Gas in Oil, Lots of gas in the oil Options

[sbruzek]

I've been trying to get a 1973 2.0 L to run. Its still got the original FI. I've replaced a bunch of parts. New plugs, points, wires, cap, rotor, coil, FI seals, the fuel pump, fuel filter, rebuild the relay board, swapped out the in line fuel pressure regulator (today) tested and now have 28 psi of fuel, and replaced all the vacum lines. I've tested the manifold pressure sensor and it holds a vacum and the resistance across the connector test out OK.

Like before most this work she will start right up cold, but run very rough and blow smoke, it will not idle, and stall after 3-4 minutes and then not restart. Looking into the throttle body its loaded with gas. I got it to run today for 10 minutes or so and it dumped about a quart of gas into the oil. I know how much because I had to drain the oil aftre seeing an oil leak from a valve cover. Leaking oil was very thin and full of gas. Amount drained out was 1 qt higher than I put in. This also happened last time I tied to get her started, gas in oil. It started better this time with repalce FPR but still large amounts of gas in the oil. It happens each time I try to get the 2.0 running. All the work and replaced parts so far have not solved the issue, mainly gas in oil, and running way to rich/stalling. The excess gas has to be the cause of everthing I would think.

I've already pulled the injectors and the cold start valve to see if any where stuck open and none were. It would seem that the extra gas can only be coming from the injectors or the cold start. I continue to suspect the cold start based on all the gas up in the throttle body under the air cleaner. Could the gas be shooting way up there from one or all the injectors??? Could something be telling the injectors to add that much gas?? It like its getting way to much gas ALL the time. Now it will rev high right away when you get air into the throtle body. It also did that when the cold start was off and open to let extra air in.

Any ideas??

Could a bad heat temp sensor cause this much gas to get injected?? It tests out OK and it happens with or without it conncted. How about the CU or throttle switch??

Any help would be appreciated.

[ConeDodger]

Is your CHT unplugged? Obviously, you're running very rich. Compression test? If you have no compression you will not burn even an appropriate fuel load.

[sbruzek]

CHT is plugged in. I've not done a compression check. i'll do that next. I've had engines with poor compression but never experienced this huge gas in oil issue before.

[Black22]

My 1.8L did this when I first got it. One of my injectors was stuck in the full open position. Almost loaded the whole case up with fuel!

I could only tell the injector was stuck because I noticed it was the only one that I couldn't see the pintle on. It was hard to start and would bellow whit smoke out of the tailpipe.

Take a closer look at those injectors. I also have the fuel line bypassing my cold start injector, but I'm in Cali...

[914_teener]

CHT is plugged in. I've not done a compression check. i'll do that next. I've had engines with poor compression but never experienced this huge gas in oil issue before.

You did't say if you had checked the injectors for the proper flow rate.

[aircooledtechguy]

You've got a stuck injector(s). The motor will not even run with the CHT sender disconnected. I would first suspect the cold start injector, since you could see it under the throttle body. Here's a simple procedure to figure out which injector is leaking:

1. Pull all the injectors out of the runners (leaving them plumbed unto the fuel rails).
2. Put them into a can or jar so any leaking fuel will be caught.
3. Remove the electrical plugs from each injector.
4. Disconnect the main power wire from the positive side of the coil (to DE-energize the plugs).
5. Crank the engine with the key. This will energize the pump and prime the lines with pressure. Whichever injector has sprayed fuel is the offending part and should be either cleaned/tested or replaced.

Hope this helps. . . Good Luck!!

[bandjoey]

and change the oil twice to flush out that much gas...maybe a change at 100 miles?

[sbruzek]

thanks to who replied

[brant]

make sure you pull all 5 injectors to run that test.
I would suspect the cold start injector, or the thermocouple that signals the cold start injector....

I assume the signal is a ground, it could even be a damaged wire from the thermocouple that is grounding on the case sending the signal.

brant

[sbruzek]

make sure you pull all 5 injectors to run that test.
I would suspect the cold start injector, or the thermocouple that signals the cold start injector....

I assume the signal is a ground, it could even be a damaged wire from the thermocouple that is grounding on the case sending the signal.

brant

I pulled all 5 and cranked it for 10 sec with coil disconnected. The cold start did not squirt any fuel ever. ( Temp in my garage is 65 F or so) The injectors all squirted the same amount into small glass jars. I did this 4 times to be sure and each time the volume in all 4 glasses looked the same, I did notice that 2 of the injectors "leaked" just abit when the fuel pump first ran, when the ignition was first turned on, but before I cranked the engine. None leaked after cranking was done.

