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Posted by: nine14cats Aug 23 2006, 10:44 AM

I have a Honda S2000 that I'm thinking of running in SCCA Regional AX's next year for the helluva it. I haven't read the rule book yet, but I'll either compete in a bone stock class or preferably in a class that allows Dot-R's and not much else or maybe with an adjustable swaybar.

Any of you guys run against S2000's? I know the don't have any torque, but they are a fun car. And I left foot brake, so I'll keep the engine up on the pipe....

Currently I only have a set of BBS 18" rims with SO3's on it. I will buy another set of rims and tires just for AX.

Another question would be tire/wheel combo preference. Do the SCCA guys go with 17's or 18's on the new iron? I'm leaning towards 17's since it gives a tad more sidewall for the car to have to work with.

Are they competitive in their classes?

Here's a pic of the car.

Thanks,

Bill P.




Attached image(s)

Posted by: grantsfo Aug 23 2006, 12:19 PM

Depending on course they can be very competitive in SCCA. They are AS class for stock cars. Unfortunately they run with Corvettes, Boxster S's, WRX Sti's etc. So if you get into HP course you can be at a little disadvantage, but you have a handling advantage. Top guy in our region in AS class runs an S2000. You have to shift like a maniac to stay on the cam so times can be all over the place if you miss a shift. I'm pretty sure they go with 17 wheels with Kuhmo 710's or Hoosier DOT R's in stock class but just check the S2K or SCCA forums on what they run.

www.baautox.com will have local people who compete with these cars. SCCA forums are good source of info as well.

At last LPR Marina event there was a well driven S2000 on a HP course on Kuhmo's. His car in fairly stock form beat my time by a couple hundreths of a second. There was a huge straight where he was on the cam the enite way and was moving much faster than my 165 HP could push me.

So yes you could be competitive if you drove the crap out of the car.

Posted by: 914forme Aug 23 2006, 12:28 PM

Yep they are a current top dog in the class, the Boxster S woould be the other choice. We have a Honda Factory car that shows up here, and it blows the doors off most the comp. The Boxster S is the only car that can keep up. The Vette drivers in my area are point and shoot sort of guys, the S2000 and Boxster drivers carry a lot more speed on run and that is what wins the spots.

Thou it is fun watching the Vettes try and keep up, Spin City, and not the TV show!

Posted by: AndrewBlyholder Aug 23 2006, 12:33 PM

Joe Hoppa runs his S2000 at a lot of our GGR autocrosses. Also Andy McKee and Theresa Nidel ran one for a while in SCCA. I don't have contact info or email addresses at hand, but I'll look for them and let you know.

For a while, the Boxsters and S2000s were very even in SCCA A stock, but I haven't been following them closely lately.

Should be fun!

Andrew

Posted by: Randal Aug 23 2006, 12:50 PM

That last statement is kind of a misnomer if your talking about Bill.

He's never driven a course where he didn't drive the crap out of the car.

I've had the pleasure watching him close, i.e., the right seat, and he doesn't leave much out there.

Posted by: grantsfo Aug 23 2006, 01:01 PM

Agreed, but S2000 requires just a little more. When I hear a fast S2000 driver I just chuckle. Nothing like keeping an engine above 6500+ RPM around every corner!

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 23 2006, 02:56 PM

The SCCA online rule book is pretty wordy...

If I put Kumho's or Hoosier Dot R's and maybe an adjustable front bar on the car, does that knock me out of AS class? They way I read it, I would be fine. But hell, I only read 2 pages of the 300+ pages in that .pdf file.....

I'm just looking at it as a way to keep working on the driving skills. My work schedule the rest of this year and next is going to have me traveling 1 to 2 weeks per month. I can go out Monday's and comeback Friday's, but that leaves little time to prep Fritz for an AX, so I'm thinking of another way to swap tires, drive to an AX (PCA, SCCA, etc) if I'm available and have the time, and play.

Besides, it would be cool to have ABS on an AX course!

Bill P.

Posted by: jhadler Aug 23 2006, 03:23 PM

The S2000 is a killer car for A-Stock. One of the top cars in the class right now. The S2000 is a great car for cone dodging, but it gets pretty twitchy at the limit. And you have to keep the engine wound out...

Fun car though...

What can you do and stay in Stock?

DOT-R tires
Adjustable shocks (2 adjusments max)
Any front sway bar
Any brake pad
Any exhaust from the cat back
Any alignment using factory specified and allowed methods (has to be in the factory manual or it doesn't count)

Go nuts Bill!!!! :-)

-Josh2

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 23 2006, 04:07 PM

Josh,

Thanks for translating SCCA speak!

I've been reading on some forums about the S2000 handling traits and it seems that several people state that you have to dial out the oversteer of the car on the track. I'll have to dig more into AX setups.

Looks like a 2nd set of rims, some Kumho's and an adjustable AR bar and I can have some fun....I may even run it for fun at PCA events next year. Due to the high cost of running Fritz at an AX ($34 a minute!) and running against Andrew Blyholder, Steve Nieslony and Randal's new car, I'm thinking Fritz will go into AX retirement at the end of this season. Track only for that cat....

Hmmm...Victoracers or V710's?

Bill P.

Posted by: jhadler Aug 23 2006, 04:55 PM

An eternal debate among many...

Easy though... Do you want to win? Or do you want to have fun on a budget?

