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914World.com _ The Paddock _ The Official Spec Boxster Build
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 09:16 AM
Let the build begin!
The work crew begins to show up....
McMark, Brad and Randal looking at Randal's clean 944.
Bill P.
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 09:17 AM
Doris cooking breakfast for the crew....
Fritz has dual distributors...Doris has dual frying pans!
Bill P.
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 09:20 AM
SirAndy has arrived!
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 09:53 AM
Dan (Almaden Valley) shows up....
Bill P.
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Posted by: trekkor Oct 21 2006, 09:55 AM
This will be fun to watch.
Have a good build! 
KT
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 21 2006, 10:46 AM
Go team go! This will be great!
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 21 2006, 01:14 PM
Good thing there's a couple of young guys there to do the work while the old farts reminiss. 
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:05 PM
1st update....
Here we go with pics....not alot of verbage...
Enjoy!
Bill P.
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:06 PM
more
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:08 PM
more
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:10 PM
more...more...more...
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:11 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:14 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:16 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:18 PM
some more...
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:19 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:22 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:24 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:25 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:27 PM
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 21 2006, 03:29 PM
It is now 2:24pm PST. We started at 9:00am....
Front suspension and new brakes/rotors in.
Front and Swaybars in.
Car gutted.
One door gutted.
Now starting on the 2nd door, the dash and the rear suspension.
We are shooting for a test drive at 5:30pm to bed the brakes.
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 21 2006, 04:22 PM
great progress 
KT
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 21 2006, 04:41 PM
FUN!!
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 21 2006, 05:05 PM
making good progress!
keep at it![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: So.Cal.914 Oct 21 2006, 05:10 PM
Parts, parts, parts, does it get any better? Yes.... when it's my car.
To Cool.
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 21 2006, 06:08 PM
Great work guys! This is more fun watching than I thought it would be.
Posted by: 914forme Oct 21 2006, 06:51 PM
So you guys kicked my butt today, but it was 1 vs. 5-6-7????? Oh well maybe I need a build team also. Unfortunately, all my friends are into american muscles, and punk. the Punkers can't turn a wrench to save their souls, and the American car guys won't touch my car. Though I have converted one over to BMW M-Power, but thats another story.
Great Job, good luck with the test drive. BTW, I have a parts guard dog also.
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Posted by: sww914 Oct 21 2006, 09:12 PM
With friends like that, who needs relatives?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 21 2006, 09:31 PM
I was there until about 5pm....unfortunately other duties called.
Had a great time Randal and I handled most of the suspension and brake removal/install.
Actually went fairly well....finding the right tools when you needed them was the biggest time user.
Andy, McMark and Brad handled most of the interior/top removal.
It was extremely interesting to see the inner workings of a Boxster up close and personal...
now to get Doris comfortable behind the wheel.....time to put on my instructor hat 
Posted by: trekkor Oct 21 2006, 10:58 PM
Did it get driven?
KT
Posted by: 914forme Oct 21 2006, 11:25 PM
One of three things happened.
1. It got driven, and broke down, 2 miles from home. They all piled in, like a clown car, and are now pushing it back.
2. It never got driven, cause by now they have passed out from all the off gassing from the plastic.
3. It is still being driven like a bunch a kids and their first gokart at christmas time!!!!!
Yeah I am still waiting for the update also.
I have done both 1 and 3, 2 was a bunch of 
I made up. Probably due to the paint stripper off gassing, and it being late here in the midwest, which is really , not so mid, and more eastern. But I digress......
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 12:06 AM
Don't know....either. When I left Randal and Bill had gone to the machine shop to have a couple of colars for the PSS9s machined to fit the smaller diameter heavier springs on the rear suspension....
Once they got those done it should have been a pretty easy reassemble of the rear suspension and brakes....everything was ready.
I am sure they got busy trying to finish things up and just haven't had time to post.
Even with the full gutting of the interior and the dash...the motor still started and ran, so I don't think they should have been having a problem with electrical... 
I am sure either Bill or Brad will post once they get a chance...
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:16 AM
Here's a few more pics of what we have done so far....
Bill P.
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:17 AM
and ....
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:19 AM
Ira from Tarett Engineering really has nice stuff...
Check out the rear AR bar and toe link...a twist of the wrench to re-adjust from track to AX settings...
Beautiful!
Bill P.
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:21 AM
and more pics of the carnage..
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:22 AM
and just a few more of the exterior...
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:25 AM
And now for the not so hot news....
I screwed up in my undertanding of what was needed from the race shop in LA that I bought a few of the trick suspension parts from. It appears we needed to leave out the tender springs on the car....it's a beautiful Boxster 4X4!
So....
Today we get to R&R the springs ONE MORE TIME!
Here's the pics of the rear and front suspension where you can see that the tender springs combined with the very stiff Eibach's leave little room for adjustment in ride height.
Bill P.
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Posted by: SirAndy Oct 22 2006, 12:52 PM
bill, you left out the most important part!
we already *DROVE* the car around the block last night, 11:30ish ...
Andy
Posted by: nebreitling Oct 22 2006, 01:33 PM
unbelievable work, gentlemen...
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 03:07 PM
Spec Boxster build is DONE @ 1:30pm Sunday!
We've been busting the car around the back streets....all I can say is.....WOW!
The car looks good and the handling is neutral. Brad remembered talking recently to a Porsche technician who had come up with a way to access the struts without taking the entire suspension assembly apart. We were able to have the fronts swapped in a little over an hour and the whole car swapped in 3 hours. It took fiddling with the ride height to get it dialed in for about another hour or so, but after that it was back together.
All I can say is:
THANK YOU to the Spec Boxster build team:
McMark
SirAndy
Brad
Dan (Almaden Valley)
Randal
Special Guest Ken J. from the Boxster Racing Board (unofficial photographer)
Pics to follow.....
Bill P.
P.S. This was an amazing learning experience. The adjustability of the components allows for some pretty sophisticated setups if we choose to do so. The amount of work done from 9am Saturday through 1:30pm Sunday was fantastic. This would have been a very long car build at a race shop. We did it in 28 hours.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 03:26 PM
Meet "Lucille"....
The 914Club's red-headed step child (she's mid-engined!)
Bill P.
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 03:27 PM
Brad gives the thumbs up!
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 03:29 PM
Can you say....."negative camber"..... 
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 03:31 PM
Interior pic...
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 03:35 PM
Next up I drop the car with Tony at TCDesign tomorrow morning for a custom cage. We pick up Lucille on Thursday evening.
Friday (10/27) she gets the windshield installed and a 4 wheel alignment.
Friday night (10/27) I assemble the racing harnesses and re-install the dash.
Saturday (10/28) we take out Lucille to her maiden AX at GGR#9 at Alameda.
450lbs springs in the Front and 500 springs in the back. Front and rear adjustable swaybars. Bilstein PSS9's. Adjustable rear tow links.
We will be playing with the setups at the AX.
Bill P.
Posted by: McMark Oct 22 2006, 04:45 PM
What an awesome time! Thanks for your hospitality Bill. I had so much fun and learned a ton. Hmmmm..... 
Boxsters are pretty fun. 
Posted by: Randal Oct 22 2006, 04:56 PM
What an awesome time! Thanks for your hospitality Bill. I had so much fun and learned a ton. Hmmmm.....
Boxsters are pretty fun. Thanks again Bill for giving us a place to get really dirty.
That little car really HANDLES now and it doesn't even have a cage.
Should be fun.
Randal
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 05:53 PM
Glad to see you guys were able to get the rest of things completed.
I am looking forward to seeing the car in action next weekend.
Bill, is Doris coming along for a little seat time, or are you and Randal going to do some tweaking first?
Had a great time yesterday with you all.
Brad it was nice to touch bases with you again.
Mark and Andy it was nice meeting you both and working with you.
Mark swings a nasty plasma cutter
And Andy loves to take things apart
And Randal.....well Randal spent a lot of time on his back............under the car getting really dirty. 
In all seriousness...this was an interesting weekend. It was great working with all of you....
And Bill, thanks for supplying all those expensive parts for us to play with
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 22 2006, 08:08 PM
I am beat up from the feet up!!
Plane leaves SJ 8:20. I'll post more tonight if I dont pass out from the airport to my place in SD.
This weekend reminded me why I enjoyed working with Andy and Mark so much in the past on 914's. Andy loves the electrical and "instricate" things of cars and Mark enjoys cutting/fabbing.
I had a blast! I'm really glad we had the team we did.
Special thanks to Randal for putting up with me!! I ride him like a cheap pony and he just keeps coming back for more (and believing in me) I like him a lot. Very smart person!
Dan, it was a pleasure working with you also!! I have some "better" tricks up my sleave when it comes to suspension (Bill eluded to it) It took me reading one line of the factory manuels to understand why we fought the front and rear shocks!! One bolt held us up I didnt make the mistake on Sunday.
WOW Bill!! How about that? Have you seen that many wrenches flying in awhile?
I may ask you to "recommend" me to others when they think they are going to build a Boxster Spec car!!
B
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 22 2006, 08:34 PM
excellent job guys!
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 22 2006, 09:21 PM
Flight is delayed, so I thought I would check the BBS!!..
Jeroen, you missed out 
We had our hands full yesteday! A ton of work was performed. Today was just "cleanup" as far as I'm concerned..LOL (Bill will disagree)
It is SOO nice working on late model tubs/cars. Everything is snap together plastic. Most of the electrical connections have positive locking devices.
I about shit when I arrived and saw that the car had the full leather interior option!!! ha ha.. Poor Dan was frothing over the leather dash!!
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 22 2006, 09:28 PM
Andy,
can you meet up with Bill Friday night and help him with the dash install?? and electrical?? I'm not sure if your are available but he could sure use some help
Bill was out "running" for us when you and I removed the dash.
B
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 09:31 PM
Flight is delayed, so I thought I would check the BBS!!..
Jeroen, you missed out
We had our hands full yesteday! A ton of work was performed. Today was just "cleanup" as far as I'm concerned..LOL (Bill will disagree)
It is SOO nice working on late model tubs/cars. Everything is snap together plastic. Most of the electrical connections have positive locking devices.
I about shit when I arrived and saw that the car had the full leather interior option!!! ha ha.. Poor Dan was frothing over the leather dash!!
B
you're right Brad....I am still thinking about that beautiful full leather dash.
Clean up indeed.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 22 2006, 09:38 PM
I watched Bill THROW it into the Tow vehicle 
He is going to let Tony cut it up 
Basically, we re-did everyting we did yesterday in 1/4 of the time
We also canned everything they had made on Sat. for the springs. Ended up not running anything but the Eibachs. No tender springs. We couldnt get the ride height correct with the tenders in place. No problem with them out! I like it better. It left him with MORE room to go down.
