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> Handling: Plenty of Understeer, impressions of my car from Trekkor's AX school
McMark
post Nov 18 2012, 11:49 AM
Post #1


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After Trekkor's AX school at Infineon I need some confirmation/correction of my assessment. The course included lots of tight 140+ degree turns, two slaloms, and a long left hand sweeper. In all of these elements I experienced oversteer. Braking felt fine, although I'm sure some nice Porterfields would decrease the stopping time.

I'm not interested in upgrading springs or T-Bars because this is mostly a street driving car. But from my 'book learning' of suspension setup, I think tightening the rear would help even out the car. I would like to be able to dial in a bit of oversteer and then ease back off. The only way I can see to do this, with what I have in the car and what I'm willing to do, would be to fabricate an adjustable rear sway bar.

I know many people have their cars set up with no rear bar at all, so am I missing something? I feel like a bigger, adjustable rear bar would also let me run my front bar closer to full hard.

Here's my car setup:
Stock 1.7 (going turbo over the winter)
Stock front T-bars.
19mm front sway bar set at half-stiff.
Unknown age front internally adjustable Konis set on full soft.
Rear bilsteins of unknown age.
Rear springs of unknown rate (but comfortable on street so not HUGE, but not stock either).
Stock rear sway bar.
First generation Falken Azenis (205/55/16) on 6" Boxster 'Snowflake' wheels.
Stock calipers and 'cheap' pads.
19mm Master Cylinder
MC Brace


Also, Trekkor drove my car on a couple runs, so hopefully he'll chime in with an alternate perspective.

