914 vs 911, No, not a race Options

[scrz914]

Ok, I know some of you drive/have 914s and 911s. As this is a 914 forum everyone, I'm sure, has a strong opinion about their 914s. I'd like to hear some. What are the advantages of the 914 over the 911. Why did you choose a 914? $$$?, the people?
I know that people tend to dog the 914. Since I bought my first 914 in October I have growing respect for it. But now I have a chance to get a 911 for a good price, but I still day dream about my 914. Hmm...maybe I should keep both...naw, too expensive.
Seriously, I'd like to hear what people think of 911s compared to the 914.

[John]

Just my $0.02.....

Why not keep them both? You can't drive them at the same time.

Depending on what 911 you have, they are very different cars with different purposes. The later models are more comfortable and more heavy and are thus not nearly as nimble as a 914. The early 911's had a similar nimble feeling to the 914s but were just different. I wouldn't say better or worse, just different.

The cars, in my opinion, have different purposes. The 911 is for when you want a sporty ride but not so spartan or bumpy as a 914. The 914 is for when you want a ride in a big go-cart. Either can be like an amusement park ride and are fun to drive, but on a long trip, I would choose my 911 turbo hands down as it is more quiet and more comfortable than the 914. For short trips on bright sunny days, the 914 will easily win due to the ability to go topless. (it is also easier on GAS!)

For track driving, it's a toss-up. You can spend the same amount on either car and have a car with about equal limitations. I prefer the 914 because I have already got one, and it's really nice.

[Carl]

Welcome to the club. It's always good to have new folks posting to the list.

914 vs 911 is always an interesting question. Here are some words I'd use for each.

914: raw, plain, unrefined, light, nervous, responsive, balanced, quick, low, unique.

911: solid, polished, power, brakes, heavy, confident, reliable, durable, recognizable, classic.

They're each great cars in their own way. I love them both but a real advantage with the 914 is this club as a resource.

[markb]

Welcome to the club. It's always good to have new folks posting to the list.

914 vs 911 is always an interesting question. Here are some words I'd use for each.

914: raw, plain, unrefined, light, nervous, responsive, balanced, quick, low, unique.

911: solid, polished, power, brakes, heavy, confident, reliable, durable, recognizable, classic.

They're each great cars in their own way. I love them both but a real advantage with the 914 is this club as a resource.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

They're both great cars, I love driving each of them. If I HAD to give one up, it'd be the SC. I just like driving the 914 more. The 914 is underpowered, and I really enjoy the power of the 3.0 in the 911, but I appreciate the responsiveness of the 914 over the 911. It's just flat more fun to drive. My .02 worth. YMMV.

[96conv]

I don't own a 914 so I have no frame of reference. Does anyone here have a 911 that's prepped for the track or autocross (stiffer than stock torsion bars, sport shocks all around and turbo tie-rods)? How does a 911 like that compare in responsiveness to an equally prepped 914? I had planned to buy a 914 but didn't have the budget for it so decided instead to prep my 911SC. Figured it'd be cheaper plus I'd still have the hp I crave.

[John]

Does anyone here have a 911 that's prepped for the track or autocross (stiffer than stock torsion bars, sport shocks all around and turbo tie-rods)? How does a 911 like that compare in responsiveness to an equally prepped 914?

I don't have one, but I used to work on a prepared 1973 911S. That was a truely fun car. It was light, quick, and very responsive. The main thing I didn't care for was that at speed (140+) the front end would be feather light. I suppose one would get used to that, but I never got enough seat time to feel totally comfortable with it. It was a blast though. Much more responsive than the later heavier cars are.

All things equal (including power), the 914 would probably just squeak by a 911 of equal hardware. With good drivers in each, it would be a run for the money.

Like I said before it would be a toss-up.

If you really want a heck of a track car on a budget (and you don't mind water pumpers) look at 944's or 944 Turbos. Those damn things are cheap and can be made to handle well.

But if you are like me, you will stick to the air cooled for as long as you can.

Just another installment of my feeble free opinions.

[J P Stein]

I've had a couple 9elebens. The last was a 73T with a 2.7 CIS motor and fairly well prepped, suspension wise.

At the same time, my 914 had a 2.4L T 6er and mildly reworked suspension, brakes....yada..

2 old cars and one old fart meant that I was spending all my time and money on em'......one had to go. I enjoyed driving the 914 more....more responsive....connected to the road, if you will.
The 911 was a bit faster and a LOT better looking.
I had less money in the 911 but it was worth more....sad, but true.

Cash from the sale of the 911 provided for a horsepower infusion for the 914 and it's been down hill ever since. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Rusty]

914: raw, plain, unrefined, light, nervous, responsive, balanced, quick, low, unique.

911: solid, polished, power, brakes, heavy, confident, reliable, durable, recognizable, classic.