B
Posted by: trekkor Oct 22 2006, 09:39 PM
Will the #628 be on this car, too?
KT
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:54 PM
Will the #628 be on this car, too?
KT
Yep!
Lucille will be running the familiar 628....
I have a backup set of numbers for Fritz. I'll be putting those on the car next Friday night.
Man...my body hurts....
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 09:56 PM
Will the #628 be on this car, too?
KT
It is their (Doris and Bill's) official GGR Timetrial #. So yes the Boxster will be #628 also. Unless they manage to get a new number during the off season...
Damn....you beat me to it Bill...
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 09:58 PM
Will the #628 be on this car, too?
KT
It is their (Doris and Bill's) official GGR Timetrial #. So yes the Boxster will be #628 also. Unless they manage to get a new number during the off season...
I always check with Glen Brooksby every now and then to see if he'll give up his #2.....always a resounding NO!
I don't think a single digit is in the cards anytime soon....
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 10:01 PM
Will the #628 be on this car, too?
KT
It is their (Doris and Bill's) official GGR Timetrial #. So yes the Boxster will be #628 also. Unless they manage to get a new number during the off season...
I always check with Glen Brooksby every now and then to see if he'll give up his #2.....always a resounding NO!
I don't think a single digit is in the cards anytime soon....
Bill P.
Bill, don't feel bad about the single digit. Only took me about 13 years to get #5
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 22 2006, 10:02 PM
Glad to see you guys were able to get the rest of things completed.
I am looking forward to seeing the car in action next weekend.
Bill, is Doris coming along for a little seat time, or are you and Randal going to do some tweaking first?
Had a great time yesterday with you all.
Brad it was nice to touch bases with you again.
Mark and Andy it was nice meeting you both and working with you.
Mark swings a nasty plasma cutter
And Andy loves to take things apart
And Randal.....well Randal spent a lot of time on his back............under the car getting really dirty.
In all seriousness...this was an interesting weekend. It was great working with all of you....
And Bill, thanks for supplying all those expensive parts for us to play with
Hi Dan,
Doris has a study session for her school so she's out until April of next year.
It will be Randal and I flogging "Lucille". There is no lean in the car right now. Wait till the cage goes in...it should be very interesting.
I can't wait until next weekend.
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 10:06 PM
Bill,
You should check with Jim Calzia....#9. I heard he may be moving on to vintage racing or some such....
Also check directly with Laurie Hageman-Dean. AS the TT registrar she has control of the #s.
Had a great weekend (Saturday) working with you and the rest of the gang.
It will be fun watching you and Randal flog the new girl in town.
I'll have to try to get a ride with one or both of you on Saturday. 
Did you send in your email for setup/tech for AX #9?
Posted by: trekkor Oct 22 2006, 11:00 PM
I'd also like to get a ride.
I put in for set-up duty.
KT
Posted by: McMark Oct 22 2006, 11:15 PM
Where is that AX, Bill? Marina?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 22 2006, 11:18 PM
Where is that AX, Bill? Marina?
Nope, Alameda
Posted by: McMark Oct 23 2006, 02:08 AM
Sweet!
That's close enough that I can come watch.
Posted by: Randal Oct 23 2006, 09:59 AM
Will the #628 be on this car, too?
KT
Yep!
Lucille will be running the familiar 628....
I have a backup set of numbers for Fritz. I'll be putting those on the car next Friday night.
Man...my body hurts....
Bill P.
When I drove the car down the street I had one objective and that was to test it's side to side motion.
Good thing the car is quiet, otherwise the neighbors would have been after us as I was using the whole street.
With the power steering and that unbelievable suspension, even without the cage, that car turns as well as a single seater. Believe it! It feels like a go-kart.
Bill - With the cage installed a good starting point for Alameda might be to have all the adjustables on full soft and work to tighter from there.
After driving that car I found myself looking for Boxers on Craigs List last night.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 23 2006, 10:03 AM
At this stage in the game, Randal, I think you type "Boxer" just to tweak us .
KT
Posted by: Randal Oct 23 2006, 10:20 AM
At this stage in the game, Randal, I think you type "Boxer" just to tweak us .
KT
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 23 2006, 10:54 AM
Good morning!
I'm 100% this morning. All soreness is gone
Grant,
With the double adjustable rear toe links, he will have a LOT more range of rear toe adjustment than any other 986/996 out there. The front is easy to adjust also. I'm suggesting to Bill (right now) that he pick up some Long Acre toe plates and some metric tape measures and metric "steel" rules. He can then dial in the toe he needs for AutoX or road racing. Toe is VERY important in getting these cars to turn in under low speed conditions. I use left foot braking in AutoX if I'm to lazy to change the toe settings prior to the event. He will have to experiment with what works for him.
B
Posted by: brant Oct 23 2006, 10:56 AM
You guys are amazing.
nice job fellas!
nice car Bill!
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 23 2006, 11:02 AM
Good morning!
I'm 100% this morning. All soreness is gone
Grant,
With the double adjustable rear toe links, he will have a LOT more range of rear toe adjustment than any other 986/996 out there. The front is easy to adjust also. I'm suggesting to Bill (right now) that he pick up some Long Acre toe plates and some metric tape measures and metric "steel" rules. He can then dial in the toe he needs for AutoX or road racing. Toe is VERY important in getting these cars to turn in under low speed conditions. I use left foot braking in AutoX if I'm to lazy to change the toe settings prior to the event. He will have to experiment with what works for him.
B
Grant,
What he said Most of the issues with the low speed turns in Boxsters was understeer because of the lack of negative camber in the front suspension and weight transfer to the front.
With the negative camber Bill will have available and the reduced weight transfer due to the weight loss of the car and the other suspension components (not to mention the rear tow adjustability) this car should turn on a dime.
I can hardly wait to get a ride at the AX and also to start instructing Doris at the TT series next year.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 23 2006, 11:13 AM
Spec Boxster update:
The car was delivered to Tony at TCDesign at 8am. Tony started work on it immediately. He did make an adjustment to the scheduled pickup date and time.
Instead of Thursday night (October 26th) he said pick it up Wednesday night (October 25th)!..... 
That gives me 2 nights to figure out how to put the dash back together!
Bill P.
Posted by: Randal Oct 23 2006, 11:18 AM
Spec Boxster update:
The car was delivered to Tony at TCDesign at 8am. Tony started work on it immediately. He did make an adjustment to the scheduled pickup date and time.
Instead of Thursday night (October 26th) he said pick it up Wednesday night (October 25th)!.....
That gives me 2 nights to figure out how to put the dash back together!
Bill P.
Tony is the best!
Posted by: GTeener Oct 23 2006, 11:46 AM
Nice work guys! It is cool to see a Boxster all stripped down.
Can't wait to see the finished product.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 23 2006, 11:46 AM
Bill,
I'm HIGHLY concerned about the main hoop and A pillar bars!! I dont want him to have to make 3 main hoops before he figures it out. Did you discuss this with him? The whole "helmet" against the cage thing?? He needs to stay as tight as possible to the hardtop for the A pillar bar. Also make damn sure he doesnt block the center engagement for the top at the top of the windshield..LOL
I wish I was there helping him zip in the scab plates 
and get the interior ready.
I also wish we would have cut down the studs and prepped the scab plate area's for him.. oh well.. he is getting paid for this..LOL
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 23 2006, 12:00 PM
B,
Call Tony ASAP if you can. He's laying out the design right now...they are going to make tracks.
(408) 956-1526.
Bill P.
Bill,
I'm HIGHLY concerned about the main hoop and A pillar bars!! I dont want him to have to make 3 main hoops before he figures it out. Did you discuss this with him? The whole "helmet" against the cage thing?? He needs to stay as tight as possible to the hardtop for the A pillar bar. Also make damn sure he doesnt block the center engagement for the top at the top of the windshield..LOL
I wish I was there helping him zip in the scab plates
and get the interior ready.I also wish we would have cut down the studs and prepped the scab plate area's for him.. oh well.. he is getting paid for this..LOL
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 23 2006, 02:32 PM
I called him and voiced my concern. I also went over some of the dash stuff and how he was going to do the cage.
It will be BADASS!!!
He is going to use the new 997Cup style design
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 23 2006, 03:08 PM
I called him and voiced my concern. I also went over some of the dash stuff and how he was going to do the cage.
It will be BADASS!!!
He is going to use the new 997Cup style design
B
What is the difference in the 997 versus the 996 cup designs? A-pillars and/or halo?
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 23 2006, 03:25 PM
The 997's have an X behind you in the main hoop and an X from the top of the main hoop to the rear strut towers.
He just called me about modifying the top near the location of the main hoop, so the A pillar bars will move over a little bit allowing more room. I told him we had to remove the factory latches and trim them for our main hoop. They still work fine, but need to be trimmed down a little bit.
He had the scab plates welded in before noon. We also discussed moving the fuse panel forward of the A pillar bar. I also warned him of the top latch for the windshield hoop.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 23 2006, 04:03 PM
The 997's have an X behind you in the main hoop and an X from the top of the main hoop to the rear strut towers.
He just called me about modifying the top near the location of the main hoop, so the A pillar bars will move over a little bit allowing more room. I told him we had to remove the factory latches and trim them for our main hoop. They still work fine, but need to be trimmed down a little bit.
He had the scab plates welded in before noon. We also discussed moving the fuse panel forward of the A pillar bar. I also warned him of the top latch for the windshield hoop.
B
I'm dropping him off my eyebolt backing plates for the Schroth belts. Tony is going to make sure the inboard eyebolts are mounted correctly for me. No drama for me when I assemble the car at the end of the week.
I'll shoot some pics tomorrow morning of the progress.
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 23 2006, 04:18 PM
The biggest issue is: making sure the seats dont interfere with the eyebolts in the forward or "back" positions.
Have him do the nut plates for the sub belts also!!!!
B
Posted by: McMark Oct 23 2006, 04:58 PM
After driving that car I found myself looking for Boxsters on Craigslist last night.
I did the same thing. There's a really nice low mileage one on the Redding craigslist. 34k miles.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 23 2006, 05:10 PM
Wait another month or two. They will go down even more over winter.
B
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 24 2006, 05:53 PM
So did Tony get the cage done? If so, we need some more pics
Bill, you should get Mark (sportech) to slap on that muffler while the car is there getting the alignment and windshield done on Friday....
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 24 2006, 06:00 PM
So did Tony get the cage done? If so, we need some more pics
Bill, you should get Mark (sportech) to slap on that muffler while the car is there getting the alignment and windshield done on Friday....
Hi Dan,
The scab plates are welded in and the main hoop is finished. Tony is smokin on this one!
Yeah...I was thinking of having the muffler put on the car while it is over there. I don't know if they will have time but I can find out. I want to dyno the car after the muffler swap, but I won't have time until Friday, November 10th at the earliest, so I don't know if Sportech would want to have the muffler gone that long. I need to look at the dyno runs to see what it gives me.
