sump screen, is this on drilled out Options

[machina]

took out my screen, which was very clean btw,

has this one had the center drilled out or is this the way they come?

[machina]

and this is how the screen that came with the scat deep sump looks.

should I drill out the center like the other one?

[Aaron Cox]

how does the deep some attach? how do you keep from bottoming out?

[machina]

how does the deep some attach? how do you keep from bottoming out?

there are 2 large bolts and a plate that goes inside the case. Not an elegant solution but it seems to work. Jake has one on his track 914.

This is really the only choice short of going to a dry sump. I hope it works.

It really only hangs about .5" lower than the iron cross bar. I'll take a picture when I install it tommorrow.

[Jake Raby]

Dave,
If you look at the way the stock screen attaches the center bolt protrudes THROUGH the stock TIV sump screen and thats why the hole is there..

The sump screen that the scat sump uses is from a TYPE I...

It needs some modifications that will help it to flow better. Please call me on my cell phone and I will walk you through it. I only have limited access to the net from where I'm at and will have no more till Tueday when I return.

You have my number, utilize it as I would rather receiove a phone call as to see you get the wrong information.

FYI- he is running the Scat Sump per my recommendations. Ivhave been doing alot with these sumps in wet sump 914s and they have alot of potential, especially when i start cutting and welding them into weird shapes to increase oil control in hard turns.The sumps don't sit very much lower than the engine mount bar and in Mark's F prod car, My car, or many other 914s we have never had an issue with them dragging the ground..

The Sump attaches with a steel bar that slides into the case and has two through bolts. This design was refined by Scat a few months ago due to my modifications that worked so well for mounting them.

Dave, call me! I'm outta here again now....... Back to having fun!!!

also, the

[machina]

Well I removed the first conical area around the screen opening. The pickup drops right in now but I still don't like the "resevoir like" area around the pickup tube. It only has 3 small openings to allow the oil in.

Maybe I'll cut that out as well.

[Mark Henry]

I've run Type 1's for years with no screen in the deep sump (full flow filter), why do you need one in a T 4?

I hose clamp a big cow magnet to the pick-up.

[URY914]

a big cow magnet

You're filter won't pick up cows?
You got BIG problems, dude.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Naaaw....the cow get stuck in the pump....makes a hell of a mess.
That's why you need the magnet....to catch them before they get sucked up.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[URY914]

Oh, OK.

[machina]

I've run Type 1's for years with no screen in the deep sump (full flow filter), why do you need one in a T 4?

Until a few months ago I didn't know what a sump screen was. Jake says run it, Mark says don't need it....

Maybe I'll ask my wife (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Mark Henry]

I know why Jake likes the screen, in case of a major failure it will catch the metal before it goes through the pump.

The cow magnet will only grab the steel bits.

On the stock oil system getting rid of the screen may be unwise, but on a full flow system like yours I don't really see the need for it.

[Mark Henry]

In case some of you don't know what a cow magnet is, it's a 1/2"X 4" pill shaped magnet, that they give to cows to get metal (barb wire bits, etc) out of their stomachs.

I often put some type of magnet in the engines I build. Cow magnets have a heavy duty coating that will not come off and they will not break.

You can get them at a farm supply store.

[Jake Raby]

I have seen many engines die from a small piece of piston skirt chipping off and travelling through the pick up and into the pump.

One would think that the pump would just send it on through, but it doesn't because the gears are not splined, or keyed. They simply have an interferance fit that allows the drive shaft to sppin inside the upper gear. This creates a situation that renders the gears sitting still and instantly kills oil pressure and the #2 rod bearing smokes as quick as lightning. ( I have even seen a piece of a incorrectly installed windage tray gasket find it's way into an oil pump and kill an engine)

I have been there and done that on 3 engines in my life and have seen this sump screen pick up many bits of foreign object debris that could have killed dozens more engines.

Full flow only helps things AFTER the filter, not all the things before the filter, like the pump. I have found some older FEBI made TI pumps that have keyed gears and they would help, but then I have seen the instance try to shear the weakest link and thats the tang that drives the upper shaft.

Long story short, you need a bit of insurance against non ferrous materials that a magnet won't pickup. I have seen a cow magnet actually magnetize a crankshaft from rotating past it for so long. This caused a failure simply from debris collecting along the outside of the rod journal limiting the oil that could be thrown from that journal. If oil can't escape, new oil cannot replenish the bearing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[dmenche914]

well, after Jakes phone call, please share the info on how to make the screen flow better, sounds interesting. jake has good info, so unless Jake want's you to not tell, please share the info.

one other good point about the screen. the flull flow filter usally has a bypass valve in it, when pressures are high, like with cold oil, it is bypassed. If you have no screen, you have nothing while the filter is in bypass mode. And as stated, the screen is the only protection before the pump.

By the way, Jake if you are out there. Any word when you VW fan house comparisions will be published? i recall you are publishing them in a British VW magazine. I'd like to know when it is coming out, so I can purchase a copy. I want to know what will be best fan shroud for my 2180cc type I

dave

[Jake Raby]

Dave,
The results and comprehensive stories will be published in Ultra VW magazine sometime in the next 6 months. I really have no idea exactly when because they have had the info for a while now. The first series will be specifically on the TIV engine, as I have not released the TI data to anyone yet and I may not simply because it cost me almost 20,000.00 to attain it all! It certainly won't be "given away"....and i don't know if any publication will buy it.

FYI- Most aftermarket oil filter mounts do NOT incorporate a bypass. A system that has a Bypass is NOT a true "Full Flow" system. The stock system has a bypass, and thats one reason why I do not fancy them very much.

The "Best" cooling system for your 2180 is none other than my own Type I DTM. I started selling them on October 15 and have them in stock. It took me almost 8 months to get the system to outperform the best system that we found in our testing back In January.

Here is the link for you http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/type1/dtm/index.htm

[dmenche914]

nice fan housing, On the bypass, don't some spin on filters have internal bypasses for those freezing cold morning starts ups? I was under the impression that many did to prevent damage to the cartride. I know one of my Fram (never again!!!) filters had a spring loaded cartridge in the can, that would under too high a pressure, retracts the spring, lowering the cartridge in the can, allowing oil to bypass. On my Fram, the assembly fell apart in use!!! I have seen this on TWO Frams. so Fram never again, cause the damn thing was bypassing the entire time!

I only use Mahle or Mann filters on my German fleet, but i cannot recall if they have the spring type thing in the bottom or not, and I do not have a spare in my garage to look right now.

Anyway, keep the screen, it is good for the motor, and you wallet, and stay away from Fram for you Barvarian Ride>