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914World.com _ The Paddock _ Shock Options full race
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Jul 17 2009, 11:59 AM
Setup is full simi tube car 1775 appox, 10 and 12 LSD Boxster brakes Combo of high speed tracks and AX. Driving.
Hi guys starting stage three of the upgrades to my Spyder racecar. I am planning to add Adjustable front and rear shocks. The front should not be such a big deal the shocks on the car now are made by a Company called Carrera Shocks. The front’s inserts are much shorter than a Carrera or SC size inserted shock. It’s about 10.5 inch long. The rears are short about 12.5 “.
If you notice the rear shocks are inverted, I would like to find something that will mount with the shock bolt and damper location. What makes finding a replacement a challenge is that the stub that is welded onto my rear shocks is not commonly done and would have to be done before the shock is constructed. I would think that there are other ways of getting a inverted shock on a 914 using stock mounting locations.
Advice or suggestion welcomed.
Part two;
Another question I have is if you have a track only racecar that ran as a high output four banger with a very good setup, than converted it to a 3.6 which adds some weight & HP what guess would you make on how much to go up on front and or rear spring rates???
I am thinking 50pds per corner just for the weight but I need to add in the hard acceleration and cornering as well. What has anyone here tried?
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Posted by: Randal Jul 17 2009, 01:01 PM
What are you going to be doing with the car?
Driving on the street, autoxing, track days, hillclimbs or what?
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jul 17 2009, 02:09 PM
JRZs are the best you can get for the 914
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Jul 17 2009, 02:25 PM
Randel its a full out chop top race car.
Posted by: Randal Jul 17 2009, 04:06 PM
Randel its a full out chop top race car.
OK, road racing then.
I still think the best solution is to get your existing shocks revalved to match the weight of your car and venue.
I'm probably to be going with Bilsteins when I make the move from the existing Koni's, but again revalved for the specific weight and venue I'm going to be running.
Although I have yet to check to Koni to see if they can do the same re-valving.
Oh, I'd vote for Ground Control shocks, as the best I've ever ran. They are just so much better than anything else I've driven it's hard to describe.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jul 17 2009, 06:12 PM
Randal,
it is the EX-Bill Newlin hot rod with a 3.6L in it instead of the type IV
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Posted by: Randal Jul 17 2009, 07:20 PM
Randal,
it is the EX-Bill Newlin hot rod with a 3.6L in it instead of the type IV
That car was very nicely done. Always fun to watch and very fast. Watching that car run, with a big 4, was definitely influential on my decision to build one.
Must be crazy with a 3.6 behind the driver.
I still say that re-valving what you have or getting a major brand, like the billies, and doing the same is the most cost effective move.
But if I found $4,000 sitting around I'd probably go straight to Ground Control. Those shocks simply work.
It would be fun to run a shock test between the JRZ and the Ground Controls, but we need one of our engineering geniuses here to help us understand the data.
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Jul 17 2009, 10:55 PM
Well Randell you think like I. I have tried to find the Company Carrera or any other company that can re-valve or just rebuild the shocks I have but thay are a sealed unit from what I am finding out. Can't be done. So Carrera out of business and no one to re-valve puts me here asking for help.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 18 2009, 06:27 AM
Well since it is a full out race car get full out race shocks.
I already answered this with my opinion on the other site.
Didn't know ground control made a shock. I thought they used advance design bodies with thier spring adapters/adjusters.
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Jul 19 2009, 12:20 AM
Thanks Joe I did some looking tonight on Ebay and this may be a option dod you have a part number and what dose your car weight? If you have a setup that already works I may look into it more.
Thanks for the info.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 19 2009, 05:52 AM
Aluminum large body threaded 7"shock. 147# series is what I use. The pound sign is the valving number rated from 1-10. if the is a - and another number it is a spit valve indicating rebound. Mine are double adjustable. which I hardly fuss with anymore as I think I have them dialed in pretty well. 6 compression and 7 rebound.
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Jul 19 2009, 10:32 AM
Aluminum large body threaded 7"shock. 147# series is what I use. The pound sign is the valving number rated from 1-10. if the is a - and another number it is a spit valve indicating rebound. Mine are double adjustable. which I hardly fuss with anymore as I think I have them dialed in pretty well. 6 compression and 7 rebound.