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 24 2006, 06:07 PM
I don't think Mark is going to have a time limit set. And since you are a good friend of mine he knows you are good for it...or he'll get me the next time I am at the shop.
I meant to ask you on Saturday. Did you desnork the air box? That is good for some sound and maybe a HP or two....at least it sounds better.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 24 2006, 06:12 PM
I don't think Mark is going to have a time limit set. And since you are a good friend of mine he knows you are good for it...or he'll get me the next time I am at the shop.
I meant to ask you on Saturday. Did you desnork the air box? That is good for some sound and maybe a HP or two....at least it sounds better.
My plan is to run the muffler on a dyno pull, then de-snork the intake and run another pull. Theoretically we should see a slight gain on each mod due to air intake and exhaust volume going up. This will give Mark data for his modification.
I'll give Mark a call tomorrow. It will be on the alignment rack for several hours on Friday, so they may be able to get to it.
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 24 2006, 06:23 PM
That sounds great....by the way that muffler is the one that came off of my car several years ago when I put on the SS Dansk sport muffler.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 24 2006, 07:28 PM
Bill,
Dont forget to have them torque the rear axle nuts for you.
I have been inside of the 2.5+2.7 mufflers. We spent a lot of time in them while I was at SSI I know how they are baffled.
I'll stick with the $150 Flowmaster that Chris Murry runs
FYI: Tony was doing 914 cages in 8 hours back when he was younger and before he had a pneumatic tube bender..LOL
B
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 24 2006, 07:32 PM
Bill,
Dont forget to have them torque the rear axle nuts for you.
I have been inside of the 2.5+2.7 mufflers. We spent a lot of time in them while I was at SSI
I know how they are baffled.I'll stick with the $150 Flowmaster that Chris Murry runs
FYI: Tony was doing 914 cages in 8 hours back when he was younger and before he had a pneumatic tube bender..LOL
B
The one Bill is getting is completely gutted. No baffling of any sort. Only two short stub pipes at the exit....kind of like a 911 sport muffler, but the exhaust exit is in the stock location.
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 25 2006, 06:32 AM
Bill, I'm curious about a few things on this car. What camber settings are you going with? I remember with my stock Boxster the max I was able to get -0.6. I'm sure you'll be able to grab more than you need with this setup. What size wheels and tires (DOT R's?)? Any idea on how much will the car weigh with cage? Looking forward to seeing this car at Alameda. Its certainly going to be one of the lightest Boxsters we have seen at a local AX event.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 09:13 AM
Bill, I'm curious about a few things on this car. What camber settings are you going with? I remember with my stock Boxster the max I was able to get -0.6. I'm sure you'll be able to grab more than you need with this setup. What size wheels and tires (DOT R's?)? Any idea on how much will the car weigh with cage? Looking forward to seeing this car at Alameda. Its certainly going to be one of the lightest Boxsters we have seen at a local AX event.
Hi Grant,
Initially, we are going with -3.0 deg in front and -3.25 deg in rear for camber. Spec Boxster mandates that the wheels be of stock width, 17x7 front, 17x8.5 rear. Tires for Spec Boxster are 225/45/17 fronts and 255/40/17's rear. Since I won't be running with POC for all but a few events, I'll be primarily running 245/45/17's front and 275/40/17's rear. This will be the sizing at the track. For AX, we may run a 245/255 combo to make it easier to rotate the rear. I'd also like to try the 255's up front to see how that works.
Inititally, we have the Spec Boxster classed tires (Kumho Victoracers). The last long but aren't the stickiest. We will use these to play with the suspension settings. After finding out what works, we will switch to Kumho V710's for AX and Hoosier R6's for the track, unless Hoosier comes out with a tire compound for AX that can compete with the Kumho's.
As far as weight, it is relative in some sense. Spec Boxster rules say the car has to be at least 2700lbs with driver. We pulled ALOT of weight out of it. I haven't weighed everything yet, but it's a good amount. We are putting weight back in with the cage, and Tony will tell me how much it weighs when all is said and done.
We will be lighter, stiffer, and have the trickest suspension of any Boxster out there at this point in time at an AX. Same for PCA TT events. We won't approach the performance and mods of Chris Murray's car, but this is a Spec Boxster car, not a GT3 race car.
At the AX it will be busy. Both Randal and I will be playing with shock and AR settings. I've made up a matrix to go by for adjustments. We start and keep going. In the morning, and possible all day, we will be slow. But by our last run we will see if we can lay down a decent time.
Thanks,
Bill P.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 09:20 AM
I just talked to Tony at TC Design. The cage installation will be finished in the Boxster between 3pm and 5pm today!....
Bill P.
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 25 2006, 10:06 AM
I just talked to Tony at TC Design. The cage installation will be finished in the Boxster between 3pm and 5pm today!....
Bill P.
His shop is just down the street from work I'm tempted to drive by to see his work.
In the morning, and possible all day, we will be slow. But by our last run we will see if we can lay down a decent time.
If by slow you mean you wont get TTOD the first few runs I would agree. Stock Boxsters with street tires are capable of putting down some smacking times. This car even while being sorted should go fast.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 25 2006, 10:28 AM
Yeah riiiiiiiiight.
I'm going to do my best to get ya this time.
KT
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 10:56 AM
It will weigh 2650 in its current config with cage and half a tank of gas. The only difference currently between this car and the one I run is the fiberglass GT3 nose and the third radiator, BUT he still has his AC/Heat box in the car and functional. I'm betting this weight is a wash and the car will weigh 2650 +/- 30lbs. I weigh 200lbs and checked in on the POC scales at 2850 with me in the car on Hoosiers.
Wish I could be there this weekend. Feels weird putting something together and not "sorting it"
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:20 AM
It will weigh 2650 in its current config with cage and half a tank of gas. The only difference currently between this car and the one I run is the fiberglass GT3 nose and the third radiator, BUT he still has his AC/Heat box in the car and functional. I'm betting this weight is a wash and the car will weigh 2650 +/- 30lbs. I weigh 200lbs and checked in on the POC scales at 2850 with me in the car on Hoosiers.
Wish I could be there this weekend. Feels weird putting something together and not "sorting it"
B
Given my work travel schedule I won't have the 3rd radiator and the GT3 nose installed until AFTER the Infineon test day. I can't make it happen before then.
I'll just take it easy and get a feel for the car....I should have it all together in battle trim by the December 10th THill date....
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 11:38 AM
What day is the autoX?
Trying to figure out how to make it up there.
I know I'll be up for Jenny's wedding in a few weeks.
B
Posted by: trekkor Oct 25 2006, 11:50 AM
This Saturday.
KT
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 12:29 PM
Crap. If I drive out of here Friday night, I get there around 4:30am. I wish it was on Sunday. Typically I leave at 3:00pm on Sunday and I'm back here by 9:30pm.
We will see.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 03:06 PM
Spec Boxster update @2:00pm Wed, October 25th. Tony is done with the cage!.... He is now finishing the paint on it and the last welding of the backing plates for the race harnesses.
I pick the car up at 5pm.
TC Design ROCKS!!!!!
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 03:14 PM
He always has. The kid's got mad skillz. I really enjoyed working around him when we were up north.
I wonder if he still wants to open a restaraunt?
B
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 25 2006, 04:23 PM
Spec Boxster update @2:00pm Wed, October 25th. Tony is done with the cage!....
He is now finishing the paint on it and the last welding of the backing plates for the race harnesses. I pick the car up at 5pm.
TC Design ROCKS!!!!!
Bill P.
Yes, he has been the best guy I have worked with in the Porsche race car fabrication/repair biz. Honest, realistic and does work effeciently and cost effectively.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 05:33 PM
I'm dying here.. anyone else want to see what the cage looks like as bad as I do..LOL
B
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 25 2006, 05:41 PM
I'm dying here.. anyone else want to see what the cage looks like as bad as I do..LOL
pics! pics! pics!
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 05:49 PM
I dont think Bill has a camera phone 
B
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 25 2006, 05:56 PM
His shop is just down the street from work I'm tempted to drive by to see his work.
Grant, please go shoot some pics for us
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 06:03 PM
Grant is down there now (I can see it in my Porsche crystal ball) he has his hands in his pockets... he is playing pocket pool... and winning...LOL
Bill is playing on the new jungle gym of bars... he is now busting it around Tony's building..
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 06:04 PM
I'm not going to stop posting until Bill posts some pics..LOL
Wait.. I have to leave work now.
B
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 25 2006, 06:21 PM
I'm still stuck at work, so I'll keep pestering here for pics
Posted by: 914forme Oct 25 2006, 06:22 PM
Its like knowing that your SO has a great body, but all you do is talk about it!
Dang Bill it's 5:19 Pac time wheres the pictures 
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 25 2006, 06:36 PM
Its like knowing that your SO has a great body, but all you do is talk about it!
Dang Bill it's 5:19 Pac time wheres the pictures
Clearly you have no appreciation for SF Bay Area traffic at commute hour. Bill will be lucky to get home by 6 PM.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 06:36 PM
He should be sitting in traffic on 880 right now.. near the San Jose Airport..LOL
(Porsche crystal ball)
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 06:37 PM
Ha ha.. proof that I didnt know Grant had posted (post times are the same)
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 07:12 PM
OK. I'm home.. where are the pics?? Damn..
B
Posted by: 914forme Oct 25 2006, 07:31 PM
Dang Bill it's 5:19 Pac time wheres the pictures
Clearly you have no appreciation for SF Bay Area traffic at commute hour. Bill will be lucky to get home by 6 PM.
I have had to rewrite this post fout times now.
Joke =
It was in fun - jest, sorry to f-up your day three time zones away.
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 25 2006, 08:11 PM
come on guys... PICS!!!
(I'm still in the office 
)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 08:29 PM
Ok...I just got home...it's 7:19pm....
A little thing about Doris and I going out for a quick bite to eat.
The cage is AWESOME!!!!
Get this....you know how most other spec cars have the end caps of the dash cut....not Tony...
You know how some cages you can see from the street in the A pillars and make you feel claustrophobic?.....not Tony...
And you know how some bars go through the AC directional vents?...not Tony...The vents are left stock...I may even be able to use flex hose and still make the AC run through the side vents as well, not just the center vents. Totally trick!
GT3 style X bracing in the main hoop and in the attachment points behind the motor, yet there is no blocking of rearward visibility. And he moded the hard top and radiused the bends of the cage to match the hard top contour. You cannot see the upper halo while looking at the car from the side.
Do you guys really want pics now? It's dark and I'll have to unload and take pics in the dark....I still need to clean up the garage to fit the car in it....
Oh...and did I mention that all of the cage was TIG welded....no MIG on the thing... 
This thing is a work of art!
