VW Type 1 into 914, What are your thoughts? Options

[Jake Raby]

The 1914 is my favorite TI.. 95% of the engines I build for Beck are 1915s.

For the Spyders the short stroke, high revving, peaky engines are perfect... Thats what the two twin plug engines I am building now are.. With our CNC heads they should make around 160 HP @ 10:1

I once built a 1915 for 150.00 in new parts and put 80 drag race passes on it.. I beat guys at the strip that had 18K in their Rice Rockets...

With boost I built one that made 205HP at the rear wheels.. That was 12 years ago.

[jmill]

Here's the first one. It was in a 64 Kombi. I put in a bus boys select a drop and eliminated the reduction boxes. This one I bunny hopped in front of the house and broke an axle. My friends told me when I stomped on it the rear tire came off the ground a foot. You can see the cheesy carb linkage. I learned that you needed to spend some money on a decent linkage to keep the carbs sync'd.

[Chris Hamilton]

For me it comes down to what is lightest package that puts put most HP for the least amount of $$$$ and maintains some level of reliability. Thats why I like T1 idea.

Don't do it, it'll be too fast! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Speaking of the Type-I's reliability, my dad's have placed in the top 4 of the La Carrera Panamericana for a few years in a row. ( before their civil war thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) , nobody wants to race when you're getting shot at )

If that isn't a true test of an engine, I don't know what is.

[jmill]

I say go for it. If folks can throw in V8's why can't you toss in a T1.

I built the bus 17 years ago and the bug 14. I wish I still had that much hair. I'm sure Jake could hook you up with parts and ideas. I'm thinking a T1 with a Porsche style fan shroud and dual carbs would look quite sweet in your 914.

Heck, I forgot how long I was doing this stuff. I looked at the date on the photo I scanned and just about choked. Man I'm getting old.

[Jake Raby]

I'm thinking a T1 with a Porsche style fan shroud and dual carbs would look quite sweet in your 914.

James already has the DTM cooling system on his engine..

[jmill]

Dooooooooooo it!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[RJMII]

The last Turbo I built was 80X100 and made 283 HP @ 10 PSI boost with 340 lb/ft of torque..

Out of curiosity; how do you keep your turbos cool? This Garret I have setting on the shop floor next to my project has these two lines going to it, one on top and one on bottom... and originally it had this really big thirst for green kool-aid of the ethylene glycol variety.

So how do you cool a turbo that comes from aircooled heaven? (the ceramic bearings must help a bit!)

[Jake Raby]

The DTM does a very good job coupled to LN ENgineering Nickies. This is the 80X100 engine in the RAT lab. This engine is now in Saudi Arabia, in a 912E, believe it or not.

(IMG:http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/334213.jpg)

I'll only build a Turbo engine, either TI or TIV using Nickies. Its really easy to thermally overload an engine with boost and cast iron cylinders.

The first key is building an engine efficient enough not to generate a ton of heat and then to use components that can get the heat it does generate into the cooling air stream as fast as possible.

Without cooling capability, no cooling system can be effective.

[DBCooper]

Paul,

It says it's a 2332cc turbo injected engine- aka it needs a crutch to get that level of efficiency and power.

If power levels are equal, a turbo engine will never be as efficient as a non-turboed engine. Car manufacturers such as Volvo have been doggy engines and boosting their output with a turbo. Take off the turbo, and it's still a dog.

Putting it another way, the power of that 2332cc turbo engine is WAYYYYY less without the turbo.

Ken

Look at the same thing from the other direction, Ken. Would that 2332 EVER be able to make 300 hp as a normally aspirated engine? Of course not. So the turbo was able to add about 100 horsepower, pulling more power out of the same assembly exactly because it was able to make it more efficient.

What you're saying is typical of the irritation of NA guys who have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars improving the power of their NA engines by 40 percent, when they see somebody double their HP half the cost by adding a turbo. They're right, they've done a lot of good work, but bottom line is that other guy just DOUBLED his hp. Numbers don't lie, he's got twice the power for half the price. Dyno doesn't know there's a turbo there, nor his transaxle. That's a reasonably good deal, seems to me.

Actually I've had several of those turbo Volvos. A Cortina as well, though it was NA.

[Joe Bob]

Yeah, but geez that heat issue can be a bitch. The T1 I have in my tube frame Speedster eventually needed two external 10 x12 coolers with fans in addition to the stock cooler in the doghouse and an intercooler.

