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Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 24 2019, 06:08 PM

1st track day in the bag with the new 914, no decent pics yet (there was a photog in attendants, but haven’t seen his pics yet). Car rand great and although running with much newer machinery she was holding her own once her driver brushed off the cobwebs...

Since this was essentially her first shakedown I found a number of little things I need to address, one in particular I’m questioning:

After a few laps I noticed - mainly on a flat sweeper turn, when entering hard on brakes and trailing off while turning in I’d get a soft groan from my outside wheel (drivers in this case). I’m thinking wheel bearing? I’ve never had one go bad on the front spindle before, so I’ve never heard or felt the slight vibration before. Never really occurred on any other turns.... thoughts?

Posted by: wndsrfr Oct 24 2019, 08:05 PM

First thing that comes to mind is "You could actually hear something like that?" Need to turn up the volume on the exhaust/intake!!
Seriously...probably bushing on the torsion bar or possibly strut shaft is dry and moaning as it's extended/compressed. Compress and release your left front by leaning on it in the quiet parking place slowly, even just slightly then more rapidly--might be able to track it down that way...
You can squirt some lube on the bushing and also mist some spray lube up into the strut cover to see if that makes any difference...

Posted by: 914 Ranch Oct 24 2019, 10:09 PM

When I turn in right my front left tire touches the valence's bottom corner and makes a gurrr sound.
Is that Thermal?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 24 2019, 11:28 PM

Ha, car is loud, 44 webber’s and headers, it does have a muffler though, not sure how much it muffles though...

Hmmm, didn’t dawn on me that something could be rubbing, thanks, some good things to look for, thanks, I’ll get it on the lift tomorrow and check it out. Getting tech’d tomorrow am for sunday autocross. Poor thing is getting its trial by fire!

Not Thermal, will get out there sometime (been scheduled and cancelled 3x now ) but it was streets of willow... Never done anything at willow before, fun little track, although braking zones are short and I need to work on my shifting (sloppy+user error).

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 25 2019, 07:44 PM

Took a hard look, couldn’t see any rubbing, autocross on sun, will see what she does then. In the meantime, putting on number graphics, she’s starting to look like a proper race car...

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 3 2019, 09:56 AM

Photo credit: @garyambrose1256

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Nov 5 2019, 04:55 PM

Wheel bearings usually make noise under lateral load regardless of brake pressure. That said, on track cars they're a consumable and not terribly expensive so I'd suggest switch them out.
What brakes, pads, etc are you running?
Sweet looking car btw.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 6 2019, 01:59 PM

Thanks! As far as brakes and pads, I’ve got A calipers in front on 3.5 struts (not sure if the inserts), Ms in the back on coil over bilsteins with 200# springs. running Porterfield RS-4 pads. Large aftermarket front sway and stock rear sway.

With street tires I get a nice gradual oversteer at limit, the way I like. I’m looking to get some 200 tread wear tires, then I’ll start tweaking from there...

Posted by: 2mAn Nov 6 2019, 05:48 PM

I recognize that car, I nearly bought it myself but was worried that the displacement was going to run my fun in vintage racing. Somewhere I have a bunch of pics I took of that car.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 6 2019, 10:16 PM

I know, you were posting on thoughts about it here when I was working the final negotiations with jacquot...

Lit a bit of a fire under me, bought it in October last year then got rear ended shortly thereafter. I had just finished updating all the safety gear and giving it a good once over...

As for vintage, i used to race in the 2 liter group in a well prepped 912. Originally I wanted to get a 914 for vintage, but so cal vintage racing has changed, VARA let’s in too many non vintage cars and drivers that shouldn’t be out there, and other groups have gotten too many cubic dollars spent on cheater motors for me to be competitive.

Got this car for autocross and DE, will see if I get the wheel to wheel bug again after that....

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 18 2019, 11:34 PM

October autocross with POC, nothing too eventful, gotta get rid of the rust, then find my balls! Had mandatory instructor for most runs, in the end let me run solo. Said he’d put in a good word to allow me a check run at next autox to get out of “student” classification.

Morning pic in the OC...

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 18 2019, 11:51 PM

Nov autocross, I’m starting to get hooked... definitely fun, but still prefer the big track. But this is so easy and cheap while dusting off the webs. Check run, first one out
Laid down solid 2 runs with chief driving instructor, upgraded my wristband to a real drivers band.

Another morning pic, but this time I was in good company:



Nice driver mostly stock 2 liter, driver was a young autox junkie coming off a 2 year hiatus, all day in practice runs I was a hair quicker... then when it counted, I botched it!

My timed runs involved a little bowling, and lost time cause I forgot the course and wasn’t looking far enough ahead, so critical turns ended up being surprises where I left a ton of time on the table.... All my timed runs were over 3 seconds longer than my typical practice runs.... I watched his timed runs as I was packing up, he definitely laid down some good laps, much faster than my practice times...

Ok, so gotta work on my performance anxiety too... All in, hard to complain when finally doing what I’ve wanted to do for over 20 years now... There were 5 teeners including mine on sun, nice people all very glad to see another 914 over the newer hardware.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 25 2020, 12:15 AM

Back to the track! Entered the PDS group of POC, more my style as we ran Big Willow. I used Gran Turismo Sport to learn the track, amazing how much I learned in that game. Unfortunately no 914s, but I tweaked a (dare I say it) Miata to simulate my 914.

Only driving issue was in the 1st session where I downshifted from 5th to 2nd at speed on exiting turn 8 and setting up for 9 spun 2x around ended up stalled facing the right direction, but she flooded and took a minute to start back up again.... ahhh humbling rookie mistakes... the rest of the weekend was uneventful until my clutch cable pulley decided to vacate on the track on the straight.

I set out with the slowest car, and succeeded, by several, not being the slowest driver

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 27 2020, 10:39 PM

Made it in to the POC mag Velocity, helps when the photog is a 914 guy!

https://issuu.com/porscheownersclub/docs/velocity_2020_20-2_single_pg?fr=sMDdhZTc3OTUzNw

We need more teeners out there, give me someone to dice with!

Posted by: dr.tim Mar 3 2020, 04:01 PM

Fast spot in the outside of 8, a spooky place to spin.. better than to go off wide on the exit of 9 though.

My schedule is already pretty full this year with The Ridge, Area 27, and Road America. I may head south in the fall though.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Mar 4 2020, 05:32 AM

Looks like you're having fun. I have to say, once I got my car on track, I was delightfully surprised how durable a bone stock 1.8 is on track. Only the factory oil cooler, so the oil does get hot during the summer, but change it every weekend and it keeps on ticking. Slow a molasses by modern standards, but they are great cars to learn on.

The Rennshifter definitely helped me with my shifts. I have never done the 5-2 but used to miss shifts fairly regularly. Not sure if you have one, but might be worth looking into.

Posted by: GregAmy Mar 4 2020, 07:32 AM

Been there, done that (2017 LRP Historics), bent all four valves...

Since then I've installed http://www.tangerineracing.com/shiftlinkage.htm and firewall bearing and it got rid of all the slop.

As long as you realize that the 914 can never shift like a Miata, and purposefully adjust your shifting action accordingly (think "slower"), you won't have any issues.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 5 2020, 10:24 AM

I wa s looking at the tangerine kit. The PO did some funky stuff at the firewall where it looked like the clutch cable broke through, so I’ve been a little afraid to dig into without opening a huge can of worms during the season. The easy thing about big willow is that it’s 4th and 5th gears only track, so now that I have a rhythm (slow and methodical) shifting, I’m having no issues.

My shifting gets really sloppy with 3rd, when warm it sometimes fights. We’ll see how it goes on slower tracks. Last time I did streets of willow, I had a few issues cause there’s little time to downshift on that course, so I tended to rush.

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Mar 6 2020, 10:46 AM

Me too. Sheared off my flywheel bolts. Fortunately didn't lunch the top end. Got close tho. Had 2 broken valve springs when I tore it down.

Posted by: campbellcj Mar 8 2020, 12:56 PM

It's cool to see a 914 out with POC, a fairly rare sight these days!

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 20 2020, 12:00 AM

Spent last weekend at WSIR again, here’s 1 lap, chasing down some 911s and making a few of my own mistakes...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3R2fOphY1A

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 20 2020, 12:08 AM

Car ran well in the AM, not so much in the heat, wasn’t too hot but she got harder to start at the end of the day. Sunday morning she fired up Like nothing was ever wrong...

Ready for the AM



Kills bugs, not quite as fast as a turbo...

Posted by: campbellcj May 20 2020, 07:23 AM

Very cool, sounds like a fun time - I hope to join ya out on the track later this year.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 20 2020, 07:53 AM

That would be awesome! Hopefully in your teener, we need more rep out there, your car will certainly turn some heads!

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 10 2020, 12:53 AM

Had 1/2 of a great weekend despite the heat. Was 115 Saturday, car ran warm but well. By Sunday, she only made it out one session before electronics succumbed to the heat. New lightweight battery, here we come! I was able to drag a friend out, he showed most of us up on his potent ‘57 speedster.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 9 2020, 10:55 PM

Skipped the race in Pahrump... onto Chuckwalla!

Beautiful start to the weekend.



Car was ready to go,



Day one, a bit disappointing in my afternoon sessions, off 5 Sec from morning sessions???

Day two, pushed hard, my best lap of the weekend, tried chasing down a spec boxster.... then it happened...



Kablooey! Looks like I’m in the market for a new engine... should I convert to a 6?

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 10 2020, 07:50 AM

What are we looking at? What went kablooey?

The Type 4 oil pickup system is poor, and really sucks (actually, fails to suck) once you start putting some hard g-loading on it. Dry sump is really the way to go, and it's not very expensive or difficult.

If money is no object, go /6, you can build a monster engine with tons of power*. But if you have budget constraints then you can still make as good or more power from a /4 for the same amount of money.

GA


*But be careful: more power = more speed = I need bigger brakes = I need better suspension = I need more tires = I need more wheels = I need more fenders = I need more safety = I need big rollcage = I need less weight = I need to cut away panels = I need to fab more cage = divorce = how in the hell did I get here...?

Posted by: wndsrfr Nov 10 2020, 11:05 AM

Go 2270 or 2316 (96mmx80mm stroker) for about 1/5 the price of /6 conversion. For another $2000 or so do a dry sump and you're more agile than a /6 anyway...

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 10 2020, 08:53 PM

I know, I’m going through that now. When I got the rear end repaired I had the bodyshop do some work on the hack job baseball bat rear flares. He did such a nice job I don’t want to go down the gt flare route with this car. I did make sure we could fit a 225 with a 3/4 in spacer though...

The pic is of all the oil coming from the top of the passenger side heads. The more I think about it, it could have been a high oil pressure issue. I had just made a mental note that the pressures seemed high just over 70psi about 30 seconds before the “pop”.

I need to drop the engine since the Fat shroud is covering everything topside. Speaking of Fat, I dropped by their shop to discuss a rebuild - yes I know their history, but I’m looking for a shop to assess the parts I have, if they’re any good anymore, most came from Fat or Scat...

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 10 2020, 09:12 PM

I prefer the narrow body too. Can't use as much tire, but therefore can't spend as much money, either.


I just sent FAT a short block last week (arrived Friday) for a build for my street car. Asking for a basic short block build with cam so we'll see how well it goes...buy some P&C and I've already got the heads.

So what's "the history"? I heard from reliabile soruces they are solid.

