj May 11 2017, 07:35 PM

QUOTE(2mAn @ May 11 2017, 01:23 PM)

Posted by: 2mAn May 11 2017, 07:40 PM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ May 11 2017, 06:35 PM)

Posted by: Alphaogre May 15 2017, 01:50 PM

They said that the Tribute to Le Mans will Saturday evening at the big track, I will be looking to head over there and watch after our sessions over at Streets....

Definitely say hi i'm giant and don't look like I'd fit in a 914 at all

Posted by: 2mAn May 18 2017, 01:24 PM

Ok I'm all registered, I actually spoke to the main guys behind POC and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I am now a POC member! I will be in the Time Attack 2 group with a handful of other cars. I'm very excited to be there. I'll be out there by myself so I hope I can meet you guys. My friend said he will drive up for the enduro but we'll see.

-Simon

Posted by: campbellcj May 18 2017, 06:34 PM

QUOTE(2mAn @ May 18 2017, 12:24 PM)

Posted by: 914_teener May 20 2017, 04:21 PM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ May 18 2017, 05:34 PM)

QUOTE(2mAn @ May 18 2017, 12:24 PM)

Ok I'm all registered, I actually spoke to the main guys behind POC and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I am now a POC member! I will be in the Time Attack 2 group with a handful of other cars. I'm very excited to be there. I'll be out there by myself so I hope I can meet you guys. My friend said he will drive up for the enduro but we'll see.

-Simon

Unfortunately I'm not going to make it tomorrow due to schedule conflicts I didn't know about earlier. Aren't teenagers great?

Posted by: Justinp71 May 26 2017, 09:28 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Nov 16 2016, 08:43 AM)

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Nov 15 2016, 04:29 PM)

Andrew I think your comments further validate that modern tech such as aerodynamic aids, suspension geometry, ABS brakes and maybe most significantly the lightening-quick transmissions have made it much harder for 914s or early 911s to compete in fun or in actual winning ability. Hence the comments that old cars belong with other old cars.

In my car which is extensively modified (but not as much pure balls-out race car as some others here) it's always a give-and-take with the newer cars on track. Most of the GT3/4/5 cars won't run away from me on straights or in tight technical turns where it's mainly mechanical grip at work. Of course I'm rowing the gears manually and losing time every shift where some of them have PDK or whatnot. Under braking and in fast sweepers though, it can be "game over" as aero+abs+wider contact patch trumps my old school tech.

My last observation of VARA was probably a bit seasonal too. I have certainly seen greater Porsche presence at other VARA events. The overall attendance seemed poor at this last one, not only the p-car presence.

I think if I had ABS on my car I would have been able to have been much more confident in my braking zones and stayed on the gas a bit more and held more speed going into corners as well. Im sure balance has a lot to do with that, but when I drove my Fiesta I toasted the brakes after about 8 laps chasing 911's, Boxsters, S2k's, and 370z's.

I KNOW I am going to setup my ABS system for the 914. I really, really wish I had ABS in the 914. I bet I would have picked up at least 2 seconds with ABS and probably another 2 seconds if I had a LSD. Every single corner I was fighting with the inside rear wheel breaking loose on just a little bit of throttle.

Posted by: 2mAn Oct 12 2018, 10:12 AM

so here we are a year later and Im back with a similar dilemma, but let me bring you guys up to speed what has happened since the last update. It all starts with that POC event I was at with the E30.

I chose the #318, as the car is actually a 318 model, though it has a 2.8L 24v aluminum I6 in it. This was a bit of a troll because the car is quite fast and left most of the POS guys scratching their heads



However, this was my last race with the car. I realized that what I had built was a lot of fun, but wasnt built to any rules and that meant Id be running with the "deep pockets" groups. This event also exposed certain issues the car has, mostly with a 225 tire, no aero and stock sized brakes... thats a quick $$$$ to drop to try and stay competitive with the 911s, M3s, Vettes, etc that Id be racing against. the decision to sell it happened shortly after and I took advice that was given here and elsewhere.

I read the rule book, specifically VARA since i want to race vintage cars.

I knew which groups I wanted to avoid, and slowly began to narrow down the list. I wanted an Alfa, clearly being influenced by the Alfa Club I was racing with, but I really didnt want to run in B-Sedan with all the maniacs (and budgets) of the 510s, 2002s and GTVs. A friend told me to check the Datsun Roadster with the larger 2000cc motor, and that group looked pretty good. Comparing the car to the competition made it even more appealing and last year, with the help of that same friend, we found the winner. It didnt look like much, and was a bit neglected, but pop the hood and this is what was staring at us..