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 25 2006, 08:35 PM
KT
Posted by: nebreitling Oct 25 2006, 08:39 PM
i've got a hard-on for this car already.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 08:42 PM
i've got a hard-on for this car already.
Maybe Doris should have named the car "Woody".....
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 25 2006, 08:51 PM
you mean to tell me he didn't cut that beautiful full leather dash?
Sounds great Bill....looking forward to seeing it on Saturday.
Did you sign up for tech?
Or are you just winging it?
It would be great for you and Randal to show up and give me and Trek a hand setting up the course. We have too many rookies in the set up crew yet again....
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 08:54 PM
you mean to tell me he didn't cut that beautiful full leather dash?
Sounds great Bill....looking forward to seeing it on Saturday.
Did you sign up for tech?
Or are you just winging it?
It would be great for you and Randal to show up and give me and Trek a hand setting up the course. We have too many rookies in the set up crew yet again....
Hi Dan,
I am confirmed on tech. I believe Randal didn't get a worker assignment. I can help layout the course until we get enough cars showing up to start the teching...
Bill P.
Posted by: Randal Oct 25 2006, 08:58 PM
you mean to tell me he didn't cut that beautiful full leather dash?
Sounds great Bill....looking forward to seeing it on Saturday.
Did you sign up for tech?
Or are you just winging it?
It would be great for you and Randal to show up and give me and Trek a hand setting up the course. We have too many rookies in the set up crew yet again....
I will be there to help Dan.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 25 2006, 09:02 PM
I'm sure he has a whole portfolio of roll cage shots by now...
Stop taunting us!!
KT
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 25 2006, 09:32 PM
Thanks Randal
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 25 2006, 09:41 PM
latest course layout....basically the same course with less cones and a couple of areas of fine tuning.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 09:57 PM
Come.. on.. the camera has a flash. Just stick it in the car
I just hope he didnt go in front of the dash with the bars
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 25 2006, 09:59 PM
Did he run the knee bar WAY up on the A pillar bars? High enough to block the center vents?
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:01 PM
Okay...okay...geez....I pulled the car out and started snapping away....
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:02 PM
side view...the bars are hidden...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:03 PM
rear view....x brace
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:03 PM
driver's side....where's the roll cage?
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:07 PM
passenger intrusion x brace...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Aaron Cox Oct 25 2006, 11:08 PM
sick
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 25 2006, 11:08 PM
very nice.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:08 PM
A pillar....notice how close to the A pillar the bar is...the AC grill is untouched and sides are not butchered...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:10 PM
Let's go inside and see all the custom bends on a hand built cage....notice how Tony snugged everything up to the top...and the latch is free and clear!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:11 PM
Continuing the tour....
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:14 PM
All the points meet up...
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Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:15 PM
and the rear mounts...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 25 2006, 11:22 PM
Did he run the knee bar WAY up on the A pillar bars? High enough to block the center vents?
B
Here's the trick part....the knee bar is up behind the lower dash pad, but he did not trim the lower pad. It fits perfectly between the back of where the CD player used to be and in front of the AC/fresh air diverter. I definitely can use some flexible hose to the outer vents if I choose to....don't know if I will but I may....
Take a look....
Attached image(s)
Posted by: trekkor Oct 25 2006, 11:22 PM
Now you got the beat!! 
KT
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 26 2006, 12:02 AM
My knee bar is the same height, but your A pillar bars are farther forward by 3/4 of an inch or so. I didnt want to relocate the fuse panel. I totally see why he didnt cut the dash.. and now I'm wondering why we cut the black car!! The black car has the el cheapo dash in it so it really didnt matter.
I like it. Looks great. I also like the lopsided door X.
Cant wait to see it with the top off.
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 26 2006, 12:06 AM
When we spoke on the phone he asked me about cutting the stock top. I told him to go for it!. I see what he did now. He cut the top back for the A pillar bars. This allowed him to move them out farther away from the drivers head
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 26 2006, 12:24 AM
Yeah...next time you are around you'll have to sit in it. The cage doesn't feel like it's right next to you. It feels comfortable.
I've got to get that quick release on the steering column ASAP. I almost broke my back getting in the car when unloading from the trailer. The window opening is much smaller than the 911.
Don't forget to feed me the alignment settings...
Bill P.
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 26 2006, 03:38 AM
booyaah!
Tony did an excellent job
really trick how he did the extra diagonal braces on the front hoop
and the way the dash fits
looks like it was designed and installed at the factory
one question...
when you're sitting in the car, how's the head clearance to the top front bar?
Posted by: Randal Oct 26 2006, 09:05 AM
Let's go inside and see all the custom bends on a hand built cage....notice how Tony snugged everything up to the top...and the latch is free and clear!
If you take the top off Bill someone is going to arrest you. That is way sexy.
Tony is really a wonderful fabricator and what is even better is that he does what he says. My vote for vendor of the year!
Any seconds?
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 26 2006, 09:26 AM
The weight of materials for the cage came to 85lbs.....
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 26 2006, 10:25 AM
Try being over 6'1 and climbing through that window hole without a removable wheel. It sucks. I dont mind climbing through the window on the open trailer. This is another reason to make the doors EASILY removable. I can remove the door while sitting in the drivers seat and set it down next to the car...then climb out.
B
Posted by: maitaiken Oct 26 2006, 11:02 AM
Bill, in all my years of building race cars I must say the cage is a work of art. Tony's last name should be Picasso. Good job!
Ken...
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 26 2006, 11:21 AM
This is great work, but you should see some of his BMW race car work!!! He was very smart, he didnt pidgeon hole himself with just Porsches for work
B
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 26 2006, 12:37 PM
This is great work, but you should see some of his BMW race car work!!! He was very smart, he didnt pidgeon hole himself with just Porsches for work
B
and his Honda work ...and his Mazda work ...and Check out his website. He has been doing some very cool work. A arms for S2000, etc.
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 26 2006, 12:43 PM
I forget how many Spec Miata's he built. It was out of control for awhile!!
He is "genius" rated. His brother is ultra smart also.
B
Posted by: GTeener Oct 26 2006, 12:56 PM
look'n good Bill!
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 26 2006, 11:16 PM
Randal and I worked on the dash tonight. The dash is back in and everything electrical works except the turn signals. We don't know why...but since the car will never see the street again, it really doesn't matter.
Heater controls work
Defrost controls work
AC controls work
Traction Control button works
We also:
adjusted parking brake
cleaned up some wiring
re-attached hard top locator tabs
Tomorrow's schedule (Friday, October 27th)
1. 8:30am drop car at glass shop for windshield re-install
2. Noon pick up car from glass shop and drop at Sportech for 4 wheel corner balance and alignment. Also, we may install the secret, gutted muffler to try out. Time will be the decider. (Also need to torque the rear axle nuts to 300 ft/lbs)
I pick up the car at 5pm.
Friday evening list of to do's:
1. Install steering wheel quick release
2. R&R driver's seat and adjust for 2 drivers
3. Clean up and zip tie loose wiring, inlcuding fuse block
4. Re-install trunk release handle mechanism
5. Install Schroth 6 point belts
6. Figure out how to adjust AR bars quickly (we will be trying different settings between every AX run on Saturday).
7. Wash car
8. Apply numbers to the car
9. Load for GGR AX
Whew...lots of work done and still to go.
And I did find that I will need to weld some support back into the doors. They are a little too flexible to take my body weight crawling out of the car after loading in the trailer. The doors are bending and will not last. Bummer....but fixable....
Detailing of the car will occur after I return from my 10 day business trip and finish the Trackmaster's Infineon test day. That's when we can really detail out the wiring, scrub off the remaining glue in the cabin and attach the door panels.
Updated pictures tomorrow.....
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 26 2006, 11:32 PM
This has been a great thread showing the progress of your project.
I'm looking forward to running against you on Saturday and with you on the 12th.
You will be in high-intermediate, right?
Is Randal coming out on the 12th to run the big track at Sears?
I'll be shooting for a 1:58.
What will the Boxster do?
KT
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 26 2006, 11:36 PM
This has been a great thread showing the progress of your project.
I'm looking forward to running against you on Saturday and with you on the 12th.
You will be in high-intermediate, right?
Is Randal coming out on the 12th to run the big track at Sears?
I'll be shooting for a 1:58.
What will the Boxster do?
KT
Trekkor, you need to start repeating the following....."I need a bigger six"
You will be getting a really good look at his exhaust as he goes by....wave bye-bye.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 26 2006, 11:46 PM
I don't think you have anything to worry about Trekkor. I will be very slow with the Spec car the first track day out with it. Just like I was with Fritz. We need to get to know each other first before we really start flogging the car.
I would have preferred Thunderhill for the inagural track day for "Lucille". There is more of a safety margin there. Sears commands respect or it will eat your car. We don't want that to happen. And I haven't been on Dot-R's since 2003. 18 inch Michelin slicks or Pirelli's may be on the horizon for the spec car, but for now I have to learn all about Dot-R's again and driving a new car.
I'll be happy with 2:04's....
I'll wave to you as you go by....
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 26 2006, 11:48 PM
D'oh...
Honestly...What lap times are we looking at? .48's?
KT
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 26 2006, 11:52 PM
Let me drive it.....just like at Laguna with Fritz.
someone needs to get you used to those DOTRs and no torque...
Might as well be me....
Just kidding....good luck at Sears....You shoud get a lot of good data on your setups from the AX on Saturday.
Still want that ride by the way...
I agree though...you have a history of picking the most difficult tracks in Norcal to baptize your new racers. 
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 26 2006, 11:56 PM
booyaah!
Tony did an excellent job
really trick how he did the extra diagonal braces on the front hoop
and the way the dash fits
looks like it was designed and installed at the factory
one question...
when you're sitting in the car, how's the head clearance to the top front bar?
Hi Jeroen,
For Randal and I, the head clearance is great, even with the top bar. We haven't tried Doris in the car with a helmet yet, but it appears she will be fine. I'm more concerned with the quck release hub and dished steering wheel. With Doris putting the seat forward all the way, the steering wheel looks to be too close to her. I may need to go back to the MOMO wheel inside Fritz when using the quick disconnect.
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Oct 26 2006, 11:59 PM
Ahh...So you will be there, Dan.
I'm going to beg you for another instructional session.
I'll let you pick which air dam we run
This will be a fantastic season closer. 
KT
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 27 2006, 12:07 AM
Let me drive it.....just like at Laguna with Fritz.
someone needs to get you used to those DOTRs and no torque...
Might as well be me....
Just kidding....good luck at Sears....You shoud get a lot of good data on your setups from the AX on Saturday.
Still want that ride by the way...
I agree though...you have a history of picking the most difficult tracks in Norcal to baptize your new racers.
Dan,
If you want to run Lucille in lieu of one of your car's runs, feel free. It's the lease I can do for all the work you did on her....
