Body in White vs. Full Restoration, Food for Thought Options

[mepstein]

The shop that restored my car 25 years ago went in the opposite direction. Put a vin from one car into a rusty beat up shell.

[Mike Bellis]

I had a 1969 911 Targa. Welded a C2 front end on... Welded a C2 rear end on...Welded 930 flares on... Cut the targa and put a soft top on... Swapped the engine and tranny to a 915/3.2L... Swapped the doors with an SC... Swapped the interior with an SC... Swapped the wiring harness with an SC...

California DMV decided the car was a rebody and assigned a new VIN but kept it as a 1969. No smog check required but they added an emmissions sticker stating the engine had to remain a 1986 3.2L and must meet the 1986 smog regulations.

My new VIN was CA******* 1969 Porsche 911... Beautiful fun car but not as fun to drive as a 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Bob L.]

"BigSneakers", here on this board, says he's about to crush what he describes as a rust free tub. He's selling off all other parts.
Sounds pretty close to a "Body in White" option for cheap. If you're in southern Ca.

[Tom_T]

I had a 1969 911 Targa. Welded a C2 front end on... Welded a C2 rear end on...Welded 930 flares on... Cut the targa and put a soft top on... Swapped the engine and tranny to a 915/3.2L... Swapped the doors with an SC... Swapped the interior with an SC... Swapped the wiring harness with an SC...

California DMV decided the car was a rebody and assigned a new VIN but kept it as a 1969. No smog check required but they added an emmissions sticker stating the engine had to remain a 1986 3.2L and must meet the 1986 smog regulations.

My new VIN was CA******* 1969 Porsche 911... Beautiful fun car but not as fun to drive as a 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Good real world experience with Cal DMV Mike - what year was that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

That goes a bit beyond a 914/911 body-in-white rebody with the original drivetrain, interior, etc., but good insight into how Cal DMV views them today, as opposed to back in the 70's when they allowed them to retain the original VIN.

[carr914]

This is like the story of George Washington's axe. The Handle was replaced twice and the Blade 3 times, so was it still Washington's Axe?

[charliew]

I have come to a personal conclusion there is no such thing as a rust free 70's era mild steel unibody car. Anyone who says they have one, just doesn't know how to look inside them. If they have ever been welded on, the interior of the body has rusted from the heat from welding. Just drill a hole and look inside with a borescope. If by some miracle they haven't been welded on I think there will still be rust.

I think all you can do is wish for a rust free 914 and replace the rusted parts. It will still rust but it will take a long time to show up. If you acid dipped it to clean it and then galvanized it maybe it would stay rust free but what would that cost? I once read on a land rover forum where they were galvanizing some of their parts but I don't remember doing a complete body.

Wouldn't a new 914 tub that was assembled from galvanized parts be great.

I wrecked a 58 beetle in the mid 60's and welded a 64 beetle front end on it and never thought about the vin problem. I cut the windshield post and the heater channels. It was my first two into one job I did. The front end was only a year old but it didn't cost much I think it was 150.00, and the 58 bug wasn't worth 500.00 before it was wrecked, so really I don't think anyone cared. I guess it didn't matter, anyway I never sold it.

[McMark]

I think if you're going to try and answer the age old, "Is it the same car?" question, you need to specify some parameters. If you're asking about legal status, there are some pretty clear laws on the subject, so it's fairly definitive. If you're asking about social status (what non-law people think) then you're going to hear a lot of different answers, and none are right and none are wrong. You have to decide how you feel about it and that's the 'right answer' for you.

As for me? I don't care how much of the original car is there or has been replaced. I only care if the work was done well. I also don't care about the specificity of the VIN number. If it's a good clean 914 (or whatever) that is solid and sound, I'm happy.

And in the case of a 914/6, I couldn't care less about the VIN as long as a conversion was built up using correct parts on a correct year chassis. I would value a conversion built on a 1971 chassis more than one built on a 1974 chassis.

But as always, what I care about is irrelevant beyond my own car. As long as you are happy with your car and the modifications you've made, I'm happy. It's about loving and driving your 914, not adhering to my brand of crazy.

[Tom_T]

I have come to a personal conclusion there is no such thing as a rust free 70's era mild steel unibody car. Anyone who says they have one, just doesn't know how to look inside them. If they have ever been welded on, the interior of the body has rusted from the heat from welding. Just drill a hole and look inside with a borescope. If by some miracle they haven't been welded on I think there will still be rust.

I think all you can do is wish for a rust free 914 and replace the rusted parts. It will still rust but it will take a long time to show up. If you acid dipped it to clean it and then galvanized it maybe it would stay rust free but what would that cost? I once read on a land rover forum where they were galvanizing some of their parts but I don't remember doing a complete body.

Wouldn't a new 914 tub that was assembled from galvanized parts be great.

I wrecked a 58 beetle in the mid 60's and welded a 64 beetle front end on it and never thought about the vin problem. I cut the windshield post and the heater channels. It was my first two into one job I did. The front end was only a year old but it didn't cost much I think it was 150.00, and the 58 bug wasn't worth 500.00 before it was wrecked, so really I don't think anyone cared. I guess it didn't matter, anyway I never sold it.

I don't think they cared up into the 80's, at least here in CA.

Yes, I was thinking a hot dipped zinc treated/galvanized body with a better steel alloy which was more rust resistant itself when I posted this Charlie.

I read on here that one member used to work at a mfgr. who made antennas or something, where he used their hot dip tank to treat some of his 914 parts.

Now if only one had access to such a tank big enough for our little 914s! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tom_T]

.... not adhering to my brand of crazy.

Mark - I'm very "brand loyal" to my brand of crazy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)