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914World.com _ The Paddock _ Hoosier A6 versus Kumho V710's
Posted by: nine14cats Dec 6 2006, 03:22 PM
We in Northern California appear to have lost our best AX site for the short term at Alameda Naval station. Nice large grippy concrete that provides great traction. As the majority of events were held there over the past several years, I had decided next year to try out the Hoosier A6's to match the Hoosier R6's I have for the track.
We will now be rotating around the region at more traditional venues such as Candlestick Park in San Francisco. The stadium parking lot does offer elevation changes, but the surface is asphalt that is often torn up and full of glass and sharp metal. Also, the surface is cooler in temperature than Alameda.
The change in sites has lead me to re-evaluate if I should try the Kumho V710's or even run the Victoracers or V70A's. Does anyone have first hand experience running these tires on asphalt? I don't want to use the A6's or the V710's and tear them up if they have trouble with the asphalt and/or loose shittage of a football stadium parking lot versus smooth concrete.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Bill P.
Posted by: grantsfo Dec 6 2006, 04:17 PM
I have run Hoosier A5's, Kumho Victoracers and 710's at all the local venues except Candlestick.
I could drive the A5's very quickly once they were warm. Funny thing about Hoosiers it always seemed to take a few corners before they really began to stick (much more noticeable than other tires I have run). When Hoosiers were warm they stuck better than anything. One consideration is the Hoosiers pickup a ton of crap when run at places like Marina - maybe that would be a factor at Candlestick? 710's seem to stick better from very beginning of the run, but don't offer that incredible Hoosier grip. The 710's still pickup garbage, but it seemed to me that they didn't pickup as much as the Hoosier A5's.
Victoracers for me were substandard AX tires when compared to the DOT R slicks. I doubt any amount of broken surface is going to make them superior over the A6 Hoosier or the 710. Victoracers were impossible to get warm on cold days - (70 to 80 degree tire temps). I run same size 710s and they shoot into over 100 degree range fairly quickly with same suspension setup.
I think more important with our venues is finding tire that offers best heat characteristics on cold foggy days. Some of those cement surfaces suck the heat out of tires. The tire I found to work best on real cold surfaces was the old Yoko A032R Softs. They never would offer the grip of the 710 or the A5, but they stuck decently from the first gate to the last on cold days. I'm surprised a tire manufacturer hasn't made a cold weather AX tire - something that doesnt need as much heat to offer grip, but would not tolerate track surfaces much over 75 to 80 degrees.
Posted by: Randal Dec 6 2006, 04:38 PM
We in Northern California appear to have lost our best AX site for the short term at Alameda Naval station. Nice large grippy concrete that provides great traction. As the majority of events were held there over the past several years, I had decided next year to try out the Hoosier A6's to match the Hoosier R6's I have for the track.
We will now be rotating around the region at more traditional venues such as Candlestick Park in San Francisco. The stadium parking lot does offer elevation changes, but the surface is asphalt that is often torn up and full of glass and sharp metal. Also, the surface is cooler in temperature than Alameda.
The change in sites has lead me to re-evaluate if I should try the Kumho V710's or even run the Victoracers or V70A's. Does anyone have first hand experience running these tires on asphalt? I don't want to use the A6's or the V710's and tear them up if they have trouble with the asphalt and/or loose shittage of a football stadium parking lot versus smooth concrete.
Thanks in advance for the help.
"We in Northern California appear to have lost our best AX site for the short term at Alameda Naval station"
What is the latest news Bill?
Bill P.
Posted by: Randal Dec 6 2006, 04:52 PM
We in Northern California appear to have lost our best AX site for the short term at Alameda Naval station. Nice large grippy concrete that provides great traction. As the majority of events were held there over the past several years, I had decided next year to try out the Hoosier A6's to match the Hoosier R6's I have for the track.
We will now be rotating around the region at more traditional venues such as Candlestick Park in San Francisco. The stadium parking lot does offer elevation changes, but the surface is asphalt that is often torn up and full of glass and sharp metal. Also, the surface is cooler in temperature than Alameda.
The change in sites has lead me to re-evaluate if I should try the Kumho V710's or even run the Victoracers or V70A's. Does anyone have first hand experience running these tires on asphalt? I don't want to use the A6's or the V710's and tear them up if they have trouble with the asphalt and/or loose shittage of a football stadium parking lot versus smooth concrete.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Bill P.