Are you going to do any open days this winter? Or is the car going down for the motor build soon?
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 27 2006, 12:16 AM
Let me drive it.....just like at Laguna with Fritz.
someone needs to get you used to those DOTRs and no torque...
Might as well be me....
Just kidding....good luck at Sears....You shoud get a lot of good data on your setups from the AX on Saturday.
Still want that ride by the way...
I agree though...you have a history of picking the most difficult tracks in Norcal to baptize your new racers.
Dan,
If you want to run Lucille in lieu of one of your car's runs, feel free. It's the lease I can do for all the work you did on her....
Are you going to do any open days this winter? Or is the car going down for the motor build soon?
Bill P.
Thanks Bill, that was tongue in cheek....I will be happy with a ride....for now
I am starting my motor build in November....as soon as Ken and I have time together I am going to pull the motor and see what I have and what I need to build a nice bullet proof motor.
See you Saturday....I may try to drop by Sportech tomorrow afternoon to see what Mark is up to....Check out a certain car that will be there...
Posted by: Tony C Oct 27 2006, 09:17 AM
Looks good! It was pretty hard to get everything to fit nice, not much room in there.
Thanks for all the kind words guys, we try REALLY hard to do good work, at a reasonable price.
B I have done over 100 spec miata cages since my last count.....
-tony
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 09:54 AM
Interesting. I weigh 200#'s and the door doesnt flex?? Is this with it OPEN? and you trying to get out?
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 10:04 AM
This is why when people ask me "who" they should go to.. you are the recommended vendor.
I was a little bit concerned with your first "off the cuff" quote for Bill, but hopefully you know more about the Boxster now and will be able to give me a number to use when people ask me (how much?)
B
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 27 2006, 10:25 AM
Brad and Bill,
So excluding cost of the donor car what is approximate cost of everything to get car spec Boxster ready?
I'm looking at how I might swing somthing like this now. If this Spec Boxster thing takes off it might be a lot of fun.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 10:34 AM
On the cheap, one can easily be built for 25k depending on what options you go with. The bolt in cage would save several k.
I tell people 35k if they want me to build one from scratch. This is about 5k of labor and a weld in TC style cage.
Everyone so far has paid around 15k for their starter car. Bill and I both had hard tops with our cars. The fiberglass "skin" that is legal runs about 1k (which is what stock hard top goes for)
Oh.. and flights to San Jose are around $240 on Southwest for me...LOL
I would'nt hesitate to do this again in one weekend.
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 10:41 AM
The intial cost of getting in slows some people down. It is not like a Miata were you can get a decent donor car for 2-3k.
It isnt just the class.. Boxster racing in general will take off in the next 2 years. Chris Murry and Michael Lanski really led the pack with "wild" cars. They both should have started off like this instead of jumping into a bunch of engine and electrical headaches with engine swaps.
With 300 stock hp easily obtainable.. and even 385-400 with stock engines available for 15k.
This is going to take off.
I'm working with a vendor down here right now on a narrow body 330hp Boxster race car. He orginally built Lanski's Ariozona "Flag" car and Murry's car.
B
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 27 2006, 10:46 AM
how you're gonna get these hp numbers?
swap a 996 or 997 engine?
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 11:03 AM
Engine swaps.
It will be another year+ before I finish the two engine combinations I'm working on based on the 2.5 crank and X51 100mm pistons and heads. Short stroke big bore high rpm engine.
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 11:05 AM
The issue right now is: VarioCam plus in early chassis is VERY VERY difficult. I'm trying to figure out if we have to run the Varicam+ or if we can just unplug it.
B
Posted by: Jeroen Oct 27 2006, 11:12 AM
ps... can you repost link of the scca boxster movie?
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 11:16 AM
The link was'nt parsing correctly with our forum software. I couldnt make it work.
B
Posted by: grantsfo Oct 27 2006, 11:41 AM
The intial cost of getting in slows some people down. It is not like a Miata were you can get a decent donor car for 2-3k.
It isnt just the class.. Boxster racing in general will take off in the next 2 years. Chris Murry and Michael Lanski really led the pack with "wild" cars. They both should have started off like this instead of jumping into a bunch of engine and electrical headaches with engine swaps.
With 300 stock hp easily obtainable.. and even 385-400 with stock engines available for 15k.
This is going to take off.
I'm working with a vendor down here right now on a narrow body 330hp Boxster race car. He orginally built Lanski's Ariozona "Flag" car and Murry's car.
B
For me entry is easy part. It's getting proper support and mechnical know how. I'm OK with suspensions, but beyond that I'm over my head quickly. Not having repair facilities is a big issue for me too. Most of my work is done on a driveway and then car is stored in a temporary garage on my trailer.
Posted by: Tony C Oct 27 2006, 11:53 AM
B the cage is ~$3k mig'ed and ~$4k tig'ed
-tony
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 11:57 AM
Grant,
part of the allure is "easy" to maintain. If you can check power steering fluid and change oil.. you'll be ok.
The 2.5 engine is the 1.7 of the 914's. It is pretty bullet proof and easy to come by if something happens to the first engine.
I have a full year of multi people abuse on the black car and it hasnt missed a beat. A Boxster guy out of Berkley has over 10k track miles on his car. He has tracked it since it was new in 1997. NO engine issues. Pretty sure he hasnt had any power steering issues either (big concern right now with the cars)
I change the oil after every track weekend and every 2 AutoX's.
Things that fail with high mileage cars:
Axles
Power steering pumps (which we know how to cure with a small cooler in-line)
Wheel bearings (once a year)
Air to oil seperator (the new replacements are strong than the originals that the car shipped with)
The only thing above you would have trouble with is the wheel brearings.
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 12:03 PM
B the cage is ~$3k mig'ed and ~$4k tig'ed
-tony
Thank you sir
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 12:34 PM
Why am I into these cars?
I'm beat up and worn out on fixing all the small things that happen to a 914 when they are tracked. I feel like I'm constantly chasing a small leak or headache of some sort with the 914 track cars.
7k and you get a new factory Porsche engine installed by the dealer for the Boxster (2.5)
99% of the RMS issues have been dealt with (IF) the owner had the service work done at a dealer (check paperwork) If not.. then go to the class legal light flywheel/clutch setup and do the RMS. GT3 street cars leak...LOL
I'm sure we sill see more issues, but I closely followed a east coast race team that ran Boxsters in Grand Am for several years back to back. Their biggest complaint was wheel bearings and keeping the alignments set in the rear of the car.
B
Posted by: echocanyons Oct 27 2006, 01:14 PM
So do/can you "delete" the power brakes and power sterring in a car like this or leave it stock?
(I noticed you said the power steering gave you problems).
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 01:36 PM
No need. The ABS and Power steering are some of the awesome features built into these cars. I personally havent had any issues with the power steering in the 2.5 car, but several S owners have had issues. I'm not sure if it is driving style or what, but the answer is a small Earls style oil cooler in-line with the pump (or slow the pump down with a different pulley)
I can only think of a few times that I have actually engaged the ABS. You dont use the brakes that often in a 2.5 car once you figure out how to drive it.
This Dec. I'll pull out the first set of brake pads we put into the car. They latested a full year with multiple track events and multiple AutoX's. The key is: cooling. GT3 street cooling ducts snap right onto the stock Boxster lower control arms nearly doubling the cooling from the stock pieces.
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 27 2006, 02:27 PM
You know I love the 914's, but reality is for me:
Ultimate would be for me to have a 914 AutoX car and the Boxster track car.
The Boxster class BSR1 and BSR2.. BSR1 is a Boxster wih full interior and Brey Krause extensions that has ALL the same suspension components and third radiator, but doesnt have the full cage and isnt gutted. This will allow people to "graduate" to road racing by running their cars in AutoX and Time trials before making the jump to fully gutted and fully caged. Same tires as BSR2!!
I found this to be a GREAT idea considering that not everyone wants a full cage.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 27 2006, 07:44 PM
I just got Lucille back from Sportech. She looks pretty slammed but we can go lower. I didn't want to bottom her out just yet because I want to maintain as much shock travel as possible. Right now it's an eyeball job on how low to go in comparison to the shock travel. I will leave it for the AX and the first track day as is to get a baseline.
Initial settings are:
Front
====
At the current ride height the most camber we could get was -2.75 degrees. Toe is set for zero.
We did not touch initial ride height from where the build team set it.
Rear
===
We set the camber at -3.0 degrees. Toe in is set at - 1/16".
We lowered the rear another 1/4" from where the build team set it. The car now has 0.5 degree rake.
The gutted muffler sounds GREAT! I'll dyno it in a few weeks. We're hoping to pick up a few HP on the upper end of the power band for the track.
I drove the car around the neighborhood with the new alignment. The car's handling is killer!....lightning quick and very stable. I took it up over 100MPH on the expressway and it's just like a cruise on the highway....this thing is going to be one nice car!
Tonight I get to readjust the driver's seat, quick disconnect steering wheel...run belts, tie wrap all the wire hanging everywhere, and put on the roll bar padding. Oh...I need to wash the car and put on numbers before loading too....
Other than the seat, it should all go pretty quick.
Can't wait for tomorrow's AX.
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 27 2006, 08:06 PM
Bill, see you in the early Am tomorrow. Was great to see Doris...
She looked pretty excited about the car...
I am looking forward to instructing her next year.
With the course we have for tomorrow I am predicting a top 10 for Lucille's maiden voyage
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 27 2006, 09:37 PM
Bill, Did the custom muffler sound as good as you thought it would?
I want to see and hear the car driven in anger tomorrow
Posted by: Randal Oct 27 2006, 09:41 PM
Bill, Did the custom muffler sound as good as you thought it would?
I want to see and hear the car driven in anger tomorrow
keep that thought
Posted by: McMark Oct 28 2006, 12:35 AM
Bill, did the rear window come out?
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 28 2006, 05:24 AM
Well, well....It's 4:14am the day of the GGR AX. It took me the entire night to re-assemble the car. Ran into some fun with the belts as the pull up type lab belts don't like the Sparco's. Schroth doesn't leave enough length on the belts to have the strap rachets slide through the belt hole in the seat. You basically cannot tighten your lap belt. After some fiddling I found a temporary solution that wil work, but I will order some pull down lap belts next week.
Roll bar padding took awhile as I had to trim quite a bit to fit the custom cage and top. Lots of time spent shaving the foam.
All the wiring is zip tied and the airbag door has been velcroed in.
she is now loaded on the trailer and ready to go. I just have to decide if I should laydown for an hour or just stay up.
Man...I'm tired... 
Bill P.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 28 2006, 05:26 AM
Bill, did the rear window come out?
Hi Mark,
I haven't had time to play with the rear window. I'll try to get to it when I return from my business trip.
Thanks,
Bill P.
