SEALS - Different that orig, WAS: OIL: Flood, Leak and Seeps, Will they work ? |
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SEALS - Different that orig, WAS: OIL: Flood, Leak and Seeps, Will they work ? |
ctc911ctc |
May 20 2019, 03:16 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
Please see the seal picture around post #9
All, I had all three, Floods, Leaks and Seeps. I fixed the Flood, yes the valve cover HAS to go on with the VW logo upside down! So on to the leaks. I am down to one leak, the oils is dripping off of the oil filter, a drop a minute or two while running. This leak is NOT coming from the top of the engine. Oil pressure sending unit, oil filler (OEL)and the distributor are all tight, no leaks. Took out the oil filter, let the car leak until it stopped dripping and got under the car. OK, I spent an hour under the car. Pretty certain that the car is leaking from ABOVE the oil filter mounting bracket. Top of the braket and the bottom part of the oil cooler are covered in oil. Sooooo, after reading everything about this within these pages I found that the oil filter bracket AND the oil cooler could be removed WITHOUT removing the engine. GREAT! So raised the car high, put it on jackstands AND 4x4 blocks (belt and suspenders) and slid underneath. took the first nut off the oil filter mount, then I went for the one on the back of the bracket. A - Easy Bracket nut B - Nut on top of bracket - seen through a mirror C - Oil Pressure regulator Access Port D - Above the Oil Cleaner bracket - covered with oil. As can be seen, the nut for the other half of the mount is overlapped by the oil cooler frame. THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A WRENCH ON THIS! Not sure what to do now, live with the leak until it is time to remove the engine? Ideas, suggestions, Many thanks in advance. BTW, the seeps are all from the pushrod tubes, only one looks really bad, not sure I would venture to pull the tubes with the engine in the car, though I know it can be done. |
jdamiano |
May 20 2019, 04:56 PM
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 335 Joined: 18-March 18 From: Jacksonville Member No.: 21,981 Region Association: South East States |
Oil cooler seals? I hunted a leak a few months ago. Looked like it was coming from the same area and ended up being the front crankshaft seal. Surprisingly easy the change with engine in.
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ctc911ctc |
May 20 2019, 06:27 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
Was the leak on BOTH side of the engine or concentrated in the oil cooler/oil filter area?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Oil cooler seals? I hunted a leak a few months ago. Looked like it was coming from the same area and ended up being the front crankshaft seal. Surprisingly easy the change with engine in. |
Big Len |
May 20 2019, 07:36 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,747 Joined: 16-July 13 From: Edgewood, New Mexico Member No.: 16,126 Region Association: Southwest Region |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Same here. |
Mark Henry |
May 21 2019, 08:38 AM
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#5
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
The PR seals you have to disconnect the shift rod, clutch cable, etc., then you can lower the front of the engine 3-4" onto a stand and it's do-able in car.
CV cover gaskets I glue on with trim adhesive to make them stay put when installing. On my builds I weld 4 extra tabs, two bottom and two top just like the two on the VC from the factory. On this job I'd just drop the complete engine, trans and exhaust as a unit, but I have the gear to do this easily. |
rjames |
May 21 2019, 09:36 AM
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#6
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I'm made of metal Group: Members Posts: 3,932 Joined: 24-July 05 From: Shoreline, WA Member No.: 4,467 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Oil cooler seals? I hunted a leak a few months ago. Looked like it was coming from the same area and ended up being the front crankshaft seal. Surprisingly easy the change with engine in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Try changing the oil cooler seals first, crankshaft seal second. (easiest job first). Both can be done with the engine in the car. |
ctc911ctc |
May 21 2019, 11:58 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
OK, I am on it - cooler first! may have to buy some tiny tools!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Oil cooler seals? I hunted a leak a few months ago. Looked like it was coming from the same area and ended up being the front crankshaft seal. Surprisingly easy the change with engine in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Try changing the oil cooler seals first, crankshaft seal second. (easiest job first). Both can be done with the engine in the car. |
Mark Henry |
May 21 2019, 12:03 PM
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#8
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
OK, I am on it - cooler first! may have to buy some tiny tools! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Cheap HF or yard sale wrench, heat, bend and grind to the shape you need. I have all kinds of custom wrenches and sockets that I have done this way. |
Big Len |
May 21 2019, 03:32 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,747 Joined: 16-July 13 From: Edgewood, New Mexico Member No.: 16,126 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I'll be with you in spirit ctc. Gonna attempt the seals on Thursday.
