Buying Welding Equipment Options

[saigon71]

I started looking into welding equipment for body/hell hole/jackstand repair of my 914. A friend told me that MIG is the way to go for this. My question is what specifications do I need in a MIG welder to get the job done without a lot of grief? Also, what gage steel should be used for making patches?

Thanks

[VaccaRabite]

You want to get a 120 volt mig welder, Miller or Lincoln is fine. Loews and Home Depot both sell decent set ups for about $450-$550. If you weld using true MIG, you need to have a bottle of shielding gas that HD will not have. Find a welding shop. Welding with flux core from a MIG is fine, its just messy and harder to use on really thin stuff. MIG is easier.

Get a auto-darkening helmet from somewhere. Mine is from Harbor Freight and works fine.

Metal is 18 - 22 gauge. I usually get 18 gauge for my patches as the really thin stuff burns through too easy.

Zach

[saigon71]

You want to get a 120 volt mig welder, Miller or Lincoln is fine. Loews and Home Depot both sell decent set ups for about $450-$550. If you weld using true MIG, you need to have a bottle of shielding gas that HD will not have. Find a welding shop. Welding with flux core from a MIG is fine, its just messy and harder to use on really thin stuff. MIG is easier.

Get a auto-darkening helmet from somewhere. Mine is from Harbor Freight and works fine.

Metal is 18 - 22 gauge. I usually get 18 gauge for my patches as the really thin stuff burns through too easy.

Zach

Thanks Zach - appreciate the advice. How many Amps do I need? I noticed some 220V mig welders at Harbor Freight from Chicago http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/...word=mig+welder should I avoid these? I have a 220V outlet in my shop.

[jmill]

Don't get a cheapo welder from harbor freight. Get a name brand welder. You don't need 220V for your 914 110v will handle anything on it. Like Zach said sheilded gas is very nice for less spatter. It's nice to be able to weld the bigger stuff with the 220 if you want to step it up but it's not needed. I have a 220v Hobart with sheilded gas. It's basically a Miller without the infinite amp adjustment. Your welder needs to have at least one infinite adjustment. It's usually on the feed and you have a stepped adjustment on amps. With both being infinite you can adjust it for just about anything you weld.

[VaccaRabite]

Thanks Zach - appreciate the advice. How many Amps do I need? I noticed some 220V mig welders at Harbor Freight from Chicago http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/...word=mig+welder should I avoid these? I have a 220V outlet in my shop.

220volt is too much power. You will have a hard time welding the thin metal that our cars are made from.

The Lincoln 150 (at Home Depot it is the 1500) that I have (15amp, 120 volt) is great. It has enough power to weld 1/4 in wall tube, but can go low enough not to always burn through thin sheet.

Don't buy a welder from HF. It is a false economy.

Zach

[URY914]

Here is my $.02 on saving money on welding equipment. I would buy a self darking welding shield only from real welding supply house. I'm not trusting my retinas to a hood made in some third world country.

[saigon71]

Thanks Zach - appreciate the advice. How many Amps do I need? I noticed some 220V mig welders at Harbor Freight from Chicago http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/...word=mig+welder should I avoid these? I have a 220V outlet in my shop.

220volt is too much power. You will have a hard time welding the thin metal that our cars are made from.

The Lincoln 150 (at Home Depot it is the 1500) that I have (15amp, 120 volt) is great. It has enough power to weld 1/4 in wall tube, but can go low enough not to always burn through thin sheet.

Don't buy a welder from HF. It is a false economy.

Zach

Cool deal. When I get my car road ready, it would be great to get a few of the Central PA 914 owners together with their cars. I just found a shop close to home that does machine work and has some parts as well. Check out their site: http://www.aircooledracing.com/
Will probably buy my welding equipment tomorrow.

Thanks.
Bob

[sean_v8_914]

Millermatic 145. it has tip short protection, infinite power and feed adj and they make an autoset model

[Todd Enlund]

Millermatic 145. it has tip short protection, infinite power and feed adj and they make an autoset model

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

That's what I bought (but it's 140, not 145). I am happy with my choice.

[Mark Henry]

I have a Canox 140 ( a re-badged Millermatic) real simple to use and perfect for thin stuff.
Upgrade to a 20amp breaker and don't use too long or cheap extension cords.

[Spoke]

I have a Millermatic 135 with infinite wire speed and power controls. Works real well on the 914.

I thought about 220V models but settled on a 110V model. This was a good choice as it is easier to move the welder to the car vs. the car to the welder. I have 110V outlets on all walls of my garage.

[aircooledtechguy]

I've got a Lincoln 135 MIG that does just about anything I need it to do. Definitely get one with a bottle for best results.

Also, with the economy down right now, there are TONS of deals on new or nearly new MIG welders on Craigslist. Check out your local board to see what's available. . .

[jmill]

As far as the bottle goes, get a big one. The little one will always run out when your in the middle of something or on a Sunday when all the shops are closed.

[Richard Casto]

220volt is too much power. You will have a hard time welding the thin metal that our cars are made from.

Actually I don't agree with that at all. Inexpensive 220V units generally let you weld thicker metal single pass than 110V units, but the lower settings are pretty much (if not idential) on 110V vs. 220V. When it comes to welding thin metal its about 90% technique. In fact, much of the welding I do on my car doesn't even require the lowest setting on my 220V unit.

110V units tend to be the easiest to deal with because most people don't have 220V outlet handy. This also allows you to cart a 110V unit to a friends house and be assured you will have power. 220V units allow you to weld thicker metal single pass.

Even if you don't want to use shielding gas today, make sure your welder can use shielding gas.