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 28 2006, 08:13 AM
In 5-6 years of AX, I've had 2 breakdowns(not including the time I ran out of gas)......both simple fixes. To tar the 914 as unreliable due to lousy building or maintenance (or a T-4 ).....sounds like a personal problem.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 28 2006, 11:04 AM
Are you getting old??
TRACK CARS.. Tired of fighting TRACK cars.. I said I would have 914 AutoX car.Super easy to maintain a car that runs hard for 30min. a year
B
Posted by: J P Stein Oct 28 2006, 11:28 AM
We were off a bit this year....only 130ish passes.
It has been up to 180 some years & 150 minutes of track time.
Granted, I do some heavy maintainance come winter....but then just drive.
And, yes I am getting old, but I did read your mention of "track"....was that W2W racin' or DE? How many 914s have you run in those events lately?....your build or someone else's?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 28 2006, 09:07 PM
maiden voyage went pretty well.
Rode with Bill on his first 3 runs this morning. Car handles great. Immediated turn in, good throttle response, car rotates nicely.
All with base suspension settings.
I'll let Bill reveal his times but I think he finished pretty much where I predicted he would.
By the way the 914club was well represented today.
Tom was there with his son and 914aroo, Demick, Trekkor, Myself and a couple others that I don't know.
Demick and Trek got into the 46s, I had a 47+ with the orange putput.
Grant was scrubbing in his new tire/wheel combination on the Mazdaspeed6, and Nathan was there shredding tires with the Firehawk.
As usual The Smurf was way up on everyone.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 29 2006, 01:43 PM
Spec Boxster Plus driving impressions:
WOW!.....
Randal will need to post his impressions but I was truly suprised how good the platform was out of the box for us. We set the AR bars neutral and the shock rebound full soft and combined with the 450/500 springs the car was a delight to drive right from the start. We could run the car flat out on the high speed parts and yet turn very easily in the low speed stuff. That is very different from Fritz or from my earlier 914-6 which required me to adjust my AR bars for an either / or combination.
We definitely me our goal of putting the car in the top 10. On raw times we may have stuffed the car in the top 5, but I was so tired I didn't read the entire posting sheet and our second set of runs I just wanted to drive and not fiddle. For the afternoon Randal and I just drove the car, we didn't even bother checking tire temps anymore.... 
I'd never flogged a Boxster except at an AX school with a studen't car. The Spec Boxster Plus feels like a slightly bigger, heavier 914 with alot of torque, and this from the 2.5L small motor version. I have been so lucky to drive some pretty fun cars, my 914-4 and my 914-6, Fritz, and now the Boxster. Taking lap times out of the equation, and based totally on the fun factor, my 914-6 was always my favorite for AX and Fritz for the track. Our Spec Boxster is easily my favorite now for AX. And soon we will be testing on the track and we'll see how that goes.
For various reasons (financial being a large part) we will keep the Spec Boxster at the mandated 2700lbs per the Spec series rules. However, the long term plan is to change the car to a lighter version with more power, all the while keeping the car narrow body for ease of double duty (AX and Track). So we'll be collecting parts that will help lighten the load (i.e. f/g lids and such), and deciding how to get more power (2.5L mods? stuff in a 3.2 "S" motor? stuff in a 996 3.4?, etc).
The evolution of the car has just begun, but if anyone wants more detail just ask me. I'll be glad to share our experiences with you, including cost. And I'm sure any of the build team would be glad to tell you what was good, bad, ugly or funky about the car.
I really believe this platform is going to be a good one for me to enjoy my weekend racer fantasies!
And again, I want to thank the build team for all the help.
THANK YOU to the Spec Boxster build team:
McMark
SirAndy
Brad
Dan (Almaden Valley)
Randal
Special Guest Ken J. from the Boxster Racing Board (unofficial photographer)
I really owe you guys big time!
Bill P.
Posted by: Randal Oct 29 2006, 03:37 PM
Spec Boxster Plus driving impressions:
WOW!.....
Randal will need to post his impressions but I was truly suprised how good the platform was out of the box for us. We set the AR bars neutral and the shock rebound full soft and combined with the 450/500 springs the car was a delight to drive right from the start. We could run the car flat out on the high speed parts and yet turn very easily in the low speed stuff. That is very different from Fritz or from my earlier 914-6 which required me to adjust my AR bars for an either / or combination.
We definitely me our goal of putting the car in the top 10. On raw times we may have stuffed the car in the top 5, but I was so tired I didn't read the entire posting sheet and our second set of runs I just wanted to drive and not fiddle. For the afternoon Randal and I just drove the car, we didn't even bother checking tire temps anymore....
I'd never flogged a Boxster except at an AX school with a studen't car. The Spec Boxster Plus feels like a slightly bigger, heavier 914 with alot of torque, and this from the 2.5L small motor version. I have been so lucky to drive some pretty fun cars, my 914-4 and my 914-6, Fritz, and now the Boxster. Taking lap times out of the equation, and based totally on the fun factor, my 914-6 was always my favorite for AX and Fritz for the track. Our Spec Boxster is easily my favorite now for AX. And soon we will be testing on the track and we'll see how that goes.
For various reasons (financial being a large part) we will keep the Spec Boxster at the mandated 2700lbs per the Spec series rules. However, the long term plan is to change the car to a lighter version with more power, all the while keeping the car narrow body for ease of double duty (AX and Track). So we'll be collecting parts that will help lighten the load (i.e. f/g lids and such), and deciding how to get more power (2.5L mods? stuff in a 3.2 "S" motor? stuff in a 996 3.4?, etc).
The evolution of the car has just begun, but if anyone wants more detail just ask me. I'll be glad to share our experiences with you, including cost. And I'm sure any of the build team would be glad to tell you what was good, bad, ugly or funky about the car.
I really believe this platform is going to be a good one for me to enjoy my weekend racer fantasies!
And again, I want to thank the build team for all the help.
THANK YOU to the Spec Boxster build team:
McMark
SirAndy
Brad
Dan (Almaden Valley)
Randal
Special Guest Ken J. from the Boxster Racing Board (unofficial photographer)
I really owe you guys big time!
Bill P.
Driving impressions:
To get into a newly modified car, without having driven it more than 500 yards and feel as comfortable as both Bill and I did is saying something.
As Bill mentioned we didn't have to change a thing on the car...
I don't know how to describe this accurately, but this is definitely a car that you have to drive way out in front, i.e., it doesn't reward late or dramatic input. In other words if I ran off the track it wasn’t due to under steer, but to a late turn in that was going to force me off the track in any event (driver error).
No question this is the quickest car to turn I have ever driven. At 2600-2700lbs that's impressive. You’ve got to love it when a car is totally neutral.
The car tracks well, i.e., straight, cornering or slide slipping, although to test the limits of this car we will need to run slicks or AutoX DOT’s to find out how fast we can corner. The track tires were OK, but not a good indication of how fast this car can corner.
After driving Fritz I was a bit reluctant to really pound the brakes, so I can’t give you any impression on how the anit-lock brakes should have been working. I felt them only once and that was in a high speed spin, i.e., both feet in... Lots of time left out there under braking.
I reached the corning limit in only one corner, i.e., the small left hand sweeper that turned back towards the finish and that was a totally controllable 4 drift.
Oh, and thanks again Trekkor for that piece of roll bar padding. Elbows and naked roll cages don't do well together.
Wonderful car Bill.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 10:17 AM
Action picks from GGR#9....from street car to Spec in 8 days.....
Dan Thompson and I at the sweeper at end of course....
Bill P.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 10:19 AM
another...
Dan Thompson and I braking and turn in after the high speed section of the course....
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 10:19 AM
third pic...
Me trying to find the limits....this was a DNF....
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 10:20 AM
4th pic...
Randal in the tight stuff....
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 10:21 AM
5th pic....
Randal starting in on the backside of the course...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Randal Oct 30 2006, 11:59 AM
5th pic....
Randal starting in on the backside of the course...
Bill - you get a PHD in “suspension selection” after fielding this car. To handle that well out of the box is pretty respectable.
Guess Brad’s experience also had something to do with it, so he gets a PHD as well.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 30 2006, 12:21 PM
Might have had something to do with the excellent alignment he got at SPORTECH.
Not to mention the discussion we had with the car on the rack about what to use as base suspension settings for it's first runs.
Shocks on soft and sway bars set front middle setting and rear 2nd softest.
I think the car did pretty well set fairly soft.IMHO
Seems to work pretty well with the weight loss and the nice cage to stiffen up the chassis.
Oh and that muffler sounded pretty sweet up in the RPMs.
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 12:29 PM
Might have had something to do with the excellent alignment he got at SPORTECH.
Not to mention the discussion we had with the car on the rack about what to use as base suspension settings for it's first runs.
Shocks on soft and sway bars set front middle setting and rear 2nd softest.
I think the car did pretty well set fairly soft.IMHO
Seems to work pretty well with the weight loss and the nice cage to stiffen up the chassis.
Oh and that muffler sounded pretty sweet up in the RPMs.
You're going to love this....
I talked with Mark at Sportech and we had a mis-communication on the suspension settings....we're aligned all around, but it's still a work in progress...
I wanted...
1. Corner balance
2. ZERO toe front
3. 1/16 toe-in rear
4. -3.0 camber front, -3.25 camber rear
We got...
1. No corner balance...the machine was broken
2. 1 1/16" toe in front...yes ONE and ONE SIXTEENTH toe in front!
3. ZERO toe rear
4. -2.75 camber front, -3.0 camber rear. Currently we are at the limits of the camber plates up front. We may try lowering it down again.
So this thing was handling great and we have massive toe-in right now in the car. I bring the car back in for another full alignment and corner balance on Friday November 10th.
If we thought the car could turn in before...wait till we have ZERO toe in the front....
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 30 2006, 01:08 PM
Bill, all that toe in on the front is probably why it turned in so nicely and did not push at all...
A bit more camber would be nice
Instead of more lowering, how about slotting the strut towers some more first to get more neg camber?
If you get it much lower in the front you won't be able to get those 255s you wanted to try under there without a bit(bunch) of rubbing.
255 and 275 V710s would be killer for AX next season.
A very nice first outing for Lucille.
It will be interesting to hear your comments after you first track event....
When is that going to be again? TH or Sears?
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 30 2006, 04:44 PM
1. No corner balance...the machine was broken
2. 1 1/16" toe in front...yes ONE and ONE SIXTEENTH toe in front!
3. ZERO toe rear
4. -2.75 camber front, -3.0 camber rear. Currently we are at the limits of the camber plates up front. We may try lowering it down again.
Interesting.
If anything we wanted "toe out" for the front for AutoX and zero for the track. How many late model competition cars do they align? I'm surprised he would even put that on a late model car without questioning you.