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ctc911ctc |
May 21 2019, 06:44 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?????
This may be remedial for most of you, but here is my experience of changing an engine while the plane is in flight - or - changing the oil cooler gaskets (2) without taking the engine out. 1. started wrenching the closet of the 3 nuts. 2. realized that I needed a ratchet - one of those nifty ratches INSIDE the round, closed end of the wrench 3. Bought them and some 1/4 inch stuff (which was on sale) 4. Took off the first nut 5. Realized that the stud came off from the engine since the nut was kinda rusty 6. after thinking about this decided that I could live with it. 7. on to the second nut which is above the first toward the middle of the cooler 8. It TOO when loosened took the stud out. 9. came to the realization that if all 3 studs come out, I could remove the entire cooler! First would have to remove the oil cleaner bracket........... HHHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmm 10. The last nut is at the thin end of the cooler, it came off like it is supposed to, the stud is still in the engine. 11. some oil came out, now the cooler is separated from the engine by 1/2 inch 12. Now, do I put 2 nuts on the 3rd stud and try and remove and properly clean the oil cooler or do I power through this by focusing on the gaskets only? WHAT WOULD YOU DO??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
rhodyguy |
May 22 2019, 08:08 AM
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#11
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,080 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Do? Spend an hour or so and drop the engine, pull the fan shroud and be done with it. Then, while you're in there...or stay the course and hope the leak stops.
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iankarr |
May 22 2019, 08:23 AM
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#12
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,473 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Do? Spend an hour or so and drop the engine, pull the fan shroud and be done with it. Then, while you're in there...or stay the course and hope the leak stops. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) 100%. Especially since you’re still becoming acquainted with the car. Engine out will also make it much easier to de-grease the old crud and inspect other stuff. There’s an engine drop video in my sig below... you can do it! |
rjames |
May 22 2019, 12:32 PM
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#13
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I'm made of metal Group: Members Posts: 3,932 Joined: 24-July 05 From: Shoreline, WA Member No.: 4,467 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
WHAT WOULD YOU DO????? This may be remedial for most of you, but here is my experience of changing an engine while the plane is in flight - or - changing the oil cooler gaskets (2) without taking the engine out. 1. started wrenching the closet of the 3 nuts. 2. realized that I needed a ratchet - one of those nifty ratches INSIDE the round, closed end of the wrench 3. Bought them and some 1/4 inch stuff (which was on sale) 4. Took off the first nut 5. Realized that the stud came off from the engine since the nut was kinda rusty 6. after thinking about this decided that I could live with it. 7. on to the second nut which is above the first toward the middle of the cooler 8. It TOO when loosened took the stud out. 9. came to the realization that if all 3 studs come out, I could remove the entire cooler! First would have to remove the oil cleaner bracket........... HHHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmm 10. The last nut is at the thin end of the cooler, it came off like it is supposed to, the stud is still in the engine. 11. some oil came out, now the cooler is separated from the engine by 1/2 inch 12. Now, do I put 2 nuts on the 3rd stud and try and remove and properly clean the oil cooler or do I power through this by focusing on the gaskets only? WHAT WOULD YOU DO??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Hard not to agree with those who say drop the engine and look for other things to fix. That said, if it were me (and it was a few years ago) since you are already in a position where you can replace the oil cooler seals, just finish the job and see if it solves your oil leak problem. If it fixes the leak and there's nothing else that needs attention, drive the car and enjoy it. However, if for some reason you feel you need to remove the oil cooler completely, then drop the engine. |
Dave_Darling |
May 22 2019, 12:37 PM
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#14
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,985 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
The PR seals you have to disconnect the shift rod, clutch cable, etc., then you can lower the front of the engine 3-4" onto a stand and it's do-able in car. If you mean pushrod tube seals, no lowering of the engine is required. You simply pull the tubes halfway out of the head, which lets you change the seals on the end. Then you can push them back in again. --DD |
ctc911ctc |
May 22 2019, 02:25 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
Took the seals out - had to VERY gently pry the oil cooler from the engine and the gaskets fell into my face.
