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914World.com _ The Paddock _ GGR Alameda AX#7 course map
Posted by: nine14cats Sep 7 2006, 03:13 PM
Here's the course map of Saturday's GGR AX#7. As long as it isn't turned into a mini representation of the course and they keep it spread, it looks like it could flow.
I hope they make this one long and use the real estate.
Bill P.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Randal Sep 7 2006, 03:29 PM
Here's the course map of Saturday's GGR AX#7. As long as it isn't turned into a mini representation of the course and they keep it spread, it looks like it could flow.
I hope they make this one long and use the real estate.
Bill P.
Didn't they tell you it was based upon the minimum width, i.e., 20'?
Just kidding.
There are almost 30 corners so anything that corners will have a huge advantage.
Some of the worker positions are unsafe.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 7 2006, 06:14 PM
I count at least 35 changes of direction....looks like a 914 course to me 
I don't think Fritz is going to like all of that turning stuff Bill. 
As said, it all depends on how big they make it and how widely the slalom cones are spaced. The last one I attended at Marina (#5 IIRC) the cones on th slalom were wide enough I was taking them in 3rd gear flat to the floor all the way through. 
Me likey slaloms 
Posted by: Randal Sep 7 2006, 06:19 PM
I count at least 35 changes of direction....looks like a 914 course to me
I don't think Fritz is going to like all of that turning stuff Bill.
As said, it all depends on how big they make it and how widely the slalom cones are spaced. The last one I attended at Marina (#5 IIRC) the cones on th slalom were wide enough I was taking them in 3rd gear flat to the floor all the way through.
Me likey slaloms
Has to be 35 to 40 feet wide.... But then only the set up crew knows for sure.
I originally thought it was counter clockwise, but clockwise... Oh BOY!
But please someone change those dangerous worker positions (1/2/5/7).
Posted by: trekkor Sep 7 2006, 06:35 PM
Celebration starts now. 
KT
Posted by: grantsfo Sep 7 2006, 07:04 PM
Nice looks like a good 914 course. Wish there were fewer slalom cones - flow will be funky through the 4 cone slaloms.
Posted by: Rough_Rider Sep 7 2006, 07:29 PM
Nice course, but i have to ask isn't this unfair for the folks who get to see the course in advance?
Posted by: Randal Sep 7 2006, 08:18 PM
Nice course, but i have to ask isn't this unfair for the folks who get to see the course in advance?
There is no rule on this.
When I finish a course design and send it to the Autox chairs - I also feel free to publish the course.
Randal Barrick
Posted by: trekkor Sep 7 2006, 10:16 PM
914 secret society at work
Slalom is left, right, left entry me thinks.
Seeing the course map is always fun, I've shown all four of mine in advance.
But, really, you never even have a clue until you walk the thing in person.
This course, if layed out, lined and coned well should be one of the best we've ever seen.
And... When you hear me shift into third past worker station 4 and then heel/toe back into second at 2 on my new megaphones I'm expecting big cheers!!
KT
Posted by: nine14cats Sep 7 2006, 10:48 PM
The course arrows say that it is counter clockwise. Also, the course has been posted on the GGR website, so it's fair game to anyone that wants it. I just happenned to post it here on the 914Club site.
Randal, since you're working tech, make sure it's wide enough for Fritz to get through full throttle! 
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 7 2006, 10:56 PM
My vote is for Right, right, left. 
I will be out kicking some cones out during setup....Bill Dally usually wants me to check specs and make sure we are safe from poles, fences, other cars, etc.
Posted by: grantsfo Sep 8 2006, 09:01 AM
My vote is for Right, right, left.
I will be out kicking some cones out during setup....Bill Dally usually wants me to check specs and make sure we are safe from poles, fences, other cars, etc.
I'm thinking the same right, right, left.
Posted by: Randal Sep 8 2006, 09:04 AM
My vote is for Right, right, left.
I will be out kicking some cones out during setup....Bill Dally usually wants me to check specs and make sure we are safe from poles, fences, other cars, etc.
And your job goes beyond that. You need to check for DSDing, making sure the course is wide enough.
right right left.
Posted by: nine14cats Sep 8 2006, 10:36 AM
If the cones are truly staggered like the map, I'd probably say right, right, left. If they end up being straight in-line, I'll try it both ways and see.
Randal,
The course was designed by Paul Smith. I don't know who that is.
Bill P.
Posted by: J P Stein Sep 8 2006, 11:34 AM
right,left,left.
Posted by: Randal Sep 8 2006, 12:39 PM
right,left,left.
The middle one might well be left, but it will depend upon the final set up.
If there is enough room in the box the faster line might be a sweeper as opposed to taking the shortest distance. But the issue now is that the entrance is below 20', if you use the scale provided.
Have to SEE it first to tell.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 8 2006, 12:55 PM
right,left,left.
