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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 3 2006, 10:23 PM

Lost N spaced finishes 2nd place.

That is now a 2nd in 2004 1st in 2005 and 2nd in 2006.

Privately funded all amatuer racer team...

3 of the 4 drivers are current/former GGR TTers and AXers.

2 of the 3 drivers have been TTing/Axing for the same amount of time I have.

Pretty good considering there were over 50 cars this year. Many of factory teams including 2 factory backed BMW turbo diesels.
Many many professional drivers in very fast cars...but they couldn't beat a 32 year old street legal 911.

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 3 2006, 11:37 PM

been reading the blogs all day. it's always fun for me to hear about the attrition rate!

congrats to lost n space. i look foward to hearing more about how they pulled off yet another podium. it's phenomenal that they have even finished three years in a row -- much less on podium.



o'connell racing took first in a flawlessly prepared and driven GT3. but then again, what would you expect when you put Craig Stanton, Jason Bowles, and Greg Fordahl in the same office?

Posted by: trekkor Dec 3 2006, 11:39 PM

Finally, the results.

it was very exicting see so much of the race.

How many laps down were team "L 'N S" from the winner?


KT

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 3 2006, 11:46 PM

It wasn't even close
I think they were back like 60-70 laps.

The first place GT3 cup car ran away from the field with little if any down time for repairs.

I am just amazed that a group of amatuers with a 32 year old street legal 911 have finished in the top 2 places 3 years in a row. when well funded factory teams from various other manufacturers can't even finish the race.

pretty interesting stuff.....and I personally know 3 of the 4 drivers, and many of the team members...if not all of them...

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 3 2006, 11:48 PM

don't know, but according to C and D, lost n space finished 120 miles behind o'connell, so that's like ~40 laps.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/12123/2006-thunderhill-25-hour-update-6.html

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 12:04 AM

From what i can see, O'Connel logged 705 laps to "L 'n S" 674...

705 is a new record for total laps at the 25.


KT

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 10:49 AM

Tough one for me..

Congrats to Masuo and team for second!, but I have spent more time around Stanton/Fordahl

I talked to Fordahl on Wednesday evening before the race. He was ecstatic!

Cool piece of inside info: Betim Berisha used to work for Fordahl (one of the 5 drivers they had) Betim last work with MattR at Porsche Motorsports.

Fordahl paid for his seat by supplying tires for the event.

Betim brought on a clothing sponsor (you have seen me wear "Hazardous" shirts/vest's)

I think Betim is 25 yo now?? Pretty crazy.

I searched all over for results.. couldnt find a damn thing on NASA's site?? WTF


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 10:52 AM

Dan failed to mention the late 1995 (or later) 993 3.6 liter engine in that early lightweight 911 chassis Not sure if they did a G50 in it or not (probably not)


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 10:58 AM

Damn.. my buddy (and multiple 914 owner) Richard Hatfield (owner of Alliance Financial) took 3rd.

Something is wrong. I personally know multiple drivers in the top 3 cars??

I think I will persue a seat next year



B

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:00 AM

http://www.shedracing.com/2006_25hours

9th place team, 2nd in class on...710's.
They got 7 hours on their first set and were turning 2:08-10's the whole race.




KT

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:04 AM

Rich Walton with "L 'n S", said they were running the same car as last year.
Just "refreshed" the engine. He said it makes 250hp and the car is 2400#'s...On Toyo RA-1's!!

Sounds like a 3 liter.

A 3.6 on race slicks might have been the race winner for this team.


KT

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:08 AM

I would love to see a "914Club" sponsored entry.

What class would "The Beast" or Scott Y's car fall into in the 25?


KT

Posted by: grantsfo Dec 4 2006, 11:16 AM

Sounds like a good combo for an endurance car. Allows for drivers to drive a fast car without punishing motor. I can see how something like this would work well. Lighter weight car easier on brakes/tires, less fuel usage, motor put under less stress. Then its just a matter of survival and minimizing times in pits.

Posted by: grantsfo Dec 4 2006, 11:20 AM

I'm thinking RA1's might be a good choice for endurance racing. They heat cycle better than a lot of tires and last forever in comparison to slicks.

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 4 2006, 11:20 AM

the motor in LNS is a 3.6 built on an older case...built by Matt Lowrance....one of his lower HP motors...built for longevity. The car was originally built to be Louise's street legal AX car so she could drive it to event. Since she and Masuo already have the tube framed 993 body worked race car.

