Cheap Engines, 1911 cc - 100 hp Options

[McMark]

I must assemble It myself ( risky ) or pay to get it assembled ( expensive ).

This is where I come in! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Cheap Labor! See post #1.

[Jake Raby]

To each his own is correct.

This engine is just as simple to build as a 36HP Type I engine. You only need a set of craftsman tools and a 10 dollar torque wrench to do the job- You ain't doing that with a 911 engine and you won't do a six conversion on your dining room table if you want, but you can assemble this engine there if you want!

The crate of parts is no where near 3799, my post said 2800 bucks!

OOps, I just looked at it and it did say 3800- It was suppose to be 2800!

When your six breaks (all engines break, none are immune to it) you will be wishing that you had something a tad more simple and cheaper to work with. For the amount of a rebuilt alternator for a six I can sell someone a set of pistons and cylinders for a -4!

This post was not meant to start a six Vs -4 battle. The post was titled "Cheap engines" so I have no clue why a six enthusiast would even care about looking at it.

Now I'm gonna edit my earlier post- It was a type o

[Mueller]

Let me see if I hear the deal correctly.
$3799.00 get's me a crate of high quality parts?
I must assemble It myself ( risky ) or pay to get it assembled ( expensive ).
Seems like $5k or more to me  
I'm looking at a SIX conversion for under $4k, including a
running engine. ( that I can do myself )
To each his own...

you are not a normal case, (LOL), not everyone has gotten a killer deal on a /6 motor like you have........

Mark D mentioned building the motors for locals to help keep the costs down, not sure what he'd charge, but I doubt it'll be more than $500, seems like a decent deal...sure there will always be "cheaper" ways to go, but sometimes being cheap can bite you in the a$$ later on down the road (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jake Raby]

BTW,
I never said that 1.8 and 2.0 heads made the same power.. They don't BUT on an engine this small the differences are not enough to pay the difference in cost for the 2.0 heads.

I use our 1.8 heads on some engines that have made over 200HP. There is nothing golden about the 2.0 except it makes MORE POWER IN 100% STOCK FORM!

Hell my newest 914 R&D engine has vanagon square port heads with 2.0 plug location and chamber work- There is no standard.

[Trekkor]

you are not a normal case, (LOL),

Huh!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I'm not? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Noooooooooo! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)


I guess when I hear " cheap " , which I try not to be,
I'm thinking of the assembled long blocks in Hot VW's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

KT

[Gint]

my first 914 had a 1911 (1.8 based) and my driving instructors thought it pulled better than their 2.0 914's

Ditto. My very first 914. 74 1.8 with 96mm PCs. It even had, are you ready? - hydraulic lifters! GASP!

I loved that car! The bottom end torque was fantastic.

[Mueller]

Hey Mikey...is that the car I drove with you in TX at the wramble??? had a blast in that car alright...thanks for handing me the keys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

[Levi]

Cheap Engines???
Get real, this stuff is spendy...unless your trippin over $100.00 bills
Chevy V-8 coversions can be cheaper then just Jakes "cheap" parts"
just look at Andyrews conversion
This is the reason I'm selling all my 914's and buying old Chevy's
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[McMark]

Anyone who can do a V8 conversion for $3000 is cutting some major corners. And if you count in the time you 914 will be up on jack stands this deal blows a V8 out of the water/coolant. Back to reality.

[Levi]

My point is this....Jakes Parts are NOT CHEAP..peroid...
He is high end...and thats NOT a bad thing....I'm just saying...IT'S NOT CHEAP!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Gint]

Hey Mikey...is that the car I drove with you in TX at the wramble??? had a blast in that car alright...thanks for handing me the keys

Yup. It runs even better now. Pete (current owner) has tweeked the carbs and a few other odds and ends. He drives it every day.

[rhodyguy]

much better. the climb to $3800 over night had me going, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif). considering the refurbished heads, it's cheaper than buying the parts from the various vendors. cheap and less exspensive are 2 different concepts.

kevin

[Jake Raby]

Levi, I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes, but it damn sure wasn't me.

If someone wants to buy shit parts from some clown that sits behind a desk and has no clue how even tune a Type IV engine- thats fine. I build these engines everyday and know what works and what don't and can offer advice that some parts pusher has no clue about. Think he can tell you precise timing and jetting or AFR for a comple engine design??? Hell no!

Just ask DNHUNT here how easy his engine basically fell together with me being 2000 miles away and sending him compatible parts.