Last night I was thumbing through my October 1991 issue of "European Car" ("formerly VW&Porsche") - the 914 issue - and I spotted an ad from fat: "Dial 914. Cat FAT Performance. We're always ready to talk Type-IV...Send $5 today for our parts catalog. It's chock full of stuff too numerous to mention in this dinky ad.")

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 10 2020, 09:17 PM

The current engine is (was) a 2165 (94x78), it was definitely tired as it was originally assembled in 1998, so this wasn’t a big surprise. I have a brand new set of 96mm JE pistons that came with it, that would push it to a 2258. All signs are pointing towards the 4 build unless all my good parts are toast.

Car has a 914-6 tank and runs a front cooler, with the tuna can I never saw any low pressure issues, and that’s running Big Willow and Fontana, both long high speed, high g tracks.

Since I like running with POC, there aren’t many older cars, so the other option is to sell this car and buy a used Cayman S and start upgrading. That’s a slippery slope as well, and defeats my original intent of spanking the new tech with my old 4 banger.... I just don’t want to start throwing too much $$$ into a lost cause.

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 10 2020, 09:23 PM

You sure it's not just a popped breather hose? I've had two instances of valve cover hoses separating from the heads on the track...and it made a mess of the track both times. To resolve this at Lime Rock '19 I had to kinda-flare the aluminum fitting with a taper, glue on the hose to the fitting with adhesive, then drill a hole through the hose, clamp, and fitting and run a cotter pin across them then goop it up with silicon. Worked like champ for the weekend.

Next pair of valve covers will use TIG'd on AN fittings with screw-on hoses. That ain't coming off.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 10 2020, 10:12 PM

Wow, I hope so! What are your thoughts on 72ish psi oil pressure? I’ve always heard 10 psi per 1k rpm is typical for a street engine. I was only spun up to 5k when it popped....

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 10 2020, 10:30 PM

Sorry I missed your post, I think the gal showed me your stuff, LOL. As for history, Fat used to be the “it” company for type IVs. Won numerous Baja races with their Volkswagen based builds. Short version is they got bought out and new mgt started cutting corners and some of the old timers. They bought a great machine co RIMCO and did the same, quality suffered for a few years till they got their act back together. Now they are supposed to be pretty solid. Just watch out cause parts avail / lead time and typical auto mech communication can ruin the experience.

Ever since I got my first teener at 20, I wanted a Fat built motor. They used to be down the street from where I grew up in Santa Ana, would go with my neighbor (he had a McDonald’s sponsored Baja bug he’d run in the 500/1000) to Fat and drool over their parts... had no idea what I was looking at back then, but it always stuck with me.

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 10 2020, 10:32 PM

No thoughts on the oil pressure. Greater than zero and I'm happy.

Though, high oil pressure would not generally cause VC hoses to pop off.

I'd say put it on the trailer and take it to a car wash. Soap it all off with a car wash sprayer, fire it up and see if you have oil pressure. If so, then seek out the oil loss, starting at the heads' oil tubes, then valve covers/gaskets, block vent, oil tower, etc. If you still have oil pressure and no bangy-bangy noises then it doesn't sound fatal.

First time this happened the swaged tube itself pulled out of the head (2L engine). Second time was the hose pulling off of the VC fitting (1.7L engine so no head vents). And it was always the outside-of-the-turn head that had the problem (either tube pulling out or hose pulling off the VC) as I suspect the liquid oil was pooling in the top end and the case pressure was blowing it out.

Those head fittings are now threaded into the head for the 2L street car, and will be plugged off on the 2L race engine to use threaded VC hoses in the race car. It's always something. (the 1.7L was a temporary/borrowed F Production engine)

I got good vibes corresponding with "Dennis" at FAT about a build. Let's see if they come through.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 17 2020, 09:12 AM

Well, no such luck on the damage. I dropped the motor and the more I dug into it, the more I realized it was not going to be good...

First, there was a about half a quart of oil in my header...


Then I dropped the engine and noticed the crack in the shroud from an impact coming from the inside...


Then all the metal falling out as I took the shroud off...


Looks like I lost an exhaust valve, then all hell broke loose...

Hmmm decisions....

Posted by: mepstein Nov 17 2020, 09:14 AM

Holy moly

Posted by: brant Nov 17 2020, 09:39 AM

those "windows" in the case are a clear sign of the rod needing more space

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 17 2020, 12:13 PM

Ooooowww....

"So what happened?"

"Cooling system issue."

"Oh?"

"Yeah, a rod went through the cooling shroud."

Posted by: campbellcj Nov 18 2020, 08:55 AM

^^^

So this is basically why I went -6 after nervously running a -4 on the track for a couple years...

Re. POC it's gotten depressing how few older cars are out there - meaning 986/996 era is now "classic" and the action is in the BSR and 911 GT3 type stuff. I've thought about moving to a BSR or Cayman but would have to sell a car for budget and space and don't want to... I may go check out VARA next year as well (finally)

Posted by: Racer Nov 18 2020, 09:39 AM

lolz.. depressing not many 40-50 year old cars out there.. vs only 20 year old cars.. Time has a way of moving on.
Other than Historic/Vintage clubs, I don't see a lot of 40-50 year old cars out there to begin with.. and most of them have drivers/owners that are even older!



As to the OP, sorry to see/hear about your engine woes. Yes, decision time on where to exchange money for an engine

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 18 2020, 02:45 PM

Just got off the phone with Dennis at FAT, looks like I’ll be staying with the 4. I got good vibes from him too, he seemed excited about building another type IV.

He’s going to check out the parts I have, see if they can be reconditioned to use in the new motor. I don’t think any of these will make the cut...

Posted by: Tdskip Nov 18 2020, 04:05 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9463 - ouch.

Sorry to see it man, ouch ouch ouch.

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Nov 19 2020, 12:45 PM

Ooooohh.... that hurts... Did it destroy the crank too?

Keep us posted on the Fat Build. I'm penciling out a spare for my race car.

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 19 2020, 04:23 PM

I can't see any way that the crankshaft survived that. Even if it did, I'd be hard-pressed to use it (I broke my 2L crank in the middle last year.)

The FAT team is rebuilding my 2L street car engine now...

Posted by: wndsrfr Nov 19 2020, 08:25 PM

FAT provided my 80mm stroker crank which is a new forging (not a welded up turned down OE crank) and put in 5 dowel pins vs. the stock one pin. IIRC the crank is only about $550 or so--deal for sure.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 2 2020, 09:29 PM

FAT was the deal back in the Hot VW&Dune Buggy days. Do you have a HP/TQ target?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 4 2020, 11:32 PM

Yup, the old FAT was next to my dads work growing up, I used to wander in there and drool over all the shiny parts as a kid. Promised myself a FAT build someday when I bought my first 914 as a poor college student. Finally almost 30 years later here we are.

We’re talking about 2 different target builds depending on condition of my 78mm crank, 195 hp if mine is refurbish-able, or 205 using their 82mm crank. But we’re talking about a durable performance engine vs max hp.

As far as my blown parts , old engine had(s) a scat forged crank, it looks surprisingly good, some chew marks on the counterweight, needs to be checked out. Cam looks ok too. The carillo rod (and je piston) took the biggest bashing, bent and snapped the end cap bolts. Adjacent rod has a ding in it, and it’s piston has a ding on its face, they’re most likely junk.

What may have saved the crank was the thinner walls of the cylinder, looks like it pushed right through the top of it, taking a portion of the case with it.

All will get throughly examined, measured, and tested before reusing anything. Overall wear was surprisingly minimal inside engine, crank and cam bearings could use freshening, but could still see crosshatching on surviving cylinders, pretty good for a 20 year old build with mostly track miles... always on Brad Penn changed yearly.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 3 2021, 09:03 AM

UPDATE:

Motor build is progressing fine, ultimately decided on a dry sump 2165cc (78mm crank, 94mm pistons). Had a few parts test out unscathed and they’ll be reused, but going with some extra machine services for dry sump oiling.

Stay tuned, much more to come... ������ ������ ������

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 3 2021, 11:53 AM

What dry sump pump will you be running? I've been successfully using the CB pump with mods for a few years now, but it's only autocross, so shorter run times, but very high G loads on the Hoosier A7's.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 3 2021, 01:16 PM

Sorry, I thought I had a picture of the clean pump, but the car previously had a heavy duty aftermarket pump, I don’t recall the name, it’s at the engine builders now, but it’s huge. Here it is, really dirty, during disassembly, internals are perfect. I have 2 filters, on on the stock 6 tank and the other on engine as seen.

I never had any oiling issues on track with this, 911 style thermostat, and rx7 cooler in front, using a real 6 tank.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 3 2021, 01:18 PM

Also used modified tuna can on bottom. Only concern I ever had was the hose being at the low point of car (4” per POC rules) although never had any issues...

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 3 2021, 04:56 PM

Looks like a BugPack pump. Did you happen to record CHT on the cylinder you had a seat drop? Just curious if there were any warnings.

Posted by: ChrisFoley Feb 3 2021, 06:23 PM

Autocraft Dry Sump Pump.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 3 2021, 07:18 PM

No the pump had some other name inscribed, like SC performance, I just can’t remember. As for CHT no, the build was over 20 years old with unknown mileage. I could tell it was tired, I had planned on top end rebuild and ring check at the end of the season (1 more race). I was at chuckwalla when it broke, I had noticed a 4 sec add to my times from morn to afternoon sessions the previous day, at first I thought it was me. Then on Sun I could tell it was down on power, but I was determined to keep up/pass a spec boxster and I was pushing really hard - no overrevs, just hard on brakes and cornering. I had caught up to where the following lap I was going to challenge for position, then it let go... oil temps were at 190-200 as I just eyeballed in the straightaway right before the blow, nothing looked out of wack... I think it was just time.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 3 2021, 07:26 PM

BTW, the valve head broke off, no dropped seat. Probably from an over rev that kissed the piston when I missed 5th and locked the wheels in 3rd on turn 8 at Big Willow at my first race of the season....

Posted by: Tdskip Feb 4 2021, 08:27 AM

Thanks for the updates - sounds like you have a good build plan underway.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 4 2021, 10:32 AM

Plans changing really fast, counting on things looking different Saturday

Posted by: Tdskip Feb 4 2021, 10:36 AM

One musty flexible like a lotus leaf grasshopper Antique horsepower where you find it

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 6 2021, 08:38 PM

The 914 gods were on my side and I finally picked up my dream car! Many of you saw the euro 6 for sale for a short time, I’m the lucky bastard who brought it home! She’s right out of trailer from bringing her home, some spit and shine she’ll look almost too good to get out on the track. Thank you to prior owners PL (RIP) and his wife JL for taking a chance on me. More details after I get settled...




BTW, anyone interested in a 71 914-4 race car with a freshly built FAT upright 911 fan motor (build currently in progress)? She’s light and fast... keep an eye on the classifieds as she’ll be up soon!

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 7 2021, 01:10 PM

Nice Upgrade !!!

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Feb 17 2021, 11:18 AM

Sweet!

If you'd be interested in selling the T4 engine separate from the car let me know.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 18 2021, 12:29 AM

PM sent

Posted by: ndfrigi Feb 18 2021, 12:58 AM

Congrats on your new beast @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9463
Maybe you can show your new car on the coming SoCal meet in San Dimas.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 18 2021, 08:13 AM

Thanks, I’d like to, but I’m still trying to get her sorted. Finding out there is no easy way to change the lower spark plugs without dropping the engine. It’s coming out anyway, valve job and closeup inspection as she’s been sitting awhile. Once done you’ll see her on the street as well as the track.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 17 2021, 03:08 PM

Who would have thought spark plugs would be on back order... yanked the motor, did the valves, spot on, took a look inside, I think I still see assembly lube... how many miles are on this engine???