Last I saw the car still had full registration for the street.
No matter what motor the car has in it....it is amazing to me that a narrow body (SC flares) running Stock Fuchs Alloys and RA-1s manages to stay atop the leader board when running against factory backed teams with much newer hardware.
A testament to the build team, pit crew, and the fact that all 4 of the drivers can drive the track blindfolded....basically their home track.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 11:31 AM

No doubt, what they pulled off last year and what they did this year was CRAZY!

It appears most of the factory backed cars didnt do too well?? The Honda's/BMW's/Mazda's crashed or broke it appears.

I wouldnt consider the OLD GT3 cup car to be "factory backed".. The team owner is the only one with money..LOL I know the rest of them...


Trekkor,

the thought has been a 1.7 914 well prepared. No joke.. or Boxster..LOL



B

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:32 AM

Yep, they took the license plate off in the paddock


KT

Posted by: grantsfo Dec 4 2006, 11:32 AM

Trekkor, 710's are not track tires!

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:35 AM

Rumor in the paddock, the winner had $160,000 in the car.

If a 914 runs the 25, I want in on the crew


KT

Posted by: grantsfo Dec 4 2006, 11:40 AM

I'm thinking a lotus Exige would be the ticket or how about a Toyota Yaris Cup car with a supercharger. Both of these Toyota powered cars sip gas, are fairly easy on tires and brakes and have bullet proof motors.

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:43 AM

Kuhmo provided $3500 worth of 710's and some Victoracers as rains.

I was very interested to talk to the drivers about their impression of the tires.

They ALL loved them. They couldn't believe how well they stuck.
I saw ( touched ) the takeoff's from the first 7 hour stint. The left front was chunked and corded, but the rest looked just like mine do now.
A little into the wear bars.

I think they actually cycled the first tires back into the rotation.

710's are really good.
I'll be running on Sunday at TH. I want to put my 710's against my Hoosier's throughout the day for time comparison.


KT

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 12:41 PM

Let me know how many sets they went through.

I'll let you know how many Hoosiers people went through.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 12:44 PM

Of course he did.. that is what a "freshened" cup car sells for!! when they are 3 years old



B

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 07:48 PM

My mistake, it was the right front.
They only used two sets of 710's for the race.

They did use the takeoff rears as right fronts later.


KT

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 4 2006, 08:00 PM

well I guess that makes my decision for me....

new fresh 710s for next season...

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 4 2006, 08:56 PM

i was actually surprised how cheap a number of seats went for. i heard a number of seats going for 2500~ish. i'd love to do this.

what would it take to run a 914 1.7?

prepped car $10k
numerous parts, 1 complete parts car $1.5k
3 1.7 engines/transaxles (ready to drop/replace) $1.5k
2 sets of tires $1k
fuel, brake pads/rotors, misc: $1k
914club labor: $0

turning 2:25's when the rest of the field is turning 2:05's.... priceless


'course, at lot easier to just run a miata....

Posted by: jgara962 Dec 4 2006, 10:17 PM

That's exactly it, you would be running 2:25's and running hard to do that in a 1.7L. Our Integra was running conservative 2:10's in E2.

We were pitted next to a team running a Datsun 240Z, and at about 3:00 a.m. found myself thinking about how a 914 with big 6 would do against the 911's in the fastest class. If anything, it would be great to see a 914 out there running around.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 4 2006, 10:35 PM

The whole idea would be a "club" activity.

I know what chassis/car we could use "Julius" the orange car I built several years ago.

4 sets of tires..
2 engines stock injected
2 tranny's (MSX boxes)

Yes a 6 cyl car would be more fun... but engines/tranny's would cost alot aftewards. We would just EBAY the 1.7's afterwards!!

Not sure what size tires they were running Trek (710's) but the math doesnt add up to $3500 if they only ran two sets and were "sponsored" by Kuhmo.


B

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:38 PM

They ran 205/50/15's

they had sets of Victoracer's, too, which they did not use, in case it rained.

They must have had 24 tires available...I'll inquire some more from another driver of Team Kuhmo.


KT

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 4 2006, 11:40 PM

would they like to unload any of those unused tires?

I know a car or two that could run those sizes

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:51 PM

The Miata normally runs Toyos for spec racing.
I wonder if those tires could be had


KT

Posted by: trekkor Dec 4 2006, 11:58 PM

If a 914 does run next year. It would be really great if someone with a wireless laptop was broadcasting live updates/video/interviews to the clubsite.

this is something that was lacking this year.


