'71 911T strut assembly, "early" or "late" ? Options

[qa1142]

So as I look at 5 lug parts... Would a '71 911T strut bold directly into my '74?

My ball joints are new, do I have to replace them with something different?

What year do 911T move from "early" to "late" style struts?

Any guess on Boge, Koni, or Bils based on this picture. obviously needs 100% rebuild

Thanks

Will

[qa1142]

calipers - think I can rebuild these or would they need Eric's help?

Rotors would just be replaced with new bearings too.

See any other issues?

What should I offer the guy for the struts, rotors, hubs, and calipers. I may get the whole thing, but not because I want it. Is there any reason I would want it all?

Thanks
Will

[davep]

That is a pretty nice set of S struts and calipers. The calipers would best be sent to Eric because they would likely require the full treatment of re-anodizing, new pistons and new cross-over lines. They could have from from a T optioned with S suspension. The studs on the hubs are pretty long so you will need to use steel nuts to fit unless you use spacers, but in turn they would need wider fenders. The change in ball joint was in 1972 so it is unlikely that your new ones would be correct. That is an ideal set of brakes for a 914 when done up nicely.

[qa1142]

so this is not what I want for narrow body? These would not fit?

[Krieger]

Only the studs will need to be pressed out and replaced with standard 45mm ones. Someone would buy the longer ones from you. You can run as is if you have the open top steel lug nuts. The studs will stick out though. Lugs about $1 each, probably the same for used 45mm studs The shocks are probably Boge. I wouldn't pay more than $300 max for the complete struts. Depending on what you are doing the 911 A-arms have different torsion bars than the 4 cylinder cars, which means more plentifull options for replacements.

[Cap'n Krusty]

That is a pretty nice set of S struts and calipers. The calipers would best be sent to Eric because they would likely require the full treatment of re-anodizing, new pistons and new cross-over lines. They could have from from a T optioned with S suspension. The studs on the hubs are pretty long so you will need to use steel nuts to fit unless you use spacers, but in turn they would need wider fenders. The change in ball joint was in 1972 so it is unlikely that your new ones would be correct. That is an ideal set of brakes for a 914 when done up nicely.

I thought at first glance those might be S calipers, but the second picture shows them better and I don't think they are. Seems to me S calipers come apart in several pieces, and these look like the cast iron type.

The Cap'n

[qa1142]

Early S

http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item...552/4782868.htm

[914Sixer]

Buy them for the cheapest price you can get. 911 control arms are good to have because of lots of bar options. Brakes are early "S". Hub studs will have to be replaced to use stock size wheels on narrow body. Steering rack and crossbar are same as 914. Struts are Boge but you never know what insert are in them until you take the top off. You can tell if they are early or late easily. If the base of the strut has a split opening at the bottom and a 13mm bolt it is early. Rotors are probably boat anchors. I would replace the wheel bearings and seals.

[rudedude]

I parted a 1971T with the same suspension you show.
It has koni struts with the aluminum calipers, so look carefully.
Is that fuel tank in the background for sale?

[Cap'n Krusty]

Early S

http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item...552/4782868.htm

My eyes are old, and maybe that's the problem. In the pictures I can't see the bolted on part on the inside. The Cap'n

[qa1142]

Ok

So who has picture of the bad strut with elongated hole?

What does one retaining pin look like vs the other?

BTW I offered $150 to start saying it needs everything to start
Want to see how bad he needs to get rid of it since it is not even in his shop
I figure if he bites I cannot lose even for cores unless struts are both damaged

I really want "late" so I don't have to replace my ball joints and can just do the stuts, hubs, etc. rest of my suspension has been rebuilt.

More input is welcomed. I have read and re-read the classic threads on 5 lug

Thanks to the brain trust

Will

[toon1]

If you get that for $150, that would be a scremin deal. Jump in it and worry about the details later.

