Rear Wheel Bearings, Comparsions ? Options

[914Sixer]

DO we know for a fact the Chinese bearings are poorly made? Does anyone have any real world use to report? I have some I am going to use. These bearings are made to ISO 9000 spec. This is an international standard for manufactures, SO why wouldn't that be as good as the other bearing manufactures? Are we sticking our nose in the air over nothing? The European parts manufactures do not seem to want to make the parts for our old cars.

What will really blow you away is the amount of VW parts now being made in China. Do a Google and see what comes up. I was amazed.

[Mark Henry]

My 67 bus had all new german bearings with swepco grease and new seals. I was checking the brakes and I noticed the left fronts were shot. WTF they have >15K on them. Ordered new german bearings but they sent me china. I didn't have time to send them back and they looked fine, ran them all last season and they are still smooth.

[underthetire]

My German boxed rear bearing said made in china. Still going.

[SLITS]

As far as I am concerned, ISO rating mean absolutely nothing except that your paperwork is in the order they want it to be for certification. It in no way guarantees a qualtity product.

China's greatest problem is qualtity control. While it has gotten better, they still jack with alloys, ie., cheapen them when they think no one is looking.

That said, they are probably OK. I don't remember where the bearings I have used were made.

[smontanaro]

As far as I am concerned, ISO [9000] rating mean absolutely nothing except that your paperwork is in the order they want it to be for certification. It in no way guarantees a qualtity product.

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S

[underthetire]

While I agree the ISO doesnt guarantee quality, it does cost to become compliant and a lot of work to do so. A fly by night company wouldn't bother.

[Eric_Shea]

This thread will be a moot point very shortly. Manufacturers like FAG and SKF are screwing the pooch by not managing the supply chain. We've gone for months without inner front wheel bearing for 914's and 911's. The market will not put up with these supply issues any longer. Now, every time they leave a void in the market, it is immediately filled.

I doubt there will be serious problems with the Chinese bearings moving forward. We had better hope not because soon, that will be all there is.

[andys]

Here's a snippet from the Timken WEB site that might be of interest.

CANTON, Ohio: November 2, 2010 – The Timken Company is providing this news release on behalf of the World Bearing Association (WBA). In the last two decades, counterfeiting in general has grown by 10,000 percent, globally. While there has been much reporting about consumers being taken advantage of by counterfeits in music, film, home electronics and designer clothing, a far greater risk lies in industrial counterfeiting of items such as tires, seals and bearings. All these products are safety-critical and fake versions pose a real threat

An interesting aside: Had the thermostat fail in my Explorer twice; factory parts made in Germany. The second replaced with a Chinese made one I got from my FLAPS and it's lasted more than 8 years.

Andys

[Eric_Shea]

All these products are safety-critical and fake versions pose a real threat -- to our bottom line.

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[realred914]

{Drivel deleted by admin}


ISO 9000 means nothing, other than that the maker follows his OWN standards. it is not a measure of quality. It simply means they have the documention to show they built it to their own internal standard.

[jd74914]

ISO 9000 is not a bearing-specific standard. It also doesn't guarantee a quality product but is difficult enough to get that, like Jeff said, it does prove that you have a legitimate company with some quality assurance system in place.

That said, while I haven't tried any Chinese wheel bearings, other Chinese bearings I have used have been comparable in quality to FAG, Timkin, SKF, etc.

[charliew]

THis is only hearsay but what I got from a retired english machnist who's shop supplied oem stuff in Ft Worth was that all bearing making machines originate in germany as they are to expensive to replicate so all bearings should be the same in tolerances. I don't remember his comment on the metalurgy of the products though.

Dang it's cold today.

[Als914]

ISO 9000 is not a bearing-specific standard. It also doesn't guarantee a quality product but is difficult enough to get that, like Jeff said, it does prove that you have a legitimate company with some quality assurance system in place.

That said, while I haven't tried any Chinese wheel bearings, other Chinese bearings I have used have been comparable in quality to FAG, Timkin, SKF, etc.

Jim, you are close.
first, ISO is a word derived from isos, a Greak word meaning EQUAL. In order to do business in various parts of the world that requires ISO certification a manufacturer would need to be certified to meet international stds.. If this bearing Mftr. does it's own designe work then it must be ISO9001 certified meaning that engineering would have it's own quality critea.
All this does not guarantee a defective bearing. What it does guarantee is that an ISO manufacturing process is capable of a 1.33Cpk rejects parts/million or < 94 parts per million rejects.
As a retired plant manager and head internal ISO auditor I can pass on to you this is not easy stuff. My plants certification cost >$150K and a year to acheive certification. This is only the tip of the iceberg. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) And you do not want to loose certification!! So continuous quality improvement is paramount.