Decided to do a leak down test as well... at 70, 90, and 100 psi I got less than 1% leak down on all cylinders this thing is near new!



Ordered valve cover seals, will button her back up.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 19 2021, 10:51 AM

Score!

Posted by: Justinp71 Mar 22 2021, 09:56 AM

Nice Motor! What are the specs on it (size, cams, etc...)?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 23 2021, 08:12 AM

Motor came with limited info, but finding notes referencing:
3.4 max moritz 9.8 comp pistons with 964 cam
46 ida Webers
Electromotive HPV-1 dual plug ignition

Once I get it dialed in at the track I’ll get it up for some dyno pulls

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 23 2021, 09:47 AM

I have 964 cams in the ‘74 911 with the 3.2, they work well.

Posted by: campbellcj Mar 27 2021, 08:07 AM

Wow congrats, that looks like a lot of fun!

Posted by: slivel Mar 27 2021, 11:45 AM

Similar build as my engine except I have GE 80 cams. For comparison, mine made 290 at the wheels.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Apr 10 2021, 10:15 PM

Got motor back in, everything hooked up, 6 qts of VR1 for starters, immediately fired, but took about 10 tries to prime the carbs before she stayed running.

Was sitting in the car keeping the rpms up when I started hearing loud popping and what I assumed were engine bits being thrown to the floor...

Turns out it was this...



A crew is retrofitting the lights in the warehouse, these were stacked on the W/D near the rear of the car, the exhaust vibrated them off.

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Apr 11 2021, 07:02 PM

The beast ROARS!

Posted by: infraredcalvin Apr 11 2021, 08:56 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZiq93JBxTY


I was able to tune most of the popping and hacking out, but on three of the 6, idle mixture had no effect, time to start taking apart and cleaning out...

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 1 2021, 10:15 PM

Still have the 4, finally got my new FAT build back. According to the builder, this is what 180 horses looks like...



This car is so fun and lightweight, I’m going to have a hard time putting it up for sale...

Posted by: Justinp71 May 2 2021, 11:22 PM

Start with just cleaning the idle jets if you haven't already... Then if needed pull out the idle mixture screws (with idle jets out) and blow out with carb cleaner.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 2 2021, 11:56 PM

Thanks, I ended up, rebuilding the carbs, glad I did as some of the gaskets were ready to start leaking. It also gave me some piece of mind that gaskets were not the culprit for my current tuning issues.



I was still getting spits and misses, worse than before, so I attached my lm2 data logger and pulled spark plugs. She was running pig rich across the board. PO had notes about finally getting the carbs dialed in, so I was trusting his base settings, my gut kept telling me everything was too big...

Venturis: 42
Main jets 170
Idle jets 55
Emulsion tubes F7

I finally got the balls to change main jets to 160 and idles to 50, wow what a difference! No more popping and missing, still rich, but no flat spots where the motor was getting bogged by fuel, moving closer to the sweet spot.

I started having issues with my lm2, so I installed a permanent afr gauge in the cockpit. No data logging, but I can start fine tuning now... anyone know any good carb tuners?

Looks like I’m going to make it to big Willow the weekend of the 15th... looking for a trailer to rent also...

My girls wanted to see some purple on the car so I’m playing with livery schemes on photoshop.

Posted by: Justinp71 May 4 2021, 02:17 PM

Fyi, they run rich all the time. This is so the transition from idle to main circuit is smooth. These were designed for max power and with economy not in mind. You sound like you have it tuned fairly well.

IMHO main thing is to have it in the 12's or low 13's AFR at full throttle in the high RPM band, then you won't do any damage to the motor.

I'm only running 160 mains on my 3.2 to give it 12.8 -13.4 AFR (@68f outside air temp) at the high end which is good. This motor has cams and headers, should be about 280hp. I would think you might need larger jets? It also depends on on your air jet sizes too, mine are 190. I have F11 emulsions, I thought about trying F7's but it is running good right now just wish it was a little leaner at idle and cruise (12 afr best case).

Posted by: Justinp71 May 4 2021, 04:26 PM

Also I'd just drive it to the raceway... much more fun! Get AAA 200 mile incase of a mechanical breakdown. Only thing to consider if you do break on the raceway AAA may not tow you out of the raceway not sure. I've done about a half dozen track days this way. Would probably be nice to eventually get your own small 914 size trailer if you go alot.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 4 2021, 11:58 PM

I’m hearing you about running rich. I’m still getting into the 10s at WOT, track is 1500 ft higher in elevation than my house, so rich here is going to be really rich there. I may try downsizing mains and idles one more time, see where that gets me. These afr gauges are a godsend and a curse, in the search for perfect AFRs.

As for driving there, well not yet, a uhaul will work fine, it’s easier to drop the car at the track and not worry about it in a hotel parking lot.

Posted by: Justinp71 May 6 2021, 04:13 PM

Wow, 10:1 at WOT that is rich, got some power on the table there...

You may want to consider a more open yet still combining exhaust. Knight racing talked me into a single magnaflow 2x2 muffler. If you're looking for more power, that should help lean it out too.

Some cool dyno tuning info on this thread plus the picture of the muffler setup, this guy also happened to talk to knight racing. 253 WHP from a street 3.2-
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/794830-3-0-3-2ss-pics-dyno-sheets-before-after.html

Posted by: Charles Freeborn May 8 2021, 08:48 AM

Try going up a size on air correction jets too.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 18 2021, 02:51 PM

No videos or real pics, but Willow Spring's was a bit humbling for me last weekend. Car needs A LOT of dialing in.

Motor ran fine, but I feel I'm missing 50-75 horses somewhere in the tune. Chatted with a few shops that were there, looks like it'll be headed to AASE shortly for a test and tune.

I was really uncomfortable in the car, seat too high, wheel too close, shifting with the Vellios 915 is vague a best. Enough with the excuses, but I was 8 seconds quicker per lap in the old car... huh go figure...

At least I now have a baseline and can start tweaking to make it mine!

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 18 2021, 10:55 PM

Arrived at track!

Posted by: Justinp71 May 21 2021, 05:52 PM

Nice! I'm sure you'll be knocking the seconds down with getting it tuned in!

How do you feel with your suspension? Able to carry a lot of speed thru the turns?

Might be able to keep it in the taller gear thru a turn to gain time if shifting is real slow, that big 6 will just push thru. I've done this in other cars and been faster.

Are you still 10:1 AFR at WOT? That will hurt power. Also if you don't already have it consider combining your exhaust outlets. Timing would be another good area to check.

I am thinking of going with a kirkey seat next to gain headroom, probably direct mount.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 22 2021, 11:04 AM

Right now engine tune is my highest priority, yes as I glanced down I could see the AFRs creeping into single digits, so it’s stabilizing in the low 10s. The motor seems really slow to rev, like it’s running out of breath... possibly a timing issue. I found some old dyno sheets in some of the piles of stuff that came with the car, it was showing high 160s to the wheels. Im not sure if it’s the dyno for this motor as it seems really low for what I’m told is in this car, I think it should be well over 225 if not 250 at the wheels. But right now my butt is saying it might be true, could it eally be off close to 100 hp??? sounds like wishful thinking... we’ll see.

Regardless, torque is nice enough to hold tail to the ground, it spins slow, running out of steam around 5k - maybe cam choice? Lots of variables, that’s why I’ve got an appt set up with experts, want to be sure I’m maxing out what I have before changing expensive motor parts out.

As for handling, cars seems neutral, seems like I could hold much more though the corners with new tires, the old r888 are really unpredictable on this car, due to sizes I’m looking at yoko a052, hear they are the best for 200 tw at the moment...re71s don’t come big enough for 16 in rims. And my pocket can’t afford Hoosiers yet...

As for seat, yes, need to get it on the floor. I’m not a fan of any aluminum seats, watched a fellow racer get trapped cause the al seat clamshelled around his body, and he couldn’t get out without help prying the seat open. thankfully no fire, but it was a scary moment for sure. Lots of people run them, and this was prob a fluke, but made the decision to stay away since then.

I got my Recaros on the floor in the old car by taking out the cross support, it gave me almost 2 more inches clearance. I don’t want to do that in my 6, so I’ll have to come up with something else, but an inch would be a huge help.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 22 2021, 11:20 AM

Gotta pin down front of hood. PO put spacers at the rear of hood, prob to let all this air out from the nose...sheesh it’s like a parachute! I now know why the factory has 4 pins on the nose (mine only has 2 just behind the light buckets).

Posted by: wndsrfr May 22 2021, 02:20 PM

On tires, check again on the Bridgestone RE71R's....I'm on 225 on 16's & really like them, very sticky....

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 22 2021, 07:49 PM

I had the RE71s on my old car (205/50/15) loved them, the new car has 245/45/16s in the rear... so trying the yokos...

Posted by: stownsen914 May 23 2021, 08:11 AM

Wow. You may want to consider looking into different methods of exhausting air from the front trunk area. It's tempting to use the rear of the front trunk, but it's not ideal as it's a high pressure area (being immediately in front of the windshield). In fact, air may be flowing IN there instead of out. This might explain the hood popping up like in the pic - the air is working overtime to get out.

Posted by: stownsen914 May 23 2021, 08:30 AM

On the engine tune, AFRs around 10 is way rich. For sure you need to go leaner. Idle jets barely matter on track, drop the mains another couple sizes and see where that gets you.

Someone mentioned air correctors. You don't mention what size those are, but they're important too. Air correctors affect top end more than mid range. If the rich running starts like 5000 RPM and up, consider swapping air correctors (keeping in mind that the effect is opposite that of the other jets, so go larger to go leaner). If you're rich throughout the RPM range, stick to adjusting the main jets first.

Missing that much hp makes me wonder if something is fundamentally wrong. Timing is a good place to look. Make sure total advance is in the range you want, like low 30s for single plug or mid/upper 20s for twin plug. Or a major restriction on intake or exhaust. I assume you have the usual PMO style carb filters? On the exhaust, it would have to be a cork to kill 50 hp though. What do you have?

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 23 2021, 10:12 AM

Hmmm never thought of it that way, I would like to adjust anyway, the stewards kept asking to check it as it looks like it’s not fastened down just sitting there. Also could be shock mounts preventing it closing all the way too... gotta investigate further.

The current air exhaust hole is tiny, and the cooler has no shroud, I’m losing a ton of efficiency here... sorry for the flipped picture, but here is my front trunk.

Posted by: stownsen914 May 23 2021, 11:53 AM

It's a little hard to figure out the orientation from the picture. A couple comments though.
On a track car, a fan shouldn't be necessary. In fact, it'll probably just get in the way of the air flow, which should be enough pretty much any time the car is moving. Fans are more for stop and go traffic situations.
As you suggest, air exhaust is just as important as the air coming in. If it can't get out, nor more air will come in, and the cooler won't do its job.
Shrouding on the inlet side is very important. Air doesn't like to go through a cooler, it'll choose pretty much any other path you give it. So the inlet shroud needs to go from the inlet and guide the air to the face of the cooler with no gaps, etc. on the seems. 1/4" is too much. You can use weatherstripping foam like you get at Home Depot for windows and ducting, or even tape to seal seams and cracks.
Shrouding on the outlet side of the cooler isn't as important. It's still a good idea, but not critical. But the air needs an opening in a low pressure area to escape the trunk. Wheel wells or trunk floor are good places. Some people just pull out those round factory plugs in the floor. Hood is good too if done right, but then you're cutting bodywork - not everyone's preference.