The middle one might well be left, but it will depend upon the final set up.
If there is enough room in the box the faster line might be a sweeper as opposed to taking the shortest distance. But the issue now is that the entrance is below 20', if you use the scale provided.
Have to SEE it first to tell.
BILL,
Paul Smith I believe drives either an SC or a Carrera vintage car.
Randal,
regardless of the scale of the drawing the minimum width of any straight is 20' and the inside radius of any corner must be a minimum of 25'. If the course is not set up correctly then it will need to be changed before runs start. That is why I walk the course as it is being set up, even if I am not on setup, so I can either let the folks know, or change it myself.
If it isn't to minimum specs then it should be protested...
before we start.Posted by: Randal Sep 8 2006, 01:20 PM
right,left,left.
The middle one might well be left, but it will depend upon the final set up.
If there is enough room in the box the faster line might be a sweeper as opposed to taking the shortest distance. But the issue now is that the entrance is below 20', if you use the scale provided.
Have to SEE it first to tell.
BILL,
Paul Smith I believe drives either an SC or a Carrera vintage car.
Randal,
regardless of the scale of the drawing the minimum width of any straight is 20' and the inside radius of any corner must be a minimum of 25'. If the course is not set up correctly then it will need to be changed before runs start. That is why I walk the course as it is being set up, even if I am not on setup, so I can either let the folks know, or change it myself.
If it isn't to minimum specs then it should be protested...
before we start.
I also hope you'll be looking at those worker positions.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 8 2006, 04:04 PM
Here's my suggestion for course workers
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: grantsfo Sep 8 2006, 04:34 PM
Here's my suggestion for course workers
Yeah that looks safer
Posted by: Randal Sep 8 2006, 04:35 PM
Here's my suggestion for course workers
That looks good Dan, although I'd move 1 another 50 feet West.
On the old map 1 was dangerous, from both ways, 2 was totally crazy, especially on that high speed section. Where you moved 3, 5 and 7 are also good.
Nice work.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 8 2006, 04:48 PM
Thanks, now to convince the powers that be. I'll talk to BillD tomorrow morning and let him know about a few things.
Posted by: J P Stein Sep 8 2006, 05:31 PM
right,left,left.
The middle one might well be left, but it will depend upon the final set up.
If there is enough room in the box the faster line might be a sweeper as opposed to taking the shortest distance. But the issue now is that the entrance is below 20', if you use the scale provided.
Have to SEE it first to tell.
True......all the exits are about the same except the 2nd which appears to require some heavy braking regardless of exit side. In fast, out slow there, me thinks.
Posted by: Randal Sep 11 2006, 05:55 PM
I thought Adam's course was very well designed.
In reality the speed monitors (SM's) got involved after it was set up to make major changes, i.e., the reason given being to slow it down.
When driving the right hand side in the AM I never saw the shift light (set at 6K), so we weren't going over 70mph; of course I was off the course more than on.
Good thing we changed those worker positions Dan. 
In the PM session Bill and I decided to just get around without any fanfare, given the condition of the tires, but (highlight) coming back towards the finish line I did shift into third so we were making a little speed before the "JOG" that was put in to slow everyone down.
That was a really beautiful straight before the SM's changed it. It would have been fun to run.....
My major concern is that the Corvette guys who were out there testing Alameda will secure the venue then run courses that are way faster than safe.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 11 2006, 06:17 PM
My concern is that we will have more competition for the site. This is what happened with our GGR TT series. We used to be one of only a very few clubs using big tracks. Now those groups are a dime a dozen.
I don't want to see the same thing happen to our AX sites. Marina and Alameda are great sites and Marina already has quite a bit of pressure for dates from many clubs.
Don't want to see the same happen at Alameda. Hopefully we will still get to pick our dates since we were among the first.
From what I saw the Vette club will run a straight down to the end, then slowly make a 180 and then a straight back to the finish line 
They should have sent some guys that could drive those "plastic fantastics"
Posted by: grantsfo Sep 11 2006, 06:31 PM
My concern is that we will have more competition for the site. This is what happened with our GGR TT series. We used to be one of only a very few clubs using big tracks. Now those groups are a dime a dozen.
I don't want to see the same thing happen to our AX sites. Marina and Alameda are great sites and Marina already has quite a bit of pressure for dates from many clubs.
Don't want to see the same happen at Alameda. Hopefully we will still get to pick our dates since we were among the first.
From what I saw the Vette club will run a straight down to the end, then slowly make a 180 and then a straight back to the finish line
They should have sent some guys that could drive those "plastic fantastics"
Given how narrow and tight the course was I can understand why the Vettes had a hard time. A few corners had me groaning to get the car turned I can only imagine what a big long Vette felt like in those tight corners. Those Vette guys got full treat to a typical Alameda course.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 11 2006, 06:41 PM
Gee Grant, I did not feel the course was all that tight or narrow this time...
