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914World.com _ The Paddock _ Saving weight in late model doors
Posted by: moggy Aug 31 2008, 04:20 PM
Hi guys
Looking to save some weight out of the late doors (i.e. the ones with the iron gurder in). I already have perspex windows. I can't go fibreblass due to regs. I don't want to put early doors on there as this would mean finding a good set over here in the UK (which is a problem) and then having to spray them up - a route I really wanna avoid. Therefore I need to lighten the doors I've presently got on the car. I also need to keep the winder mechanism. Is it even possible to cut that impact bar out of the door without having to cut all the winder mounts out of the door and/or the cutting/grinding affecting the paint on the outside of the door (wanna avoid getting the spray gun out if I can help it).
Now I could just start attacking it- this is my usual practise - however before I do I though it would be a good idea to find out from all you racers how (or if) you've lightened a set of late model doors before. Any pictures of them lightened up so I can follow in your footsteps.
Also, whats the best method for removing all the crappy tar from the floor? any tips. Tried to get some off today, couldn't see any obvious easy ways to do it. Looks a real messy and long job. How much weight does this actually save anyway, after all that hassle.
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 31 2008, 05:34 PM
Hi guys
Looking to save some weight out of the late doors (i.e. the ones with the iron gurder in). I already have perspex windows. I can't go fibreblass due to regs. I don't want to put early doors on there as this would mean finding a good set over here in the UK (which is a problem) and then having to spray them up - a route I really wanna avoid. Therefore I need to lighten the doors I've presently got on the car. I also need to keep the winder mechanism. Is it even possible to cut that impact bar out of the door without having to cut all the winder mounts out of the door and/or the cutting/grinding affecting the paint on the outside of the door (wanna avoid getting the spray gun out if I can help it).
Now I could just start attacking it- this is my usual practise - however before I do I though it would be a good idea to find out from all you racers how (or if) you've lightened a set of late model doors before. Any pictures of them lightened up so I can follow in your footsteps.
Also, whats the best method for removing all the crappy tar from the floor? any tips. Tried to get some off today, couldn't see any obvious easy ways to do it. Looks a real messy and long job. How much weight does this actually save anyway, after all that hassle.
Can't help with the doors but with the tar use a heat lamp get the tar soft. Use a putty knife and it will come up well. It is a pain in the ass but it should save you about 50 or so lbs.
Posted by: mikez Aug 31 2008, 07:48 PM
heat guns are a REAL mess, ask me how I know.....
Rotary "flails" are the best....wear eye protection.
Posted by: Todd Enlund Sep 1 2008, 12:16 AM
I used a propane torch and a putty knife... came up like butter. I must not have heated it as hot as Z did. I started with a flail, but that crap went EVERYWHERE.
It weighs a lot... but I don't think mine was near 50 lbs... my car is a '71 though...
Surprisingly, I have taken almost 15 pounds of dirt out of my car so far, most of it under the rocker panels, under the fuel tank, headlight wells...
Posted by: naro914 Sep 1 2008, 07:10 AM
A majority of the "door bars" actually comes off pretty easily. They are only attatched at the end seam welds, so you can cut them with a rotary angle wheel (or whatever they are called) as close too the welds as possible. You'll end up leaving a bit there on the ends, but not a lot.
Now, here's the hard part: you need to get to it, and the only way I found to get to it is remove the inside door "frame" metal. That is where all the window mechanism stuff mounts too. Unless you have real skinny arms that can fit through the frame holes, you need to remove at least parts of it. I gutted mine completely. I'll post pictures when I get by the shop tomorrow.
Posted by: moggy Sep 1 2008, 03:40 PM
A majority of the "door bars" actually comes off pretty easily. They are only attatched at the end seam welds, so you can cut them with a rotary angle wheel (or whatever they are called) as close too the welds as possible. You'll end up leaving a bit there on the ends, but not a lot.
Now that's EXACTLY what I needed to know. Thanks Bob. Would appreciate the pics if you have the time.
