Want to install Air-Fuel Gauge Options

[michael7810]

I have to get larger chokes and re-jet my 1911cc/dual IDF40s and was thinking of installing a wideband air-fuel gauge to help with tuning. I've looked at a few digital gauges for around $200 that include the gauge, O2 sensor, bung, wiring, etc. Wondering if you guys have any sourcing recommendations and install tips. It looks simple from what I've read. Thanks for any help you can provide.

[mrbubblehead]

this is the one i would get. http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/I...s/?autoview=SKU its the only digital one on the market i believe. mine is the older innovate gauge. its analog, but still works great. haveing a wideband is an invaluable tool for tuning.

[0396]

I bought mine via Richard Clewett.com... great price and support

[914Mels]

Try the innovate MTX. Just be sure and buy the one with the ten foot cable. The motor sports version has a cable only 3 feet long. I've had mine installed for s few months and it is very easy to tune with.

[michael7810]

Thanks for the input. Looks like the Innovate is the one to buy...just have not decided on a permanently installed gauge or a hand-held meter for tuning. Is there a benefit to having a AF gauge for every day driving or just when tuning (other than the cool factor which I would enjoy)?

[Bartlett 914]

Thanks for the input. Looks like the Innovate is the one to buy...just have not decided on a permanently installed gauge or a hand-held meter for tuning. Is there a benefit to having a AF gauge for every day driving or just when tuning (other than the cool factor which I would enjoy)?

I installed the inovate sensor. It was very helpful. After awhile it is just another distraction. The manual stated that it needs to be powered up. If you use it and decide to remove it, you will want to remove the sensor and install a plug in it's place.

[mrbubblehead]

i have both. the lm-2 and the permanently installed gauge. i started off the lm-2 (hand held). thats what i initially used to tune my car. so it was just temped in. cord thru the window. so when i pulled it off to use on my bikes i had nothing in my car. thats when i decided to install a permanent one. two reasons..... 1. when i make any type of changes to the engine i have instant results to see if it affected my a/f ratio. and 2. i like to monitor the a/f. i like to be able to glance at the gauge when im pulling the monster grades on the freeway. it would suck to be running lean at WOT and not know it. data is everything.......to me anyways....

[michael7810]

I installed the Innovate LMX gauge mounted using the Rennmetal ash tray replacement. Now the tuning fun begins. Does anyone know of a site or post that I can read to get a better understanding of how to proceed? I'll post the AF numbers from my drive home later today to give you an idea of where I'm starting from.

[mrbubblehead]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...asc&start=0

[TC 914-8]

i have both. the lm-2 and the permanently installed gauge. i started off the lm-2 (hand held). thats what i initially used to tune my car. so it was just temped in. cord thru the window. so when i pulled it off to use on my bikes i had nothing in my car. thats when i decided to install a permanent one. two reasons..... 1. when i make any type of changes to the engine i have instant results to see if it affected my a/f ratio. and 2. i like to monitor the a/f. i like to be able to glance at the gauge when im pulling the monster grades on the freeway. it would suck to be running lean at WOT and not know it. data is everything.......to me anyways....

I have always felt the same too lean is something not to guess at.

Not to hijack but what about dual exhaust with out a crossover ? I have seen setups with 2 sensors has anyone used them?

[mrbubblehead]

I installed the Innovate LMX gauge mounted using the Rennmetal ash tray replacement. Now the tuning fun begins. Does anyone know of a site or post that I can read to get a better understanding of how to proceed? I'll post the AF numbers from my drive home later today to give you an idea of where I'm starting from.

cool....try to give us all the info you can. jetting sizes,emulsion tubes, venturi sizes, distributor, etc.

[ChrisFoley]

this is the one i would get. http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/I...s/?autoview=SKU its the only digital one on the market i believe. mine is the older innovate gauge. its analog, but still works great. haveing a wideband is an invaluable tool for tuning.

A little late to the party but the digital wideband gauge I sell is not made by Innovate.
After my experience with the Innovate LM-2 I avoid anything made by them.

