OT/Has someone ever applied for a patent? Options

[computers4kids]

I have this widget that I've built 30 of so far that I believe has true marketing potential. Sorry, it won't bolt on a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) The idea is novel, unique and inexpensive to make, but has a worldwide audience. Anyway, I was toying with the idea of mass producing several thousand for a first run but if this takes off like I think it might--some big company is going to replicate it.



The patent process?
Any idea how difficult it is to get one....costs? From what I've read you can do it yourself or hire a patent attorney.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks, Mark

[r_towle]

pm sent

[Jake Raby]

I just finished one and have started on another... You can do the majority of it yourself; the only thing I paid for was the patent search to ensure there were no infringements.

[rock914]

Patents are a slippery slope......Hiring a patent attorney firm is quite easy. Paying for the process can be quite expensive. I received one about 15 years ago, the product was fairly complicated so quite a few drawings were required. the total was $10,000 +. Also there are fees that need to be paid along the way to keep the patent from expiring. Keep in mind that after you are granted a patent it only gives the the ability to go after companies or people that infringe on your product. Many years ago I spoke with Ned Steinberger, quite possibly the most innovative guitar designer in the past 50 years. He told me that he could have easily bankrupted the company just paying lawyers to fight infringement. It also gets VERY tricky with foreign patents and protection. He said that the best plan is to get into the market fast and establish yourself as the leader in the product that you bring to market. If it is really good plan on duplication. Good luck with your new product and best of success, It is a very exciting process!!!

[r_towle]

Patents are a slippery slope......Hiring a patent attorney firm is quite easy. Paying for the process can be quite expensive. I received one about 15 years ago, the product was fairly complicated so quite a few drawings were required. the total was $10,000 +. Also there are fees that need to be paid along the way to keep the patent from expiring. Keep in mind that after you are granted a patent it only gives the the ability to go after companies or people that infringe on your product. Many years ago I spoke with Ned Steinberger, quite possibly the most innovative guitar designer in the past 50 years. He told me that he could have easily bankrupted the company just paying lawyers to fight infringement. It also gets VERY tricky with foreign patents and protection. He said that the best plan is to get into the market fast and establish yourself as the leader in the product that you bring to market. If it is really good plan on duplication. Good luck with your new product and best of success, It is a very exciting process!!!

I could not agree more.
Plan to have your product copied.
Spend your money and effort to capture the market early...
Most products have a limited market appeal and limited lifespan.
It will get copied, but if you have already taken the top portion of the market...the most profitable portion, use your new profit to innovate a new product instead of fighting over another product via patent law suits.
Its really basic business logic.
Any consumable product or anything easy to copy will get copied.
Do a better job of marketing and a better job of innovating and you will always stay in the lead.
Sit back on your laurels and try ti live off one single patent will make you pay attorneys all of your profits, and in the end its just to prove a point..that you were first.

Total potential market size is a large factor in your decision.
If the market is 1 billion of more...its worth the effort. The ROI is there for a patent, and for enforcement.
If the market is 1Mm or 4Mm it may not be worth the efforts to pursue a patent and instead just focus your energy to capture the market.
A provisional patent will give you that 12 month lead with little to no cost in a deep patent search (which you need to pay for with either your time, or a specialists time)
Then its just a standard battle for customers after that.


Rich

[Dr Evil]

KWales here worked with such things. I am sure he will chime in, but you can contact him as well. He worked with medical stuff as an engineer and has patent experience.

[DBCooper]

I have several. You say you've built 30? Over what amount of time? If it's been in commerce for more than a year it's already no longer patentable. PM me if you haven't already gotten the info you need.

[stugray]

"If it's been in commerce for more than a year it's already no longer patentable."

That's funny. I was arguing with someone about that very topic when all the news came out about Apple suing Samsung for infringing on the patent for the iPad.

I said "Apple cant patent the iPad, Stanley Kubrick invented the tablet computer when he filmed 2001 a space odyssey"

So the tablet computer has been in the public domain for over 40 years.
Apple gets away with it by patenting obscure software tidbits.