How are your oil temps?

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 23 2021, 03:47 PM

Yeah sorry for the pic, imaging standing on the gas tank looking down - battery fuel filter are against the firewall. Oil temps are seemingly ok, car has a euro temp gauge ©, it sits at 80 then creeps to 100 where I’ll pull the fan switch, fan is on the fog light switch. My guess is that most air is going around cooler, the fan is a puller type, so that’s prob the only time it actually has decent air flowing through it.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 23 2021, 03:51 PM

I feel like the PO did his reading, bought a bunch of nice parts and put them all on the car. The whole thing seems to need initial tuning- fine tuning....

As for the car being a “track” car, technically it’s still street legal, so it’s a track oriented street car, which for now is how I’d like to keep it.

Posted by: Justinp71 May 24 2021, 03:30 PM

I agree may have something fundamentally wrong. Check your spark plug wires and fire order. I had an old chevy v8 along time ago that had two close wires swapped with similar issues to what you are describing. Would make sense why your afr is so low, actual unburnt fuel in the exhaust. My 3.2 with DC40 cams takes off like a banshee and yours should be faster, for comparison I am about 12.5:1 AFR at WOT on the high end.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 27 2021, 11:16 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6985 I never answered your question about the carb specs. Sadly I'm a noob as it relates to carbs, which is why I'm so thrown by this. When I did the carb rebuild I was able to figure out the following, but as i go down with the main jet and idle jets, my gut is telling me that everything else is too big...

Weber 46 IDA 3C

Idle jet: 50
Main jet: 140
Emulsion Tubes: F7
Air Correction: 170
Choke: 42

Air filters are K&Ns with a flat rain shield type top. Exhaust are equal length 6 headers at 1.625 and a monte 2 in 2 out muffler.

Posted by: wndsrfr May 27 2021, 07:17 PM

I'll chime in about the air filters with rain hats....I found that mine only had slightly more than 3/4 inch from the top of the velocity stack to the metal lid. That caused what I think was significant shrouding of the air flow. My solution was to go to the ITG type filters that have only foam above the edge of the stacks so no shrouding will occur...ymmv...

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 27 2021, 09:04 PM

Hmmm that did cross my mind, but I see this setup consistently, so I dismissed it...could be why she seems out of breath on the top end...

Posted by: Justinp71 May 28 2021, 12:05 PM

I dont think rain hats are your issue, I run them and mine doesn’t run out of breath.

My carb setting notes-
• 38mm vents
• 160 mains (give 12.8-13.4 afr wot max, @68f air temp) , (170 mains give 12.0-12.6 afr WOT)
• 190 air
• F11
55 or 60 idle, 1.76mm IAC


Its a 3.2,dc40 cams, 9.5:1 comp, a very similar motor with slightly larger headers made ~255hp at the rear wheels which comes out to around 290hp crank.

I think there is something fundamentally wrong, spark plug wires crossed, timing way off, maybe the po installed stock 3.0 heads, cams going flat or valves need to be adjusted... or something wrong with the carbs and they are dumping too much fuel.

Posted by: stownsen914 May 29 2021, 07:51 AM

Been off the forum a couple days ...

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the setup. Sure, jetting could be off a bit, rain hats sit close to the stacks. I'm sure things could be optimized, but these things aren't costing you 100 hp. I agree with Justinp71 that something more fundamental is way off. I think taking the car to an experienced Porsche shop to do some tuning may get to it. It may be worth looking at some basics to see where things may be off. Ignition is an easy one to check - I can't recall if you mentioned what the timing is, but maybe check it with a timing light. Maybe check the spark strength with one those spark tester gizmos. Could the muffler be plugged up somehow? Monty is supposed to be a decent muffler.

Posted by: Krieger May 29 2021, 08:56 AM

What do your spark plugs look like? I was using my AEM mixture meter for tuning my carbs. What I didn't realize was that my O2 sensor was toast. My spark plugs told a different story than the air fuel meter.

Posted by: Krieger May 29 2021, 09:01 AM

Oh, I dynoed my 3.0 with and without the water shields. Back to back runs. 10hp at the top end only. One day I may switch to the ITG style or do my own thing.

Posted by: infraredcalvin May 29 2021, 08:25 PM

Only got 1/2 day in the car today, I have an appt to take it to Aase Motors in mid June, so I wanted to look at some of the other issues plaguing the car.

Font bumper off and brakes bled.... bumper is too tight to body work, hood overlaps the edge, so I gotta put some spacers or find some dog bones to offset. Front left didn’t bleed, looks like I’m rebuilding a giant caliper... that appears to be the hanging noise I heard on track.

Posted by: Justinp71 May 29 2021, 09:48 PM

Wow! Those brakes are huge!

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 1 2021, 11:38 PM

Started to take things apart, realized after removing pads that one piston was slightly stuck (turns out it was really low on fluid) I got it loose and started looking at the bleeders themselves. Both were crudded up. Poked a needle in there and cleaned them out with carb cleaner, then reinstalled and bled out the remaining old fluid, worked great!!! No more embarrassingly loud squeak every time I touched the brakes! This should put some confidence back into my braking on track. Drove her around a bit and got some gas. AFRs are not that far off... still feels pent up, I know she wants to go fast....

Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 16 2021, 10:34 AM

Cool. Did you check the firing order is good? What was your afr at WOT?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 17 2021, 10:56 PM

I’m dropping off at Aase tomorrow, hopefully some answers shortly…. If anything it’ll help me reach a baseline.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 18 2021, 10:38 AM

Cool!

Does your car stay cool on the track? I had to open up the front of the body alot more than you to keep my temps down, but I am also running the stock GT front oil cooler.

Also how is your rear suspension setup? do you like it? Mine seems a bit soft and feel like the trail arms move some. I'm probably going to do the Rebel racing rear bushings like I did in the front.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 18 2021, 06:32 PM

one cam is 180 out of time,,,

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 19 2021, 12:06 AM

Car keeps its cool so far, but without proper shrouding it appears it is really inefficient. If I make it to Fontana in aug, that’ll be the rapture test (last year it was 114 in the pits). So far my gauge is telling me the hottest it’s gotten Ian 100 deg C (212F). If I close up the hood though, I’d bet I don’t have enough exit area in the floor…

Suspension seems ok, tires are old Toyos, they seem a bit unpredictable, but prob cause they are aged out, right now these are the last of my worries, I’ll replace with new A052s when I’m ready to be competitive. I’ve got rubber bushings still (I think) but coil overs front and rear, a big sway up front (none in back) it’s a pretty stiff ride.

Funny thing is it runs pretty neutral, with a much different setup than my old narrow body race car, I guess that’s what tire width does for you.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 19 2021, 12:12 AM

Funny you mention this! Jeff at Aase thinks it’s a timing issue as well, but he thinks it’s due to flywheel marks being off 30 deg - but I think that was before he knew I have a vellios 915 in there.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 21 2021, 03:48 PM

Cool. I've noticed to me it seems when you go from 205's to 225's in the rear the car does become more neutral, but there are obviously many factors that play into it.

Also consider the BFG Rival 1.5S tire, I'm not saying its better because I don't really know but I'm running them now and they are gripping great and have great wear so far. Only 2 track days on them, but I also drive the street and drive to the track.

Cool you have coil-overs in the front. I've heard that gives more options for spring rates, amongst other things I would think.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 21 2021, 07:18 PM

Got a great report back from Aase this afternoon, timing was off a bit. Timing at idle was set at 8-9 deg adv, then at 3k up to 25-26 ish, then from 3k-8k was retarted back 7-8 degrees for total advance of 17-18 deg. So he pushed it back up to 26-28 deg and he said it definitely woke her up. So next step is to pick her up, continue tweaking/driving, then take to dyno for final tune. No carb changes, he felt I had her in a good spot. At least I was on the right track….

Not sure he found 100hp, but I’m hoping he woke up at least another 50hp. We’ll see what the butt dyno says tomorrow.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 22 2021, 05:56 PM

Well that is good. That should really help the throttle response too. Get a plate on it so you can test it on the street! Should be super easy since its smog exempt.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 23 2021, 08:05 AM

It does have a plate, I drove it from the shop to work, then home, unfortunately traffic kept me from opening her up much, but she now breaths easily past 5k rpm.

Time for some tweakimg!

Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 25 2021, 09:25 AM

Cool! So when is the next track day?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 25 2021, 10:46 PM

Not till early August, CA speedway in Fontana. Should be a hoot.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 28 2021, 10:05 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2922

How are you tuning your carbs? For some reason the voodoo of “listening” for the sweet spot is lost on me. Since going to Aase, my car runs much better, but I still feel there’s much left on the table with some tweaking.

I have an afr logger I’m going to set up this week and I’ll post results for thought/comment here.

Any additional thoughts are welcome, but not expected till I get some data posted.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 30 2021, 01:24 PM

I went thru the PMO notes and checked for proper float levels, fuel pressures and then the air balance between each throat. Then I just do the idle adjustment how PMO describes where you go to each carb and look for the highest idle.

Once that was done I did some runs to WOT at different air temps and just looked down and recorded the different AFR's. Then adjusted my main jets appropriately. I had gotten initial carb settings from somewhere that were close, I just needed to change my main jets in the end.

In some temps (typically cooler) it runs perfect. When a little warmer it has a few flat spots, but I think that's typical. I'm actually working on installing the X faktory throttle bodies soon, but if I had a dedicated track car they would be unnecessary.

Some helpful tips-

http://www.pmocarb.com/installation_print.htm

https://www.pmocarb.com/Images/Instructions-3.pdf

Posted by: stownsen914 Jul 3 2021, 06:14 AM

AFRs will be a great guide to tune. The basic process Justin mentions sounds about right.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 3 2021, 08:54 AM

Thanks, I’ve just been overthinking it. Haven’t had a chance to install my LM2 for logging. I’ll post graphs when I do…

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 12 2021, 02:39 PM

OK first graph, should be showing both left and right banks, but my LM2 was glitching and only recorded the right side bank. Regardless they're closely matched at the moment.

- Leaning out at higher RPMs
- Rich at cruise

I'll try a larger main jet and take another run...

Posted by: Justinp71 Jul 13 2021, 10:45 AM

AFR's probably go down when you shift from the extra pump on the acceleration pump circuit. Yes def need larger main jets, which makes sense for that beast of a motor. That will help make it feel like its not running out of breath on the high end. Looks as your cruise rpm came down to 4k then the idle afr came closer to 12:1 which afaik is as good as it gets for carbs. The problem with 3-4k cruise is the idle circuit and main circuit are typically both on for a smooth transition so cruise afr is always rich.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 18 2021, 12:17 PM

Increased Main jet from 140 to 150. Looks like that might have done the trick. Thoughts?



Current Carb Setup:

46 ida Italian Webers
Venturi/Choke: 42
Main Jet: 150
Air Correction: 170
Emulsion Tubes: F7
Idle Jet: 50

Posted by: Justinp71 Jul 19 2021, 11:56 AM

Cool, alot better What's the butt dyno's opinion on the new jetting? I'm surprised how lean the low end is, does it transition good from idle circuit to mains?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 19 2021, 08:23 PM

All in all she feels good, no transition issues or flat spots just pulls nice though 6500, I’m carrying a lot of speed and making a lot of noise at that point so I don’t venture any higher. I’ll be out at ca speedway in early aug, there will be a dyno, so I’m going to try and get her dynoed before it gets too hot out there.

Still working on hood pins to keep the hood down, but will be looking at alignment next…

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 24 2021, 06:52 PM

Can’t really tell you why it took a whole day to put 2 of these on…

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 30 2021, 09:54 PM

In for tech with younger brethren….



