case work....., thoughts on metal removal... Options

[crash914]

couple of pictures showing 80mm crank and type 1 rods...

Very tight...

[Mueller]

don't they make special cams for tight clearance issues like that??

[machina]

reduced base circle, but I don't think jake recomends it.

dr

[Dave_Darling]

He uses it, actually. But, you don't want to go too far. Just far enough for clearance, generally, and you have to consider the ramps on the cam lobes and such and make sure they're not too steep with the reduced base circle. You also need to consider how the lifter oil holes line up when you to to a reduced base circle cam... And there may be other issues. None are un-solvable, but they all require at least some thought.

--DD

[crash914]

I ment to post the other picture, but too large...too slow for dial up....

With the correct angle the rod will clear the cam.

It is the rod to case (bottom) where the issue is. the case casting rib hits the bolts of the rod.

It should only take a couple of minutes with the dremel....problem solved...

It is a very close fit. by the way, this is a reduced base circle cam....I would expect to have about 1/16inch clearence.....I did not have the cam timed into the crank yet. just eyeballing it for fitup....

[Jake Raby]

You have chosen the wrong connecting rods. Those are Scat rods and are the WORST rods for doing what you are attempting..

also, is that a TI or Chevy journal??? If its a TI journal (2.165) you are not going to get the crank and rods to clear before you lose the integrity of the rod from clearancing.

Reduce that base circle as far as you can, thats about 1" according to the cam grind then start over. A base circle that small wears the hell out of the valve train and lifter bores and changes the acceleration speed of the valves, promoting failures......

I am so used to this that there is nothing to it. I have the combos of clearance memorized.

You are about to realize how cheap my engine kit really is, it takes most guys experiencing this before they wake up.

Its all in the combo............. I learn something better everyday.

[crash914]

Jake, I have the upmost respect for your experience in hi performance motors...

That said....I most likely will have spent as much to build this motor as if I bought one from you. (OR MOST LIKELY MORE!!!)

I will most likely make more mistakes that are costly.

But, being a hard headed german....I like to learn from mistakes. If I bought your motor, it would be plug and play. Where is the fun in that???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

To me, the fun is in the journey...not the destination. Function over form, that kind of thing.....

As you wisely put it...it is in the combo....and as I am discovering, you have been there before and done that.....some of us want to enjoy the journey, most do not. Your experience is every penny.....

Of course, that said, I am a cheap bastard.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Moral of the story, buy an engine from Jake, it WILL save you money....

We need a $$ smiley.....

thanks, herb

[Jake Raby]

Herb,
I have just as much if not more respect for you!

I also feel for you, because I can see how hard you have tried to get this right, and still have issues. This is the way that I learned, and pretty much memorized all the issues with different combos.

You are not alone!

I could have sold you a 100% drop in engine kit, and that would have solved all these hard tasks that cost money, and still offered a challenge for you......

BTW, when those rods are clearanced, and they do need clearancing- They must be rebalanced end for end with the proper jig.. Balance is very important.

[cgnj]

Hi,
Here are my disclaimers. I have no idea what Jake's kits cost. My car has been up on blocks for at least 3 years waiting for the transplant. I have not yet totaled my costs for my 2270 motor yet. I recently had a offlist exchange with Jake regarding my current stock of T-4 parts and which ones I should sell and hold for a future big 4 project.
When I first started this project, I contacted Jake about a 2270 kit. My problem was at the time, I only had the single 2.0 motor that appears on my COA. I really didn't want to core it. I can only recall two other exchanges with Jake. He responded to a post I made on STF re:Shadek oil pump machining, and at one point I emailed and inquired about putting all the stuff that I had accumlated for this project in a box and making a kit out of it. I should have taken his advice and sold it on ebay at a loss and started over. I'd still be ahead. I almost abandoned this project. Tom Perso (Thanks Tom) another DYI 2270 guy kept me in the game. End of Discalaimers

You can probably glean 90% of what you need to know to "assemble" an adequate 2270. With my current 2270 experience, I bet I can venture the right size journal and the right rod vendor. Problem is, that rod I'm thinking of comes in many different lenghts. Which one to pick? I dont know. I can't touch it before I buy it. I think I know. I haven't actually done it. Wanna shell out the cost of a set of rods on my scientific WAG? I can't mock it up look at the amount of piston sticking out of the jug and say oppsie, I'll return it. I need one X long. What about the rod ratio. The list can go on and on and on. Who knows what the best cam is? What size valves?

I'll bet I have over 6K in my motor. I haven't driven the car for over 3 years. I think I've done the best build I could do. I'll dyno the car when I'm done. (We're going to Hersey).
I will be expect at least 130 hp. I'm hoping to get 140 hp. 150 hp, well even a blind squirrel can find an acorn once in a while.

Nobody ever factors in their time, or the value of actually driving the car. The whole time this is going on, you can't drive. BTDT ask me how it feels. And for the satifaction of almost getting it right.

Now I'm going to yell at Jake. The last time I hit your site, it said that you don't supply 914 kits. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. I think they may be available, obviously some people can get them. What's up? [COLOR=blue]I think I know. Too many tire kickers as it is.

[COLOR=black]BTW, I'm not in the market for a kit. I'll go turnkey. My son has seen the same motor mocked up and torn down at least 10 times. I don't even tell him what size wrench, he looks at the task in hand and hands it to me.

Crash, BTDT. I wish you the best. If you need advice or a pep talk feel free to PM My uninformed opinion, If that's a type 1 journal, I don't think you're going to make it.

Carlos

This post has been edited by cgnj: Mar 24 2004, 01:00 PM

[Jake Raby]

Its all about trial and error...

My very first big TIV was wasted due to the crank touching the cam at 6K... The next one drooped a valve, the list goes on...

Now we only have failures from parts, but learn something new everyday..

[davep]

I kind of imagine that static clearances while assembling are not quite the same as dynamic clearances at 6000 rpm.