DAMN I DON"T EVEN SELL PARTS!

The stuff that I was offering ( and I did not offer it here because of this kind of bullshit) was primarily aimed toward beetle owners that have no engine already and 100HP is a HUGE leap for them over the stock engine or a tweeked type I.

This post was not started by me! It was started by someone else that also thought the offer was a good deal. Excuse me for opening the son of a bitch!

Sure you can buy generic chevy parts for 1/3 the price, and since you have that attitude you should do so. Hell I have said many times if I were going to do a conversion I'd slap in a cast iron slug myself!

What a way to start a Friday, with some whining bullshit! Go into this business yourself, work 14-18 hour days (while paying employees more than you make yourself as the owner) trying to have the best things available and accomplishing that. You'd take the same stand as me if you had any heart at all for what you do. I do this because I love it- if not I'd be twisting wrenchs 9-4 on Turbine engines, have benefits, get paid holidays and be like a normal person. The day this is a job, is the day I'll sell the whole damn place.

I think I'll go down to the junkyard and find something to beat on with a sledge hammer!

[rhodyguy]

serenity now jake. i watched dave's engine go together. sorry, imho it was way too smooth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . a first time assembler should be cursing, and throwing items through windows.

kevin

[Jake Raby]

He would if he bought the parts from some fruitcake that didn't give a damn.

They do it all the time.

I'm trying hard to make this entire engine more known about and easier to assemble for anyone. That includes the 15 year old kid that built his own 2270 with no assistance last year.

[DNHunt]

Ok, I quess I'll jump in here. I wish this thread had come up about 2 weeks later, cause I've put it together but it hasn't run yet. I think that would give my post a little more credibility. With that caveat, I can make some comments.

1) The parts I recieved are absolutely beautiful almost too pretty to assemble. My favorite was the rocker assembly.

2) Everything has fit first time, everytime

3) Jake has supported my assembly with succinct and PROMPT replies. Most of my questions have been answered via email and if I remember right all have been the same day.

4) Jake won't do everything for you. Expect things to come back as they would from a machine shop. I've had to do some of cleaning (I probably should have done a better job before I sent the core). I've checked everything and I did have to remove filings from the oil galleries.

5) He will not spoon feed you. You will have to measure, check and test. When you get it right he'll tell you. It's been sort of student teacher. Fine by me. You will learn a bunch.

6) It's been great

Dave

[red914]

Dave, i sure wish my mom was moving a different weekend, because your "light the fire" party is something i will hate missing. please post lots of pictures, etc.

[Jake Raby]

Dave, Thanks! Thats what I needed to hear!

I won't spoon feed anyone, nor do i clean parts! Cleaning parts is part of engine building!

If I did everything for someone, including cleaning I'd have to charge them for full labor pretty much.

The reason most people buy a kit is becasuse they want to save money on labor, or do it all themselves and know the tolerances.

[blabla914]

Trekkor,

I saw the pictures of your motor. I recently finished doing a similar conversion on my car. I did everything except the machine work to put case savers in the case and the heads myself. I also kept it simple with a 2.0L in E trim.

I won't be real surprised if you can get the running for $4000. I will be real surprised if your setup survives more than 2 summers of being wailed on at track days, autocrosses, and general street driving. Mine didn't. I'm not saying it won't, I'm just saying the cards are not stacked in you favor.

My experience is installing an old six is WAY more risky than doing some basic hop up stuff on a type 4 with average mechanical skills and average tools.

Here's what I learned:

1. only use the hose diagram in the part number list to plumb your oil tank. 914 tanks (both factory and Vellios) have the opposite plumbing from a 911 tank. The diagram in the 914-6 factory manual shows 911 tank plumbing.

2. Do not use a quick six mounting bar if you intend to drive the car like a man. My Patrick mount lasted 5 autocrosses with 205-50 R compound tires. The engine movement bent my shift linkage, ruined cables, and bent by engine tin.

I look forward to hearing how you conversion goes.

Kelly

[SLITS]

What is 100 hours of labor worth?

The racing engines I built for SCCA racing were about $2500 in parts and 100 hours assembly. Assembly was not bolting together - it was cleaning, assembling and checking clearances, disassembling for remachine, assembling and checking again. Yeh I was pushing 14:1 compression and 8500 RPM, but again what is the labor worth to make everything right on the button.

Jake may be an egotist (and for that matter, so am I), but I know where he is coming from and I know he knows what he is talking about.

I really hate to defend another egotist damnit!