So your 7 inch shock with a 10 inch spring??? I have a assortment of springs at 10 " so I will try to match a set that will allow me to still use the collection of springs I have. did you mount them inverted??
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 19 2009, 02:19 PM
yes inverted.
you will need a bracket to mount it to the shock tower but these can be picked up from any circle track shop.
Posted by: bam914 Jul 22 2009, 08:09 PM
I have an extra set of Dynamic Suspension canister shocks that I want to sell. You can mount them either way. They are double adjustable. Fully extended they are 18 1/2" .
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Jul 22 2009, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the offer can you drop me a PM I think the problem will be the cansiter Fitting into the space I have to work with. PM price and any info you have Or Heeltoe914@aol.com
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 24 2009, 09:15 PM
Dang Blake that is nearly exactly how I mounted the lower eye of my shocks. And I never seen your set up before.
Posted by: bam914 Jul 24 2009, 09:23 PM
Those lower mounts were made by Carrera when they were still in business. Direct bolt in units.
Posted by: stewteral Sep 19 2009, 12:45 PM
Setup is full simi tube car 1775 appox, 10 and 12 LSD Boxster brakes Combo of high speed tracks and AX. Driving.
Hi guys starting stage three of the upgrades to my Spyder racecar. I am planning to add Adjustable front and rear shocks. The front should not be such a big deal the shocks on the car now are made by a Company called Carrera Shocks. The front’s inserts are much shorter than a Carrera or SC size inserted shock. It’s about 10.5 inch long. The rears are short about 12.5 “.
If you notice the rear shocks are inverted, I would like to find something that will mount with the shock bolt and damper location. What makes finding a replacement a challenge is that the stub that is welded onto my rear shocks is not commonly done and would have to be done before the shock is constructed. I would think that there are other ways of getting a inverted shock on a 914 using stock mounting locations.
Advice or suggestion welcomed.
Part two;
Another question I have is if you have a track only racecar that ran as a high output four banger with a very good setup, than converted it to a 3.6 which adds some weight & HP what guess would you make on how much to go up on front and or rear spring rates???
I am thinking 50pds per corner just for the weight but I need to add in the hard acceleration and cornering as well. What has anyone here tried?
Hi Heeltoe914,
I love your car!!
On my 914 V8 street/track toy, I'm running a pair of special-built Koni dual adjustables in the rear and they are working great.
However, I've ONLY found rebound-adjustable Koni Sports shocks for the 911 Boge front struts.
Do you know of any source for a DUAL-ADJUSTABLE cartridge shock for my 911 struts?
Best,
Terry
Posted by: bam914 Sep 19 2009, 02:37 PM
Look up a Koni 8611 series. It is a double adjustable strut insert. I am using these on my 914 now. It fit the the 911 strut. You will need to shorten the strut housing and adapt the top of the strut. It has a 14mm thread there.
Posted by: Britain Smith Oct 16 2009, 02:58 PM
Blake, do you have a picture of the front assembly set-up? Those 8611 series are fairly cheap.
-Britain
Posted by: brant Oct 18 2009, 10:55 PM
what is the company name that took over Carrera...
I can't remember it exactly right now..
but I'm wondering if they could/would revalve still...
brant
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Oct 19 2009, 12:05 AM
what is the company name that took over Carrera...
I can't remember it exactly right now..
but I'm wondering if they could/would revalve still...
brant
I did find them and the shocks have changed allot and thay do not do any service on the old shocks.
But thanks to some great tips here I think we are getting closer to finding a solution.
Posted by: HAM Inc Oct 19 2009, 04:15 PM
QA-1 now owns Carrera. I don't know any road racers that have used them, but I do have a friend who has been building the top asphalt late model stock cars in the south for years. He loved Carrera (was a Carrera test team) but hates the QA-1's. Says they don't hold there valve settings and fatique, regardless of nose pressure settings and any valve settings they tried. He is a big Ohlins fan now.
I won't fool with QA-1.
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 19 2009, 09:16 PM
He is a big Ohlins fan now.
I'm going to install Ohlins LMJ 7" stroke shocks at the rear of my 914.