My experience with Candlestick is that once the AutoX course gets a clean track around it, from say 15 or more runs, that you get excellant traction.
But get off line and your going to spin.
The other issue with Candlestick is that the surface is generally rough; it will wear tires faster.
Also if the course designer doesn't pay attention, the course can have some very big and dramatic elevation changes. Last time we were there the back side of the course had such a feature, and watching the boxster's go over this part looked like they were in an off road race.
I've broken my suspension twice at Candlestick.
On the other hand don't see Hank's courses having this problem, given that he sets them up on the flat bits.
Posted by: nine14cats Dec 6 2006, 05:02 PM
At this point in time PCA's permit to operate at the Naval Station has expired. Last time it expired it took about a year to renew through the Naval Station administration. I do not know the reason why it expired and we have to progress in a serial fashion. It seems like an interruption in use could be avoidable.
But we're dealing with a local government, so I say it sounds about right. Since you can't hold your breath on when we get the new permit and we need to book now for the 2007, by default we move away from the site.
I actually don't mind other sites, but Candlestick and Golden Gate Fields chew up tires. And they have alot of debris. I'm leaning now towards the Kumho side for AX. I'll have to do more research on how tough they are against beer bottles and bottle caps! 
Bill P.
Posted by: Randal Dec 6 2006, 05:44 PM
At this point in time PCA's permit to operate at the Naval Station has expired. Last time it expired it took about a year to renew through the Naval Station administration. I do not know the reason why it expired and we have to progress in a serial fashion. It seems like an interruption in use could be avoidable.
But we're dealing with a local government, so I say it sounds about right. Since you can't hold your breath on when we get the new permit and we need to book now for the 2007, by default we move away from the site.
I actually don't mind other sites, but Candlestick and Golden Gate Fields chew up tires. And they have alot of debris. I'm leaning now towards the Kumho side for AX. I'll have to do more research on how tough they are against beer bottles and bottle caps!
Bill P.
We need one of these to put behind my tractor.
http://www.theodbco.com/products/rmb500.htm
Posted by: nine14cats Dec 6 2006, 05:47 PM
At this point in time PCA's permit to operate at the Naval Station has expired. Last time it expired it took about a year to renew through the Naval Station administration. I do not know the reason why it expired and we have to progress in a serial fashion. It seems like an interruption in use could be avoidable.
But we're dealing with a local government, so I say it sounds about right. Since you can't hold your breath on when we get the new permit and we need to book now for the 2007, by default we move away from the site.
I actually don't mind other sites, but Candlestick and Golden Gate Fields chew up tires. And they have alot of debris. I'm leaning now towards the Kumho side for AX. I'll have to do more research on how tough they are against beer bottles and bottle caps!
Bill P.
We need one of these to put behind my tractor.
http://www.theodbco.com/products/rmb500.htm
Now that is a slick idea!
Posted by: grantsfo Dec 6 2006, 06:02 PM
At this point in time PCA's permit to operate at the Naval Station has expired. Last time it expired it took about a year to renew through the Naval Station administration. I do not know the reason why it expired and we have to progress in a serial fashion. It seems like an interruption in use could be avoidable.
But we're dealing with a local government, so I say it sounds about right. Since you can't hold your breath on when we get the new permit and we need to book now for the 2007, by default we move away from the site.
I actually don't mind other sites, but Candlestick and Golden Gate Fields chew up tires. And they have alot of debris. I'm leaning now towards the Kumho side for AX. I'll have to do more research on how tough they are against beer bottles and bottle caps!
Bill P.
We need one of these to put behind my tractor.
http://www.theodbco.com/products/rmb500.htm
Or one of these in the bed of my truck.
Posted by: Randal Dec 6 2006, 06:42 PM
At this point in time PCA's permit to operate at the Naval Station has expired. Last time it expired it took about a year to renew through the Naval Station administration. I do not know the reason why it expired and we have to progress in a serial fashion. It seems like an interruption in use could be avoidable.
But we're dealing with a local government, so I say it sounds about right. Since you can't hold your breath on when we get the new permit and we need to book now for the 2007, by default we move away from the site.
I actually don't mind other sites, but Candlestick and Golden Gate Fields chew up tires. And they have alot of debris. I'm leaning now towards the Kumho side for AX. I'll have to do more research on how tough they are against beer bottles and bottle caps!
Bill P.
