914 CV Joints, Any Intrest on Some New Ones Options

[914Sixer]

I have made several inquires about having new 914 CV joints made up. All the manufactures I contacted said it would take a run of 500 to get things rolling. There are no cost estimates at this point.

What is the price point you would like to see? $50-$100 per joint?

Since there are 4 per vehicle, how many would you be interested in buying?


Please know that these CV joints will be made in China. I am neutral on this because the companies are ISO 9000.

[SLITS]

ISO Blah Blah means nothing other than their paperwork is in order. They can (and still) make shitty parts unless you are willing to be there in their factory from beginning to end to assure QC.

[ThePaintedMan]

I think the things like Chris Foley's Type 1 CVs still give us some options without a mass reproduction effort. IMHO, it would be more worthwhile to get decent quality, lower cost synchros. I think I remember talking to Mark (Mikey914) about those, but I can't remember what his thoughts were.

[914Eric]

ISO Blah Blah means nothing other than their paperwork is in order. They can (and still) make shitty parts unless you are willing to be there in their factory from beginning to end to assure QC.

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I run an AS9100 certified manufacturing firm and I have to agree. It's nothing more than lots of red tape and paper pushing.

Although we are an all american company and make high quality parts...Not Chinese junk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

As long as they are GNK Loebros you could probably sell through 500 fairly quickly. The major parts suppliers are in need.

The Meyle and EMPI units hyper extend too far and will end up causing problems. We had a failure on McMark's car when we first started doing the CV's. Mark took the time to pull the cages and photograph the results. The first clue was how far the cage pressed out (with our fingers) on the cheaper units vs. the GNK Loebros. We looked at the holes in the cage and noticed they were cut differently.

In Marks case, I believe he was powering out of a parking lot apron on to a road and powering on the throttle. The angle caused the control arm to extend, causing the CV to extend (in this case hyper-extend). Pretty common use of the vehicle if you think about it. Real world story as to why paying a "little" more for a better part pays off. I felt awful about it because Mark missed RRC that year... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

We learned the hard way.

[914Sixer]

Sounds like we need to approach GNK about bring them back for a limited time.

[Tom_T]

Sounds like we need to approach GNK about bring them back for a limited time.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ... we need the OEM OE quality as originally made for & spec'd by Porsche for the CV's, not lesser quality - even if cheaper, cuz you'll be spending more on multiple replacements.

I'm not sure what Chris does with the Type I CVs to upgrade them to T4/914 Porsche specs, but my long time P-car mechanic won't use type 1 CVs in a 914, and doesn't like them in later/higher HP Bugs, Ghias & Buses either.

There were Chinese ISO9100 companies producint the acid-laced drywall, inferior steel, & supposedly "Stainless Steel", lead in painted products, etc. - so don't trust their QC without someone there 24/7 from your own company doing QC with full power to reject & shut down production.

[Eric_Shea]

I'm not sure what Chris does with the Type I CVs to upgrade them to T4/914 Porsche specs, but my long time P-car mechanic won't use type 1 CVs in a 914, and doesn't like them in later/higher HP Bugs, Ghias & Buses either.

They're the same CV... Just the outer casing is different for 4-bolts/2-pins vs. 6-bolts. Outer casing also differs with the gasket. So... Your P-car mechanic may not have used them but P did. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[draganc]

Why are you looking for a alternative if we already have a solution (Chris / Tangerine) within a good price in place?

I used his parts and they look and fit good.

D

[Eric_Shea]

Because they are modified T1 CV's. We've been doing that to GNK Loebro's for years. I stopped becasue I got tired of all of the questions about the fasteners, flipping the inner race and what to do with the boot flange... yada, yada, yada.

It would just be nice to have the real deal to bolt on. 4 holes, 2 pins, proper gasket area and the same diameter mounting surface for the boot flange.