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Oct 20 2009, 04:35 AM
He is a big Ohlins fan now.
I'm going to install Ohlins LMJ 7" stroke shocks at the rear of my 914.
And just how are you planning on doing this
. Love to see that Chris. 
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Oct 20 2009, 03:33 PM
He is a big Ohlins fan now.
I'm going to install Ohlins LMJ 7" stroke shocks at the rear of my 914.
And just how are you planning on doing this
. Love to see that Chris. +1 +2 Do tell?
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 20 2009, 04:38 PM
The white FP car already has them, taken off Thorshammer's 2005 National Runoffs podium EP car.
I don't have the spare cash to buy a pair of LMJ's yet so I won't be able to show you for a little while.
LMJ's are mostly a stock car shock but they are high quality, economical and 2 way adjustable.
The bottom mounts will require special bolts and the tops need special intermediate brackets for the eyelets.
Posted by: Britain Smith Oct 20 2009, 05:09 PM
What is the cost on these?
-Britain
Posted by: puff adder Oct 20 2009, 08:49 PM
I'm not sure if they cross-fit on a 914, but there's a set of JRZ shocks for the 993 on Ebay right now.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Oct 21 2009, 07:06 AM
http://www.jrzusa.net/prices/jrz_prices.pdf
Price list. Make sure you are sitting down and 2 beers in stand by.
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Oct 21 2009, 08:18 PM
Ya right? maybe in my next life. Thoose are the part numbers right?
Posted by: euro911 Oct 22 2009, 01:22 AM
Funny, LeamonI only need a decent set of front cartridges for my wife's '71
... looking for something more like what's found in a Walmart catalog 
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 22 2009, 05:24 AM
What is the cost on these?
-Britain
about $650 each.
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 22 2009, 05:26 AM
Funny, LeamonI only need a decent set of front cartridges for my wife's '71
... looking for something more like what's found in a Walmart catalog Boges are the best value if you aren't using the car in competition or regular hard driving.
Posted by: Britain Smith Oct 23 2009, 03:35 PM
http://www.jrzusa.net/prices/jrz_prices.pdf
Price list. Make sure you are sitting down and 2 beers in stand by.
$6K a corner...I think I just lost my lunch! Anyone have pictures of the 911/914 front strut set-up with these?
-Britain
Posted by: Britain Smith Oct 23 2009, 03:36 PM
Are there JRZ shocks from a different application that will fit in the rear of the 914 with mods to the mounting top and/or bottom?
-Britain
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Oct 23 2009, 04:51 PM
Are there JRZ shocks from a different application that will fit in the rear of the 914 with mods to the mounting top and/or bottom?
-Britain
Greg Fordahl told me you can put JRZs on a 914 for 6K total. I was thinking about doing it once upon a time... when I was making money
.
Posted by: puff adder Oct 23 2009, 06:39 PM
My car has JRZ shocks.
I'll take some pics and post them in a bit.
Posted by: puff adder Oct 23 2009, 07:37 PM
Here's some pics. Photography isn't my forte.
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Posted by: Heeltoe914 Oct 23 2009, 10:18 PM
Here's some pics. Photography isn't my forte.
Ha may I ask what is the pump in the front truck you have and what is it doing??? The one with the green brackets around it? Very nice front end setup.
Posted by: euro911 Oct 23 2009, 11:04 PM
or for 2 x the price of Boge's, http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/koni-8641-1077Sport ... worth the extra $ ?
Posted by: puff adder Oct 24 2009, 05:58 AM
Thanks very much. The guy who built my car was an artist at fab work.
That pump is actually a fuel filter. If you look closely, you can Juust make out the last letters in "Filters".
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Oct 24 2009, 07:26 PM
Thanks very much. The guy who built my car was an artist at fab work.
That pump is actually a fuel filter. If you look closely, you can Juust make out the last letters in "Filters".
OHHHHHHHHHHHH! thanks
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 24 2009, 07:56 PM
... worth the extra $ ?
They are if you want their special features.
Bilsteins are superior for aggressive driving.
Konis are adjustable, so you can have a softer ride on the road and stiffen them up for autocrossing.