Cheers
Moggy
Posted by: SirAndy Sep 1 2008, 04:31 PM
Tackle the tar with a heat gun. The trick is to not get it too hot. It doesn't take much heat to make the tar soft, just keep the gun at a distance and go over large areas.
Then, use a putty knife to just lift the tar up in large chunks ... I got about 40lbs of tar out of my '70 /4 ...
Andy
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Posted by: naro914 Sep 1 2008, 05:25 PM
A majority of the "door bars" actually comes off pretty easily. They are only attatched at the end seam welds, so you can cut them with a rotary angle wheel (or whatever they are called) as close too the welds as possible. You'll end up leaving a bit there on the ends, but not a lot.
Now that's EXACTLY what I needed to know. Thanks Bob. Would appreciate the pics if you have the time.
Cheers
Moggy
No problem, I'll take them Tuesday, (got other pictures to take of things I have for sale). and wow, are those bars heavy. At least 20-25 lbs EACH door. The doors feel so light now.
Posted by: naro914 Sep 1 2008, 05:26 PM
Tackle the tar with a heat gun. The trick is to not get it too hot. It doesn't take much heat to make the tar soft, just keep the gun at a distance and go over large areas.
Then, use a putty knife to just lift the tar up in large chunks ... I got about 40lbs of tar out of my '70 /4 ...
Andy40 lbs? Wow, I've just started taking all that out of the race car and it doesn't seem near that much. 5-10 lbs at most.
Posted by: naro914 Sep 2 2008, 12:37 PM
A majority of the "door bars" actually comes off pretty easily. They are only attatched at the end seam welds, so you can cut them with a rotary angle wheel (or whatever they are called) as close too the welds as possible. You'll end up leaving a bit there on the ends, but not a lot.
Now that's EXACTLY what I needed to know. Thanks Bob. Would appreciate the pics if you have the time.
Cheers
Moggy
Here are pictures of where I cut the "bars" in the door. Also makes me realize how much surface rust I have in those doors...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: moggy Sep 3 2008, 11:41 AM
Superb. Thanks Bob 
Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 5 2008, 09:24 PM
Not sure if this is an option for you, but how about drilling the doors also? This is my driver side door. I didn't do this, I bought the car this way.
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Posted by: J P Stein Sep 6 2008, 03:07 PM
I'm still looking for the *just right* bit to cap off the window opening. The exposed inner edge offends me.
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Posted by: moggy Sep 6 2008, 03:58 PM
40 lbs? Wow, I've just started taking all that out of the race car and it doesn't seem near that much. 5-10 lbs at most.
Just finished taking the tar out.... alot easier than I thought. Exactly 10lbs of it to be exact. My car is a 1973 for reference.
Attacking the doors tomorrow
Posted by: moggy Sep 7 2008, 02:30 PM
Doors are done 
Basically the total weight of the 2 side impact bars which were taken out is 25pounds.
I've now managed to take out 125lbs in weight in total, relatively easily. This includes:
16.8 lbs - Perpex windows
21 lbs - f/g Bonnet
21 lbs - f/g Boot
24.5 lbs - Various bits (including exhaust heat shield, cross pieces from engine lid, brackets, rear valence....etc)
10.5 lbs - floor tar
7 lbs - carpet, kick plates
24.5 lbs - side impact bars
This is in addition to the weight I've already shed when I first built the rally car which include front valence, f/g bumpers front and rear, sound proofing and all the other usual suspects
Be interested to find out what the car weighs in at now.
Posted by: brant Sep 7 2008, 09:40 PM
I had to keep my doors in metal also (for class legality)
but I wasn't allowed to use the fiberglass bonnetts..
my whole car is metal with a heavy aluminum -6 early case
but I was able to get to 1837 wet (19 quarts of oil and 4 U.S. gallons of fuel)
a few pics:
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Posted by: brant Sep 7 2008, 09:41 PM
also:
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Posted by: Todd Enlund Sep 7 2008, 11:16 PM
also:
That's crazy! Did you weigh what you removed form the hood?
If nothing else, it should help to intimidate the competition
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