I paid $125 for struts alone, and that was a good deal

[qa1142]

another picture, I didn't think it showed more

[qa1142]

and Right

[jaxdream]

Really depends on caliper bolt spacing ( 3.0" = "M" strut "M" caliper, Alfa alum calipers 3.0" spacing would be nice $$$$ check Eric Shea's site, 3.5 " = "A" struts , S calipers fit it , also cast steel A calipers fit ) also you could sell the hubs , and get 74-89 SC hubs that are hub centric, those pictured are lug centric . It would be a start to a front 5 lug setup and a lot of guys use this setup with good results , if Boge struts you can replace the insert for one rated for a 914 instead of a 911 , and should bolt right in. Find out the particulars , balljoint mounting , caliper bolt spacing , the rest is usable with bushing replacements and a little paint , good luck ...

Jack / Jaxdream

[davep]

Well, those are aluminum S calipers like I said in my first post; it takes me all of 0.5 seconds to figure that out.
The whole assembly could be used as-is in your 914 without a problem; the only part you cannot use is the steering shaft attached to the rack (too short if I recall correctly). Still, it would be best to clean it all up first. The calipers alone are worth $200 to $300, and the hubs $50 to $100 so $500 is not too much to pay.

[Rav914]

Yeah that's a sweet set-up. Buy it. If you don't want it. Turn it around here and make a few $$. I'd take it in a heartbeat!

[Eric_Shea]

Without seeing the tops of the calipers, that appears to be an early 911S front suspension from either a 1969 through 1971 vehicle.

I wouldn't worry about the ball joint rounding as it rarely becomes an issue. If you have the early struts it's a good idea to check before you get new ball joints and bolt everything back together but I wouldn't make that a deal breaker.

The early ball joint strut will have a fairly large M10 (19mm hex head??) bolt squeazing the base and a pinch style base with a gap in ot. The later style will have the pin which should sit flush on one end and have a 13mm self locking nut on the other end.

Those struts are not early Boge because ... those are definately S-Calipers bolted on to them; "THEY MIGHT BE" late model Boges from an SC. This could be because it appears there has been some work done regardless. The longer studs say to me, this came off a car that was raced. You can expect a patchwork of bits here and there to make this work. Say you had a T and you wanted lighter, larger S-Calipers... find some cheap 3.5" struts and you should be good to go. What's a cheap 3.5" strut? SC struts. When I say patchwork, that doesn't mean bad. All those parts bolt together just fine.

If it's all early, my guess is "Koni" on those struts "unless" you see a hint of green there that I can't see. Koni is most common for early 911S cars. It's hard to tell from the pictures but, they appear to taper just above the steering knuckle. Bilstein and Boge struts will be straight all the way down the tube. These appear to be smaller at the base. I'd say regardless, they've been refinished at one time or... they're the later SC Boge. If they're Koni's I would take the time to have them Soda blasted and refinished in Chevy engine block orange.

Moving on. Calipers, is it something you can do or...? Sure, you can do it but, I'd caution you that they should be done right. That involves complete disassembly and finding an anodizer willing to take the time to tape and seal off the steel bits pressed into the calipers (knockback pins). Most anodizers will not do this. They need to be de-anodized first, polished, etched and reanodized. Those are valuable and rare calipers. Basically... they are Porsche 908 calipers that were on real race cars. We have the bits (seal kits, SS pistons and SS, compensation lines) to make it all work for you. These are not CSOB calipers.

They will work fine on a narrow bodied car. The factory installed them on #11 which was a press car with a 906 based engine. The factory also used the appropriate "rear" caliper on that car. The 914-6/GT caliper. You can find a pair of Ferrari cores for around $500 but you will need $150.00 worth of bleeder mods. Google a good pair of "Crampons" for your size boot. You have now stepped foot firmly on the slippery slope. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So, I'd say bottom line is; if the suspension follows the calipers it's probably a Koni system that has been refinished at some time. You'll be able to tell if there's a taper at the base of the strut. If it's a patchwork system to get 3.5" calipers on an early 911T... probably SC Boges. No loss there because, Boges allow all varieties of inserts to be run in them. Koni's only allow "Koni" inserts.

Good: Anthing under $650 - $700 is a decent deal for that suspension ($400 for the struts and various suspension bits and $250 - $300 for the calipers).

Bad: There is no such thing as a cheap S-Caliper. They will need new pistons, seals, anodizing and compensating lines. We regularly sell refinished pairs outright for $995.00. Re-finishing alone with new pistons can run over $500 bucks.

Hope that helps.

[qa1142]

Big help thanks to all

let you know what out come is

Will