Webercarbsdirect.com, Buyer beware!! Options

[aircooledtechguy]

You can bash China for sometimes producing crap, but as mentioned previously here, high quality is possible from there. Its all about finding an honest factory, clearly defining your standards, and them sticking to them. You can find dishonest business people in ANY country. I work with the technical outerwear market, and the finest technical garments in the world are coming out of Asia. We barely know how to make the stuff here anymore.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Mt neighbor has silk bedding made over there as well as a host of other products. You have to find the right people and inspect everything all the time. It's a cultural thing.

[DBCooper]

When this discussion began I e-mailed webercarbsdirect and asked them this:

I'm told that a set of your 40 IDF's for VW are actually Chinese knock-offs? I was a little surprised to hear that since your website says "genuine Weber" repeatedly. I know Weber doesn't make carbs in China, so could you affirm that the castings and all components and parts in the carbs you sell are sourced from Weber Italy or Spain?

They (sales@webercarbsdirect.com) responded:

Hello All of our Weber Carburetors are genuine. Weber Carburetors have not been made in Italy since 1990. As with most automotive parts these days our products are manufactured throughout the world. We carry both Asian and Spanish made Weber Carburetors. What product were you looking to purchase? We will check to see what Genuine Weber Carburetor we have in stock. For more understanding of Genuine Weber see enclosed likn from our website. Thank you

http://nebula.wsimg.com/6cd0ee31d45c522709...p;alloworigin=1

"All our Weber Carburetors are genuine" sounds pretty good, right? Just bit of doubt about that one phrase "We carry both Asian and Spanish made Weber Carburetors." That's wiggle-room, so I asked, straight up:

OK, good. I don't want the Chinese so I guess the question is if your 40mm IDF carbs in stock are made in Spain. Is there any price difference between the two?

And this morning the answer:

Hello Sorry only the Asian made carbs in stock. Thank you for asking

Notice how he never said "Chinese" but instead "Asian"? Strange as it may seem costs in China have been going up pretty significantly in the last decade or so, meaning a lot of the low-cost manufacturing is migrating to Vietnam, Thailand and India, which may explain the use of "Asian". That's for price-only manufacturing, because standards in those countries are typically inferior to Chinese quality. In other words using "Asian" is not a good sign.

From that previous Redline explanation it would seem that Weber Italy lost control of its mark long ago, so if you buy from webercarbsdirect you're going to get whatever they think it best to supply, and unfortunately that appears to be the cheapest carbs they can get. With that in mind Joe's original advice, "Buyer Beware!!" may be the best. Anyway, now you know, so you can make intelligent choices.

[worn]

For my resume? Sorry, what?

Their "plan"? Come on, you're giving them WAY too much credit, and not giving our people nearly enough. It's called competition, and supposedly we're good at it. When it's worth our while we can manufacture anything we want. WHEN it's worth our while.

I think the DB has a lot of good points and the actual email exchange with the company was very enlightening.

As for competition, if you have a government that is willing to subsidize sales at a loss you can effectively run others out of business and then jack up the prices. I think that has indeed happened as a plan in some arenas. Or if you have a group of wealthy individuals agreeing to fix prices you can do the same sort of thing. I think all of that is going on in this day and age and the capitalist model is largely broken with large scale businesses. Competition simply doesn't exist between some businesses.

At the weber level though the product is simple to manufacture if you want to, so we have a chance. Isn't PMO a US product?

[euro911]

Competition as we used to know it doesn't play today. How can American manufacturers, with American workers on American soil, compete with the extremely low wages paid workers in Asian and South American countries?

Hell, American workers all over the country are fighting for a huge increase in the minimum wage as it is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Increasing the MW is clearly not a wise decision if we're attempting to successfully 'compete' in the global manufacturing economy. Add union wages to the mix and we're shooting ourselves in the other foot.

So the alternative has been to outsource manufacturing to foreign companies, and in doing so, we've subjected ourselves to accept inferior products in a lot of cases (this Weber issue for example).

The prices of imported products will eventually increase to the price level of American made products, and by then we will no longer have the work force, facilities or tooling in place to correct the problem.

[TJB/914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
Wow, I wonder what I have?? There is a small Webber logo on the side of these carb?? I've had them many years & always thought they were Webber. I had them on sale Saturday at our local Porsche swap meet asking $150 or BO for the pair. Nobody was interested or picked them up to inspect. Looks like I'll use them for boat anchors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
BTW: I had two of my grandkids selling my stuff at the swap meet for pocket money & the only thing selling good was my car models. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)
Tom

[Jonathan Livesay]

Aren't those for Fiats?

[aircooledtechguy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
Wow, I wonder what I have?? There is a small Webber logo on the side of these carb?? I've had them many years & always thought they were Webber. I had them on sale Saturday at our local Porsche swap meet asking $150 or BO for the pair. Nobody was interested or picked them up to inspect. Looks like I'll use them for boat anchors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
BTW: I had two of my grandkids selling my stuff at the swap meet for pocket money & the only thing selling good was my car models. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)
Tom

DO NOT; I repeat, DO NOT use those as a boat anchor. Weber 40DCNF carbs are good carbs. Do you have the type4 intake manifolds for them too?? If so, I'd be interested in them for a project I have on the back burner.

PM me when you have the time. . .

[SirAndy]

How can American manufacturers, with American workers on American soil, compete with the extremely low wages paid workers in Asian and South American countries?

By making a quality product and selling it with enough margin to make a living.

I worked for an all American manufacturing company for the last 5 years.
They do everything right here in Hayward, CA from product design, engineering to manufacturing, sales and yes, even customer service.
Nothing is outsourced, it's all in-house.
The company is privately held and the two owners explicitly asked for the workers on the production floor to be unionized(!) and they pay competitive salaries.