EDIT: Original topic erroneously said OVERsteer when I really meant UNDERsteer.
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McMark   Handling: Plenty of Understeer   Nov 18 2012, 11:49 AM
campbellcj   Did you try any adjustments to the front swaybar w...   Nov 18 2012, 12:02 PM
Randal   Did you try any adjustments to the front swaybar ...   Nov 18 2012, 12:44 PM
Trekkor   I run a HUGE (31mm ) front sway bar set 2/3 to fir...   Nov 18 2012, 12:06 PM
Trekkor   This may be helpful: KT   Nov 18 2012, 12:48 PM
McMark   I wonder if your rear springs are stiffer than min...   Nov 18 2012, 02:46 PM
Woody   Go full stiff on the front bar or get rid of the r...   Nov 18 2012, 03:43 PM
Trekkor   Stock front torsions, 200# rear springs. So, yes...   Nov 18 2012, 04:11 PM
sixnotfour   Ya you should have popped off one link on the re...   Nov 18 2012, 05:02 PM
McMark   Ya you should have popped off one link on the r...   Nov 18 2012, 07:58 PM
sixnotfour   well then you have Understeer or front push and ne...   Nov 18 2012, 08:00 PM
SirAndy   well then you have Understeer or front push :agre...   Nov 18 2012, 09:11 PM
Trekkor   http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/sphot...   Nov 18 2012, 08:16 PM
6freak   Balance sir !! what you do to the fr...   Nov 18 2012, 08:36 PM
McMark   Yeah, yeah. I'm an idiot. <_< Underst...   Nov 18 2012, 10:41 PM
ConeDodger   The ass-end is normal weight transfer. I like hu...   Nov 18 2012, 11:58 PM
Randal   So is it oversteer or understeer? Is the front lo...   Nov 19 2012, 10:01 AM
J P Stein   So is it oversteer or understeer? Is the front l...   Nov 20 2012, 10:09 AM
ConeDodger   So is it oversteer or understeer? Is the front ...   Nov 20 2012, 10:26 AM
jhadler   In a car with relatively stock setup, understeer c...   Nov 19 2012, 02:38 PM
6freak   Understeer is engineered into the car ...like all ...   Nov 19 2012, 04:15 PM
jhadler   Understeer is engineered into the car ...like all...   Nov 19 2012, 05:04 PM
McMark   Good points. I may leave things as is and get som...   Nov 19 2012, 05:50 PM
jhadler   Unless you plan on sinking a whole cr*p load of mo...   Nov 19 2012, 06:03 PM
wndsrfr   I wish there were more attendance limited events...   Nov 19 2012, 07:42 PM
Trekkor   We'll do at least two more schools at Sears ne...   Nov 19 2012, 10:10 PM
Randal   Truth be told you get more seat time at one of Tre...   Nov 20 2012, 08:31 AM
McMark   Thanks Randal. You're right. Instead of tryi...   Nov 20 2012, 10:02 AM
ConeDodger   So if we expand on my thought that you should adju...   Nov 20 2012, 10:20 AM
campbellcj   you can stiffen the rear in three ways: one, bigg...   Nov 20 2012, 11:08 AM
jhadler   you can stiffen the rear in three ways: one, big...   Nov 20 2012, 11:13 AM
J P Stein   BTW, Throttle steering is not limited to hi-HP car...   Nov 20 2012, 11:51 AM
McMark   I tried to induce oversteer to get around the 180,...   Nov 20 2012, 02:02 PM
SirAndy   I tried to induce oversteer to get around the 180...   Nov 20 2012, 02:51 PM
Randal   [quote name='McMark' post='1771121' date='Nov 20 ...   Nov 20 2012, 05:11 PM
McMark   Interesting... :idea:   Nov 20 2012, 03:08 PM
ChrisNPDrider   Uh oh, McMark is on the path of AX addiction. Very...   Nov 20 2012, 03:15 PM
Trekkor   I spun out this one time... KT   Nov 20 2012, 04:36 PM
Woody   Uh oh, McMark is on the path of AX addiction. Ver...   Nov 20 2012, 04:44 PM
ConeDodger   I feel somewhat responsible. He got addicted in my...   Nov 20 2012, 06:52 PM
sixnotfour   To The Max ? your Sooo 80's   Nov 20 2012, 07:07 PM
ConeDodger   To The Max ? your Sooo 80's :bootyshake: ...   Nov 20 2012, 07:08 PM
Woody   The paddock is a bad influence. :D   Nov 20 2012, 09:01 PM
McMark   Yeah, but I was understeering your car too Rob...   Nov 20 2012, 09:04 PM
ConeDodger   Yeah, but I was understeering your car too Rob...   Nov 20 2012, 09:53 PM
ConeDodger   Yeah, but I was understeering your car too Rob...   Nov 20 2012, 09:55 PM
sixnotfour   under driving , is what i think he meant..to the m...   Nov 21 2012, 03:12 AM
Trekkor   I discovered Mark's tires are...ahem... a litt...   Nov 25 2012, 08:16 PM
Woody   A little? How old is a little?   Nov 25 2012, 09:08 PM
Trekkor   :popcorn: KT   Nov 25 2012, 09:27 PM
McMark   It's no secret. They 2003/2004. :D   Nov 25 2012, 11:09 PM
Woody   Dooood :WTF: easy 2 seconds right there. :poke:   Nov 26 2012, 02:48 AM
jhadler   Don't be too hasty to throw fresh race rubber ...   Nov 26 2012, 09:55 AM
SirAndy   Don't be too hasty to throw fresh race rubber ...   Nov 26 2012, 01:00 PM
Woody   Don't be too hasty to throw fresh race rubber...   Nov 26 2012, 01:02 PM
Trekkor   These were just 200TW street tires. KT   Nov 26 2012, 12:00 PM
Trekkor   I never did ask mark what tire pressure he was run...   Nov 26 2012, 01:25 PM
Randal   I never did ask mark what tire pressure he was ru...   Nov 26 2012, 04:40 PM
ConeDodger   Mark knows about tire pressure adjustments. I woul...   Nov 26 2012, 07:18 PM
McMark   I thought about adjusting the tire pressure, but d...   Nov 26 2012, 10:33 PM
Eric_Shea   We're just hoping you get the oversteer/unde...   Nov 26 2012, 10:38 PM
ConeDodger   We're just hoping you get the oversteer/und...   Nov 27 2012, 01:46 PM
Randal   We're just hoping you get the oversteer/un...   Nov 27 2012, 07:20 PM
ConeDodger   [quote name='ConeDodger' post='1774478' date='Nov...   Nov 27 2012, 07:24 PM
Woody   [quote name='ConeDodger' post='1774478' date='No...   Nov 27 2012, 07:45 PM
J P Stein   I found it impossible to "flat spot" a t...   Nov 26 2012, 10:58 PM
jhadler   I found it impossible to "flat spot" a ...   Nov 27 2012, 12:26 AM
Randal   I found it impossible to "flat spot" a ...   Nov 27 2012, 08:24 AM
6freak   I found it impossible to "flat spot" a...   Nov 27 2012, 08:33 AM
J P Stein   A true flat spot will cause: a)Vibration b) and/or...   Nov 27 2012, 11:00 AM
Woody   :rotfl:   Nov 27 2012, 02:14 PM
Woody   RE: Handling: Plenty of Understeer   Nov 27 2012, 06:49 PM
ConeDodger   Any time now McMark is going to see that Dukes of ...   Nov 28 2012, 02:15 AM
Eric_Shea   Mark's busy. I'll fill in... <_<   Nov 28 2012, 10:45 AM
Woody   Mark's busy. I'll fill in... <_< ...   Nov 28 2012, 11:54 AM
McMark   WTF is Rob posting about now? :rotfl:   Nov 28 2012, 05:05 PM
ConeDodger   WTF is Rob posting about now? :rotfl: :(   Nov 28 2012, 09:06 PM
grantsfo   More neg camber up front, full tank of gas will ge...   Nov 30 2012, 03:26 PM
ConeDodger   More neg camber up front, full tank of gas will g...   Nov 30 2012, 05:09 PM
Trekkor   Share the settings!! KT   Nov 30 2012, 10:41 PM
ConeDodger   Share the settings!! KT Noooooooo...   Nov 30 2012, 11:24 PM
Woody   My setup before the rear coil overs. If I remember...   Dec 1 2012, 05:59 AM
Randal   My setup before the rear coil overs. If I remembe...   Dec 1 2012, 03:03 PM
Woody   RE: Handling: Plenty of Understeer   Dec 1 2012, 04:50 PM
Randal   If I did my arithmetic right we are at the sa...   Dec 1 2012, 07:17 PM
Woody   My car still has glass, a roof, and impact beam do...   Dec 1 2012, 07:34 PM
Woody   Tread width is 9" front and 10.1 rear.   Dec 1 2012, 07:36 PM
J P Stein   Tread width is 9" front and 10.1 rear. Tha...   Dec 1 2012, 11:38 PM
ww914   This has been a very interesting read. Thanks Mark...   Dec 7 2012, 09:40 AM


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