KT

BTW, a 25 hour track car should have 3.0 SIX or a Raby special
( sponsored )

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 5 2006, 12:08 AM

big bore short stroker....stump pulling torque...
Built for longevity Raby motor....that would get him some recognition.

we would need to get at least 5 or 6 of us licensed in Nasa to do W2W.

Tony C full cage to suspension pick up points.

the mind runs wild...if LNS can give it a shot with a 30+ year old car then I guess the 914 crowd could too.

Couldn't do any worse than alot of those factory backed ricers did.

Posted by: nine14cats Dec 5 2006, 12:14 AM

I've talked to a few folks about mounting a 914Club entry. We have enough race drivers in the paddock to try it out.

My thoughts were to run a 1.7 narrow body car. We could bring 2 or 3 engines/ tranny combos and assorted bits. A 1.7 car would run ~2:35's in traffic, maybe 2:30's. We could run in daylight, shut down in the evening, all go have dinner and a movie, come back and watch for a while then go back to the hotel and sleep in a nice WARM bed and start back up at first light in the morning.

When we're done, we just gather up our bits and leave.

It's doable, but I think if we wanted to do it budget conscious and plan it right, we would target for the 2008 event, not next year's.

Bill P.

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 5 2006, 12:21 AM

OK, Bill,

are we going to totally redo the GGR points system or are we going to build a 25 hour car?

Posted by: trekkor Dec 5 2006, 12:33 AM

Talk about "the dark side"...


KT

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Dec 5 2006, 12:52 AM

Trek, it is only really Dark for about 6-8 hours.

Posted by: trekkor Dec 5 2006, 12:58 AM

True.


I will support any 914 entry.


KT

Posted by: KenH Dec 5 2006, 10:34 AM

OK – Lets think about this.

Reference: 2:25 lap times for the full 25 Hours = 619 laps

Reality – Pit stops, Etc.:

24 Hours = 595 laps

23 Hours = 570 laps

22 Hours = 545 laps

That’s up to 3 hours of down time.

If you check the scoring shown at http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=317973

These times would put the car in the middle of the pack – which would not be a bad showing for a vintage 914.

If it was a 2.0 the number of laps would even be better.

Ken

Posted by: jgara962 Dec 5 2006, 10:45 AM

Now you're talking

Posted by: trekkor Dec 5 2006, 10:52 AM

*Update*

The #68 team Kuhmo, used 3 sets of the 710's of the four sets given them and did not use any of the Victo's.

KT

Posted by: grantsfo Dec 5 2006, 10:54 AM

Very impressive for an "AX" tire. ...Or should I say a soft compound road race tire now?

Posted by: trekkor Dec 5 2006, 11:41 AM

http://www.shedracing.com/2006_25hours

Fun write-up and pictures.


KT

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 01:06 PM

Their blistering problem is EXACTLY what ALL of who have ran them have found.

I totally agree they kick ass.. they just dont last on the HEAVY cars. They appear to work just fine on the lighter cars (which is want I was pointing out many months ago) We also have NO idea if they were running what they ship. When we run these types of events.. we "get" unmarked tires that are typically "test" tires if we are sponsored.

B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 01:07 PM

Bill,

It can easily be done for 07.

We have the people. We have the talent. We have the resources.

I have multiple cars to choose from.. to build..

Julius is ready to go. It needs an engine. I have the MSX trans.

It already has TC Design cage and is SCCA legal.

The hardest part: the seat has to be movable..


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 01:10 PM

We could also build my lightweight car. I planned it to be a narrow body car with HPH flares I have already bought.

I also have a MSX LSD tranny (that we talked about)

I cant afford the engine for it...


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 01:58 PM

If we build something.. and not "borrow" a chassis. It would be for sale after the event so we could recover.

We built the 993 we ran last year in several months prior to the event. It was only tested one time by ME at Willow Springs prior to the 25hr. I found the gearbox problem, but it wasnt correctly repaired (which is why we lost)

FYI:

It "cost" 20k to run that car at the event. We had 2 paying drivers + Randy + Craig+Betim. This included the RV rental, entry fees, hotel, food, gas, plus $300 to each crew member.