All that and yet the company has been profitable for the last 40+ years.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[ice cold]

Well as expected webercarbsdirect has not returned my phone call. As soon as you say you have a problem the send you to the special unmanned line. On the other hand Redline did answer my original call and as promised called me back by the end of the day to place my order. To answer the question if Redline is a trusted dealer YES!! even Wikipedia says that Worldpac is the importer for Weber and they retail through Redline. They were beyond helpful and new genuine Webers are on their way. An expensive lesson to be sure, but it is what it is. I also filed a complaint per DB's suggestion now am just waiting for the black helicopters to appear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

How can American manufacturers, with American workers on American soil, compete with the extremely low wages paid workers in Asian and South American countries?

By making a quality product and selling it with enough margin to make a living.

I worked for an all American manufacturing company for the last 5 years.
They do everything right here in Hayward, CA from product design, engineering to manufacturing, sales and yes, even customer service.
Nothing is outsourced, it's all in-house.
The company is privately held and the two owners explicitly asked for the workers on the production floor to be unionized(!) and they pay competitive salaries.

All that and yet the company has been profitable for the last 40+ years.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

The key here of course is "the company is privately held". The CEO of a 'publicly' held company must show the stock holders every year (or quarter) that profits are continually going up. If he can raise the stock price and profits 10% by sending 50% of the jobs off-shore, he will do that or start up dating his resume. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Greed it good. "After all, we are not communists"..... Don Barzini. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

I bet these are real (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[914_teener]

All this over some bad Fallopian tubes........

The link posted says in "name" only. So if they say "Genuine Weber" that means in name only. You got what you paid for.

All the rest doesn't matter....whether or not the company has a CPK analysis done...union shop....blaah blaah...

More reason just to keep D-jet or other FI system.

Let's face it folks...the market for air-cooled performance carburetors is not a growing market.

Sorry.

[DBCooper]

Competition as we used to know it doesn't play today. How can American manufacturers, with American workers on American soil, compete with the extremely low wages paid workers in Asian and South American countries?

Yeah, that's what they never told you when they were negotiating all those "free trade" agreements. But it's not all bad, really. The whole concept of "globalization" means that Chinese guy's salary will increase, and ours probably decrease, until the whole world's on a more even basis. But it isn't all bad, because we're also big consumers, and if we ever get poor and can't buy any more then that Chinese guy's going to lose HIS job, and so on until we find equilibrium. You can say that's a bad thing but I don't think so, it's just different. Things always change, always have changed, always will change. So things will be different, and I think, overall better.

The prices of imported products will eventually increase to the price level of American made products, and by then we will no longer have the work force, facilities or tooling in place to correct the problem.

You COULD look at it that way, but to be consistent you'd have to be sad we don't ride horses any more so the buggy whip industry disappeared. And vacuum tubes. Things will change, sure, but why do we have to make steel ,for example? You need steel, of course, but Nevada doesn't make steel, and they're doing OK. (well...) And Nebraska doesn't grow oranges or make computers, but they're doing alright. Heck, I think big steel mills are largely gone from England, but they're still making cars. And so on. You don't HAVE to have heavy industry to prosper, or high tech, or banking services, and so on. Americans are smart, ambitious, and tough. Things will be different, sure, but they'll be fine. We'll, except for pollution, global warming and zombies. Those are some sticky problems.

[Porschef]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

My air cooled dream...

[euro911]

By making a quality product and selling it with enough margin to make a living.

I worked for an all American manufacturing company for the last 5 years.
They do everything right here in Hayward, CA from product design, engineering to manufacturing, sales and yes, even customer service.
Nothing is outsourced, it's all in-house.
The company is privately held and the two owners explicitly asked for the workers on the production floor to be unionized(!) and they pay competitive salaries.

All that and yet the company has been profitable for the last 40+ years.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

That good to hear, Andy, but becoming more of an anomaly as time goes by.

I have no idea what type of product your company manufactures, but when we take a look at the bigger picture in general, there's no arguing that American factories with American workers are dwindling. I'm not saying there aren't successful manufacturers still operating here, but they are definitely on the decline. Just pointing out facts.

Also, when we see major [US, Asian and European] automobile manufacturers operating plants in foreign countries, the truth becomes more evident. When you pay a workforce minimal wages, your production costs are less than your competitors. Look at the labels on the products we buy … where are they being manufactured? 'Made in the USA' tags and placards just aren't as prevalent as they once were.

[Beeliner]

Wages aren't the only expense.

Continue to bring down energy prices compared to other countries and lower transportation costs will help too.

Add automation and we gain in many areas.

[euro911]

Wages aren't the only expense.

Of course not. Taxes on start-up businesses (any business) aren't helping the situation either. Until costs from government agencies and wasteful/unaccounted for spending are curbed, taxes will continue to be a thorn in our side.

Continue to bring down energy prices compared to other countries and lower transportation costs will help too.

I agree. And we are obtaining most of the solar energy products from overseas. I see the cost per watt down to right around a dollar these days, as opposed to when I first got involved in that market (with domestic manufacturers) ... it was over $16./watt back then.

automation and we gain in many areas.

Automation also places humans out of work too. If we have too many citizens on the unemployment roles, they aren't spending … and we know what that does to the economy, don't we.

[Dave_Darling]

Sounds like this has veered very dangerously close to the Politics and Religion line. May I suggest we steer it away before the thread is locked?

--DD

[DBCooper]

Yeah, politics are bad. Like carburetors. God made fuel injection for a reason, so PAY ATTENTION TO GOD.




[ha ha ha, IBTL]