"Raw, plain and unrefined"... as compared to the 911 of the same years? Having had a 71E and a 914/6, I'd take the 914/6 any day.

The 914 is far more of a refined and balanced driver's car. Unless you're taking about wine-swilling, cheese munching social refinement.

How about this for the 911: Unbalanced, bloated, elitist and tailhappy.

You can keep your flagship car. No thanks!

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[URY914]

I'm debating buying a early 911 or a 914 as a second street car.

I'm leaning to the 911. Rear seat, classic car, 6 cyl, always wanted one.

914-BTDT

Paul

(please don't hate me because of what I just said. I'll wake up tomorrow and I'll change my mind. Go ahead call me a woman. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) )

[ArtechnikA]

"Raw, plain and unrefined"... as compared to the 911 of the same years? Having had a 71E and a 914/6, I'd take the 914/6 any day.

How about this for the 911: Unbalanced, bloated, elitist and tailhappy.

well ... i have that very '71E now, and let me tell you, the more i get into it, the more i know why you didn't like it :-) ... the shell's fundamentally sound (sailed through its recent PA inspection) but all the 'stuff' was worn out from years of neglect and deferred maintenance that i know predated your brief ownership of this car. and since it's an 'E' it doesn't have antiroll bars which really hold it back.

as soon as the new spring plates and front torsion bars show up (still on backorder) i'll be going through all the suspension and i expect to find that the rear suspension bushes are totally shot --- the new polyurethane and monoball parts should address those issues nicely ...

so that particular car may not have been the very best representative example of an early 911's potential.

okay - i've owned all four permutations...

4-cyl in a 911 (912)
914.6
914.4
911

the original 912 (not the 1976 912E version) was light, nimble, reasonably economical. engine gave freely of what it had - which wasn't all that much, actually...

914.4 -- fun little roadster. mine was a 1,7 so the engine gave freely of what it had and the light weight and slippery aerodynamics made a bigger difference than you'd think from a such a small increase over the 912's 1,6 -- but the T-IV incorporated many things they learned from the early upright engines (not, however, how to make exhaust ports flow...) if you like a nimble, well-balanced, versatile and fun car, it's hard to go wrong with any 914.4. if you *really* feel you need more power, it puts you into an interesting price/performance tradeoff analysis pretty quickly...

914.6 -- IMO -- the ultimate car. the perfect combination of weasel and Godzilla, especially with the displacement bumped up a bit from its original level that was set to 1) use up the leftover 2,0 911 engines and 2) not make the 911 look bad. (lots more profit in the 911, a theme which continues to this day ...)

911 - well - that doesn't narrow it down much, because the very first 2,0-liter short wheel base 911's are nothing like what they call a 911 now, and there have been 40 years of changes, developments, modifications, and paradigm shifts through four decades... "early" 911's - those contemporaneous with 914 production - were still sports cars, through and through. AC on cars under 3,0 liters (which started in the US officially in 1976 with the Turbo) was still a novelty although they tried desperately to make it work on the 2,7's - often with disastrous results for a variety of reasons. with the SC the transition from 'sports car' to 'GT' (Grand Touring) was definitely underway. the cars got heavier, "more refined" (which meant that they did fewer things really well in order to do fewer things really badly). the Targa models have much in common with 914's -- both good and bad.

the 911 is more widely, generally, accepted, like it or not. the 914 will always be a niche, 'enthusiast's' car.

i'm driving my 911 now and it puts a smile on my face. i think once i'm through the suspension and have replaced all the worn-out stuff it'll be good to go for many, many years to come (especially if i can bump up the engine next winter ...). At some point it may make sense to sell this one -- possibly to raise cash for a house deal, possibly to raise cash to concentrate on the 914.6, possibly because we'll want to concentrate more effort on real racing and it will be time to buy a prepped car. this is a fun car and i like it a lot but i'm not attached to it.

the 914.6 - on the other hand - like my '53 1500N Coupe - i will keep forever...

what was your question?

oh - should you take advantage of the opportunity to get into a 'good price' 911... need to know more about it. the car i'm in now had many 'issues' but they're no more than what i was expecting or able to deal with. ALL older cars have issues! it can be astonishingly, frustratingly expensive to take them to a specialist with a blank check and say "make it right." if you can do the work yourself, are willing to do the research and legwork to learn who's got what parts and who are the "go-to" vendors, if you can prioritise the work projects so you can do what has to be done when it needs it and defer the "nice-to's" and avoid DWD - a 911 can be tremendously enjoyable.

i think every Porsche owner wants to - and should - have a 911 at least for a while. but they're not for everyone, and there's a lot of other perfectly fine choices for those who discover it's not to their taste; to each his own.

do your homework - read a copy of Frere's "the 911 Story" - the latest edition if you're looking at a car newer than 1976. check out the technical forums, go lurk or RennList's 911 list for a while.

because 911's are so versatile - you MUST ask and answer this question: what do you want to do with the car? is it a driver? a DE car? a TT car? an AX car? a concours car? a Club Race car? getting into a car like this without knowing what you want out, and/or trying and expecting it to do too many things well, will be a very expensive and frustratring experience. my 911 experience is going quite nicely because i had such a "use image" in mind when i bought it, and i am sticking to it. the fact that i'm putting more commuting miles on it than was the original plan has affected the order in which i do certain things, but The Plan has not changed...

have a Plan.

