 Newbie Tears Into Webers |
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| jmill |
 Oct 14 2009, 10:24 AM
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#121
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Green Hornet  Group: Members Posts: 2,449 Joined: 9-May 08 From: Racine, Wisconsin Member No.: 9,038 Region Association: Upper MidWest  |
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 14 2009, 10:43 AM)  BTW...any thing I'm looking for with linkage adjustment other than matching angles, simultaneous throttle opening (how do I assess that?), no binding, no slop? You can do one of 2 things. You can back your idle stop screws off until the butterflie closes. Have the screws just touch. Adjust your linkage on each side so that they fit on without opening the butterflies. Or you can slide a feeler gauge between the butterfly and carb bore and adjust the idle stop on both carbs so that both carb buterflies are open the exact same amount. Then attach the linkage. The first way is easier the second is more accurate. If one carb closes slightly more your adjustment will be off with the first method. Remember your starting from page one here. You'll have to get the mixture screws set and idle flows equal. Doing the above will at least get your car started, and warmed up so you can set up your idle adjustments. You'll have to disconnect a side and your accelerator cable for the adjustments. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 14 2009, 11:06 AM
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#122
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I have the block mounted pivot. So, I gues the article you sent me is mostly not of use?
[/quote] Sounds like a plan, adding the thick washers may not make much difference, I don't recall what linkage style you have - hex bar, not much of a change, other style mounted to a crankcase pivot may need extending slightly. BTW, I would not touch the butterfly either. Have you checked their alignment? To do this, turn in the slow running screw so that you can fit a 0.004 inch narrow feeler gauge between the bore and the upper edge of the butterfly, as viewed from the bottom of the carb, then check the other butterfly, it should be exactly the same. If they are then you are probbaly fine, if not then you may have to undo the screws and adjust, let us know what you find. The 4/1000 inch setting is also the correct starting point for the slow setting, the idle and bypass orifices in the barrel are correctly covered or exposed at this point for the slow running setting. Getting there, take it slowly and you will be fine ! Neil [/quote] |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 14 2009, 11:10 AM
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#123
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Hmmmm...every article I've seen (sent by many of you) never said anything about dropping the accelerator cable...just both linkages.
QUOTE(jmill @ Oct 14 2009, 12:24 PM) QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 14 2009, 10:43 AM) BTW...any thing I'm looking for with linkage adjustment other than matching angles, simultaneous throttle opening (how do I assess that?), no binding, no slop? You can do one of 2 things. You can back your idle stop screws off until the butterflie closes. Have the screws just touch. Adjust your linkage on each side so that they fit on without opening the butterflies. Or you can slide a feeler gauge between the butterfly and carb bore and adjust the idle stop on both carbs so that both carb buterflies are open the exact same amount. Then attach the linkage. The first way is easier the second is more accurate. If one carb closes slightly more your adjustment will be off with the first method. Remember your starting from page one here. You'll have to get the mixture screws set and idle flows equal. Doing the above will at least get your car started, and warmed up so you can set up your idle adjustments. You'll have to disconnect a side and your accelerator cable for the adjustments. |
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| neil30076 |
Oct 14 2009, 11:29 AM
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#124
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Recovering dismantler! Group: Members Posts: 397 Joined: 12-September 06 From: San Diego ( RB) CA Member No.: 6,826 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I disconnect the accel cable, so there is no pre-load on the linkage, get everyting set right and then connect it back with a little slack so that engine vibration, etc does not cause the linkage to move when idling.
Yes, my instructions don't all apply, but checking the full throttle adjustment is the same on either setup. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 14 2009, 11:32 AM
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#125
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
The "sticking" of the butterflies is not consistent. I can snap it open and shut 3-4 times perfectly and then maybe the next time it will hang up a little short of closed. Seems to be to be more of a spring or shaft thing...almost as if it's trying to clear some small crud. I'm going to keep spraying...cleaner/ lube and working it to see if it frees up better. It's really not bad at all, I just want it to be flawless, of course.
The "Grand Experiment" is on delay for another day as I forgot to take off the second intake manifold for cleaning and painting...sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) If anybody wants the accelerator pump gaskets (black) for their 44s, my kit had them and they are of no use to me...I used the reds for my 40s. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 14 2009, 11:34 AM
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#126
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
So, if I disconnect the throttle cable I can leave the linkage on as I balance the carbs?
QUOTE(neil30076 @ Oct 14 2009, 01:29 PM) I disconnect the accel cable, so there is no pre-load on the linkage, get everyting set right and then connect it back with a little slack so that engine vibration, etc does not cause the linkage to move when idling. Yes, my instructions don't all apply, but checking the full throttle adjustment is the same on either setup. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 14 2009, 12:56 PM
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#127
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
LOVE finding shit that's wrong (therefore it may improve)...the right side intake manifold was being held on by only three nuts, and one of them (like on the other side) was basically finger tight. I'm guessing this was responsible for at least some of my back firing, no?
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| neil30076 |
Oct 14 2009, 01:59 PM
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#128
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Recovering dismantler! Group: Members Posts: 397 Joined: 12-September 06 From: San Diego ( RB) CA Member No.: 6,826 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 14 2009, 10:34 AM) So, if I disconnect the throttle cable I can leave the linkage on as I balance the carbs? I disconnect the links to do the balancing, then the throttle to do the rest of the adjustments - others may do differently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| r_towle |
Oct 14 2009, 04:47 PM
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#129
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,705 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States 
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yup, loose nuts will create leaks and backfiring.