Trekkor saw our pit area last year. We know how to do it. I can get a MONSTER 5th wheel with generator/heaters/work area. If I show up.. I'm going to show up PRO (even with a 914)

Here is Julius during Thill testing (I was testing different cooling openings. It has an airdam)

B


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Posted by: grantsfo Dec 5 2006, 02:17 PM

I'd pay for a driving seat in something like this which could be used to pay for part of a motor. By 2008 I should have some W2W under my belt. If I was involved I could probably muster some decent sponsorship as well.

I'd be very interested in helping to make this happen.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 02:28 PM

NASA requires that you run a couple of events prior to the race, but I know for a fact that Betim didnt run ANY NASA events all year. He just has a NASA license from Seattle.

I would pee my pants waiting for 08...LOL We could all NASA license at the same event. I'm ready with the Boxster "tomorrow" if need be.

I wouldnt even have to drive the event.. I could get a couple of other SCCA E-Prod guys like Ron Wicker as our "shoe" or even Bontempi depending on how much he weighs right now..LOL

Ron would pay + plus bring trailer. He is out of Napa.

Figure 5 drivers (or even 6 if you want to run all night)


B

Posted by: Mueller Dec 5 2006, 02:28 PM

Did Hatfield drive??

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 02:30 PM

The running local joke is that I would put a injected 1.7 in the lightweight car just to have something besides the Boxster to run at AutoX

I can get 2.0's also.. injected.. one fresh.. one "seasoned"


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 5 2006, 02:31 PM

Hatfield DID drive!!

We were on grid last year hanging out and BS'ing..

How about a V8 car with a stock GM aluminum headed crate engine??LOL


B

Posted by: Mueller Dec 5 2006, 03:26 PM

That's cool...I drove by his house about a month ago but I was with the wife and kids so I didn't stop by to see his latest projects....

Give me call....when you can...

Posted by: grantsfo Dec 5 2006, 10:02 PM

I'm curious what does it take to enter this event? While I'm a complete rookie I think I have ability to raise sponsorship, attract drivers and get a car. With goal of driving this event I think I could accelerate my W2W aspirations. This event looks like a blast.

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 5 2006, 10:45 PM

http://www.nasa25hour.com/rules.php

Need a race liscense and 8 races under your belt. entry fees are about $1100 per team. Brad's number of $20k for the event seems about right to me. With a car, 4-5 paying drivers, a volunteer crew, and a bit of sponsorship, it seems very realistic.

btw, grant, i have my '07 race schedule now...

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 01:00 AM

I can get us all in with just 4 races. I have worked with JerryK on this multiple times. He know's "of me" and knows Fordahl VERY well. Our 993 only had 2 NASA licensed peron.. the rest had "pro".. Betim was the only one with a "club" license and he ran NO events in 05 besides the 25hr. race.

It comes down to your experience. Do you have 20+ track days of dealing with other people?? This is the type of stuff they want to know. Recent physical...blah blah.

A few more Kart events for Nathan and NASA would hand him a license with one checkout ride in HPDE Group 4.


I have been through this numerous times with SCCA/NASA/PCA..

POC is the only one that will not cut anyone any slack unless you have a IMSA license...


B

Posted by: McMark Dec 6 2006, 01:15 AM

I'll donate my labor to build two 2056s.

I'm not very familiar with the race, are most teams usually out for a few laps doing repairs? Including the winning teams?

Posted by: trekkor Dec 6 2006, 01:36 AM

Teams hope that the only reason to stop is for fuel, driver and tires.
( maybe front brake pads )

Anything else is a surprise.

A pit stop to do rust repair


KT

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 02:08 AM

We wouldnt need brakes or pads in a 1.7 car!!! LOL

Trek nailed it. Most well prepaired teams dont have major mechanical down time.

In 04 we replaced both rear axles on the Fordahl 993RSR in less than 13min. This is a small miracle!! You have to drop the rear wheel carriers/arms... two teams of three on either side of the car. We actually practiced it knowing damn well the axles wouldnt last for 25hrs.LOL Porsche Motorsports sells "24hr" axles.. they are not kidding..LOL


B

Posted by: mudfoot76 Dec 6 2006, 10:06 AM

Blasphemer!

I can see it now: "Introducing car #44, a '93 Mazda Miata sponsored by 914world.com"

As far as fuel consumption, doesn't a 1.7L already get good gas mileage in stock form?