[Red-Beard]

Quote from Mom Yesterday.

"Well, you got that Yellow car running finally. When are you selling it?"

Uhhhh. Never. Well, never say never...Maybe if The right 914GT or a 916 came a long...

Nahhhh. This is a driver! No concours BS here. Maybe "Los Panchos" will take the sow's ear and turn it into something that looks like a silk purse.

I have a 82 911SC and the 914/6. The SCs are light compared to the later model cars, but are still pretty heavy. The 911 looks pretty, they are the ones the girls want to get driven in (Take that any way you like), it has A/C and power windows and sunroof, nice cushy seats, cruise control, etc. It's my comfy highway cruiser which can also be used on the twisty curvy roads.

My 914/6, even without the sway bay in the front, kicks the SCs butt in the twisty curvey, put a smiley on my facey, scare my wifey make her pray'ey thing that the 911 will never do. And I do love being able to remove the top.

And that sound...oh the 914/6 with the triple throat carbs..ummmmm. Nothing like it.

And conversly, the 914/6, a factory original one, is worth more than any 911, up to about 1989. PCA just valued my 82SC at $19.6K where the 914/6 was valued at $25K.

[Joe Bob]

I have tracked a stock 2.0/4, a 3.0/6 and an early 911 3.0 and 3.6.......personally I have come close to killing myself in the 911. The 911 can be evil.....the 914 is more predictable in sliding thru the turns.....at least to me.....

I am an "OK" driver......the 914 is more forgiving.

Manfred will be a 2.0/6 with an "S" 180 hp motor......not a slouch but enough to be challenging. I leave the heavy high horsepower rides to the younger more talented drivers.

For the street....nutin' beats the 3.6 powered early 911.....but I will still fire up the 914 for the canyons..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

[Rusty]

well ... i have that very '71E now, and let me tell you, the more i get into it, the more i know why you didn't like it :-) ... the shell's fundamentally sound (sailed through its recent PA inspection) but all the 'stuff' was worn out from years of neglect and deferred maintenance that i know predated your brief ownership of this car. and since it's an 'E' it doesn't have antiroll bars which really hold it back.

Ouch... I wasn't trying to slam (y)our car. I know that you've done lots to it, and someday I hope to see it again. I hope that you don't regret buying it from me - I wouldn't want to screw someone over.

I was speaking about 911s in general. I've driven a few, including Mike Zs beautiful car. I guess I expected a huge *WOW*... and it just wasn't there for me.

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

My 911 SC (1979) and 914 (1973) were similarly prepped (lowered, bigger bars, stiffer shocks, bigger a/r bars, wider tires, etc).

When one had to go, it was the 911. Part of that was $$ -- as the 911 was worth $18K vs who knows what for a nicely modified but not original 1973 914 -- but the other part was that the SC didn't handle as well on back roads, felt a bit "pregnant" in turns, and wasn't really any more comfortable once up to speed on the freeway. But man did it get up to speed faster.

Still, I just enjoy driving the 914 more. On the right day, on the right road, it's just about unbeatable, mixing 356 nostalgia with modern handling capabilities. I've found myself in Boxsters or 996s following my 914 down the coast, wishing I could switch several times.

I suppose you can make anything handle if you try hard enough (once drove a track-prepped SC at S-Car-Go -- and this is not an endorsement -- that made my SC feel like a Vanagon) -- but I think the mid-engined 914 simply beats the 911 in this department. Until you get to the 993 Carrera RS (Euro), which handles A LOT like a 914, stock 911s fall behind the 914's handling curve.

Looks, interior space, and comfort features are another matter, however, but they're also pretty subjective. As mentioned above, what will you use the car more often for? A 911 represents one of the great cars of all time -- as does the 914. And they really do complement one another well. If you have the space and cash and patience, a 911 AND a 914 sounds great to me.