Headed to small Cars & Coffee tomorrow with a few buds, we’ll see what other hardware shows up…

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 3 2021, 09:17 AM

Cool! Making progress... it will be interesting to see how the next track day goes.

The 718 is cool, you probably have more cylinders than him!

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 4 2021, 11:34 PM

Favorite seat, Recaro SPG! I got it a hair lower and my arms a bit further from the steering wheel as I hoped. Also got some room putting the car in 2nd gear, old seat would touch shifter. All while still using stock sliders.

I know this seat is more comfortable than the Cobra, I was in and out of both seats several times, I couldn’t stand being in the Cobra more than 20 min or so. I fell asleep in the Recaro… a few times

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 4 2021, 11:44 PM

A few shots from C&C, sorry not much variety in shots, my buddy’s GTL and another’s speedster , both have new motors and we’re out for a quick test before loading up for Monterey Historics.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 4 2021, 11:45 PM

CA speedway in Fontana this weekend, let’s see if she’ll hit 150!

Anyone want to venture a guess on dyno numbers?

I’m going to say just under 200 at the wheels…

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 6 2021, 05:03 PM

Shoot you better be over 260hp, this 3.2 is what I modeled mine after and its 253hp at the wheels-

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/794830-3-0-3-2ss-pics-dyno-sheets-before-after.html

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 6 2021, 10:25 PM

Thanks, keeping my expectations low. I have no idea how she’s going to perform on the track. So much different feeling than my 930. I think it has alot to do with my alignment setup…. 930 is light and nimble, power delivery is an explosion though…. My narrow body race car (blue hood) felt very light , almost formula v light on 205s…. Was set up well. This car feels piggish… heavy, slow to rev (at least prior to last tune). I don’t like caymans pulling on me in the straights…. I’ll report back after first session….

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 8 2021, 09:32 AM

Glad to hear you like the Recaro SPGs - I just got a set as well, about to replace some really old Cobra Suzukas that I actually like quite a bit too but are well expired and grungy.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 8 2021, 10:07 PM

Fun weekend, learned a bit more about my car. The bad news is with the motor, as expected, way low on power, dyno’d at 164 hp/189 tq. to the wheels. This jives with the old dyno sheet I found in the PO stash.



Check out how early it makes torque, this explains how I was able to pull out of turn 9 hairpin at CA speedway in 3rd gear when everyone else was complaining about having to go down to 2nd.

Posted by: slivel Aug 9 2021, 11:00 AM

Looks like the mixture is getting very lean between 5500 and 6500.

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 10 2021, 02:45 PM

Dang you are missing like 100hp... Sorry to hear your track day was less than ideal.

I would start with a compression check and leak down check. Almost seems like it has an air restrictor plate in it. Seems like to me not much air volume is getting in the motor. Would make sense the cams are out of time, burned valves or cam going flat??? Maybe search on pelicanparts and rennlist to see what you can find there too. Maybe call one of the known porsche engine shops like supertec and see what they think.

Alot of low end torque and low hp points to me as large displacement with low lift, like it has a stock 2.0 cam (like the old chevy motors).

How were the motor temps?

How does it feel heavy? Lots of body roll? slow to turn in?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 10 2021, 11:54 PM

Justin, you are definitely in the right track. At the track I was able to pick the brain of an ex-andial engine builder. First thing he said was that there was a big restriction somewhere, gotta start looking at the heads. At the time I hadn’t realized I was making all that torque before 3500, but we did chat about the cam timing really only affecting at what rpm the tq hits (I know I’m simplifying and summarizing).

Going to start with what you mentioned and I’ll report back. I already have a private track day booked for oct, so she needs to be back in action by then, possibly just with torque curve moved to a usable rpm…

Temps were hot at the track, up to 107 on pavement per the dyno info. Engine ran a bit warm at 250, I need to shroud cooler.

She handled heavy, but I’m used to my old narrow body car, weights 400 lbs more too. No body roll but I think brakes are dragging again, need another good flush.

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 11 2021, 10:11 AM

I see a few pages back you already did a leak down with good results. Could do a compression check and compare the numbers to other builds? The high torq on the dyno does suggest you probably have decent compression.

Hmm... What is the case number? Maybe he re-used stock small port 80-83 3.0 heads and that is restricting flow? Still should be over 165 hp... It would be good to pull the intakes off and measure the intake ports when convenient so you can get all your motor specs.

Also I think a 964 cam may be a bit mild here, that is a popular mod on 3.0's with fuel injection pistons. Still think it would make more power though. You could also take off your valve covers and measure your lift with a dial caliper. Just make sure to adjust for the rocker ratio if measuring the valve. You could really gain some power with some new DC racing cams, assuming it does not have fuel injection pistons. http://www.drcamshafts.com/911profiles.htm.

I am running a DC40 cam much less lobe separation and more duration, you could do maybe a DC60 or even more??

Are you running merged exhaust pipes?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 15 2021, 10:27 PM

Ready for drop, ugh, had hoped to get a bit further this weekend than just draining oil…

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 16 2021, 05:58 PM

Btw, what oil do you like to run? I am thinking of trying VR1 next. I'm on Mobil 1 15-50 but I have a few wet spots on this brand new motor (I like it otherwise) wondering if they will go away with VR1.

What's your plan on the motor, going to go thru it some?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 16 2021, 06:08 PM

VR1 20/50 changed every other race. Motor runs a bit warm with it, although shrouding around cooler is non existent now. I’ll be changing that. I get some weeping around the rocker cover nuts, but not enough to drip.

I’m going to post up to the PP engine forum, see if anyone can help. In the meantime I plan on dropping engine, doing another leak down - should be fine, but easy enough to do when out (I forgot to do a compression test before I drained the oil). Also will measure lift, maybe see what cams are in there, then finally check cam timing. Cam timing should address the early torque, but I don’t think I’ll find 100 hp there unless one is way off. Earlier, somebody mentioned one cam my be 180 deg off, that would certainly be cause for such a big loss. Will also measure intake and exhaust ports. Get an idea of what is really in there.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 20 2021, 12:50 AM

Since everybody loves a dyno vid, here are the three dyno pulls from the sheet above:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXccX_duoEI

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 20 2021, 10:23 AM

What's interesting about your dyno is the horsepower is not going up at all between 3200 and 4500. You can see on this dyno of a 3.2 with bigger cams even on his first lean run in blue he gained alot of power here. Not sure what to make of it, but seems to point to something.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 20 2021, 07:31 PM

That is an interesting observation, if you look at my afr graphs I have a plunge (rich spike). During that rpm range, then it comes back into “good” fuel/air territory. Perhaps too much fuel during that period?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 21 2021, 10:40 AM

Here we go, posted to the bird engine build forum, here’s the link if anyone wants to follow.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/1100434-3-2-3-4-low-power-help-me-find-way.html#post11432437

Any comments still welcome here too!

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 23 2021, 10:49 AM

Cool, good place to post it. After building a few flat sixes I am curious as to what they/you find. Rennsport may be another place, not sure I don't go there too often.

Did you find much metal in the oil when you drained it? That could be a sign of a cam going flat, which could also make sense to me.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 23 2021, 03:55 PM

No metal, but need to cut open the filter still.

I had run the carbs dry, pass side died out about 20-30 sec before drivers side, so there’s some tuning lost there. Also exhaust color at ports/ primaries was a bit funny, middle cylinders (2&5) looked a bit washed, or maybe lean, gotta take a few pics and post.

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 24 2021, 09:40 AM

I like the comment on the bird about throttle maybe not open all the way? Have you checked that? I know a little late now...

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 24 2021, 11:10 AM

I’ve only checked it from the carb side, never by pressing the gas pedal… I can only dream that’s part of the issue. Although there is an aftermarket threaded stop at the accelerator pedal(much longer than stock) installed that has bugged me since day one, maybe it’s set incorrectly….

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 26 2021, 09:23 AM

Maybe step on the gas and measure how much the cable moves with a caliper, then bolt the trans back on, put on the linkage and move it that same a amount. Then check the carbs?

Or I guess just check the motor out best you can and throw it back in? Seems like you might aswell check the cam timing while it is out. Have you done that before? There is a good article on how to do it in Wayne's engine rebuild book. I guess also check the cam is not 180 off, amongst other things I am sure on your list.

It will be all smiles when you get it running full bore... .

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 27 2021, 08:03 AM

Been frustrated cause I haven’t had a chance to work on her. It’s looking like this sun I’ll have some time. As far as a 6, yes I have some hands on time with a few, I have most of the tools to work on them, done several head stud removal/repairs, so I am familiar with how to time the cams.

This engine out is a good time to check the valves from my last set, and verify a few parts. Might even get a borescope and take a look at the pistons.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 1 2021, 03:13 PM

Ok I'm back! Wow, that pelican thread escalated quickly, lots of good ideas, but then a few of the egos got in the way... regardless, I'm appreciative, and had two known engine builders chime in and offer advice outside of the thread. Most helpful was engine builder/engineer William Knight, nice guy in general, and he offered a great explanation of what he thinks the issue is, and the solution (larger carbs and larger headers to start).

The bird thread guided me to measure and confirm more of the pieces, but I soon came to realize that the PO work has been quite meticulous, and while the part selection and assembly has been well done, the combination was/is completely wrong. As we've all heard before from our own famous engine builder contributor "it's all in the combo". I'm a firm believer in that after this experience, expertise IS value!

Moving on, goal is the get the engine back in the car, get her tuned as well as I can with what I have right now, then slowly work on mods suggested as funds permit.

When funds available I'll be on the lookout for 50 PMOs and 1 3/4 headers... i think we have a few sources among us...

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 1 2021, 04:58 PM

Ya Knight Racing is who I consulted when I built my motor. I ended up buying new heads from him. The 3.2 I have is a rocket. I actually have more of an issue keeping it cooled down. I also don't like it getting over 230f on the track, I just feel like that is asking for more leaks.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 2 2021, 10:11 AM

Assuming you had a good experience with William? Sounds like you found the right combo for your car...???

What does your cooling look like? I'm hitting 250 at 100+deg track temps (Fontana in July). It cools back down quickly to 200-220 during a cooldown lap, but I have a med/large cooler up front with no shrouding, Willow in June it would heat up to 220 and hold.

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 2 2021, 11:04 PM

Yes I talked to him a lot on the phone during the build he was very helpful. I would say right combo yes, I never dyno'ed it but it screams. Definitely much more power than with the stock 3.0 (w/cams) that it was before and I used to think that was fast. I rarely can open it up on the street without feeling like I might go to jail . I've had some 400hp+ larger cars and it feels faster than those.

For reference I went from a mostly stock 3.0 (had mild cams, headers, weber 40 carbs) to a 3.2 (should have done 3.4) complete rebuild with DC40 cams, large port heads, 1 5/8" headers, Je pistons 9.55 :1 exactly (didn't want to go higher), 46 PMOs and one of the key items according to William was the magnaflow 2in 2out muffler. Exhaust configuration can have a decent impact on these motors I am told. He also recommended 1 3/4" headers but at that point I already had brand new 1 5/8" and they seemed to do well enough.

Only thing was when I got the heads from him one of the intake ports had been repaired and he didn't mention that. It seems to work fine, I was just surprised he hadn't said anything, its possible he had them boxed up on the shelf and forgot to mention it.