We need one of these to put behind my tractor.
http://www.theodbco.com/products/rmb500.htm
Or one of these in the bed of my truck.
I wonder if they would pick up gravel, like at Candlestick and or the Marina?
Hey, those guys are in Santa Clara.
Posted by: trekkor Dec 6 2006, 06:59 PM
It only costs around $100 to bring a sweeper truck out in the morning.
PCA has deep pockets. I've always wonder why they haven't always done this? 
During the driver's meeting the truck could make 3 or 4 passes and be done.
They pick up *everything*.
They run them on airport runways just for gravel.
KT
Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Dec 6 2006, 07:09 PM
I've broken my suspension twice at Candlestick.
Posted by: trekkor Dec 6 2006, 07:48 PM
I can't stand-lestick.
I watched video from there. Swore I would not drive it.
Drove it, swore I would not go back.
What will I do?
I like the course at Santa Rosa, mostly asphalt with concrete transitions.
710's hook up there nicely.
710's love Marina.
Oh and, 710's last waaaaaay longer before the cords show.
KT
Posted by: Randal Dec 6 2006, 07:58 PM
I can't stand-lestick.
I watched video from there. Swore I would not drive it.
Drove it, swore I would not go back.
What will I do?
I like the course at Santa Rosa, mostly asphalt with concrete transitions.
710's hook up there nicely.
710's love Marina.
Oh and, 710's last waaaaaay longer before the cords show.
KT
Run with your sweeper Trekkor. That is all we need
Posted by: trekkor Dec 7 2006, 10:42 AM
I never heard the story about the broken suspension. Tell us again.
GG Fields...From the pics I saw and the one time I spectated back in '04, it was like and a/x on a gravel road. 
Are ther other venues that are beings considered, like the Oakland coliseum lot? SCCA plays there.
KT
Posted by: Randal Dec 7 2006, 01:17 PM
I never heard the story about the broken suspension. Tell us again.
GG Fields...From the pics I saw and the one time I spectated back in '04, it was like and a/x on a gravel road.
Are ther other venues that are beings considered, like the Oakland coliseum lot? SCCA plays there.
KT
Broken suspension: Split the ear holding the trailing arm.
GG fields is big enough, but the gravel is unbelievable.
Hey, Mr. Mechanical, I wonder which sweeper works best, i.e., the one behind the tractor that pushes everything off to the side, or a vacuum?
Posted by: trekkor Dec 7 2006, 03:43 PM
Vacuum, definitely.
the blower would just move it around, knock down the cones and disturb any chalk boxes/lines that may be down.
I already checked into this for RR/PCA, but they balked.
Santa Rosa has it's own share of wicked gravel...
KT
Posted by: Randal Dec 8 2006, 12:03 PM
Vacuum, definitely.
the blower would just move it around, knock down the cones and disturb any chalk boxes/lines that may be down.
I already checked into this for RR/PCA, but they balked.
Santa Rosa has it's own share of wicked gravel...
KT
Trekkor - vacuum or brush, i.e., like the kind that I could put behind my tractor (on a three point hitch) that sweep everything to one side.
They are a lot cheaper than vacuums.
Check this link http://www.theodbco.com/products/rmb500.htm
Posted by: Randal Dec 8 2006, 12:16 PM
Vacuum, definitely.
the blower would just move it around, knock down the cones and disturb any chalk boxes/lines that may be down.
I already checked into this for RR/PCA, but they balked.
Santa Rosa has it's own share of wicked gravel...
KT
Trekkor - vacuum or brush, i.e., like the kind that I could put behind my tractor (on a three point hitch) that sweep everything to one side.
They are a lot cheaper than vacuums.
Check this link http://www.theodbco.com/products/rmb500.htm
Here is a great tool to clean off anything, but it would have to be done before the cones are thrown out. Given the time we have it probably wouldn't work:
http://www.buffaloturbine.com/KB3.htm
Posted by: trekkor Dec 8 2006, 01:38 PM
I'm talking about hiring a truck mounted parking lot sweeper service to come do it for us while we are in the drivers meeting.
It's $100...We do nothing. ( except pay ) 
KT
Posted by: grantsfo Dec 8 2006, 02:01 PM
I'm talking about hiring a truck mounted parking lot sweeper service to come do it for us while we are in the drivers meeting.
It's $100...We do nothing. ( except pay )
KT
That makes the most sense to me.
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