Its the U20 (2000cc) motor with the optional Mikuni 44 dual side draft carbs that were a factory upgrade. These motors were rated at 150bhp with the carbs and "stage 2' B-cam. Granted mine likely has quite a bit less than 150bhp, but it still has the right parts. Spent a lot of time and money getting it mechanically sound, and though it wasnt ready for track time, I still took it to Willow Springs to see if I could get a few laps in. Unfortunately, the alternator died right when I got to the gate. She didnt want to be driven on the track... I pushed her into place to get this pic haha



Im at a bit of a crossroads with this car though because situations like what happened when I went to Willow Springs seemed to become more frequent, where she would happily cruise for hours and miles, but when I had a canyon run, or a trip to the race track planned she would die...

and here we are again. Im at the point where everything I do from here is all of the safety equipment (new roll bar, kill switch, fuel cell, fire suppression, etc) but Im a bit torn because do I keep chugging along and building it up, or do I sell it and buy something thats already done?

914world member 'jacquot' has a wonderful 914-4 thats ready to go, just needs new belts, but its a 2165 so its technically not going to fall into the D-Production group that a 914-4 2L would fall into, should I play dumb and run with them anyways?

I guess what Im asking is, am I reading too much into these events where I feel like the car is telling me "I dont want to be a racecar" or is it just odd, 50 year old car behavior?

a couple bonus pics of the Roadster for you guys that are more current

Posted by: twin356 Oct 15 2018, 06:43 PM

QUOTE(2mAn @ Oct 12 2018, 08:12 AM)

Posted by: twin356 Oct 15 2018, 06:44 PM

I happen to think a 914-6 is a Great Vintage Platform. Obviously, technology has advanced with time. Comparing a 45+ year car to things from other decades is not realistic. However, a properly built 6 can be a serious pain in the ass at the front of any grid.
PCA race at Summit Point hosted Vintage group, with 23 cars and 9 of them 914's.
Vintage seems to be coming back to PCA.

I am in the process of finishing a 5 year project, ground up build of 914-6, 2.0. . Yes, pretty much every part is gone through or new. You can buy just about ANY race car already built for pennies on the dollar Vs a build. Engine cost is likely the same for just about any size.

That said, the satisfaction of the build (with my father) is priceless.

Posted by: 2mAn Oct 17 2018, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(twin356 @ Oct 15 2018, 05:44 PM)

Posted by: campbellcj Oct 18 2018, 08:30 AM

Deciding what to buy, build or mod is a tough call and very personal/subjective, but also can be tons of fun.

Whatever you do, definitely don't underestimate the significance of maintenance, breakage/spares and consumables. These days I usually haul 4 bins of spares and tools to the track.

Also if/when you get 'serious' with wheel-to-wheel or time-attack/time-trial, you have to deal with replacement of helmets and harnesses every few years for instance. Also fuel cell bladders and even seats. Most 'all-in' track folks have at least 2 sets of wheels/tires; many have spare engines and transmissions. Body panels/spoilers. It gets crazy...

Posted by: Mayne Nov 25 2018, 09:54 PM

I’ve followed this thread off and on for a while now. I don’t chime in too often on this forum since my 914 is not getting much attention these days but I check in often. I’m a fan of BMWs, especially E30s, so I like yours. I also really like your Datsun Roadster, having owned a nicely modified one myself for years. Selling it was what allowed me to get into P-car ownership, with a 968 coupe. That lead to an early Boxster, a 944 Turbo, and finally a 914. I still own the last three. The turbo is morphing toward being a street-able track car, so I don’t think the 914 will ever be built that way. But even the brief time I’ve spent in it makes me appreciate the sophistication (really!) of the chassis compared to the Datsun. If I was going to build a vintage racer, a 914 would be the choice over a Roadster. And I don’t actually believe the Datsun would be much cheaper, since they don’t really share parts with other Datsun models. The bottom line is, if you want a 914, get one! I’ve loved them for as long as I can remember and having one now makes me smile every time I walk in the garage! Cheers!

Posted by: 914z Jan 5 2019, 11:55 PM

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Aug 30 2016, 06:23 PM)

Posted by: wndsrfr Jan 6 2019, 09:17 AM

QUOTE(914z @ Jan 5 2019, 09:55 PM)

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Aug 30 2016, 06:23 PM)

I need a car that needs me more than I need the car.....

If that makes sense to you, get the 914.

My /6 (2.7, about 2000 pounds) eats some E30's at DE's even with a 71 year old driver. Something very satisfying about doing that with a 40 year old car...

Abso_friggin_lutly; Being 66 with a 73 2.7 and a fantastic suspension I agree,..."Something very satisfying"...