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 12 2009, 03:18 AM
I'm going to install Ohlins LMJ 7" stroke shocks at the rear of my 914.
And just how are you planning on doing this
. Love to see that Chris. Here's one of my new rear shocks,
and a lower mounting bolt. Its a stock unit, modified to fit the 1/2" monoball in the Ohlins shock.
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 12 2009, 03:20 AM
What is the cost on these?
-Britain
About $1400 for the pair. That includes custom valving for 914s.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 13 2009, 05:19 PM
Chris I just love the way you fixed the rear shock bolt. That's some spiffy machining considering how hard them bolts are.
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 13 2009, 06:19 PM
They machined nicely. I used my old worn out P&W lathe (which chatters real easily) that was built sometime around WWII and took only about .030" off the dia. per cut with a carbide insert.
I had originally designed them a little more ruggedly and was planning to have them made them from scratch using 42L40 or the same pre-hardened stock I use for trailing arm pivot shafts. When I realized that I could simply modify the stock bolts it became a lot easier to accomplish on my own.
The sleeve I welded on came from the bottom of a KYB shock that we cut up for the lower perches.
Posted by: ME733 Dec 14 2009, 09:17 AM
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...Chris ...I have a set of CARRERA shocks very similar to the ohlins. There is a "srader valve", air inflator valve at the bottom of the shock absorber, where your pressure line is. They have a 5.5'' stroke......my question is , how will you adapt the top mounting heim-joint to the O.E.M. top shock mount...and where do you "recharge "the cannister, I don't see a fitting....a suggestion as to springs/ rate would be appreciated..( stock street 914 about 2100 lbs.1973..2.o)....murray...
Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 14 2009, 10:46 AM
Matching springs to shocks is a bit backwards.
Match spring to car and tire set up. then valve shocks to dampen
"no 2 shocks are valved the same when it comes to custom".
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 14 2009, 12:13 PM
...Chris ...I have a set of CARRERA shocks very similar to the ohlins. similar in that they have a threaded body and are nitrogen charged...
...my question is , how will you adapt the top mounting heim-joint to the O.E.M. top shock mount...
You can but adaptors for about $200 from The Racers Group, Rebel Racing, and probably others. I don't have oem shock towers so I will be making something myself.
...and where do you "recharge "the cannister, I don't see a fitting...
There is a fill valve on the end of the canister that you can't see in the pic.
140-150 lb
Posted by: Randal Dec 14 2009, 01:40 PM
I'm going to install Ohlins LMJ 7" stroke shocks at the rear of my 914.
And just how are you planning on doing this
. Love to see that Chris. Here's one of my new rear shocks,
and a lower mounting bolt. Its a stock unit, modified to fit the 1/2" monoball in the Ohlins shock.
Those look great Chris, but what shocks will need to be run on the front? I'm currently running Koni yellows, but haven't changed anything else other than the sway bar (smart racing). Have the Koni's revalved or what do you think?
Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 14 2009, 03:03 PM
Randal, you have shocks up front? Us poor guys have struts.
Advance design with spiffy everythings would be cool.
Posted by: ME733 Dec 14 2009, 04:12 PM
...Chris ...I have a set of CARRERA shocks very similar to the ohlins. similar in that they have a threaded body and are nitrogen charged...
...my question is , how will you adapt the top mounting heim-joint to the O.E.M. top shock mount...
You can but adaptors for about $200 from The Racers Group, Rebel Racing, and probably others. I don't have oem shock towers so I will be making something myself.
...and where do you "recharge "the cannister, I don't see a fitting...
There is a fill valve on the end of the canister that you can't see in the pic.
140-150 lb
...well chris Mine look virturally identical.. threaded body /adj. spring perch, top knob adjustment, all aluminum, 5.5' stroke, chromed springs (rating ? )as I have not checked them yet...but as they are "carrera", who has been bought out, naturally look slightly dated in some of the details. I'm resonably certain the srader valve could be replaced with a fitting to allow a remote and adjustable pressure cannistor. thanks for the spring rate information. ..murray...
Posted by: Randal Dec 14 2009, 05:16 PM
Randal, you have shocks up front? Us poor guys have struts.
Advance design with spiffy everythings would be cool.
Hey they are yellow and look like the back ones!