Now compared to what LPR does at Marina then you might consider it tight & narrow. But compared to a couple of the last GGR courses, I thought this one was a definite improvement in that area. But maybe it is just my narrow car
your car sure looks good on course....sounds good up in the revs too
Posted by: trekkor Sep 11 2006, 06:53 PM
[qoute]Slalom is left, right, left entry me thinks.[/quote]
This was the fastest way for me.
What did you guys find?
KT
Posted by: trekkor Sep 11 2006, 06:56 PM
The only two tight spots that gave me trouble were the turn right before the start and the second slolam entry out of the hairpin turnaround.
Other than that, "hey, hey"!!
KT
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Sep 11 2006, 07:05 PM
[quote name='trekkor' date='Sep 11 2006, 05:53 PM' post='769283']
[qoute]Slalom is left, right, left entry me thinks.[/quote]
This was the fastest way for me.
What did you guys find?
KT
[/quote]
I finally went left, left, left and that was my fastest time.
for some reason I had a tough time getting a read on that course. Took my about 5 runs just to feel comfortable for some reason.... 
Anyway, once I got it memorized then it flowed pretty nice. I was in 3rd gear going into the first slalom, downshift to second coming into the hairpin, through second slalom back into 3rd half way through 3rd slalom all the way until the last left hander before the finish....worked pretty well.
Posted by: Randal Sep 11 2006, 07:18 PM
The only two tight spots that gave me trouble were the turn right before the start and the second slolam entry out of the hairpin turnaround.
Other than that, "hey, hey"!!
KT
Left, right, left was the fast way for me. Very different than the map.
I didn't think the course was tight - other than the hairpin which you had to be watching through your drivers window or you didn't make the turn in Bill's car. Those last two cones out of the box on the right would get you every time.
Our issue wasn't a tight course, it was tired tieess.
Oh and that damn pesky cone at the first right following the start that I kept hitting. I think Bill's car is two feet wider than mine.
And as to Dan's comments about the Corvette Club -
The problem is that they will run it exactly like you said until someone goes off at high speed and blips a CW.
Posted by: Randal Sep 11 2006, 07:20 PM
My concern is that we will have more competition for the site. This is what happened with our GGR TT series. We used to be one of only a very few clubs using big tracks. Now those groups are a dime a dozen.
I don't want to see the same thing happen to our AX sites. Marina and Alameda are great sites and Marina already has quite a bit of pressure for dates from many clubs.
Don't want to see the same happen at Alameda. Hopefully we will still get to pick our dates since we were among the first.
From what I saw the Vette club will run a straight down to the end, then slowly make a 180 and then a straight back to the finish line
They should have sent some guys that could drive those "plastic fantastics"
Given how narrow and tight the course was I can understand why the Vettes had a hard time. A few corners had me groaning to get the car turned I can only imagine what a big long Vette felt like in those tight corners. Those Vette guys got full treat to a typical Alameda course.
BTW Grant, that little blue bomber of your really scoots and no question it handles.
Nice job on the build.
Posted by: grantsfo Sep 11 2006, 10:32 PM
My concern is that we will have more competition for the site. This is what happened with our GGR TT series. We used to be one of only a very few clubs using big tracks. Now those groups are a dime a dozen.
I don't want to see the same thing happen to our AX sites. Marina and Alameda are great sites and Marina already has quite a bit of pressure for dates from many clubs.
Don't want to see the same happen at Alameda. Hopefully we will still get to pick our dates since we were among the first.
From what I saw the Vette club will run a straight down to the end, then slowly make a 180 and then a straight back to the finish line
They should have sent some guys that could drive those "plastic fantastics"
Given how narrow and tight the course was I can understand why the Vettes had a hard time. A few corners had me groaning to get the car turned I can only imagine what a big long Vette felt like in those tight corners. Those Vette guys got full treat to a typical Alameda course.
BTW Grant, that little blue bomber of your really scoots and no question it handles.
Nice job on the build.
Thanks again for the tips on your ride along with me. I have been fairly surprised at how well the car moves too! I just need to work on the most important component now, my driving.
Posted by: trekkor Sep 11 2006, 10:47 PM
Ah-ha, "the nut behind the wheel"?
I heard and tried left,left,left.
It was just to hard for me to give up speed out of the hairpin to make that second slalom entry left.
Letting the car drift right and entering right was more natural for me and yielded the better time.
KT
Posted by: Randal Sep 12 2006, 09:23 AM
Ah-ha, "the nut behind the wheel"?
I heard and tried left,left,left.
It was just to hard for me to give up speed out of the hairpin to make that second slalom entry left.
Letting the car drift right and entering right was more natural for me and yielded the better time.
KT
Hairpin is right. Who ever set it up didn't follow the map. There were two or three cones plated at 90 degrees to the exit (right side) that resulted in a huge left as opposed to a straight exit.
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