FARK ... The Porsche Gods Do Sing, For Gwen |
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FARK ... The Porsche Gods Do Sing, For Gwen |
SLITS |
May 10 2010, 10:50 AM
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#1
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Ok, tore down the Grey Ghost's engine to determine what happened on the way to Wickenburg ... images below:
I am missing something: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i239.photobucket.com-1696-1273510232.1.jpg) Oooooo, that hurts: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i239.photobucket.com-1696-1273510232.2.jpg) Bits and pieces: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i239.photobucket.com-1696-1273510232.3.jpg) Tested all factors on the CIS and flow on the injectors is within 5% of each other. Analysis: Cylinders 1 & 2 on a flat six are the poorest cooled of all. Apparently, #1 got hot and detonated (poor gas, bad timing) and broken ring lands / rings were the result. Oh well, now in search of a good used Mahle P&C. I will be adding a Cylinder Head Temperature Gauge to #1 cylinder to monitor temps from now on. Thank you Ferry, where ever you are in the universe ............... |
McMark |
May 10 2010, 10:52 AM
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#2
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
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Root_Werks |
May 10 2010, 11:20 AM
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#3
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,331 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
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VaccaRabite |
May 10 2010, 11:26 AM
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#4
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,456 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
It'll buff out.
Ouch x2 Zach |
effutuo101 |
May 10 2010, 11:57 AM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,735 Joined: 10-April 05 From: Lemon Grove Member No.: 3,914 Region Association: Southern California |
Ugh! I know this feeling.
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carr914 |
May 10 2010, 12:03 PM
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#6
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Racer from Birth Group: Members Posts: 118,899 Joined: 2-February 04 From: Tampa,FL Member No.: 1,623 Region Association: South East States |
What size motor? I've got some low miles Factory 914-6 P&Cs
T.C. |
Cheapsnake |
May 10 2010, 12:31 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 15-November 07 From: Door County, WI Member No.: 8,341 |
Yikes, that's just plain ugly. Gives you an idea what kind of pressures we're dealing with.
Tom |
SLITS |
May 10 2010, 12:38 PM
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#8
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
2.7L Big Port ....
Don't remember the engine #. Mahle 90ZN2W7, height group 6 on the cylinder. Piston is standard bore 0, currently determining weight class of piston (gotta find my manual). |
ClayPerrine |
May 10 2010, 12:45 PM
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#9
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,502 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
2.7L Big Port .... Don't remember the engine #. Mahle 90ZN2W7, height group 6 on the cylinder. Piston is standard bore 0, currently determining weight class of piston (gotta find my manual). I got a complete set of 2.4T pistons and cylinders you can have for shipping costs. |
SLITS |
May 10 2010, 01:07 PM
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#10
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Thanks Clay & T.C. ... I have two other 2.7L engines that I can use for parts. I really appreciate the offers.
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EdwardBlume |
May 10 2010, 05:52 PM
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#11
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California |
That's some messed up engine carnage there Ron... you can't help but feel queezy in the wallet when you look at that..
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ahdoman |
May 10 2010, 06:21 PM
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#12
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It's phonetic...Ah-D-O-Man (Audioman) Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: 7-November 05 From: Santa Clarita, Ca. Member No.: 5,084 Region Association: Southern California |
Ron - When you put that back together make sure you do the cooling tin mod mentioned on the Pelican website. I think it really helps. I did it on the 2.7 I put in the Turd and it stays very even in temp.
Did you find out what made that engine so special? Is the cam grind different? HC CIS pistons? |
SLITS |
May 10 2010, 07:40 PM
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#13
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Ron - When you put that back together make sure you do the cooling tin mod mentioned on the Pelican website. I think it really helps. I did it on the 2.7 I put in the Turd and it stays very even in temp. Did you find out what made that engine so special? Is the cam grind different? HC CIS pistons? Didn't really investigate. It may just be one of the "better" stock engines the factory produced. Haven't pulled a camshaft to see if it a different grind. Need to check the timing on the other cam to see if something was done different. Anyway ... just another Por$che project ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I have a "loaner" 2.7L in the car now. Loaned to me to find out if it would run and how well. I'll fix the other and put it back in. |
J P Stein |
May 10 2010, 09:04 PM
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#14
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Detonaion is a distinct possibility, however.....