Stu

[Chris Pincetich]

Be sure to stay VERY FAR AWAY from anyone offering "patent services" that market your invention etc. I own 25% of a patent for providing design and logistics support, and the lead designer insisted in enrolling in one of those scams. Lots of scams out there. Good advice above: make it, be the best, expect to get copied regardless of patent.

CAN pending patents be searched now?

One loop-hole in your favor: last I heard (several years ago!!) patents pending could not be searched, and adding "patent pending" to your marketing was free. There is no reason not to broadcast a "patent pending" label as you launch.

Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[DBCooper]

That's excellent advice, those guys are the patent equivalent of ambulance chasers.

Yes, you can now search even the applications! Google Patent is the best, http://www.google.com/patents . I probably shouldn't say "best", it's just my favorite. Doesn't replace a patent search but it can sort things out for you before you hire the search.

Be careful saying it's "patent pending" if it isn't. That's a legal statement saying you've applied, the patent application has been accepted, examined, and approved. Unless all that's true you're better saying "patent applied for" which accomplishes all you probably want in waving people off without the legal ramifications.

[dlkawashima]

I said "Apple cant patent the iPad, Stanley Kubrick invented the tablet computer when he filmed 2001 a space odyssey"

Yes, the "tablet scene" got a lot of exposure after Samsung pointed to it as evidence that the computer tablet was "invented" long before Apple ever thought of it. But frankly, it's a silly argument. There's no evidence that the tablet in the movie is even a computer ..... it could simply be a flat screen TV. A close-up look of the device reveals that it has 10 buttons across the bottom of it, which could very easily be interpreted as buttons for changing channels. And frankly, it was just a mock device, a prop used for the movie, so one could call it anything because in fact it was really nothing at all.

[computers4kids]

I have several. You say you've built 30? Over what amount of time? If it's been in commerce for more than a year it's already no longer patentable. PM me if you haven't already gotten the info you need.

The 30 I've built was over the Summer and never marketed them.

Thank you everyone for some very sound and realistic advice. I believe I will go ahead and get the "provisional patent" which will be inexpensive in this situation and buy me some time.

I have no doubt if I go to market with this widget, it will be replicated regardless overseas--that's just the reality of our world today.

I'm not too crazy about the fact that you can now search the applications for patents. The big problem with what I'm contemplating producing is the widget is extremly easy to replicate (so secret formula or process) once you see it.

Thanks again,
Mark

[Joe Owensby]

Most of the advise offered is very good. Probably the main reason to try for a patent is if you plan to sell your idea to a big company. In that case, a provisional patent application will enable you to discuss it openly with anyone and not worry about them stealing your concept. The provisional application gives you a little time to market the idea and is not as expensive as a final patent application. You still have to do the prior art and pay attorney fees, etc. though. The changes that were made to the patent laws just made a few weeks ago give the priority to the first one to file for a patent, not the person who makes the invention. I think it will make it easier for a big company with a staff of lawyers to beat others to filing for good ideas.

You should try searching using the recommended Google patent site. It is pretty easy to use. Be very honest with yourself and look very, very hard. I quite often deal with people who bring ideas into our company which are new to them, but are not new to the world. One of our patent attorneys says that if "You think of something new, you have made an invention. However at the same time it may not necessarily be novel, meaning the concept exists somewhere else in the world (ie. someone has already invented it )." The Google site is just a preliminary check, as it doesn't check for prior art in the rest of the world including Europe and Japan. The Japanese try to patent everything they see. Now the Chinese are doing the same. While this may not seem important to you if you don't plan to sell in their markete, their patents or patent applications may exist before yours does. This can and will be used by others in working around your patent.

In a competitive economic environment you should expect that your competitors will try to out do anything you come up with. Most patents can be worked around unless they are very well written. Legal battles can cost tons of money.

But, if you have that really great idea for a large market and do some reasonable up front work to make sure it is in fact new, go for it. Good luck. JoeO