Posted by: jgara962 Dec 6 2006, 01:30 PM

20K seems a little high. We were talking about it on the way home from this year's race, and figured it would be about 6K to campaign the M3 Lightweight that we came in 2nd with last year. That is for fuel, tires, entry fees, and doesn't include rooms, food, paying the crew guys anything. That's just getting the car on the track. But I don't imagine the other things could add up to more than a few thousand more.

I hope you guys can get it together. It would be so cool to see a 914 out there!

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 04:25 PM

We brought two LARGE trucks and two large trailers from San Diego. It was over 1k in diesel fuel!! PLUS the RV and fuel.

Race gas was almost 3k.. I dont recall how many 55 gallon drums we went thru @ $5+ PER gallon.

We had a crew of 10. Somebody was "almost" cooking on the grill at all times!!


B

Posted by: Crazyhippy Dec 6 2006, 04:46 PM

I'm so in to crew...

Send a 1.7 or 2 out to be freshened, carbs, cam... I might even be able to Donate a motor if needed (my old 1.7, if i can get it back cheap enough)

When do we start building?

BJH

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 04:52 PM

I have two cars to choose from. One needs to be welded + poweder coated... assembled. It had no windshield.. Ginther style, but has a legal cage. It needs some minor tube work+some kind of light floorboards.

The other is complete.. it needs an engine. It is the orange car above.

The only "major" thing it needs is a movable seat and wired for radio's.

So.. I can offer two options. Build the one I have with parts I have.. or go with a proven car. It doesnt have all the trick stuff in it like roller bearings and such, but it is a good solid car with only a few track events on it. It still has the stock radio in it!! NO RUST.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 04:53 PM

Ha ha.. keep it simple.. run a single weber progressive 2 barrel carb on a 1.7



B

Posted by: Crazyhippy Dec 6 2006, 04:56 PM

Mines still FI...

Are the HP gains from a new cam worth going to carbs and losing some MPG??

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 04:58 PM

The whole idea is a throw away engine with NO mods. Just strong/decent with little to NO leaks. Not that big of deal to reseal an engine.

I wouldnt want to fight the carbs for 25hrs. It is super cold each year up there.


B

Posted by: nine14cats Dec 6 2006, 05:11 PM

That's why I say we gather together 2 or 3 1.7's, a few extra 901's, assorted 914 bits and do it the 914Club way...on a budget.

As the club moves more "big time" we'll have an opportunity to build a specific car that can compete (i.e. The Beast™) and to show up with RV's and tractor trailers...we could just show up like we do normally and run in the show. And I say we park the car at night and all go into town for dinner and a movie and sleep in a nice WARM room and bed, then come out the next morning and start running again.

It gives the car a break and if we have 4 to 6 drivers, instead of (3) 2 hour stints each you could either do single 2 hours stints or 2 (1) hour stints. Club members with W2W experience could drive a stint, then become part of the pit crew for the remainder of the event.

We wouldn't have maximum laps, but we'd have a pretty good shot at still being one of the teams still running at the end of the event.

Bill P.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 05:24 PM

Hum.. where I have heard this before??

Go see a movie with Tony Heyer?? LOL

OK. Done.

Do we have to wait for 08 to run this setup?

I'll license as soon as possible with them.

My buddy Tim asked if I would run a GT3cup car with "914Club" on it back on Monday.. then somebody mentioned "Miata" here with 914club.. funny guy's!


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 05:28 PM

Betim sent me a TXT this morning..

Told me to let the forum know that HIS shop prepped the GT3Cup car prior to the event (this is how he paid for his seat in the car)

Obviously a little birdy watching this thread told him we were "chatting" about him.



B

Posted by: anthony Dec 6 2006, 05:31 PM

I'm just curious about the drivers paying for a seat. What is the protocol?

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 05:36 PM

Depends on the effort.

Typical seat in a winning effort will be 3-5k per driver depending on how many drivers you want.

Some people bring cash.
Some bring tires
Some bring sponsors
Some supply the car
Some supply the transport
Some supply the crew

The options are limitless.


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 05:37 PM

Or do you mean: how do you go about signing up for a seat?


B

Posted by: Crazyhippy Dec 6 2006, 05:47 PM

Who brings the strippers??

Or is it a BYO sorta thing??

Find the right car, and we could do the 24hrs of lemons, and then the 25 @ t-hill both

BJH

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 05:50 PM

The strippers are brought from Sacremento Sat. night during the race.