[underthetire]

THis is only hearsay but what I got from a retired english machnist who's shop supplied oem stuff in Ft Worth was that all bearing making machines originate in germany as they are to expensive to replicate so all bearings should be the same in tolerances. I don't remember his comment on the metalurgy of the products though.

Dang it's cold today.

While that was true for many years, and there were a few US built machines, ALL bearings are now ground on very precise CNC grinders now, usually from Japan, or Germany. It used to be you could save money on some applications by buying a less precise bearing- like a C5. Last time I tried to buy a C5 it was 3X more expensive, and not in stock Vs the C3 bearing. Since mfg process has changed so much, even in the last 15 years, my bet would be the Chinese bearing TOLERANCE would be better than the 1970 German bearings that came from the factory. Thats not saying they are a better bearing, they could still be made out of inferior materials, but the tolerance and deviation on the bearings will most likely be better.

And it's cold here to, i'm sick of it myself.

[Tom_T]

Marc - my old school German mechanic reccos FAG or SKF
- if still available per what Eric Shea said above.

With all due respect to Al - ISO is not from Greek - it is an abbrev. for International Standards Organization (or similar name) IIRC.
Otherwise, that's some great info from a former ISO QC pro! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The main thing is that whomever is making the product understands & sticks to the specs., and that the QC over that is maintained & not allowed to slip or cheat.

Many of the "independent" low cost Chinese mfgrs. seem to have a propensity to not do some or none of those in their quest for cheap products. There is a guy - 356 Retro or something similar IIRC on evil-bay - who apparently gets his stuff from these questionable vendors/mfgrs.

Whereas, other "new name brand" mfgrs. & the old Euro brands who have plants there & in other Asian countries, etc. - tend to pay more attention to QC in their offshore plants.

[mepstein]

My shop also had bearings for inline skates and skateboards. Japaneese bearings were stock, German- better, Swiss - best - spun forever and you could feel it on the skates. Now ceramic bearings are the hot ticket. I don't believe for a minute that all bearings are the same and I believe Jake Raby would say the same concerning his engines.

[underthetire]

My shop also had bearings for inline skates and skateboards. Japaneese bearings were stock, German- better, Swiss - best - spun forever and you could feel it on the skates. Now ceramic bearings are the hot ticket. I don't believe for a minute that all bearings are the same and I believe Jake Raby would say the same concerning his engines.

Big difference on roller bearing/ball bearings and babbitt bearings...

[Als914]

Marc - my old school German mechanic reccos FAG or SKF
- if still available per what Eric Shea said above.

With all due respect to Al - ISO is not from Greek - it is an abbrev. for International Standards Organization (or similar name) IIRC.
Otherwise, that's some great info from a former ISO QC pro! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The main thing is that whomever is making the product understands & sticks to the specs., and that the QC over that is maintained & not allowed to slip or cheat.

Many of the "independent" low cost Chinese mfgrs. seem to have a propensity to not do some or none of those in their quest for cheap products. There is a guy - 356 Retro or something similar IIRC on evil-bay - who apparently gets his stuff from these questionable vendors/mfgrs.

Whereas, other "new name brand" mfgrs. & the old Euro brands who have plants there & in other Asian countries, etc. - tend to pay more attention to QC in their offshore plants.

Tom,Tom,Tom,
ISO is not an Abbreviation nor an acronym, it is a word adopted from isos,Greek meaning EQUAL. You do not (like so many do) say I-S-O, it is ISO a word. You must have missed many of my ISO classes on this subject (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[SirAndy]

With all due respect to Al - ISO is not from Greek - it is an abbrev. for International Standards Organization (or similar name) IIRC.

ISO is not an Abbreviation nor an acronym, it is a word adopted from isos,Greek meaning EQUAL. You do not (like so many do) say I-S-O, it is ISO a word. You must have missed many of my ISO classes on this subject (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

"Because "International Organization for Standardization" would have different acronyms in different languages ("IOS" in English, "OIN" in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), its founders decided to give it also a short, all-purpose name. They chose "ISO", derived from the Greek isos, meaning "equal". Whatever the country, whatever the language, the short form of the organization's name is always ISO."

http://www.iso.org/iso/about/discover-iso_isos-name.htm

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[stugray]

In my business (hardcore-aerospace), ISO 9000 certification meant one thing:

"Document what your business does", then "Do what your documentation says".....Period.
We called it "Say what you do, then do what you say".

It was merely a mechanism to show that you had documented processes and that you followed them.

I didnt matter if your documentation told you to do something STUPID, if you stuck to it, you get certified.

Stu