[jmill]

Actually I don't agree with that at all. Inexpensive 220V units generally let you weld thicker metal single pass than 110V units, but the lower settings are pretty much (if not idential) on 110V vs. 220V.

I have a 220V and a 110v. I agree to disagree with you if you have stepped power settings. Say the 110V has 10 power settings and the 220V has 10 power settings. The 220v power settings will be spaced further apart than the 110v. You have a closer gap on the thinner stuff using the 110v. All bets are off with infinite. Then I agree to agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ghuff]

Go gas to begin with. Learn on the bottle.

By the time I got decent with flux core wire on a VW scirocco welding sheetmetal, I hit the limits of it.

It will never be as clean, or nice looking. You can get good penetration and a solid weld, but due to the flux used it will be nasty.

I am now purchasing a bottle for my Lincoln Electric "weld Pak" 3200 before I touch anythign on my 914.

If you wanted to make ugly, dirty but functional welds that you wont care about years of service from a flux core will do fine.

110 is perfectly fine for what you will be doing.

[Elliot Cannon]

I have a Millermatic 180 that is a 220 volt machine. It has multiple power settings and I can weld from 24 gauge .6mm to 5/16 7.9mm. Maybe overkill for what you want but it isn't "too" much power at all.

Cheers, Elliot

[scotty b]

Miller 250 at home, Miller 140 at the shop, Miller syncrowave 200 tig goes in between. Either mig is just fine for anything you need on a car. Unless you plan on building multiple large objects anything over the 140 is just a waste of money IMHO. Ihave done sheetmetal to frame work with the 140

FWIW IIRC The only 110 volt welder by Miller anymore is the 140

http://cgi.ebay.com/Miller-Millermatic-140...%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Richard Casto]

Actually I don't agree with that at all. Inexpensive 220V units generally let you weld thicker metal single pass than 110V units, but the lower settings are pretty much (if not idential) on 110V vs. 220V.

I have a 220V and a 110v. I agree to disagree with you if you have stepped power settings. Say the 110V has 10 power settings and the 220V has 10 power settings. The 220v power settings will be spaced further apart than the 110v. You have a closer gap on the thinner stuff using the 110v. All bets are off with infinite. Then I agree to agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not being argumentative, but I have a slightly different perspective…

Since we are talking about inexpensive welders, infinite control (other than wire speed) is out of the question. So for example the units you might buy at a Lowes or Home Depot (Lincoln or Miller) would probably have 5 voltage settings (labeled A, B, C, D, E). Both the 110 and 220 units will probably have 5 settings. So yes, the range on the 110 is going to be smaller. So you are technically right about the voltage selection. But I will say that from a practical point of view it doesn’t make a big enough of a difference to matter.

Think of it as being a close ratio transmission. It all sounds good and you “think” it’s going to work better for you but your gearing needs to be matched up to a specific engine and track. So you may have a close ratio 5 speed, but you are not on a road course, but rather an autocross. So you are using 2nd gear nearly all of the time and maybe 3rd sometimes. It may turn out that the transmission without the close ratios may actually work better. Or, the lap times are so close that there is not a statistically significant difference.

So when welding the thickness of metal that you will find on a 914 body panel, the end result is that you are going to be using one maybe two voltage settings on both the 110 and 220 units. As with the transmission example above, it’s just as likely that the settings on the 220 unit might work better than the 110 unit. With proper technique, there is going to be voltage and wire speed settings on both the 110v and 220v units that is going to work just fine on a 914.

In reality, welding technique is going to be a much larger factor than if “setting B on a 110v is better than setting B on a 220v unit”. Of the many threads you see here with people learning to weld, by far the biggest problem that people have is technique (not welding on rust, paint grease, welding speed, distance, angle, etc.) and not issues such as 110v vs. 220v.

So, I am not trying to push anyone to a 220V unit. If you are talking about welding on a 914 I would recommend the 110V unit for a number of reasons. My comments are just to not let anything think that a 220V is going to not work, or not produce just as good as results. I would hate for someone to have access to an existing 220V unit (friend, etc.) or find a great deal on a used 220v unit, already have a 220v outlet in their garage and then read this thread and think “Oh, a 220v unit it just going to blow holes through my car” (which is 100% inaccurate), then go out and spend more money on a brand new 110v unit.

[Todd Enlund]

Since we are talking about inexpensive welders, infinite control (other than wire speed) is out of the question. So for example the units you might buy at a Lowes or Home Depot (Lincoln or Miller) would probably have 5 voltage settings (labeled A, B, C, D, E). Both the 110 and 220 units will probably have 5 settings. So yes, the range on the 110 is going to be smaller. So you are technically right about the voltage selection. But I will say that from a practical point of view it doesn’t make a big enough of a difference to matter.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Depends on your definition of "inexpensive"...

I did a lot of research on 110 units before I decided to spend the money and cry once. I bought a Miller 140AS.

The Millermatic 140AS is a 110v unit with infinite wire speed and voltage. It also has "Autoset", you dial in the metal gauge and the unit selects the wire speed and voltage. I paid ~$600 from Indiana Oxygen, shipped. The local Miller dealer wouldn't even come close to that... instead, they tried to talk me down to a Hobart for $525, and stuck to their $799 price on the Miller. I'd have rather bought local, but $200 difference and them not budging was a deal breaker.

Another difference is that the Miller has a metal feed roller assembly, the Hobart only has a metal roller, the rest of the assembly is plastic.

The Lincoln 140C also has infinite voltage, the 140T does not. The difference between the two is $50-$100 depending on the vendor. The Lincoln 140C is about $20 less than the Miller, but does not have Autoset.