Typically we go to Chico... (cause it was ranked no.1 party school by Playboy for umteen years in a row!!!)

The only issue chicks have with attending the event: it is COLD sometimes..

Like this cold... in 2004



B


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Posted by: anthony Dec 6 2006, 06:33 PM

Didn't mean that. What you said before was what I thought but it kind of sounded like a specific racing term or something.

So basically, the cost to run is shared by drivers if it's an amateur team.

Obviously, I assume, the drivers on the Pro teams are being paid.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 06:52 PM

*Most* of the time.. the Professional drivers are driving for free. Typically they wont do this unless you have a winning combination ready to go. We floated them 1k each and took care of all hotel/air-fare and such.

They know this is grassroots style.. it is kind viewed as "their" way to give back to the racing community..

Ever wonder how bad ass a Pro is?

Take this into consideration about Randy Pobst:

Our car was stuck in 5th gear.. he was still 3 seconds a lap faster than the Lost in Space drivers. Both cars powered by stock 3.6L engines. I would imagine our car was heavier considering we started with a 993. We where on BIG slicks however!

3 seconds.. stuck in 5th gear. He was laughing on the radio with us because he was being "pulled" out of turn 6 by Miata's..LOL he would catch and pass them again..


B

Posted by: jgara962 Dec 6 2006, 07:17 PM

Your right, we're kind of talking apples and oranges. We had one tripple axle trailer from Marin, a crew of six (all working for free ) and I think we only went through 3+ 55 gallon drums of gas. I can't imagine the cost of gas just for the trucks and tailers from So Cal!

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 07:33 PM

We basically have to move the shop with us..lol

The large trailer carried nothing but spares+wheels+pit equipment. I brought the car up by myself and nothing else in the trailer.

Nevermind I ran to Paul Guards house and bought new friction plates for our ZF limited slip and had Gamroth on the phone trying to get them installed correctly the night before the race..LOL hard to drink beer when your hands are cold...


B

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 6 2006, 08:02 PM

i still say it could be a serious expense, but with enough volunteers and semi-free engines/parts, i could concede it being a 10k effort (minus price of the car). getting an RV (or two) is the only way to go. drivers need cat-naps.

as brad said, from what i've heard, most pros aren't being paid, but their expenses are certainly taken care of. the 25hours ain't grand-am (where pros could earn 5-10k per race).

how quick can we do an engine/transaxle R/R? i'm betting that if we practice, it could take less than 20 minutes. for a 1.7, i don't think we'd need LSD, but short gears would be a help.

Posted by: Tom A Dec 6 2006, 08:36 PM

Team Kumho/BiggsB/Miller checking in. In no particular order:

The tires were standard 710s. They rocked. First time I ever raced on anything other than Toyos, and I can't believe how much better they are.

The right front took 7.5 hours before it started to fall apart. You can see photos of the RF tire that started to delaminate here:
http://images.miller-motorsports.com/Default.asp?fldr=2006%5F25hour
Even with the tire coming apart, the car was still turning 02:12s.

Our budget was WELL under Brad's estimate.
Even if we added in the cost of the car we would still be well under Brad's estimate.

I haven't got the total from the car owner yet, but we were expecting it to be under $1500 per driver for 4 drivers. One driver doesn't have to pay because he is the one who came through with the tire sponsorship. Using Tire Rack prices, the tires (710s plus Victoracers) are worth ~$3200. Without the Kumho deal, we would have run Toyos, and probably had 3 sets, 2 sets of drys and one of rains, same as we ran last year.

I don't know if was the same this year, but last year they were very strict on the "no rookie" thing. One of our guys ended up running to Buttonwillow to run a 4 race weekend just to make sure he had the 8 races covered.

Do 914s really turn 2:25s? 1.7 914s are SCCA ITC cars, and the SFR ITC class runs 2:16-17 over the top of T5. I would think 2:17-18 is well in reach for a well sorted 914 running an endurance pace with the bypass.

Then again, a ITC car would run in E3 class in the 25, so if you would have entered this year, you would have won your class. No E3 cars entered this year, only 3 entered last year.

Tom

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 6 2006, 08:45 PM

We qualified our car last year on the outside of POLE it runs a just a little more to run a 993 Porsche than it does a Miata..LOL



How far off pace was your best driver compared to the best time for a Miata at THILL?? in that config?