My long-winded two cents, for what it's worth,

pete

[aircooledboy]

What great freaking thread!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Clients in the waiting can sit. This is awesome stuff, and this is why this BBS kicks wild booty. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rocking nana.gif)

[scrz914]

Thanks, your replies have helped solidify my decision on what to do.
The 911 I want to buy is an 79sc and has been kept in great condition. It has the upgrades and has recently had a new clutch and starter installed. I can buy it for 10k. It does have 192K but I understand that a well maintained 911 can go to 250k or 300k without rebuild (god I hope so).
I took it down to Carmel Valley and was impressed with what it could do (mild panic attack when I saw how fast I was taking the turns) but as a lot of you said, it feels "large". I don't have the confidence to push it like I do the 914. After I dropped off the 911 and drove my 914 home I knew immediately that I like to drive the 914 more, even with no rear shocks and minimal rear brake action. Thus the dilemma began.
With your feedback tho' I decided to go for both. They are different birds, ones not a better version of the other. I'll stiffen up the suspension on the 914 (AX?) and fun. Drive the kids to school in the 911 (they refuse to get in the 914) and use it as a daily driver.
Here's hoping I can drive the 914 up to the WCC (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[TimB]

SCRZ914,
I guess it all depends what you are looking for. I thought I was set when I had my 2000 V8 Audi and an 82 911, but now I have a GMC Canyon quad cab and a 914. They are just different.

I bought the 911 for $16k, dropped about $10k into it with suspension mods, engine stuff, and plain old maintenance. Sold it a few weeks ago for $12.5k which I know was a steal. (to the guy in San Diego who said PCA valued his 82 SC at $19.6k, I'd go find that entity and ask them to buy your car!)

For me the Porshe was/is a car just for fun. It's been mentioned that the 911's differ a lot based on the year, which very true. *** If you're going to consider a 911, you should drive the various models to see which one you want. Otherwise you may have the, "Damn I wish I had a _____ 911" syndrome, which is costly to cure.*** Try not to fall for the hype you hear.

While the SC with the 3.0 is on of the top air-cooled motors (a popular transplant into "early" cars), to me it never felt like a "new" car or an "old" car. It just wasn't as "fun", "classic", or "sporty" to drive as the 914, as others have described. But it was probably more reliable on a daily basis (???) than a 914, and certainly more comfortable to drive, and it had a LOT more power. And of course REAL men drive 911's...


I bought my 914 for less than 1/2 what I sold the 911 for. I imagine I will throw another $3-$6k into over the next few years. It's a bargain! And you see a lot less nice 914s around here than you do nice 911s. Another big thing for me is that the 914s DO NOT get the "respect" of a 911. I'm not driving for status - otherwise I'd still have my Audi as a daily driver. To me the 914 also has a much more unique look.

I could ramble forever, but I will stop.

FWIW,
Tim

Edit: Just read my post and it sounded a bit negativewards 911's and their owners. to. Let me say that I LOVE the 911. And the guys on the Pelican 911 site are awesome. Get on that to research 911's, but be mindful of the opinionated answers as with any other BBS.
If you can only own one 911 it's so hard to decide though. I'd probably go with a 993 cab or '97 993 Targa, or the other extreme of a 73. for me it has to be topless, which is nice because they tend to cost less than coupes. If $ were not an issue I might consider (blasphemous to many 911 owners) a 2000+ 996 cab, or 2004 996 Turbo cab.
You can buy a lot o 914's for the coin of any of these cars!

[Red-Beard]

Yeah. Pca is high, but these are for insurance, not sale. My point was the 914/6 is higher valued...

Prices should be comming up... It's summer.

James

[ArtechnikA]

Ouch... I wasn't trying to slam (y)our car. ... I hope to see it again. I hope that you don't regret buying it from me

no, i didn't take it that way at all, and i didn't want to create any impression that you were responsible for the car's condition, and i don't think you took it that way, so i think we're cool.

you inherited a car with a bunch of PO issues, and i believe you disclosed all the ones you knew about. there were other things going on in there that i don't believe you'd yet encountered but it's all pretty much stuff that's completely typical for the age of the car and the scope and extent were pretty much exactly what i expected. (you never know *exactly* what you're going to find but as long as it's a manageable list and not safety-compromising, you just ante up and play the hand you're dealt.

i don't regret it for a moment.

i'd have had to put as much work into the GTI to make it PA-inspection-worthy and still had a clapped-out GTI at the end of the process. and there's NO WAY i could have got the 914.6 running in the same amount of time for the same money.

some people like the 911 experience, and some don't. i think this is why the 914.6 is the ultimate car, but if someone doesn't like a 911, or blue, or cinnamon, it's just a preference and i'm not going to take it personally :-) ...

you can drive the car any time you want ...

[TimB]

With your feedback tho' I decided to go for both.

SWEET! I would have so many cars if the wife would approve - and if we had more than a one-car garage! 3 cars for one family is enough as it is.
But, OT I know, I do long for a Sunbeam Tiger. I have a couple of Alpines, one orig and one V6 transplant, but they didn't come close to a Tiger. Of course a V6 or V8 914 seems like a fun addition...
I should really get to this meeting I'm supposed to host...


CONGRATS!