Got my car back..., along with a bendover bill Options

[william1764]

She runs great except for some residual popping which everyone is suggesting is an exhaust leak. I reviewed the invoice and it turns out the mechanic didn't replace the exhaust gaskets afterall so I'll do this over the weekend. She purrs like a kitten, idles nice even after cold start...I couldn't be happier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) A list of work performed...

Rebuild carbs, install "owner supplied" rear rotors and calipers, re-install emergencey brake, install new fuel lines, install new fuel pump and reg, install "owner supplied" distributor - all for only $3,000.00!!!

Now I'm not experienced in this arena but I walked out feeling like I got (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) This shop has a great reputaion for its work but is also known for its high prices. The owner said he couldn't give me an estimate because he didn't know exactly what he was getting into except that he felt it wouldn't be "in the thousands"...$3k is considered "in the thousands" isn't it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Anyway, I took my medcine and learned an expensive lesson...GET ESTIMATE IN WRITING next time idiot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Copy of invoive attached

[yeahmag]

The only thing that stands out to me is the distributor work. I can do all that in less than an hour. That seems like over 4 hours of shop time.

What is the hourly labor rate?

[SUNAB914]

OOCH! That hurts.

[bandjoey]

Copy the itemized bill here and someone might give shop hours to do the stuff, giving you some overcharge arguing room with that shop? Just a thought.

[LotusJoe]

That's 3 - 8 hour days if the rate is $100.00 per hour. Seems a bit expensive.

[carr914]

A couple of lessons that your wallet taught you.

1. You need to learn how to work on your car. 914s will always need some tinkering. We are here to help & guide.

2. If you can't do something by yourself, have a BBQ & Beer. Other members will show up & work. You can throw a Hell of a BBQ for $3K

3. Get out there & drive that thing ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[siverson]

I agree, too much. But I've BTDT myself. If he said it would NOT be in the thousands, I wouldn't pay more than $1000. But it's likely too late (or much more difficult now) if you've already paid him.

-Steve

The relevant parts of the PDF:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dio265.diomedestorage.com-654-1282680647.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dio159.diomedestorage.com-654-1282680647.2.jpg)

[underthetire]

I personally think it should have been a little less, but you also have a ~$400 parts bill, and a 98.32 for ???? is that outside work or tax? Don't know bout your state, but here no tax on labor. Total around 2400 for labor, so is 24 hours realistic for all that work.

[william1764]

The difficult decision is whether to use him or not in the future. I actually really liked the guy and he gushed all over the condition of the car...not to mention his reputation for very good work. I knew he was on the expensive side going in and I'm kicking myself for not demanding a written estimate.

During one of our several conversations he mentioned a guy we both knew and a customer of his. He commented that this guy always bitched about his prices at check-out but always comes back with his "stable" of cars...all collector and race cars. Anyway, I couldn't bring myself to question the bill after hearing that story...not to mention because of my ignorance as to whether the bill was even fair or not in the first place.

Thanks for the feedback. I really need to (and look forward to) learn to work on these cars myself...at least the less involved stuff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) In the meantime I just plan to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[realred914]

assuming $100 an hour (for that rate you shoudl get an experineced guy that works fast and accuratly)

four hour to replace dizzie and wire and plugs, common, now i can do that in my driveway in under an hour tops. rip off

four hours to bleed and adjust the brakes, common half a day????? , maybe just over an hour at home, laying the floor with a roll aournd jack, a shop with a lift could shave more time off that. rip off





i am getting full motor rebuild for less labour than charged you


I'd complain to the owner, if not go to the state autoboard and complain, if you did nto agree to three thousand in charges andtalked of under $1000 in charges, then he has no right to go over in prioce without your authorization.

Question him on these charges. I have purchased decent running 914 complete cars for less money than this basic repair bill !

good luck

[Jake Raby]

Lets hope that "15W40 oil" wasn't just anything off the shelf...

Where the hell did he get those part numbers??

600+ bucks in labor to rebuild carbs?? Art Thraen charges less than that and the carbs are completely restored by an expert!

My prices aren't cheap at all and I believe that proper compensation is required, but this even seems a bit extreme to me..

[Eric_Shea]

You got humped on the labor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[ripper911]

Sounds like one of my repair bills, I was going to get my car in the shop for a clutch and oil cooler, they said it would be $2000, I'm doing the clutch myself, still... the oil cooler will get done when I get some $$$$.

[Drums66]

...That's an unfair bill....talk to them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)
(or talk to an agency)

[PeeGreen 914]

You got humped on the labor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) However, if they tuned it on a dyno maybe not. If they didn't that seems very high.

I dunno, good work isn't cheap but knowing the right people is worth every dollar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Gint]

The difficult decision is whether to use him or not in the future.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

No it isn't! Lipstick on a pig. Doesn't matter how cheap the screwing was, if you go back there to get screwed again and pay for it...

That's insane!

[Cap'n Krusty]

Realistically, I would get 5 hours for the carbs, including R&R and tuning them. Maybe a half hour for the distributor, plugs, and wires, an hour for an oil change WITH a sump cleaning AND a valve adjustment (can't even THINK about adjusting the carbs if you don't know how the valves are), maybe an hour and a half for the brake rotor/caliper/bleeding thing, and adjusting the handbrake, and the tank lines thing is up in the air. Maybe 2 hours, maybe a little more. That's 11 hours. I doubt it would actually take that long, but you never know. I don't think the average tech could get it all done in one day, but a day and a half isn't unreasonable.

If he used the right pump (and the one he lists seems way to cheap for a good one), you wouldn't need a regulator. The intake gaskets seem a lot higher than they should be, and the wire set part number has that FLAPS look to it. In California, the state people LOVE to besmirch because of the "difficulty" of doing business as a repair facility, the failure of the shop to issue a written and signed estimate before the tech even opens the hood of the car is grounds for the customer to take the finished car without paying for the work, or even the parts. And there's a good side for the shop: Customers with groundless or bogus claims are shown the door by the Bureau of Automotive Repair. It goes both ways ....................

On the other hand, you appear to have ignored the option to have written estimate, all three parts. That puts you in bed with the guy doing the screwing .........

The Cap'n

[hwgunner]

and list price on those NGK plugs is $1.90 each.

[scotty b]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[william1764]

Man, i'm feeling a bit sick to my stomach (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) . Bottom line is that I screwed up - should of demanded estimate and at the very least questioned the invoice before I paid it. I don't feel comfortable going back now to argue a price reduction but I do intend to convey the overwelming feedback that I received here. Maybe pointless but depending on how he responds will certainly determine any future relationship. Thank you all for the feedback and recommendations.

On another note, i did remove the muffler to replace the gaskets in an effort to rid the popping on decel. Won't re-install until tomorrow because I decided to clean up muffler apply a coat of heat resist paint. Out of curiosity I started the car with just header/exchanger to see if popping still existing - it did. Does this mean my leak is before the muffler gasket or is this typical without muffler installed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . BTW - there was clear evidence that the exhaust was escaping at least at one of the the muffler gaskets as you could see black residue on the bottom outside edge of the gasket (no seal). I'll try to load pic of this tomorrow.

Thanks again all. Bill