For cooling I have the stock GT cooler and shroud. Also have the stock engine cooler. On the street with a cooling fan never goes above 210f (even in 100f weather). At the track it will get up to 230f towards the end of a 15 min session (last time ambient temp was around 85f). I've done some cooling tweaking in hopes to get it down some (better airflow on cooler, wrapped the headers by the oil line, etc...). If I do alot more track in the future I will probably upgrade the cooling. Right now I have a more dedicated track car to beat up and mostly drive on the street.

I think if I remember right you can run up to 250f if you change the oil every track day, I did that with my 3.0 before rebuild and it just seemed like taking it that warm expands the metal more and creates more leaks down the road, but that's just my theory.

Posted by: stownsen914 Sep 4 2021, 07:26 AM

Glad you got good help on that thread. It was kinda interesting how that thread evolved! William is the man, sounds like you got good advice.

On the cooling, 250 is a little hot. I prefer closer to 200 which is achievable with a good size cooler and good airflow and ducting.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 4 2021, 09:43 AM

Thanks, and agreed! I didn’t like seeing that, the shrouding will be addressed before my next track day.

Dumb question, I was looking at gt-racing website for 1 3/4 headers, in the description they state 1 3/4 OD pipes, 42mm ID, is this true of all 1/34 headers - as measured from the OD? If so I need to remeasure mine, I might already have them….

https://www.gt-racing.com/porsche-914-european-racing-headers-for-914-6-3-4-3-8-liter-motors-part-914-6-134/

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 4 2021, 12:55 PM

Yes I believe all 1 3/4" headers are measured by OD. I know in general Tubing is measured by OD, piping is measured by ID. This is where I got my headers from-

https://www.msdsinc.com/exhaust.html

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 9 2021, 11:22 PM

No new updates, but maybe a few pics to stay relevant. Looking forward to getting some assembly time this weekend.

Made POC Aug Velocity Mag, we need more 914s out there!



Here’s a removal pic, how many 914s can you spot?

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 13 2021, 02:07 PM

Cool it made POC mag!

I see 2 914's, do I get a prize?

You get out there last weekend?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 13 2021, 06:16 PM

Ha, no prize for you, there are 3, if you zoom in on the light blue in front of the RR you’ll see a silver sail panel and Olympic blue a pillar….

I did get there, basically got it in the same condition as the pic, ready to reinstall.

I do need to source some bushings for the throttle pivot on the carb risers, would love copper bushings, but don’t know where to source. Any ideas?



Although, genius me didn’t measure the od of the pivot bar…

Posted by: campbellcj Sep 15 2021, 07:38 AM

I'm also inching along (way slower than you) towards getting back on the track - car is in the shop now for trans refresh and other odds and ends - look forward to hopefully seeing you out there soon. I'm not sure I can make Chuckwalla/POC but maybe.

I've noticed the aircooled 911s have largely been retired from track use as well as the 914s and it's kinda sad but understandable...

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 15 2021, 11:51 AM

Maybe that's your problem???? I probably have some I can send you, I will check tonight.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 15 2021, 11:26 PM

Thanks, I doubt it, but it certainly is not helping…

Posted by: stownsen914 Sep 16 2021, 05:25 AM

Try McMaster.com, look for flanged sleeve bearings.

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Sep 16 2021, 04:38 PM

Pretty easy part to make on a lathe - especially in a soft metal like copper or bronze. I've got a "Smithy" I make those sorts of things on. Do you have a neighbor / machinist? I'd be happy to knock some out if I had the dims, but I'm out of town through the weekend and there would be mail time..

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 17 2021, 09:11 AM

Sorry I have a bell crank but don't see any bushings, my throttle shaft is 8mm or 5/16"

Pelican has a nylon one if you can't find anything else-

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/91442321100.htm?pn=914-423-211-00-INT&SVSVSI=P914&DID=47656

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 17 2021, 10:51 AM

You should be able to get 250hp to the wheels with 46 PMOs and the 1 3/4" headers, not sure how much your header size now is holding you back.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 17 2021, 07:49 PM

If 1 3/4 is the old, then i think I already have them, I’m wondering if it is muffler corking some of that…. I’ll have the engine back in tomorrow, then I’ll start detailing my tuning here - I know there’s some on the table there. Then when funds allow, 50 PMOs tuning and some dyno time and I should be closer!

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 3 2021, 01:30 AM

As my 914world turns…

Motor is back in, I don’t know how this happens, but I’m not entirely happy with plug wire and my fat starter+ wire routing in the engine compartment. Too much rubbing with carb linkage, I’ll continue to sort that.

I actually got the carbs base tuned last week, but was super low on gas and started to notice my rock steady fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment was slowly falling off its preset 3.2 psi.

Headed over with a small can of gas today, found that the PO direct wired a low gas light to the battery, luckily I left a trickle charger on the battery, the light must’ve been on all week. Well, that’s 1 of 3 aux warning lights the PO installed that I now know it’s purpose. The other two are on the a pillar padding on the roll cage (one I believe is oil pressure, not sure what the last is for).

Figured it would be a good time to change the aftermarket fuel filter in the frunk. No real issues with that, also appeared really clean.

Put in my 2.5 gal of gas re-synced the carbs and took her for a quick spin to the gas station, was running well (similar to before), so I figured I’d take a quick jaunt through the canyon, maybe take a few pics….

About 1/2 way through the canyon I realized the carbs were now idling at 2200 rpm, sometimes 2500, so no pics, and headed straight back to the shop. Carbs may not have been fully warmed up when I synced them, I set linkage too long and causing the high idle. I also noticed my fuel pressure gauge was now showing about .25 psi, so I adjusted back to 3.2 - new filter???

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 10 2021, 01:28 AM

Well, 2 steps back this weekend, went this am hoping to get a couple of hrs dialing in advance on electromotive HPV-1 (I don’t think anyone looked up that acronym before going to print).

Went to start her up and no fuel pump buzz…

I traced back good wiring to the relay, so that leaves everything from the ignition switch to a manual switch on the dash that ultimately goes to the relay. I’ll be spending some time looking at wiring schematics to see what i can find.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 10 2021, 01:37 AM

On a side note, I’m getting a “ghost backfire” very so often. Car will have been driven, then put away. I usually shut off the fuel pump and let it run to help drain most of the gas out of the bowls.

When back at it a day or two later, today it had been a week, cold engine, I go to start it up, turn on the pump, let the bowls fill them I hit the pump the throttle a few times. When I switch on the ignition, anywhere from immediately to 10 or 15 secs later I’ll get what sounds like a single cylinder chuff. Today it was a medium/large backfire out the muffler. Am I getting a loose spark somewhere in there that seems to be causing this? Sometime I feel it happens (quietly) when the ignition is off and I put some fuel in the cylinder.

I haven’t quite tracked it down, but today it did it twice, fairly loud, and I was having fuel pump issues…

Any thoughts?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 17 2021, 12:35 AM

Eureka! Good day today, even though it was limited time in the shop. Got oil impregnated bushings from McMaster Carr, had to open them up slightly on the lathe, but they pressed in nicely, now I have smooth throttle action.


Also found my no start issue, fuel pump switched wire pulled from the back of the fuel panel, so after dismantling that I could see where it pulled, plugged it in, recrimped a few loose wires and put her all back. Tuning, finally, tomorrow!

Posted by: Justinp71 Oct 22 2021, 11:57 AM

Sounds like your making progress even with a few set backs...

So you fixed the ghost fire and low fuel pressure issue? If you don't have alot of fuel in the tank and start doing some twisties maybe there is some air in the fuel?

Let us know how the weekend goes.

Mines been on the lift for a couple months too, hoping to get my new wheel bearing today so I can get it on the ground this weekend. Hope to take it on a road test when the rain stops.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 24 2021, 01:06 AM

Tuned a bit, got her pretty rich, but I can tweak at the track. Took her for a shakedown….



Yes I got the pump and pressure issue resolved. During my tuning I noticed one of the ignition boards is not holding my advance…. Hmmm I’m sensing this is another part of my power loss…. I dialed in the best I could, I guess I’ll be looking for a new board…. Yikes, inching ever so closely to EFI…

Posted by: stownsen914 Oct 24 2021, 06:45 AM

Good find! If it's off by more than a couple degrees, for sure you'd see power loss. Especially if you've got upper and lower plugs firing at different times.

Posted by: Justinp71 Oct 25 2021, 11:48 AM

Looking good! Good find, it will be interesting to see what a difference that board makes.

Notice any difference in getting full throttle now?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 25 2021, 09:28 PM

It’s a bit better, but after my track day I may try to swap boards with the good one on the top plugs only, with nothing on bottom, see if it feels any better. If they truly are working against each other I should be able to tell.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 17 2021, 12:43 AM

A little sidebar, last week I went on a road trip with my best friend. He’s an avid historic racer, and has some really neat cars, one specifically, is near and dear to our hearts… but this story isn’t about that car…

My friend was invited to race at the Velocity Invitational at Laguna Seca (formerly held at Sonoma Raceway - Sears Point). He wanted to get up there early as practice started on Thursday. He chose a good little car that is now becoming one of his favorite road trip cars, a ‘74 Carrera. Nothing fancy, just a nice, driver+ quality car. We set out from the OC (Irvine) at 10 AM in this little dream, headed to Monterey:



The car was about to flip the odometer, we were going to do some photos/postings on the ‘gram when the odo/speedo stopped working a hundred or so miles from flipping back to zero…. Oh well, we had fun anyway…

Posted by: Justinp71 Nov 19 2021, 12:51 AM

Nice ride! My uncle has a 70 in white that I grew up with, has a strong 2.5L first time I drove that I was shocked at the instant power. We put the first 2.7L in my 914 while I was in high school!

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 30 2021, 10:56 PM

Very cool story Justin, man you were converting these little cars for a while now! Yes the heavy g body 911 was a little much for the 2.7 installed, but man that has got to be a hoot in a 914… someday I’ll have an RS spec t9 put 8n a 914…

I never posted any pics from the event, here are a couple I finnlyg got to upload on my almost full iPad:









Yes, those are 2 real 250 GTOs, there was a third one there too (white)

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 1 2021, 12:38 AM

Now for a quick update on my car. Spent some time messing with carbs, a little better here and there, but I think I need a colortune, as I still can’t “hear” the sweet spot. I’m considering a wholesale change, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2332 has a similar motor setup, but very different carb settings. I’m thinking of swapping to what he’s got (I have all the chokes and jets) and seeing what happens…???

I’ve also been playing with timing using my ever trusty 20 year old craftsman adjustable timing light. I was getting erratic readings when taken near coil or near plug. So I used a voltmeter on the electromotive board as suggested in the instructions. I think I got both banks firing at the correct timing. It certainly feels like she woke up a bit on top - although I’m only talking 10-20 hp or so…. Regardless, progress! I also bought another used HPV-1 board and coil in case one of mine is bad.

I’m messing with suspension now. Set up my smart strings and have a combined total of 1/4” toe out in front! That explains why she darts under hard braking, probably also explains why steering feels so heavy. I’ll get her adjusted this weekend, ahhhh I’m sensing the nimbleness of the 914 is about to come back…

Up next I think we”ll also take a look at a poor man’s cornerbalance…

Posted by: Van914 Dec 1 2021, 09:33 AM

I would like to know what the updated Carb setting are.
Thanks
Van

Posted by: BillJ Dec 1 2021, 02:30 PM

1/4" toe out is a bit much. For track car you want no more than an 1/8 " toe out or neutral. Toe in is not generally recommended for track only.

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 1 2021, 06:51 PM

Long time listener, first time caller...