[Series9]

A little late to the party but the digital wideband gauge I sell is not made by Innovate.
After my experience with the Innovate LM-2 I avoid anything made by them.

Chris, could you expand on this?





As for me, I have some recent experience with PLX Devices modules and was happy with the results.

[ChrisFoley]

Chris, could you expand on this?

I bought the LM-2 because we needed a wideband setup which could be installed in a car with no O2 fitting in the exhaust. The popular LM-1 had been recently discontinued and the LM-2 was being promoted as the replacement. Ok, for the increased price we got two sensors and a nice data logger with rpm recording.
The rpm feature was just about totally useless - it didn't work with most ignitions - and Innovate's first answer was to tell everyone to purchase another one of their devices which could read a raw signal from a coil and turn the signal into something the LM-2 could understand. In spite of numerous complaints on their technical forums, their next best answer was a vaguely outlined signal conditioning device one could make from pieces purchased at Radio Shack. (the circuit included a 0-10,000 ohm, 10 turn pot.)
We built the signal conditioner and tested the LM-2 on a variety of 914s with various ignitions. We tried numerous times to apply their (Innovate techies) "expertise" so we could drive a car and record O2 and rpm for tuning purposes. I think we were able to obtain useful rpm data from one of the systems we tested on. I sure as hell wasn't going to spend another $200 on one of their other devices after spending $500 on something marketed as a complete product, which didn't work as promised.
At one point we flashed the LM-2 with updated firmware which was touted as their final solution to the problem - but that didn't work either.

There was another problem too. The clamp which held the O2 sensor in the tailpipe wasn't very secure and once it came out while we were driving & monitoring AFR. The sensor and clamp dragged on the ground, the cable caught a wheel, and the assembly swung up and dented the customer's fender.
Innovate can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

[Series9]

Chris, could you expand on this?

I bought the LM-2 because we needed a wideband setup which could be installed in a car with no O2 fitting in the exhaust. The popular LM-1 had been recently discontinued and the LM-2 was being promoted as the replacement. Ok, for the increased price we got two sensors and a nice data logger with rpm recording.
The rpm feature was just about totally useless - it didn't work with most ignitions - and Innovate's first answer was to tell everyone to purchase another one of their devices which could read a raw signal from a coil and turn the signal into something the LM-2 could understand. In spite of numerous complaints on their technical forums, their next best answer was a vaguely outlined signal conditioning device one could make from pieces purchased at Radio Shack. (the circuit included a 0-10,000 ohm, 10 turn pot.)
We built the signal conditioner and tested the LM-2 on a variety of 914s with various ignitions. We tried numerous times to apply their (Innovate techies) "expertise" so we could drive a car and record O2 and rpm for tuning purposes. I think we were able to obtain useful rpm data from one of the systems we tested on. I sure as hell wasn't going to spend another $200 on one of their other devices after spending $500 on something marketed as a complete product, which didn't work as promised.
At one point we flashed the LM-2 with updated firmware which was touted as their final solution to the problem - but that didn't work either.

There was another problem too. The clamp which held the O2 sensor in the tailpipe wasn't very secure and once it came out while we were driving & monitoring AFR. The sensor and clamp dragged on the ground, the cable caught a wheel, and the assembly swung up and dented the customer's fender.
Innovate can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you, sir.

[aharder]

Chris, could you expand on this?

I bought the LM-2 because we needed a wideband setup which could be installed in a car with no O2 fitting in the exhaust. The popular LM-1 had been recently discontinued and the LM-2 was being promoted as the replacement. Ok, for the increased price we got two sensors and a nice data logger with rpm recording.
The rpm feature was just about totally useless - it didn't work with most ignitions - and Innovate's first answer was to tell everyone to purchase another one of their devices which could read a raw signal from a coil and turn the signal into something the LM-2 could understand. In spite of numerous complaints on their technical forums, their next best answer was a vaguely outlined signal conditioning device one could make from pieces purchased at Radio Shack. (the circuit included a 0-10,000 ohm, 10 turn pot.)
We built the signal conditioner and tested the LM-2 on a variety of 914s with various ignitions. We tried numerous times to apply their (Innovate techies) "expertise" so we could drive a car and record O2 and rpm for tuning purposes. I think we were able to obtain useful rpm data from one of the systems we tested on. I sure as hell wasn't going to spend another $200 on one of their other devices after spending $500 on something marketed as a complete product, which didn't work as promised.
At one point we flashed the LM-2 with updated firmware which was touted as their final solution to the problem - but that didn't work either.