The idea behind balancing is simple, yet complex. First, you want the carbs to be balanced between each port on one carb...that is a must. You cant guarantee that with the linkage attached. Second, once you have each carb tuned properly, then you put the linkage on and make them match side to side... This step does not need the throttle cable attached, that just ads another layer of adjustment that you dont need at that moment. As far as the throttle not closing...did you take off the little screws that hold the plates in place? Did you loosen them? It has happened that people put the plates back in backwards, then they stick. They also could need to just be aligned a little better...that is trial and error. Lastly, if you tightened up the nuts on the end of the shaft to much...they will stick...try loosening the nuts just a tad. Rich |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 14 2009, 05:21 PM
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#130
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Never touched the plates or the end nuts. I'll try backing off the nuts a little.
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| r_towle |
Oct 14 2009, 05:26 PM
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#131
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,705 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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You may have gotten some crud in the bearing at the end.
Bend the tab down...loose it just a tad and give that a try. rich |
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| jmill |
Oct 14 2009, 06:12 PM
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#132
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Green Hornet Group: Members Posts: 2,449 Joined: 9-May 08 From: Racine, Wisconsin Member No.: 9,038 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 14 2009, 12:34 PM) So, if I disconnect the throttle cable I can leave the linkage on as I balance the carbs? The only reason you need the linkage in the begining is to start the car and get it running and warm. Whether you want to use the gas pedal or your hand depends on if you have a helper or a remote start switch. You then need to adjust your mixture screws and get it to idle. At first spin the idle stops in or out the same on each side to increase or decrease idle speed so it runs. This is just initial stuff. Chances are you'll be playing with the mixture screws and idle stops for a bit to get it running decent. After that you can disconnect the linkage and balance the carbs at idle. Adjust the flow from side to side using the idle stop. You can adjust the air bypasses to get it the same from barrel to barrel. Once you get them flowing the same and idling nice you connect the linkage. The hex bar is much different than yours. You use the same idea to sync it but you have less pieces to adjust. |
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| SGB |
Oct 14 2009, 07:37 PM
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#133
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just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
My own set up baseline on each carb- disconnected from any linkage- is:
3 1/2 turns out from stop on the mixture volume screws and 1/2 turn out from stop on the air bypass screws. Many get fine results with those air bypass screws all the way tight, but my car gets a little better mileage with some extra air. IDK, maybe it compensates for a slightly rich .50 idle jet, but smaller made the car run hot. edit- also my return springs are prolly shot, b/c my setup requires a pretty serious return spring to the firewall and a return spring at each carb too. Anyway, everything snaps shut just fine now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) edit 2- Awesome 24 inset quotes, Mark! |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 15 2009, 11:17 AM
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#134
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Helped a little...maybe. It's funny after I open the throttle, if I release it with any amount of sanp...even a little...it closes. If I purposely restrict it's closing (as if one were drifting to a stop and easing off the throttle like a freakin chauffeur) and ease it in very slowly, it hangs up right before closing. Sure seems to be either crud or need of a new spring to me. Is it OK to stretch the spring a little?
QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 14 2009, 07:26 PM) You may have gotten some crud in the bearing at the end. Bend the tab down...loose it just a tad and give that a try. rich |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 15 2009, 11:19 AM
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#135
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Bad news. Went to reassemble the intake manifolds this morning and found out my studs are to short for the fat phenolics. I really can't see trying to remove the studs and potentially creating a new problem, so I'm thinking it's just better to go with the thins ones that were already on there before hand (new ones of course).
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 15 2009, 11:52 AM
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#136
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
YOU FREAKIN' PUSSY! DON'T DO IT HALF ASSED...YOU'VE REBUILT WEBERS FOR CHRISSAKE...TAKE THE DAMN STUDS OUT AND DO IT RIGHT!!!
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 15 2009, 01:19 PM) Bad news. Went to reassemble the intake manifolds this morning and found out my studs are to short for the fat phenolics. I really can't see trying to remove the studs and potentially creating a new problem, so I'm thinking it's just better to go with the thins ones that were already on there before hand (new ones of course). |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Oct 15 2009, 11:53 AM
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#137
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,486 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
OK. Enough with the berating...I'll do it. Geeeshhhhh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 15 2009, 01:52 PM) YOU FREAKIN' PUSSY! DON'T DO IT HALF ASSED...YOU'VE REBUILT WEBERS FOR CHRISSAKE...TAKE THE DAMN STUDS OUT AND DO IT RIGHT!!! QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 15 2009, 01:19 PM) Bad news. Went to reassemble the intake manifolds this morning and found out my studs are to short for the fat phenolics. I really can't see trying to remove the studs and potentially creating a new problem, so I'm thinking it's just better to go with the thins ones that were already on there before hand (new ones of course). |
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| tat2dphreak |
Oct 15 2009, 11:54 AM
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#138
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
wow, I thought I was a post whore.. you have upped the post-whore game to include arguing with yourself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) well done.
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| SirAndy |
Oct 15 2009, 11:55 AM
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#139
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,469 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Oct 15 2009, 09:19 AM) I really can't see trying to remove the studs Removing studs only takes a few seconds. Use the good old double-nut trick to back them out. Then get some longer studs and put them in using, yes, you guessed it right, them double-nuts ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Andy |
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| type47 |
Oct 15 2009, 11:57 AM
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#140
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Viermeister Group: Members Posts: 4,254 Joined: 7-August 03 From: Vienna, VA Member No.: 994 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I would be nice if the ole "double nut" technique to remove the studs worked... (I'm sure you know that trick...)
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