I believe the camber plates are going to hit the tub FIRST if you slot the upper tower (which means removing them and machining away material so they dont hit before your slots max out) Another reason for GT3 arms.. -7.00 before you need to do anything up top...
I spec'd the suspension for the class (front and rear bars + spring rates) For the class I suggested rebound only adjustable shocks. This left us with several choices, but the rules committee decided on Bilstein to help keep the cost down. The number 2+3 cars built for the series spent 5k on custom built JRZ's. The intention was to allow people to run Koni's/Bilstein/JIC/Custom rebound only shocks. The guy's thought it would be easier/cheaper if we stuck with Bilstein. I agreed (already had them..lol)
Soo.. my PHD came from testing and more testing.. I started with H&R bars with only the 3 way adjustment on the rear and NO adjustment on the front (they are class legal) but I knew most of the people I run with want to adjust the cars so I suggested the Tarret parts and the GT3 front bar.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 05:15 PM
Dan,
I was loooking at elongating the slots. I'll have to take a look and see if the plates will hit if we move them over anymore than they are.
I'll be at Sears for the first track outing on Sunday, Nov 12th.
B,
Do you think I can lower the car even more to gain camber or our we at the limit? I don't wan't to run out of shock travel. And it would be nice to try some 255's up front...
Do you know what size slicks fit the narrow body car? i.e. 235/640R18 or 250/640R18's?
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 30 2006, 06:05 PM
Do you think I can lower the car even more to gain camber or our we at the limit? I don't wan't to run out of shock travel. And it would be nice to try some 255's up front...
Honestly Bill, I think you will run out of shock travel soon. Remember: the camber plates already stuck the shock body in the hole... and it was MORE than I anticipated. Not only was it the thickness of the aluminum, but it was also where the monoball was located on the plate (depth)
Look at some of the "stock Boxster" upper mount pictures you will notice that the shock shaft is ABOVE the tub when tightened down. The shaft on your car is buried in the hole.
Biggest CONCERN with the front right now: we may have to pull apart the Bilsteins and cut down the bump stop for the front. We have had to do this on 996TT's for the rear when they are lowered on PSS9's.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 06:15 PM
Do you think I can lower the car even more to gain camber or our we at the limit? I don't wan't to run out of shock travel. And it would be nice to try some 255's up front...
Honestly Bill, I think you will run out of shock travel soon. Remember: the camber plates already stuck the shock body in the hole... and it was MORE than I anticipated. Not only was it the thickness of the aluminum, but it was also where the monoball was located on the plate (depth)
Look at some of the "stock Boxster" upper mount pictures you will notice that the shock shaft is ABOVE the tub when tightened down. The shaft on your car is buried in the hole.
Biggest CONCERN with the front right now: we may have to pull apart the Bilsteins and cut down the bump stop for the front. We have had to do this on 996TT's for the rear when they are lowered on PSS9's.
B
And the sorting continues........
It's part of the deal...being the guinea pig on the camber plates...the car feels good and is about the same ride height as your black car. Should I try another 1/2 inch of lowering and see what happens?
Bill P.
Posted by: Randal Oct 30 2006, 06:20 PM
5th pic....
Randal starting in on the backside of the course...
Bill - you get a PHD in “suspension selection” after fielding this car. To handle that well out of the box is pretty respectable.
Guess Brad’s experience also had something to do with it, so he gets a PHD as well.
OPPs... Dan gets a PHD as well!
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 30 2006, 06:30 PM
Randal would have been faster on my suggestion (full soft on the bars)
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 30 2006, 06:33 PM
I think 1/2 an inch would be safe. I just dont want you to blow up your new shocks. They dont like to be bottomed out!
Trying to compare the ride heights.. It has the 993 rears on it in this pic and Boxster fronts.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 30 2006, 06:34 PM
Damn. That 275 looks BEEFY on the back..LOL
Just noticed that!
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 30 2006, 06:37 PM
Right now, the black car rubs both inner wheel well plastic pieces. This could be happening for multiple reasons.. but it will happen first towards the front of the fenderwell. It will only wear once.. then you have a small hole. It wont even create an smoke..LOL
1/2 inch looks good. If you had the toe plates you could do this on your own and set the toe at zero.
B
Posted by: Randal Oct 30 2006, 07:13 PM
Randal would have been faster on my suggestion (full soft on the bars) B
No question we were both on full soft Sunday...
Posted by: nebreitling Oct 30 2006, 10:36 PM
hmmmmm..... check it out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/227922258.html
Posted by: nine14cats Oct 30 2006, 11:59 PM
hmmmmm..... check it out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/227922258.html
Nathan,
Scarf that thing up....BPB Racing (Barrick-Pickering-Breitling)....
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Oct 31 2006, 01:19 AM
I'm trying to figure out what the hell the suspension is doing in the lower right picture??? of the 4.
That is a good price. Not sure why it weighs 100lbs more than the black car WTF?? I'm running the stock back glass window...
B
Posted by: Randal Oct 31 2006, 05:22 PM
hmmmmm..... check it out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/227922258.html
Nathan,
Scarf that thing up....BPB Racing (Barrick-Pickering-Breitling)....
Bill P.
Lucille did OK for her first time out:
<http://www.pca-ggr.org/acresults/102806.html>
Maybe more people will start running funny suspension settings and switch to "track tires" for autoX....
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Oct 31 2006, 06:32 PM
I've been running 3 year old Victoracers (track tires) all season
I am sure the heat cycled out a long time ago....just hate to get rid of them when they have lots of rubber left.
Next year I will probably try a set of V710s, to compliment my new motor, so I can run with the "Big Dogs" .
Lucille will be very formidable next season with V710s, and a sorted suspension...not to mention a couple of drivers who have figured the "new girl in town out".
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 2 2006, 07:50 AM
I've been running 3 year old Victoracers (track tires) all season
I am sure the heat cycled out a long time ago....just hate to get rid of them when they have lots of rubber left.
Next year I will probably try a set of V710s, to compliment my new motor, so I can run with the "Big Dogs" .
Lucille will be very formidable next season with V710s, and a sorted suspension...not to mention a couple of drivers who have figured the "new girl in town out".
I think the Boxster will do well for us and be a top 10 car. I know that Doris will like the PS and PB features. Randal will be chasing Andrew for TTOD with the Raby powered rocket.
I'll be running V710's in the 245/255 variety as Kumho doesn't make a 275 size for the rear. Or I can opt to run the A6's from Hoosier that do have a 275. But it's pretty unanimous that the V710's are the hot ticket for AX, so we'll probably go for them. We will run the Hoosier R6's on the track.
Next up....Sears!
Bill P.
Posted by: nebreitling Nov 2 2006, 12:45 PM
not what i've heard. I've heard that the A6's (not the A3S05's) are every bit as fast as the 710's, if not faster (tho they are mo money). if they have a 275 to boot, then that might be even better -- though it might require more drastic changes from your track setup, depending on what size you run there.
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 2 2006, 01:04 PM
not what i've heard. I've heard that the A6's (not the A3S05's) are every bit as fast as the 710's, if not faster (tho they are mo money). if they have a 275 to boot, then that might be even better -- though it might require more drastic changes from your track setup, depending on what size you run there.
I like the A6's and the R6's as they come in a 240/275 combo versus the V710's in a 245/255. Other than toe settings we will leave the camber settings alone between AX and track and just change the AR bars and the shock rebound.
I hear wear is about equal as far as heat cycles....
I personally had no problem rotating the car with the 275's in the back. I don't know if we would gain or lose anything by going to the V710's in the 255 out back. We're also looking at 18" radial slicks for the car, going the same size all around. Of coursce that forces the purchase of a FOURTH set of rims since I already have 3 sets of the 17 inchers....
And this is supposed to be the "budget" car....
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 2 2006, 02:22 PM
With the bar adjustability you have.. the 255-275 flip will be fine.
I'll get the Michelin/Yoko/Pirelli sizing for you (slicks)
B
Posted by: Randal Nov 3 2006, 07:07 PM
With the bar adjustability you have.. the 255-275 flip will be fine.
I'll get the Michelin/Yoko/Pirelli sizing for you (slicks)
B
What size 18" slicks will fit in front/rear?
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 6 2006, 12:14 PM
Did Bill track the car this weekend? Or is it next weekend?
I'll have the 18 sizing. I was busy all weekend and didnt want to go to the shop.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 6 2006, 01:58 PM
Did Bill track the car this weekend? Or is it next weekend?
I'll have the 18 sizing. I was busy all weekend and didnt want to go to the shop.
B
I fly back from Germany on Thursday night. I need to dyno the car on Friday morning and then take it back for an alignment on Friday afternoon. I then will prep and load Saturday. Hopefully I'll get more than a few hours sleep and be up and early Sunday morning for the drive to Infineon.
I asked to be moved from the advanced run group with TM since I won't be driving Fritz and some Nascar cars are supposed to be running in that group. But since the event is full so far they can't move me. Should be fun dicing with some cars with 3x the HP as me!
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 6 2006, 03:19 PM
Bill they are only fast in a straight line or turning left
I will be interested to hear the results on the dyno, and your impressions on the big track.
good luck, keep it shiney.
Posted by: nebreitling Nov 6 2006, 03:37 PM
lol.. i don't think so. i've seen the winston cup cars out at thunderhill. totally sick. good drivers eaily run sub 1:50's. even fast ASC guys run 1:51-2's. you'll be fine out there with them, but do watch your ass.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 6 2006, 03:43 PM
lol.. i don't think so. i've seen the winston cup cars out at thunderhill. totally sick. good drivers eaily run sub 1:50's. even fast ASC guys run 1:51-2's. you'll be fine out there with them, but do watch your ass.
yea, I have seen them at TH also....very fast in the right hands.
Just kiddin' Bill, you'll be fine.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 6 2006, 04:01 PM
Interesting. I'm going to be up there this weekend for Jenny's wedding. I *might* stop by. I kinda needed to be back by Sat. night, but I oculd make a detour. I'll have Tiff with me.
Now you have me thinking.. damn it... was trying to avoid thinking this week.
B
Posted by: trekkor Nov 6 2006, 04:01 PM
You serious?
Wildman...
KT
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 6 2006, 04:15 PM
You serious?
Wildman...
KT
Wow
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 6 2006, 07:03 PM
Bill,
I'm confirmed. You have track support/help loading Sat. afternoon/evening and Sunday. I'll probably have to leave around 2pm on Sunday. I need to be back here before 10pm.
Do you have communication? Can we get some radios? I would like to be able to take notes from you while you drive. I *might* be able to bring some with me. Your helmet will be the issue. Maybe I'll bring a helmet already wired for racing radio's.
B
Posted by: trekkor Nov 6 2006, 08:38 PM
Why don't you bring a "chatterbox" and ride along with him?
TMR allows passengers with the waiver, you know.