There was another problem too. The clamp which held the O2 sensor in the tailpipe wasn't very secure and once it came out while we were driving & monitoring AFR. The sensor and clamp dragged on the ground, the cable caught a wheel, and the assembly swung up and dented the customer's fender.
Innovate can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Thank you sir

[Ductech]

Hey racer chris... sounds like innovate sold you on a plug and pray setup ... sucks. all my experience with innovate products has been so so.

I have an lc-1 and have used lm-1's at the ducati shop on the dyno.

My 2 cents is that those tail sniffers are junk.. They always fall out and screw shit up. If customer's or even buddies are wanting to finer tune these cars you should line up some welding and put bungs in place. this will help you better tune also as the mixture reading will be closer to the head and not mixed together with some excess air at the tail pipe.

Also that signal conditioner circuit idea should work but the circuit most likely wasn't designed well enough. I bet one of the vr sensor conditioners circuits on my megasquirt 2 could give a good solid pulse signal to the lm-2

[michael7810]

Here's what I have:
1911 cc with 8.6:1 compression
Webcam #86 with Bursch exhaust
ACN SVDA with vacuum connected below throttle plates. Timing set at 27 BTDC at 3500 rpm (vacuum disconnected)
IDF40s with 32mm chokes, 135M, F11, 210A, 50I
AF at idle is 12.5.
When I accelerate easy in 1st gear it goes way lean...like 16-19+ and hesitates. Pretty much does the same in all gears, at steady state and 2500 rpm AF is 13.5 but giving a little throttle the AF jumps up to 16+ and it hesitates. Same at 3500 rpm. At 4500 rpm steady state the AF is 15.5. I will drive it more over the next couple days and take better notes. Sorry for not having better data but I had to rush home to meet a realtor...3 hours later my head hurts and I'm trying to remember AF data (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) .

[mrbubblehead]

Here's what I have:
1911 cc with 8.6:1 compression
Webcam #86 with Bursch exhaust
ACN SVDA with vacuum connected below throttle plates. Timing set at 27 BTDC at 3500 rpm (vacuum disconnected)
IDF40s with 32mm chokes, 135M, F11, 210A, 50I
AF at idle is 12.5.
When I accelerate easy in 1st gear it goes way lean...like 16-19+ and hesitates. Pretty much does the same in all gears, at steady state and 2500 rpm AF is 13.5 but giving a little throttle the AF jumps up to 16+ and it hesitates. Same at 3500 rpm. At 4500 rpm steady state the AF is 15.5. I will drive it more over the next couple days and take better notes. Sorry for not having better data but I had to rush home to meet a realtor...3 hours later my head hurts and I'm trying to remember AF data (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) .

sounds like your idles are real close. and your mains are too lean. you should install the biggest mains you have, so you know when they tip in. it will be obvious. when you go thru your progressive circuit, it will get leaner and leaner till your mains come in then it will swing way rich. since your idles are so close, i have 50's in my 1.8 also. you need to work on your air corrector jets. i like to call these timing jets. your hesitation is caused by too small of an air corrector. the air corrector jet determines when your mains tip in. bigger air jet brings the mains on sooner. smaller airs bring them in later. that is the reason to start with huge mains. so you can see exactly when they come in. then you gradually go bigger on your airs untill the hesitation is gone. then jet your mains. then your done. you want your WOT a/f to be 12.5 - 13.2

[michael7810]

I'll get new mains tomorrow because the 135s installed are the biggest I have. Do you think 145s are big enough? Regarding the air corrector jets, I have 210s installed and the biggest I see listed is 220. Is there anything besides larger air corrector jets that will bring the mains in sooner?