If "win" is the answer, the V710. If "fun-on-a-budget" is the answer, Victoracer.

-Josh2

Posted by: nebreitling Aug 23 2006, 05:09 PM

Dang, Bill -- no more AX for Fritz? I was hoping to come out next year to watch Fritz compete with Steve, Andrew, and Randal! Four competitive cars all vying for TTOD!

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Aug 23 2006, 05:26 PM

Bill,
The car Grant was referring to at the LPR AX was Joe Hoppa.
He us running V710s on what appears to be aftermarket wheels... and he has an intake pipe and aftermarket exhaust. I don't know if he has made any suspension changes or not....probably has.

At the last long AX course at Marina, he beat me and a few others, but considering he has 240+ HP and I have like 90 I don't feel bad. He was shifting between 1st and 2nd about 15+ times on Trekkor's course.

But then again at the last GGR event at Alameda I beat him quite handily and I thought that was more of a HP course than Trekkors

Would be a fun car considering you are always revving the crap out of them to make them go= no low end torque....

What about the Beast?

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 23 2006, 05:40 PM

The Beast may be an interesting alternative to Fritz for Randal and I. Most of our conversations have been "hill climb oriented".....hoopa....hoopa....hoopa....

Actually, for me it's just prepping the cars....it's a pain to hook up the trailer, change tires from track to AX, all that stuff. For AX, it would be nice to drive the car to the event and back...minimum hassle.

Also, the Honda's engine sounds pretty cool when it's wound out!

Bill P.

Posted by: Dave-O Aug 23 2006, 05:54 PM

One quick thing to note. In the SCCA stock classes you can run any wheel you want. So long as it is the same diameter, width, and +/- 1/4" offset of the stock wheel. Also, if a larger wheel was a stand alone option (I have no idea with the S2000) on your car, you can use the larger size.

Howerver, I see a lot of fully prepped AS S2000's running stock rims, so they must be pretty cheap and light as stock class guys will use ANY advantage available.

On the rulebook. It is wordy and long, but they have a lot of cars and classes to cover. The mentality of the SCCA is that if it doesn't say it's allowed in the rulebook, you CAN'T do it. So be careful of things that may not make your car faster, but aren't mentioned in the rulebook.

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 23 2006, 06:10 PM

Thanks for the comments David.

My car is a 2003 and came with 16 inch rims and a 2000cc motor. In 2004, the cars came with 17 inch rims and also a 2200cc motor. In the SCCA book, they tend to lump all years together on some rules. I believe Joe Hoppa was running 17's on his 2003. But he may have been in ASP. Whole different ballgame there.

Bill P.

Posted by: byndbad914 Aug 23 2006, 06:57 PM

My friend at work (who just quit and moved to PA this weekend or I would have him chime in) sold his Miata and bought an S2000 because he liked to AX and said the car was great for it. He did mention what is already mentioned here - the car was a little scary at limit and likes to oversteer.

But you have Porsches, so you're used to that by now, right He held that car against the rev limiter just going to lunch - I am amazed how those things can live at 9K all the time. He also said keeping the rpm is very key to that car, as anyone that has one knows.

My friend works for Honda and borrows the S2000 every once in a while - I dig 'em and it seems like a fun car. He shifts it at rev limit too. Apparently that is just how you drive those things

Just how many cars do you have? for cryin' out loud

Posted by: Dave-O Aug 23 2006, 08:59 PM

Although all S2000's are lumped together in the classing, SCCA stock class does not allow updating/backdating of parts (I believe they used to a number of years ago). Looking at the A6 Hoosiers, I don't really see any advantage to running 17" rims over 16" rims (besides the fact that you already have them).

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Hoosier&model=A6&tirePageLocQty=

FYI, I'm pretty jealous of your situation. I would love to jump into a fully prepared "top car". It leaves you with no excuses. Also, AS is one of the most competitive classes at the national level. For the best AX experience of your life you should make the trip to Topeka in September for the SCCA National Championships. I can't go this year because of school but I plan on making the trip in a couple years.

Posted by: nine14cats Aug 23 2006, 09:04 PM

In no particular order:

1999 Chevy Suburban (tow vehicle and snowboarding bus)
2002 BMW 525i (wife's car)
1975 914 V8 (JLO)
1973 914 3.6 (The Beast)
2003 Honda S2000 (my commuter vehicle)
1977 Ford F150 pickup (gotta have something to haul trash to the dump)
1980 911 (Fritz)
1929 Dodge Brothers Victory 6 (Competely restored except for paint and upholstery)
2002 Kawasaki Mean Streak (1500 cc's of cruisin fun)
1997 Suzuki RM250 MX bike (rightside up forks, last of the breed)

Whoa.....luckily my dad drives the pickup and keeps it at his house and stores the Dodge, otherwise I'd need to build a 2nd garage!

Bill P.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Aug 23 2006, 09:40 PM

S2000 "the new Miata"
They are damn fast but the driver better be equally as fast. Don't let the inherent loose condition scare you. "Just feel the power of the force"
My good friend can throttle lift over steer quicker than possible for mere mortals like me.

DOT R tires are really required to get everything out of the car. 710 or A6 end of story.

Oh yea I've been chasing this guy for two years. now that I am under a second behind him and sometimes quicker on the right course He freaking moves to Dallas.