KT
Posted by: 914forme Nov 6 2006, 08:50 PM
Brad's butt would toss the chassis off balance and effect the race settings. Sorry Brad but your as tall as I am, I know I would toss that car into a 235 pound weight penality in all the wrong places. In the car!!!!!!
Now I do take passengers on auto-x runs, if the course is mostly right handers, I really need to get mine to the scales.
good luck guys, this is more fun than I am allowed to have.
Posted by: McMark Nov 6 2006, 11:29 PM
Brad, are you driving? Can I bring the Fikse's to Sears?
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 7 2006, 12:53 PM
I am driving up, but it will probably be in a CIVIC .. truck needs smogged. I'm trying to bring the truck!!
B
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 7 2006, 12:56 PM
Now I do take passengers on auto-x runs, if the course is mostly right handers, I really need to get mine to the scales.
good luck guys, this is more fun than I am allowed to have.
I dont mind instructing, but Bill is past my instruction. SCCA never rides with you. They follow you or drive in front of you. I have never understood the "passenger" thing. It sucks for low powered cars. Everyone wants to ride with me in 2.0 914's..lol I find it difficult to explain that EVERTHING will change when I get out of the car. Braking points.. turn in.. throttle steer...
Not a fan of "passengers"
B
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 11 2006, 10:05 AM
My 2nd pass of dyno results are in. This was where we took off the stock muffler and bolted on a modded muffler from Sportech, a local shop here in Campbell, CA. The interior baffling has being redesigned for better flow and the size of the outlet opening changed.
Our results show the mods were very successful for the stock 2.5L motor. While peak HP is up 1 HP, the 2300 to 6000 RPM rev range shows a very flat HP and TQ curve with most of the range showing 4 to 11.8 HP improvement. Torque is up considerably as well. We made a significant improvement in the meat of the driveable power band.
Here are the HP numbers:
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Posted by: nine14cats Nov 11 2006, 10:05 AM
Here are the Torque numbers:
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Posted by: nine14cats Nov 11 2006, 10:08 AM
Here is the Dyno Chart:
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Posted by: nine14cats Nov 11 2006, 10:18 AM
What was interesting is that I pulled dyno runs on the car with new muffler with the snorkel on the airbox on and with it off. Supposedly this makes the engine breath better. While the intake sound is much nicer, there was NO DIFFERENCE in performance.
Some of the aftermarket companies claim an 8-10 HP improvement with an airbox mod or a replacement. A mod seems to be the only way as you would need to change the airbox to promote different airflow characteristics. Probably combined with a chip mod.
Overall I'm extremely happy with the muffler mod!
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Nov 11 2006, 10:36 AM
I'll try to get some video of you on the track.
Nice work on the power upgrade.
KT
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 11 2006, 10:37 AM
Bill,
I am impressed....I didn't think it would make that big of a difference...
Pretty good for just gutting and a little change in the outlet size...
I guess Mark may be on to something
Glad I convinced him to give it a try....he has been doing the same thing to 911 mufflers for years....another one of those tricks taught to him by the "original" Ken....
Some of those old racer's tricks still work evidently.
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 11 2006, 10:59 AM
Bill,
I am impressed....I didn't think it would make that big of a difference...
Pretty good for just gutting and a little change in the outlet size...
I guess Mark may be on to something
Glad I convinced him to give it a try....he has been doing the same thing to 911 mufflers for years....another one of those tricks taught to him by the "original" Ken....
Some of those old racer's tricks still work evidently.
Next up is to take a dB reading of the muffler. It would be great to have it pass Laguna. Also I'm looking at headers. Surprisingly not much data out there on independant dyno tests. It seems like headers, intake box mod and a chip would yield decent gains. But it's pricey....
Bill P.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Nov 11 2006, 11:26 AM
Yes, you need to weigh the HP/torque gains against the cost...but with a 2.5 there really aren't any other options.
From what I have read...headers are the next step along with either sport cats or no cats...
Seems logical for the headers....have you looked at the stock exhaust manifolds...pretty cheesey..
the headers would smooth the exhaust flow not to mention opening things up a bit...
I would think the headers would move the torque band up higher in the rev range...
There is so little out there as far as solid information....on all these mods.
Have you contacted evolution motorsports? They have lots of performance mods for the 2.5 and have tested them together...you might want to give them a ring.
www.evoms.com
Also check Eagleday.com for exhaust components from Schnell, stuff looks pretty nice and is much cheaper than some of the other brands...
Headers, cat bypass pipes etc.
It is only money Bill
Posted by: trekkor Nov 11 2006, 01:47 PM
I keep a Db meter in my camera bag.
I can take some readings for you if you like.
KT
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 13 2006, 06:51 PM
I guess nobody recalls the fact that "ZUCS" was sent out of business several years back by Excellence magazine when they did dyno testing on their NEW and IMPROVED intakes for the Boxsters and 996's (and found ZERO gain) ZUCS emerged a year or so later as "EVO".. owned by ... Todd Zuccione...
To this day.. people still think they can out engineer Porsche. All we do is move the power around the RPM range (as Bill found) I beleive a long track muffler and a short track muffler would be the hot ticket. The go kart guy's take 8-10 pipes with them to tracks for tuning.
I just dont beleive that Porsche leaves "50hp" on the table for ANY of their cars. No matter how much we play around.. it is still "air in and air out". Unless an increase in displacement is performed or a cam change.. I personally beleive you are playing with maybe 10hp, and half of that is probably to do different atmospheric pressures/humidity/temperature during the pulls.
B
Posted by: nebreitling Nov 13 2006, 07:34 PM
i agree with the asshole.
(except there's no real need for more than 2 or 3 pipes these days)
Posted by: grantsfo Nov 13 2006, 09:28 PM
I guess nobody recalls the fact that "ZUCS" was sent out of business several years back by Excellence magazine when they did dyno testing on their NEW and IMPROVED intakes for the Boxsters and 996's (and found ZERO gain) ZUCS emerged a year or so later as "EVO".. owned by ... Todd Zuccione...
To this day.. people still think they can out engineer Porsche. All we do is move the power around the RPM range (as Bill found) I beleive a long track muffler and a short track muffler would be the hot ticket. The go kart guy's take 8-10 pipes with them to tracks for tuning.
I just dont beleive that Porsche leaves "50hp" on the table for ANY of their cars. No matter how much we play around.. it is still "air in and air out". Unless an increase in displacement is performed or a cam change.. I personally beleive you are playing with maybe 10hp, and half of that is probably to do different atmospheric pressures/humidity/temperature during the pulls.
B
I dont know the Boxster 2.7 is making 30 hp more than it did when I bought mine. Porsche found 30 HP on their original design. I just dont think enough people have looked at the 2.5 to exploit signficant HP. Certainly it will take more than de-snork and freeflow exhaust however.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 14 2006, 11:44 AM
Different heads completely and VarioCam+. I have several engines apart right now learning them
Picture time!
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Posted by: grantsfo Nov 15 2006, 08:43 AM
I'm curious where does this car end up on GGR point scale for AX and TT? I dont think two cars could be closer in terms of capability than this Boxster and my 2.4 914-6.
Power to weight is about the same, displacement is close, wheels are similar proportion, modifications are about the same. Sounds like lap times at Infineon are similar. Bet the Boxster isnt as heavily penalized as the 914 however.
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 15 2006, 09:40 AM
I'm curious where does this car end up on GGR point scale for AX and TT? I dont think two cars could be closer in terms of capability than this Boxster and my 2.4 914-6.
Power to weight is about the same, displacement is close, wheels are similar proportion, modifications are about the same. Sounds like lap times at Infineon are similar. Bet the Boxster isnt as heavily penalized as the 914 however.
As it sits it is TT8 and AX5. Could be AX6 next year if the Boxster amendments of Bill Dally's goes through. Power to weight suggests TT9 but the mods point it out into TT8. If I add even 1 more point it goes to TT7, so the next mods need to be HP.
Grant, where do you land in the points scale?
Bill P.
Posted by: trekkor Nov 15 2006, 11:17 AM
Me, too!!
I mean...me, too
This shows the points system is wrong on every level.
No matter...
KT
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 15 2006, 11:39 AM
I can see the Boxster now with Cherry bombs hanging out the back..LOL
I beleive the cars would be VERY equal in their current config. The Boxster doesnt spin 7k RPM and the gearing basically SUCKS.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 15 2006, 12:31 PM
I beleive the cars would be VERY equal in their current config. The Boxster doesnt spin 7k RPM and the gearing basically SUCKS.
B
Yeah...the gearing does suck...bad. It's basically a 2 speed box and with such a broad torque band in the motor it's a shame.
B,
When will you be able to disect a 5 speed box and see if flipping gears is an option?
Thanks,
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 15 2006, 12:39 PM
I'm trying to get a spare tranny right now. One of the guy's on the Boxster Racing board has one for me in LA. I have one at Jason's house in SJ, but I havent been up with the truck to pick it up.
I should call Gamroth and ask him if he has done it yet.
I only use 2-3-4 (mostly 3-4)
It forces you to "think" about the gear selection.
B
Posted by: grantsfo Nov 15 2006, 02:30 PM
I'm curious where does this car end up on GGR point scale for AX and TT? I dont think two cars could be closer in terms of capability than this Boxster and my 2.4 914-6.
Power to weight is about the same, displacement is close, wheels are similar proportion, modifications are about the same. Sounds like lap times at Infineon are similar. Bet the Boxster isnt as heavily penalized as the 914 however.
As it sits it is TT8 and AX5. Could be AX6 next year if the Boxster amendments of Bill Dally's goes through. Power to weight suggests TT9 but the mods point it out into TT8. If I add even 1 more point it goes to TT7, so the next mods need to be HP.
Grant, where do you land in the points scale?
Bill P.
With DOT R tires I'm in TT5 and AX3. Heavy penalities for being a 914 and for engine conversion/displacement increase. I kind of like the current points system as it has driven me to build a car that will be more of an AX TTOD contender. I havent calculated points for my planned engine rebuild.
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 15 2006, 03:20 PM
Since I wish I could have close ratio gearbox for Christmas....here is the Spec Boxster's gear ratio chart....pretty spread out.
Bill P.
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Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 15 2006, 03:37 PM
Yep. The factory manuel shows the same graph.
The 2.7 box isnt much better.
B
Posted by: nine14cats Nov 15 2006, 03:49 PM
I talked with Paul Guard and Vision Motorsports (Kokeln) this morning. Gear sets are in the works but no timing. "Maybe" next year.
Bill P.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 15 2006, 05:37 PM
Yep. I knew that too..LOL Paul is getting tired of me calling. I could have had Jap gears by now.
The people to contact are the Audi people.. Audi box.. maybe locate another Audi box that has better gearing.
Stay away from the six speed.. it is HEAVY/TANK.
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