Toe out will not cause a heavy feeling in the steering nor darting under breaking. It will cause the car to feel darty on the freeway and turn in FAST. With anything beyond 0mm toe out the car will want to tram line and follow any irregularity in the road. I run about 3mm toe out in the front on 15" wheels with a close ratio rack. It's a pain in the ass on the freeway. Caster on the other hand can make the steering feel heavy. That being said, I run as much caster as I can to help with camber gain while turning.

Darting under braking is likely either an imbalance in the suspension or brake system. Even when I ran 1/4" of toe out on my autocross car you could stand on the brakes without touching the steering wheel and it would stop straight (surface needs to be flat).

Posted by: Cracker Dec 1 2021, 08:09 PM

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 1 2021, 08:40 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3946 & @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 Thanks for the response guys, I’m a silent listener to both of you on anything you post, you guys have lots of track/course time to the max in these cars.

Fact is yes and yes, my car does track on every single variance on the road, it also turns in fast, if you’ve driven Willow Springs (before the new pavement) you’d understand why it darts under hard braking too. Caster is maxed, as is camber - I forget, but I think I got -1.8 at the front and -2 at the rear.

I’m sure you’ve seen my engine woes above, most of this is venting. Seems like the whole damn car just feels lethargic. I’ve been around 914s enough to know it just doesn’t feel right, and it’s not one thing that’s causing it. It’s got all the right cool kid parts, but it’s like none of them were finely tuned or even tuned at all.

Posted by: BillJ Dec 1 2021, 08:49 PM

-2 in the rear with all shims removed? I still have shims on the white car with some still to go. Around -2.2 at present with -1.25 in front. You will dial in what works for you over time.

Been DE and racing 914s for ~32 years.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 2 2021, 01:23 AM

Actually I misspoke above, rears measured out at -2, I was advised not to mess with it until some of thes other issues were resolved with the fronts.

Actually, I just reread above, and it clicked this time, lots of caster makes steering heavy… hmmmm, you just made something else click….

I gotta check something else on my front suspension this weekend…

Posted by: Justinp71 Dec 2 2021, 07:11 PM

Nice pics!

I did some winter tuning on my motor, it really likes to be rich at idle. Damn it pulls hard from 4-7k rpms ... and my daily has 400hp so.

You should get there, keep checking... Maybe you do have some sort of ignition problem. Carbs like quick advance timing, that woke my motor up when I first built it. Did you get your WOT afr's in the high 12's yet?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 5 2021, 11:57 AM

Yes, I wish there was a better way to check ignition. The board seems to show steady (when hooked up to multimeter) but am I getting the same at plug? I have experienced and have read several other threads suggest that timing lights have been unreliable at best - even the expensive ones.

I think I’ll try to hook the board up to my data logger, so I can at least see what it’s doing at what rpm when under load.

I did find a Porsche Indy (actually a race shop) in Whittier that has lots of experience with -6s, (carb tuning) and also has a dynojet at the shop. We chatted extensively, and looked at my dyno sheets and logs. I got some good suggestions for data gathering before spending $$$ on dyno. I won’t be able to get my car over to him till after the holidays…. When I stumbled upon his shop he was working on Vivian Campbell's (Def Leppard/Dio) IROC/RSR 911 tribute.

Still running rich at WOT, but I noticed the other day (ran car to the office) that I was running really lean (15s) at partial throttle uphill (about 4K rpm). Sometimes I think that afr gauge is a curse, being able to glance at it during a drive.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 5 2021, 10:28 PM

Good day today at the shop. Last drive last week I felt a single shutter in the front suspension, felt it once on the track too, couldn’t really put my finger on it except that it felt like the suspension was moving, yet I couldn’t see any evidence (I thought it was the shock mount at the top). Then while discussing caster above it dawned on me where the movement was occurring.

I set my front toe to 0 deg and took it for a drive today. Found that when I hit my brakes hard while in reverse, I’d get the shutter, then again if I hit the brakes hard moving forward. Back on the lift, sure enough, the a arms were sliding front to back. The PO had put on the infamous needle bearings, but appeared that the front mount was not pushed all the way back to prevent movement when tightened. Also found one of the front outer bearing mounts was backwards - I flipped it, took a clamp to the assembly and tightened all up. Put my strings back up and readjusted toe.

Hopefully there wasn’t a reason the mount was on backwards (like the needle bearings were installed backwards on this mount by accident….???

Gave me an opportunity to take the turbo out for a spin too:

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 31 2021, 10:15 PM

Happy NYE all, had my car at the house for the holidays, didn’t mess with it much. Except as I was chasing down sloppy throttle and clutch linkage, it revealed almost non existent pedal cluster bushings. Car came with a new set so this must’ve been on the POs list. I didn’t do a restore, just cleaned things up and put her all back in the car. Just need to put the cable back on trans side and put skid plate back under steering rack. This is so much easier on a lift….

Posted by: Justinp71 Jan 13 2022, 05:24 PM

Happy new year! Cool to see your still progressing. I installed a sport muffler over the holidays similar to what you have. Trying to tone down the start/idle sound and droning. Ended up be louder than the magnaflow . Also has probably ~25hp less or so, takes about another 1/2 second to get to 6k rpms in 3rd gear than before. I haven't found anything that beats the magnaflow in performance which aligns to the Knight racing recommendation on it.

Posted by: BillJ Jan 13 2022, 07:07 PM

Have enjoyed watching your progression with the car! Have been totally reworking my 6 too and just test fitted new seat tonight as well as new dash a buddy is starting to fab for me.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jan 13 2022, 11:39 PM

Track day Friday, the 28th, looking forward to that. I may pull my muffler and see what happens. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2922 what brand muffler did you get? Also, do you mind sharing your carb settings? I’m going to try some drastic changes just to see what they do. I bought a colortune for the initial carb setting, all took minor adjustments but found a few really rich (confirmed by plugs too). Got much better throttle response, so feeling more comfortable making changes. Also bought a hardwired datalogger so I can log a bit easier, the handheld one I have is glitchy, and would only log one bank, I want to see how both are performing together.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15610 your car looks great, I’ve still been struggling with livery, I like the look for the track, but I still run my car on the street. A big meatball and number is a little flashy… thinking of going back to ghost graphics (matte black over gloss black paint). Check your headroom with that seat mount. I got a little claustrophobic with a helmet on, but I also have a diagonal at the halo, so with padding my helmet would brush against it - I didn’t like that feeling. I ended up making an adaptor for the seat mount that allowed me to mount the set a bit lower than the tilted rails. It gave me that extra inch to feel comfortable, BTW I’m not tall, 5’8” (short legs, long torso). Still have to mess with the shifter, I have to lean forward to get into 1-3-5, so either need to bend and or extend the shifter.

Posted by: BillJ Jan 14 2022, 06:15 AM

Yep i did the test fit last night and felt good with no hitting anywhere so pretty happy about that. I have the pedal cluster coming from Brad Stone and PMB redid my calipers and sending new lines. New MC is prepped on the bench for when that all arrives. Will need to do final fitment when i put the pedals back in.

My car is only track so i dont get concerned on being subtle with it. Putting in some historic placements and brands but not really copying a particular car.

Anyway just wanted to say hi to my fellow black.6!

Posted by: Justinp71 Jan 14 2022, 12:13 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9463 So my motor is a 3.2 with DC40 cams. 9.5:1, enlarged heads, about 275hp is my guestimate based on a similar 3.2 I saw dynoed pulling about 250hp at the wheels (~290hp crank) it was just running slightly larger headers and intake ports.

my carb settings-

• 46mm PMO carbs, 38mm vents
• 160 mains (give 12.8-13.4 afr wot max, @68f air temp) , (170 mains give 12.0- 12.6 afr WOT)
• 190 air
• F11
• 55 or 60 idle, 1.76mm IAC

Its tuned to be rich at idle (like 11:1), otherwise the transition to the main jets isn't smooth. Probably could tune that out but plan to go ITB by the end of the year (have the kit already).

I normally run a magnaflow 2in 2 out muffler for best performance. I have Ben's sport muffler on at the moment it is a great muffler, but it had slightly less performance than the magnaflow. Looks more 914-6 gt original though.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jan 14 2022, 12:18 PM

Hey Bill how tall are you? I have been looking for a good 914 race seat solution that doesnt wack my head on the roof with a helmet on. I am 6' tall. So far the only thing I like is a stock 914 seat or I test fitted my kirkey 55 series 16" wide from my Exocet.

Posted by: BillJ Jan 14 2022, 02:27 PM

I am 6 ' and i had a few inches to spare. Was not bad at all. My upper roll bars curve tight along the roofline so that helps a lot. My seat is using side mounts bolted to 914 rails with custom adjuster bar acriss the front.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jan 14 2022, 03:28 PM

Thanks for the tips. Is it this seat-
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vms-96663369?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiA24SPBhB0EiwAjBgkhlBpkyN7rrZhqgND-VPxXoJhkMizxflhHRf5MTYnsw7Gxv9olSCDjBoCaewQAvD_BwE

Posted by: BillJ Jan 14 2022, 04:17 PM

Yes that is the one. Please buy from Bob @naroescape though. He is a member here.

https://naroescapemotorsports.com/

Posted by: infraredcalvin Feb 6 2022, 09:34 PM

No track time, but spending some time at the track with some heavy hitters.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 1 2022, 12:39 AM

Ugh, long time no post! Cars been running well, I’ve got a few projects ahead of finding my lost hp, one involves finishing the old race car and getting her sold - but that’s for another thread…

Working on a few projects to finally make the new one mine. Last week at Streets of Willow it got well into the mid to high 80s, we also had some long, 40 min sessions with only 20 min downtime between, so she was running a bit warm. The existing fan works well enough to keep her under or at 100 C (212 F) on the street with spirited driving on a 90 deg day. But with no shroud, and this ridiculous fan setup, it too much for the track.



The fan looks t be from an old large appliance, but it sits on the edge of the cooler, with about .5 to .75 inch gap between the cooler and the edges of the fan housing. It’s also larger than the surface area of the cooler.

I feel a couple of flush fitting spal 5.2 in fans would work and look much better. And with each pulling 342 cfm, I should get plenty of air sucked through the fan vs around it.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 5 2022, 09:08 AM

Old one out, two new ones in.



Just need to make and install a pigtail. The PO had wired the old fan to the rear defrost switch, no reason to change at this point.

Much cleaner (and lighter) set. Next comes shrouding….

Posted by: stownsen914 Jun 6 2022, 02:31 PM

For a track car, I'd argue that ducting, and making sure the hot air has an exit from the trunk, will be more effective than fans.

The main advantage for fans is in stop and go traffic on a hot day. Once you're moving, ducting air to the cooler will be a lot more effective.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 7 2022, 07:14 AM

Agree with you 100%, I still do drive the car on the street, but reducing the bulk of the fan will aid in my future shrouding plans. Also, all the tracks out here are technically in the desert, I’ve run Fontana in over 115 degree heat on the track, I like the extra measure of control for cool down.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 26 2022, 09:45 PM

I need to revitalize this thread, been messing around with the 930 and doing a little work on the old race car lately…

Yesterday I did The Distinguished Gentleman’s Drive in support of prostate cancer prevention and mens suicide prevention. I haven’t used the 930 much because of some bad oil leaks. But I did a valve adj (the new valve seals cured most of the major leaks) and an oil change, then preceded to drive a total of 250 miles in 85/90 degree weather over sat and sun. I’d say she ran like a champ… driver was a bit sweaty all dressed up though.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 26 2022, 09:49 PM

Aside from my buddy’s GT350, my 930 proved to be the big bad bully of the group, but there was a 912E in the group, he stayed towards the back of the pack…



Overall, it was a fun group, definitely needed a 914 in the group… maybe next year…

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 26 2022, 11:14 PM

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled content…

Last drive home on the uhaul trailer, my front spoiler broke off, I’ve been toying with going to a gt front valance and taking off the 5 inch? Rear spoiler from the deck lid.