Guess I have struts as well.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 14 2009, 06:01 PM
We're running the Fox shocks from Smart Racing on the Spec 911 ...
http://www.smartracingproducts.com/catalog/rearaxle.htm
I wonder how hard it would be to make these work on a 914?
Andy
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 14 2009, 06:04 PM
Wait, it says right there "now available for your 1969-89 911 and 914" ...
I have to ask Rich about that ...
Andy
Posted by: Randal Dec 14 2009, 06:09 PM
Wait, it says right there "now available for your 1969-89 911 and 914" ...
I have to ask Rich about that ...
AndyI talked to Rich a couple of weeks ago. He said it would be like $2,500 for both the front and back. And yes I told he what my front configuration would be.
He swears by them.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 14 2009, 06:27 PM
He swears by them.
He sells them too ...
They work great on the 911, but that car is at 2400lbs minimum weight.
If i understand the concept correctly, the canister pressure is there mainly to keep the oil from foaming with air-bubbles (thus adding lag to the dampening) and not so much to add/remove spring rate.
Andy
Posted by: J P Stein Dec 14 2009, 07:09 PM
Hayden says the Fox are way too stiff for a 914 AXer.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 14 2009, 07:15 PM
Hayden says the Fox are way too stiff for a 914 AXer.
Kinda what i was thinking. A light AX 914 could be 800lbs lighter than the Spec 911 ...
Andy
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 14 2009, 08:46 PM
Thats just one of the reasons I'm going with the Ohlins. They have a lot of custom valve arrangements available and have 24 position adjusters that provide a wide range with any given valve set. Tomorrow I'll try to find time to scan my shock dyno sheet.
ONe advantage of Fox vs. Ohlins is on the fronts. Fox has a front strut that fits 914s. Ohlins requires a "Kit" shock with custom made spindles, which ends up pretty expensive.
I'm going to stick with my Bilstein front inserts. Generally speaking 914s have more trouble with grip at the rear end so I figure the fronts can be left as is and I'll use the adjustable rears to tune around them.
Posted by: J P Stein Dec 14 2009, 09:17 PM
Hayden says the Fox are way too stiff for a 914 AXer.
Kinda what i was thinking. A light AX 914 could be 800lbs lighter than the Spec 911 ...
AndyI test drove a 914 vintage race car on our AX venue last summer. A friend was thinkin' about buying it. It was totally unsuitable for AX at any venue I've driven with the possible exception of Marina. It literally bounced across the bumps. The fella does fine on the big track at PIR.....that track is smooth as a baby's ass.
My buddy got scared off by it.... tho I assured him it could be set up to run with practically no out-of pocket- expenses....there was a ton of valuable extras. It had a lot more motor than mine but the power band was wrong for AX.....that is a relatively easy fix.
Posted by: Randal Dec 14 2009, 10:28 PM
Hayden says the Fox are way too stiff for a 914 AXer.
Kinda what i was thinking. A light AX 914 could be 800lbs lighter than the Spec 911 ...
AndyI test drove a 914 vintage race car on our AX venue last summer. A friend was thinkin' about buying it. It was totally unsuitable for AX at any venue I've driven with the possible exception of Marina. It literally bounced across the bumps. The fella does fine on the big track at PIR.....that track is smooth as a baby's ass.
My buddy got scared off by it.... tho I assured him it could be set up to run with practically no out-of pocket- expenses....there was a ton of valuable extras. It had a lot more motor than mine but the power band was wrong for AX.....that is a relatively easy fix.
OK gentlemen, what front shocks will work best with Chris's back ones and what needs to be done with them to make them work in a light front end car?
Posted by: Joe Ricard Dec 15 2009, 05:57 AM
Get the fox shocks and have them re-valved for the spring/torsion bar you are going to run on the car.
Basically you change and orifice for high speed and a few shims for low speed.
certainly FOX shocks are rebuildable and re-valveable. But you got to know what kind of curve you want so you can tell the guy with the shock magic shims and dyno what to make.
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 15 2009, 09:29 AM
OK gentlemen, what front shocks will work best with Chris's back ones and what needs to be done with them to make them work in a light front end car?
I'd go with Bilstein HDs right out of the box.
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