Posted by: John Jan 16 2019, 02:06 PM

I'm biased. I'd say do a 914 or buy one already converted to a track car. On the other hand, a Boxster track car would probably make more sense.

My dad and I enjoyed building and driving the 914 on-track for 30 years, and I still get to continue driving the car that he bought new. We put this one together over the course of those same 30 years. We knew the car inside and out. I grew up with this one and read all the articles, all the mods (worthwhile and not worthwhile), and we started this track car out as the 2.0 4-cyl that it came with. When it was time for more power, it was converted to an 87' 3.2 (all the way back in 1989). We did this in order to have a car that would start, run, and have no issues as a 2 driver DE car. It will all boil down to what YOU want to do with the car.

I started driving this car on-track when I was 18 and learned how it responds, and we modified the car from there. It had it's flares since 1984, but the real 5-lug suspension didn't come until after we wanted to go stiffer. Today, it is a 930 front end and has 911 Carrera rear calipers and rotors. It sits on 400# rear springs with 23mm front torsion bars. It has a front sway bar and the rear sway bar was removed.

To build a new one today would probably be expensive all at once, but then again, this one was built over many years. It hasn't been a street car for about 25 years. The suspension and seats are not comfortable for casual driving, but are plenty comfortable strapped in and at speed. 914's are not for everyone, but they are very easy to learn, and are much more go-kart like than most other cars you will ever drive.

Like others have commented, I am usually the only 914 at the DE's that I attend, and am one of just a few air cooled Porsches at any event I attend.

a sampling of my toys...




just my $0.02

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Dec 26 2019, 11:30 AM

There are track prepped 914 and there are track prepped 914s......it's all about the budget. If you go the 6 route you're into Porsche price territory and it gets very expensive very quickly. If you remain in 4cyl land it can get expensive ( a properly built FAT motor will run you 12k), but that's barely the cost of a good EFI system for a 911 motor..The 4's are very competitive at AX and at some tracks for road race. Higher speed tracks you'll spend a lot of time pointing. Get the weight down to 1800 lbs or less and you'll be in the hunt.
All of that said the 914 is a very different driving experience than your M3 or a 911. More like a big go-kart. Really a blast.

One more thing - if you're going to seriously track drive it you'll want to put in a cage. Some states don't allow a full cage on the street. Personally I wouldn't drive a caged car without a helmet. Lastly, if you have plans to club race, go through the rules carefully before you choose a path. A fun way to race a 914 is vintage. If you go SCCA or ICSCC or similar you'll end up in race groups with Pro3 (3 series BMW) or Spec Miata's. I've worked enough races to say no thanks to both of those groups. Way too much contact for this old fart.

Posted by: mlindner Aug 29 2020, 07:33 AM

I love the 914's for track use. 15 years of auto-cross, track (Road America, Black Hawk) almost a trophy every event. Before and after being stored 15 years. Just waiting for 2.2S six to be tuned at Accumoto Motorsport. Best, mark

Posted by: partsman912 Nov 25 2020, 09:30 PM

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Nov 24 2016, 09:03 PM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Nov 16 2016, 08:07 AM)

Andyrew - Part of what you describe is simply set-up issues; others are components; and lastly, driver skill. Packing a 914 with driver aides defeats the purpose to me. Learn to use powerless brakes; steering, use the damn clutch, etc., etc. I have a couple friends with new Cayman S' with PDK = boring! I guess it depends on what each persons objective is, if you want to develop as a driver - have a car that actually requires that of you. I have a long, long way to go but my car is now capable of running with anything we usually see short of a pro-driver at the wheel. 991 cup cars included...

Either way - its still a boat load of fun - tracking in a non-prepared 914 (to me) - not so much.

Tony

There's always going to be someone there who's faster than we are in our 40 year old Teeners. But, how are you doing against your past personal best? That's one key thing I'm looking at. The other big ego boost is having person after person stop by in the paddock snapping pictures, asking what's in there, shaking their heads and saying "This is the car of the day for me". I don't think that would happen at all if I were in a GT3....just sayin'.

Posted by: Shivers Dec 22 2020, 05:41 PM

Yup, pulling the bumpers off is getting serious. Really nice car

QUOTE(mlindner @ Aug 29 2020, 05:33 AM)

I love the 914's for track use. 15 years of auto-cross, track (Road America, Black Hawk) almost a trophy every event. Before and after being stored 15 years. Just waiting for 2.2S six to be tuned at Accumoto Motorsport. Best, mark

Posted by: mlindner Jan 2 2021, 06:45 AM

Yup, small accident at Road America...needed repaint.