The oil ring in the pic is not stock....nor as good as stock (IMO), but that's another subject. Neither of the pics show the piston tops or the effected area of the clyinder top adjacent to the broken area. Both of these spots can show detonation damage. Being as the engine has been re-ringed a check of the clearance between the ring and the land should be done. .004 is max spec. If it is over that, rings have been known to hammer them sevles(and/or the ring lands) to death. Detonation should be visable on the piston tops in the from of bare & possibly mented aluminum. The inner cylinder groove wall for the head gasket is often cracked or distorted in some way by detonation. The cylinders may be worn out of spec making re-ringing not an option on the whole set. If you know all this stuff already, ignore me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) THIS is detonation..... beyond a doubt. Attached image(s) |
Dr Evil |
May 10 2010, 09:29 PM
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#15
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 23,002 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Yeek! I had my ring landing break, not nearly as spectacular. At least you have spares (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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ClayPerrine |
May 11 2010, 06:11 AM
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#16
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,502 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
Detonaion is a distinct possibility, however..... The oil ring in the pic is not stock....nor as good as stock (IMO), but that's another subject. Neither of the pics show the piston tops or the effected area of the clyinder top adjacent to the broken area. Both of these spots can show detonation damage. Being as the engine has been re-ringed a check of the clearance between the ring and the land should be done. .004 is max spec. If it is over that, rings have been known to hammer them sevles(and/or the ring lands) to death. Detonation should be visable on the piston tops in the from of bare & possibly mented aluminum. The inner cylinder groove wall for the head gasket is often cracked or distorted in some way by detonation. The cylinders may be worn out of spec making re-ringing not an option on the whole set. If you know all this stuff already, ignore me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) THIS is detonation..... beyond a doubt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) You would think the owner would hear the detonation that caused that!!!! |
SLITS |
May 11 2010, 07:01 AM
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#17
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Thanks JP ... Piston top / combustion chamber show no signs of detonation whatsoever ... no pits ... nada. The detonation theory was expoused by someone else saying it was a common problem and I went with it.
Ill fitted rings makes a lot of sense from experience with other engines. I looked for signs that the engine had been gone through but didn't really see any. I am not that familiar with what is stock and what is not on a flat six. I do know it's broke and needs to be fixed. |
J P Stein |
May 11 2010, 08:06 AM
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#18
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I'm not trying to discourage you but it appears that all or parts of 2 rings passed
thru that newly machined groove in that cylinder. The big chunks on the sump cover are only part of the shittage in the motor. It needs to come totally apart to clean all of that crap out of the oiling system.....or it will quickly return to a state of dis-repair. |
Cap'n Krusty |
May 11 2010, 08:10 AM
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#19
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
Ron - When you put that back together make sure you do the cooling tin mod mentioned on the Pelican website. I think it really helps. I did it on the 2.7 I put in the Turd and it stays very even in temp. Did you find out what made that engine so special? Is the cam grind different? HC CIS pistons? Care to outline that mod or provide a link for us? Thanks, The Cap'n |
ahdoman |
May 11 2010, 08:42 AM
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#20
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It's phonetic...Ah-D-O-Man (Audioman) Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: 7-November 05 From: Santa Clarita, Ca. Member No.: 5,084 Region Association: Southern California |
Here you go Cap'n. I have also seen discussions about a company that manufactuers "redesigned" cooling tins for the early sixes that provide for better cooling. I don't recall their name off hand but one of the unique features is that they can be installed with the cam towers in place.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...tin_cooling.htm |
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