Overall I’m looking for better top end speed to close the gap to the gt3s in the club. I’m headed to Chuckwalla raceway on the 7th…. Thoughts?

Also going to try no muffler. See if I feel any gains without. Pipes are about 10-12” short of the rear fascia, anyone see any problems with just running open vs getting some trumpets to extend beyond the fascia?

Posted by: stownsen914 Sep 27 2022, 07:25 AM

It's best to get a pair of trumpets. Without them you'd lose out on the scavenge effect of having a tailpipe after the collectors. Might even be worse than the muffler ...

18" is a good compromise length for the straight pipes.

Posted by: brant Sep 27 2022, 07:36 AM

The motors really like a cross over for torque

I Dyno’’d straight open pipes back to back with my current system and gained 14 ft lbs when the banks came together

Not sure you could see the difference without using a dyno
Seat of the pants…. Your brain will hear the noise difference, but only a dyno will measure it

Posted by: stownsen914 Sep 27 2022, 09:10 AM

True about the crossover. it can be a connecting pipe, or the merged, center exit GT3 style that everyone likes now. Or just bolt on the pipes to enjoy the noise

One other thing, open exhaust usually requires a small jet change to account for the freer flow. It's usually enough to keep it simple and just increase main jets 1-2 sizes.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 27 2022, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the confirmation on jets, I was ready for that. Was hoping to test out on the track, but without trumpets doesn’t sound too smart so I’ll wait…

Posted by: brant Sep 27 2022, 04:31 PM

I’ve got a pair of mega phones I need to sell soon


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 28 2022, 02:49 PM

Dammit, bunch of enablers here... LOL

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=47 just left you a pm...

OH and before i forget again, what's the opening at the flange side measure?

Posted by: brant Sep 28 2022, 02:59 PM

these have a 2 inch opening at the forward flange.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 28 2022, 04:35 PM

Thanks Brant!!!

Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 29 2022, 04:39 PM

Nice to see this thread revived!

I have not heard of anything outperforming the magnaflow 2in / 2 out muffler. Came recommended from knight racing. I tried Ben's sport muffler for looks and it clearly lost some power, so eventually I put the magnaflow back on. I think it gave me 20hp.

A pic I have handy from a 911. This 3.2 car made 253hp at the wheels and it only had DC40 cams.

I drove a high compression 3.0 car once with dual supertrapps. It was quick but not as fast as I would have thought, I think the supertraps slowed it down. I have heard of straight up mega phones ripping for power though.

Posted by: campbellcj Sep 29 2022, 07:19 PM

FWIW I've always run cookie-cutter type megaphones on track and my car seems to do very well with that setup but it was initially jetted/tuned for those. Would be interesting to test (dyno) an x-over open pipe setup like I've seen on some of the 911s.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 13 2022, 01:04 AM

Wow, I never felt that unprepared before. Saturday through Wednesday I was supposed to be prepping the car, organizing and packing tools and gear, then pre loading the car onto a trailer borrowed from a friend (first time). Didn’t get to do any of it, had a packed weekend and a list of honey dos before leaving. I took Thursday off in the hopes I could sleep in a bit, hook up the already loaded trailer and head to the track before traffic started.

Well Thursday was a bit of a cluster…. I woke up early to pack and left the house about 7 AM, halfway to the shop I realized I don’t pack my helmet… so back to the house (thankfully my shop is only 15 min away). I stopped to take a breath, checked all my gear once again to make sure I haven’t forgotten anything else.

I got to the shop, cleaned up the megaphones I got from Brant and installed them, started up, idle was ok, I was rich on the muffler, so idle basically got a bit leaner with the megaphones. No time (and nowhere) to test WOT so I loaded the car on the trailer only to realize the big box of hold-downs I had planned to use was nowhere to be found…. The only other car I had access to was my 930, so out she came, to be used as an errand car…

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 13 2022, 01:06 AM

Finally got on the road around 1:30ish, made it to the track by 5:30. This is a pic from Friday, but it shows Brant’s megaphones on the car…

Posted by: Justinp71 Oct 24 2022, 11:54 AM

Tracking can be so time consuming, but so much fun! So how did it do?

Posted by: stownsen914 Oct 29 2022, 09:25 AM

Love the look of the megaphones

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 30 2022, 12:33 AM

For the most part, car ran well. I started with putting 101 race gas in the tank and ran my first session with an eye on the afr gauge. At wot i kept seeing lean spikes into the 17/18s, after a few laps I brought her in for a main jet change.

46s we’re running 150 main jests, so I bumped up to 170s. I noticed a low rpm bog, but mid to high rpm were right on the 12s. So instead of fussing all day, I left it and ran it.

She ran nice and smooth all day, in the 100+ deg heat on track without a hitch until my 2nd to last session of the day. The low idle bog got worse, it seemed to drift into the low to mid rpm range. I checked fuel pressure and noticed I was only getting 1.5 psi, so I turned it up and got in a solid last few sessions. When I got back to the pits after my last run she was running funny, my fuel pressure was way back up. Adjusted back down to 3.5 and loaded her on the trailer for the ride home.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 30 2022, 12:34 AM

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 30 2022, 12:43 AM

At home I tried to prep for the “pop up headlight” themed C&C at PECLA, so I needed to put the muffler back on and jet back to 150. Got it all done then realized number 3 bowl was flooding. So now I need to figure that mess out…. Ahhh it never ends…

Posted by: Justinp71 Nov 1 2022, 10:34 AM

Well at least you got the car out, how was the power? Did you ever figure out your low power issue?

Sounds like the carb needs to be cleaned. Or maybe need new fuel filters?

Years ago when I had a very low amount of fuel in the tank I took off the gas tank lid then used a wet/dry vac to suck out all the debri from the gas tank bottom (recommended by a friend). Then installed 3 new filters (pump, engine compartment, carbs). Haven't gotten any plugs in the carbs since. I also went to PMO's about 6-7 years ago. I am probably due for another cleaning though... hope this helps.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 1 2022, 06:38 PM

Yes it was fun to get her out, power was better, still not solving my overall power issue. I need to measure compression and check the cam specs, I’m not doing that till my next engine out.

I just changed the filters, but I need to drain and check the tank bladder and foam, I’ll bet I’ve got foam falling apart.

Too many projects and too many hobbies!

Posted by: campbellcj Nov 2 2022, 07:32 AM

Can relate - I'm looking at some jetting changes now as well (new exhaust) and also have had plenty of issues with the fuel system & carbs - the tiniest bit of crud, foam, sealant, old gas...

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jan 13 2023, 01:17 AM

Credit where credit is due… haven’t driven her for 2 months, she fired right up, so went for a leisurely drive in the canyon…

https://youtu.be/dN5wTdLEDlw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN5wTdLEDlw

Posted by: Justinp71 Feb 3 2023, 12:52 PM

Looks like a nice road! Great benefit of being street legal is you can dust off the cob webs before the track!

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Feb 6 2023, 12:08 PM

Nice!
I'd love to be able to shake down my track car before all the logistics of hauling it to a track. But, alas, nowhere near legal. Fortunately my coaching positions give me free track time.
Your car sounds great.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 19 2023, 08:03 PM

Finally, first track day of the year this week! My friend got a provisional membership at The Thermal Club down past Palm Springs. We have a little vintage group heading out there Wed to run the track for the day Thursday. Finally got some new tires, R888Rs for the old girl. I was burning up 10 year old R888s I’m assuming were cycled out. I’m really curious to feel the difference. Did a quick alignment, wanted to bring the front toe out a hair more, I was previously running almost neutral.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 21 2023, 07:32 AM

She’s ready to go!



Locked and loaded!

Posted by: BillJ Mar 21 2023, 10:22 AM

Love your trailer! And blackmis an awesome color on these.cars. of course i am biased

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 21 2023, 01:04 PM

Thanks, the whole rig is a friends, the trailer is HUGE, I shouldn't need it this week, but I like having the power, shade and AC that comes with...

I'm still looking for an open trailer - wish that trailex in the classifieds with the green track car was closer...



As for black car, yes, I love it, it brings out the Darth Vader in me. Original color is light ivory, I’m torn with going back at some point, but that’s not for a while…

Posted by: BillJ Mar 21 2023, 02:07 PM

I.have EXACTLY the same scenario. Originally white now black.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 24 2023, 12:17 AM

Wow, The Thermal Club really lived up to the hype, had a great track day today!



We were the anomaly out there today, most of what they have is new hardware, we had a pre war sprint car, the Samson 911 RSR, 2 speedsters, a 356 abarth, a sunbeam tiger and my 914-6. Obviously Samson took the title for the fasted lap, but the 914-6 captured 2nd (with some coaxing from Samson)…


Attached File(s)
 trim.D1B1E0F9_CC93_43FE_86CB_DC80972FC8D3.MOV ( 981.92k ) Number of downloads: 64

Posted by: campbellcj Mar 25 2023, 07:35 AM

Congrats on a fun outing and I agree you've got a sweet truck/trailer rig! If I ever start tracking my car regularly again I'd love to get a small enclosed trailer. Have had my same old beater open one for 20 years now.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 26 2023, 05:46 PM

Not sure if I mentioned previously, but my wife and kids got me a Garmin Catalyst for Xmas, I took it out to Thermal with me for the first time… the track configuration we ran was not in the device, so I set up an new track and let the gps do its thing. I was getting data right away. While it’s not going to tell you where to shave seconds of your lap times, it does pick out the spots where you could shave off tenths. Below is my fastest lap, of course it was the one when I was being coaxed by Samson…. I was overdriving the car and missed several turn-ins and apexes, I was diving deep to try and shave distance between me and Samson…. The catalyst picked these up and identified them as “opportunities”… Cool gadget, I’ll keep messing with it, three’s more functions I haven’t even used.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwE8XTUApJ4

Posted by: Justinp71 Apr 6 2023, 11:59 PM

Cool! I just got a catalyst last year, they are great and super simple to use, love it. Seems like your 914 could beat that Samson with more practice, but I am sure just getting it out was a blast!

Posted by: Charles Freeborn Apr 11 2023, 09:24 AM

Looks like a fun track. Way out of my leaguel / budget...
The Catalyst is a neat unit. I've got several friends that run them. I'm still stuck in the AiM solo camp, as I have numerous friends that use them and we share data files that we can overlay to see where one of us is faster (or slower) than another in specific areas we want to work on. I think the Catalyst can do the same.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Apr 12 2023, 07:55 AM

Justin, yeah, not so sure about that, he’s holding back a bit, he runs a lap time about 5-6 sec fastener. He did say he was surprised I could keep up as well as I did. He’s also got big fat Avon slicks vs my r888rs, but yes there’s a few seconds there for me… hopefully next time I’ll be a bit closer..

Charles, for sure out of my budget too, nice to be a guest though! We were messing with the different functions, I like the real time feedback, it’s definately designed for the hobbyist/novice-intermediate track day enthusiast. I’m lucky to have been to a few racing schools and have access to some great coaches, anything the catalyst found I had already mentally picked up on, the difference between this lap and the optimal lap was less than a second, I was expecting it to find a few seconds…

I’m not knocking it, and I’d love to shave a sec off my lap times, but it’s only as good as the driver, and it does identify and help develop consistencies…