I don't mind spending the $$ to have all the injectors refurbished if that fixes the gas in oil/rich running problem. I have already run this test once before after cleaning up the injectors myself with starting fluid and compressed air and that didn't fix the issue. I got the same results again this time so it seems the injectors are working OK duirng the test but not when the car is running??? What else could be the issue??

Trigger points or CPU giving injectors bad info??? Any sugestions on who to send the injectors to for refurbishng/testing??

Thanks Steve

[brant]

what happens if you key the power on but don't crank the motor.
I'm just wondering if one of them dribbles or leaks from pressure?

I think I used witch doctor when I had my injectors cleaned and tested.


brant

[sbruzek]

what happens if you key the power on but don't crank the motor.
I'm just wondering if one of them dribbles or leaks from pressure?

I think I used witch doctor when I had my injectors cleaned and tested.


brant

2 of them leaked just abit as the pump pressured the line but not after the first second or so. I'll send them to Witchhunter to get cleaned and checked.

[McMark]

Getting them cleaned and checked it a great thing to do. But I don't expect it will solve your problem. Something in the FI is keeping the injectors open too long. The usual suspect is the CHT wire being disconnected (or the wire is broken). Visually inspect the wire and if it looks good, pull the connector off the ECU and check continuity on the wire to make sure it's actually making a connection.

[brant]

I would also do a vacuum test on the MPS

Mark is right... something in the FI
is adding too much fuel

[sbruzek]

Getting them cleaned and checked it a great thing to do. But I don't expect it will solve your problem. Something in the FI is keeping the injectors open too long. The usual suspect is the CHT wire being disconnected (or the wire is broken). Visually inspect the wire and if it looks good, pull the connector off the ECU and check continuity on the wire to make sure it's actually making a connection.

Thanx for the tip. I'll do that. It is connected and I have tested it but not all the way back to the ECU. Can the CHT be replaced without removing the intake pipes?? It's right under one of the pipes and I don't see how I could get it out without removing the pipes.

[sbruzek]

Getting them cleaned and checked it a great thing to do. But I don't expect it will solve your problem. Something in the FI is keeping the injectors open too long. The usual suspect is the CHT wire being disconnected (or the wire is broken). Visually inspect the wire and if it looks good, pull the connector off the ECU and check continuity on the wire to make sure it's actually making a connection.

Thanx for the tip. I'll do that. It is connected and I have tested it but not all the way back to the ECU. Can the CHT be replaced without removing the intake pipes?? It's right under one of the pipes and I don't see how I could get it out without removing the pipes.

MPS vacum is good and it tests out ok across the connections. I'll focus on the CHT for now and report what I find

[brant]

you can replace it without removing the runners...

buy a 3inch 3/8 drive extension from autozone. A cheap one should only be about $3. then grind off one of the corners on the socket side.

using a 13mm deep socket, you can slide it over the connector end and then insert your ground-off extension over the wire

when you take it out there is a copper washer on the end
you may loose it from removal. I've had luck putting it on with a touch of distributor grease or conductive grease when reinstalling.


once you have the CHT out, you can test it in ice water and measure the different amounts of resistance at different temperatures. The table on the brad anders site will show the different resisance for temp and part numbers.... (there are a couple of different CHT part numbers.)

[McMark]

It can be replaced with the intake in place. Get the deepest 13mm socket you can find, coil the wire up inside and use a 6" extension (I think).

I had an engine that had totally erratic stall out problems. Turned out the CHT was shorting out internally. Either replace the CHT and check the wire, or check the resistance as described on Brad Anders site.

[914_teener]

It can be replaced with the intake in place. Get the deepest 13mm socket you can find, coil the wire up inside and use a 6" extension (I think).

I had an engine that had totally erratic stall out problems. Turned out the CHT was shorting out internally. Either replace the CHT and check the wire, or check the resistance as described on Brad Anders site.

+1 with what Mark said.

Also you may want to check the harness at the ECU plug to make sure the harness is not shorted out.

[sbruzek]

It can be replaced with the intake in place. Get the deepest 13mm socket you can find, coil the wire up inside and use a 6" extension (I think).

I had an engine that had totally erratic stall out problems. Turned out the CHT was shorting out internally. Either replace the CHT and check the wire, or check the resistance as described on Brad Anders site.

Thanks everyone. I've come full circle. Back to the CHT. I'll get a new one and replace it. (along with the inline resistor that is attached to it, a faded red torpedo looking device) I assume that the deep socket with a 3" extention will fit in the opening under the intake, and over the CHT leaving enought extention sticking out and room to still attach a wratchet to the extention??