NOW, it sees 200F on the highway doing 85mph and 190F at idle and cruisng down Main Street.....took me two years on a partime basis to get it right. It was fun but geez, a lot of work. A lot of BAD information out there. Especially on the Megasquirt controllers.

At least I didn't tank the motor....which I have done in the past....actually I DID tank it, but that was at the beginning and it turned into a favor. I found a LOT of stoopid things done by the previous owner.

On the T1 in a 914 specific application....I would think the exhaust would be the most challenging as well as a workable heater.

Go for it, I'd like to see it.

[Jake Raby]

The TI would certainly only be a viable solution in a 914 for very limited street use.. 5th gear in a 914 with a TIV and it's 26% greater cooling surface area is a bitch, a TI in a 914 with a stock ZD 5th would be murder on head temps

The T1 I have in my tube frame Speedster eventually needed two external 10 x12 coolers with fans in addition to the stock cooler in the doghouse and an intercooler.

NOW, it sees 200F on the highway doing 85mph and 190F at idle and cruisng down Main Street.

remember:
OIL temp is not engine temp!! The two are hardly related and it is possible to kill an engine due to a head/valve related failure and never get the oil past 180F..

Cooling the oil does not and will not cool the heads.

[DBCooper]

Yeah, but geez that heat issue can be a bitch. The T1 I have in my tube frame Speedster eventually needed two external 10 x12 coolers with fans in addition to the stock cooler in the doghouse and an intercooler.

Jeez Mike, with that many radiators you may as well have put in... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) a Subaru....

[to all you concours wonks that was a JOKE. I would NEVER seriously suggest that he soil his outlaw Speedster with anything non-Wolfsburg... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) ]

[RJMII]

The DTM does a very good job coupled to LN ENgineering Nickies. This is the 80X100 engine in the RAT lab. This engine is now in Saudi Arabia, in a 912E, believe it or not.


I'll only build a Turbo engine, either TI or TIV using Nickies. Its really easy to thermally overload an engine with boost and cast iron cylinders.

The first key is building an engine efficient enough not to generate a ton of heat and then to use components that can get the heat it does generate into the cooling air stream as fast as possible.

Without cooling capability, no cooling system can be effective.

So is the turbo itself just kept cool with oil temperature regulation and low EGT from being efficient in the first place?

[Joe Bob]

The TI would certainly only be a viable solution in a 914 for very limited street use.. 5th gear in a 914 with a TIV and it's 26% greater cooling surface area is a bitch, a TI in a 914 with a stock ZD 5th would be murder on head temps

The T1 I have in my tube frame Speedster eventually needed two external 10 x12 coolers with fans in addition to the stock cooler in the doghouse and an intercooler.

NOW, it sees 200F on the highway doing 85mph and 190F at idle and cruisng down Main Street.

remember:
OIL temp is not engine temp!! The two are hardly related and it is possible to kill an engine due to a head/valve related failure and never get the oil past 180F..

Cooling the oil does not and will not cool the heads.

Y E S, Jake....I know that....but still a good point for those that don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I have an EGT, head temp, oil pressure/temp and a few other gauges that give me readings....my head temps always ran cool....325F across the board...I run an aviation type coupler that allows me to switch and read all four holes on one gauge. My EGT runs 800F-1000 depending if I'm under boost or not.

I limit it to one bar even though I can crank it up if I wanted to. The biggest issue is keeping the charge side sealed. I keep a water and Dawn soap solution ready to spritz the charge pipes at the unions looking for leaks and at the hats of the ITBs....the heads have been keeping sealed as they were prepped to take boost.

As to the coolers....I just needed another one to balance out the op temps at the temp I have set on the thermostat. It seems to like it now......

Funny how it gets more looks on the road than high digit REAL rides in this town....I can be in traffic and a Ferrari ahead of me and a XKE Jag beside me and "I" get the thumbs up or the click from the camera phone....wierd....dunno, might be my foil helmet.....

[james2]

Nickies.? Think that would do Jake?

[Jake Raby]

Nickies.? Think that would do Jake?

It would help as the thermal conductivity is 4X greater than cast iron...

I'll have a used set of 95mm TI Nickies ith custom JE pistons and Porsche rings coming from a test engine soon...

[james2]

Ah!, experienced parts. My favorite!

2382?

[Jake Raby]

Yep.. BUT the guys at Beck might buy the whole engine.. You have first dibs if they don't buy it as is :-)