B

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 6 2006, 09:21 PM

unfortunately, yes -- an ITC 1.7 914 (about 65 hp to the rear wheels; weight of 2100lbs with driver) would turn 2,25's over the top, maybe 2,20's (at best) with the bypass. if we can run in E3 with a lower weight, then there's hope for more, but still... it's that slow. significantly slower than other ITC cars i've ridden in (CRX; 510). there should be no need to lift going into 1.

congrats on your race!

Posted by: jgara962 Dec 6 2006, 09:27 PM

That's our M3 right behind you!

Posted by: nebreitling Dec 6 2006, 09:49 PM

hell no! that's not an endurance race -- the idea is to survive, not kick back with HBO!

how many do we have that ARE licensed or COULD COMMIT to being lisensed for december 2007?

i could commit if they'd take me (IKF shifter license, and I'd be happy to rent a ride in a race to demonstrate comfort and competency as brad suggested-- but there's no way i can run 8 nasa races next year and keep up with my karting schedule). Brad? Grant? Bill? Randal?

Posted by: Tom A Dec 6 2006, 10:15 PM

Our best time was a 2:08.526. Last time NASA raced there, the pole was 2:07.2 by Dave Vodden (the CEO of Thunderhill) on Toyos, I believe. It isn't really apples to apples though, his car has a built engine, and ours came from a junkyard. Plus, it's his track

Our RX7 was only 22 rows behind you.

Tom

Posted by: trekkor Dec 6 2006, 10:26 PM

Thanks for posting, Tom.

It was great watching your team race.





KT

Posted by: MattR Dec 7 2006, 01:14 AM

wasnt me. i havent talked to betim since before baja when i spent the day helping prepare a car that got smashed... that was a bummer.

2 weeks after being tossed around in a class one baja crashed at 120 mph the kid goes out and wins the 25 hour in a car he prepared.

Betim is a really good guy and I hang out with him as often as I can.

Posted by: MattR Dec 7 2006, 01:17 AM

BTW, I know whats in the old FLM car. Its packed with GT3 R shit and its a quick car. It won 24 hours of daytona back in 03 when they first built it I think. 160k sounds fair to rebuild it, but i doubt its worth that now. Old cup cars go for under 100k with a used motor.

Posted by: Tom A Dec 7 2006, 12:01 PM

Yeah, but it doesn't have to cost that much more. Look at the Lost N Spaced guys, they had an RV, (maybe 2) and an enclosed trailer. They had a 911 SC on jackstands to rob parts from if they needed to. They were running ES class, so they needed more pit equipment than a car running E0 or below, but I would be surprised if they spent $20K.

We had one RV that belonged to one of our volunteer crew, one rented RV, one Horse trailer that one of the crew guys borrowed. We had a few EZ-Ups. We used 2 open trailers, one parts car that belongs to one of the drivers. We brought the regular spares you would bring for a standard SM race weekend, plus a spare tranny and rear end. We took the same tools that go to each race, plus an extra air compressor, air tools and a welder. We burned ~160 gallons of gas ($640), and 4 or 5 quarts of oil.

A group of 914 guys could put together an effort pretty easily, pooling resources you probably already have and probably keep costs down to ~$5000, maybe less depending on how much you want to spend on crew comfort.

The Honda Fit that ran E3 last year was turning laps in the low 2:20s, they turned 546 laps, which was good enough for 26th place overall and second in class behind a Rabbit GTI Cup/ITB car. 546 laps this year would be about the same place overall, but first in class unopposed.
Thanks, it was a lot of fun.

Tom

Posted by: mudfoot76 Dec 7 2006, 12:30 PM

So we really should be getting two (or more?) 914s ready for next year so we can claim we swept the class!

Posted by: Tom A Dec 7 2006, 02:08 PM

Get three, then do a formation finish.

Tom

Posted by: trekkor Dec 7 2006, 03:36 PM

Oh yes!!






KT

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 7 2006, 05:08 PM

I hear you Tom. I have been involved with 3 different teams up until this year. In 05 I cooridinated about 90% of the effort. Of course it can be done cheaper, but trying to coordinate and get everything from San Diego costs money.

The LNS guy's are coming from the bay area.. they dont have to bring the shop with them like we do. If they break something.. they "CAN" quit and be home within 2.5 hours. We break something.. and quit.. we wont be home for another 14 hours.

No matter how we spin it.. the LNS guy's have it DOWN.


B