The are very different from the replacements - hard rubber, asymetric. Is this the replacement style? Did I get the right parts? Sold to me from our favorite vendor. My concern is the holes on either side are different sizes and since they both fell out I do not know which side is which..... Looking for gasket guidance. |
ctc911ctc |
May 22 2019, 06:52 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
Took the seals out - had to VERY gently pry the oil cooler from the engine and the gaskets fell into my face. The are very different from the replacements - hard rubber, asymetric. Is this the replacement style? Did I get the right parts? Sold to me from our favorite vendor. My concern is the holes on either side are different sizes and since they both fell out I do not know which side is which..... Looking for gasket guidance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) |
worn |
May 22 2019, 10:01 PM
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#17
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can't remember Group: Members Posts: 3,155 Joined: 3-June 11 From: Madison, WI Member No.: 13,152 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
OK, I am on it - cooler first! may have to buy some tiny tools! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Cheap HF or yard sale wrench, heat, bend and grind to the shape you need. I have all kinds of custom wrenches and sockets that I have done this way. I agree. If you don’t have an acetylene rig, map gas will do for heating the wrench to cherry red. Then it moves like stiff clay. If needed you can use an angle or a bench grinder. |
iankarr |
May 22 2019, 10:20 PM
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#18
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,473 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Took the seals out - had to VERY gently pry the oil cooler from the engine and the gaskets fell into my face. The are very different from the replacements - hard rubber, asymetric. Is this the replacement style? Did I get the right parts? Sold to me from our favorite vendor. My concern is the holes on either side are different sizes and since they both fell out I do not know which side is which..... Looking for gasket guidance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) Which holes are different sizes? On the oil cooler or the seals? FWIW, all of the seals I’ve replaced look like the orange -ish one you posted |
ChrisFoley |
May 23 2019, 05:42 AM
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#19
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,925 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None |
The old seals used to have the same shape as the new ones. They are deformed permanently after years of being installed/used.
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ctc911ctc |
May 23 2019, 05:53 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 892 Joined: 9-June 18 From: boston Member No.: 22,206 Region Association: North East States |
Oil flood is back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)
Pardon for the detailed post - I need therapy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) I was able to move the Oil Cooler about 1/2-3/4 of an inch leaving a gap between the cooler and the mounting bracket. Something was blocking it from opening further, there was perhaps another inch that was available. I took the bracket off of the other side. 3 nuts and a bracket bolt. Of course the oil filter bracket is blocking the view of the holes where the gaskets seat. But you knew that Worked for 2-3 hours on 2 different days under the car trying to get the gaskets in place without them falling back into my face. Used the 14mm Wrench method, the long needle nose method and fingers until I used a large set of Hemostats which provided the clearance, got the top one in place - held it there and then closed the gap. Then squeezed the bottom one into place. closed the gap further. Bolted the cooler back into place, added oil - started the engine. oil light stayed on (engine was running no more than 5-6 seconds) and looked under the car. Oil Flood. I now know that the oil cooler is leaking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I may try this one more time since now I am an expert. QUESTION: the wholes are tapered so these will not stick. I tried using the gasket seal that is mentioned in one of the threads - does not seem to have enough stick. So, HOW do you keep the gaskets in place before you start closing the gap between the bracket and the cooler????? Thanks in advance for listening: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) |
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