1. Type1 CV's have to be flipped over so the gasket mating area will match the 914 stub axle and tranny flange.
2. Then you either have to forego the gasket and use a gasket compound or...
3. do what Chris did and machine a groove for the gasket onto that face. When you flip them like that, they now have a step on the other end that doesn't fit perfectly into the boot flange so you either...
4. fill that with RTV or I think Chris uses...
5. an o-ring to seal that area. Then you have to...
6. use 2 of the 6 bolt hols for pins. Those need to be...
7. machined out to the size of the pins. Then...
8. the inner race needs to be flipped.

Do all that and they're fine. You also have to make sure they're good quality. These are literally the knees of your car... bad knees and your SOL. Not a fun job to do twice.

-or-

Request that GKN Loebro make a batch of stock ones and bolt them on with new gaskets and schnorr washers and have a nice day.

That's why... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ChrisFoley]

Why are you looking for a alternative if we already have a solution (Chris / Tangerine) within a good price in place?

I used his parts and they look and fit good.

D

What I'm offering isn't a true solution.
Its a somewhat acceptable alternative to a lack of supply of the correct part.

As Eric pointed out there are compromises.
The work we have to do adds significantly to the final price.
The brand my supplier provides doesn't match the precision standards of GKN-Lobro.
But starting with Lobro Type 1 CVS and adding the same modificatons would likely increase the price by at least 25%.

One customer has them in his 3 liter track car, so they seem to work ok,
but they haven't been in service long enough to test their longevity.

[914Sixer]

OK, I have contacted GNK about making CV joints and or complete axles. Lets see what they say. I will keep you posted.

[McMark]

Real world story as to why paying a "little" more for a better part pays off. I felt awful about it because Mark missed RRC that year...

I didn't miss RRC, but my car did. You'll be happy to know my car has forgiven you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think the T1 GNK CVs are a perfectly good replacement. I think that leaving the CVs in the standard T1 orientation is a better compromise and use RTV to seal the joint (there is a time and a place for RTV). Less machining, less disassembly/reassembly, proper fit between boot and CV. The only thing you're really losing is the stock gasket, which I've seen 'smoosh' out on cars leaving the bolts loose. If I can't use a stock gasket, I'm fine with that.

[draganc]

Eric and Chris, you are both correct. My point is/was that even it's not perfect but we have a "solution" in place. Of course I wouldn't minde a oem type replacement at all!

I'm just wondering if the effort could/should be focused on a item that has no replacement in place.

Of course this doesn't mean that the individuals can't spend their time on whatever is important to them.

d

[914Sixer]

*"MARK HEARD" <a914nut@email.com>*

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*Subject:* FW: Message from GKN Driveline website - Other - English
*From:* Robert GenwayHaden
*To:* a914nut@email.com
*Date:* 01/14/13 07:01 AM


Mark,



Great e-mail address. Did you see the ‘Wheeler Dealers’ program on the
914 ? One of their best episodes.



Anyway, can you send me the GKN part numbers of the joints and the
shafts please ? These are 30 year old parts so some of our corporate
knowledge leaks as people retire but we can always retrieve the drawings
from a part number.



GKN typically doesn’t operate in the aftermarket, but we do have a
motorsports division that may be able to organize and distribute a batch
of these parts. Do you think that ‘914World.com’ might be able to
organize a group purchase ? Alternatively a company like UTS may be
willing to hold and distribute a batch of shafts. Send me the numbers
please and let’s see what is possible.



Regards,



Rob.



The following message was submitted on the GKN Driveline website:

From: Mark Heard
Organisation:
Address: 134 Stonegate South

City: Boerne, TX 78006
Country: USA
Telephone number: 210-262-4226
Fax number:
Email:
How did you hear about us: Word of mouth
Further info:

Comments:
The fans of the Porsche 914 would like to know there is any possibility
of making new CV joints and or complete axles for the 1970-1976 914. The
914World.com currently has over 6,000 members. We are in need of these
restoration parts

This is the reply I got back from GKN. Lots of possibilities here.

[Eric_Shea]

I think you should hook them up with SSF and IMC Parts. I can let my reps know... Otherwise, I can contact Pelican and Stoddard and see what they'd be willing to take as well.

[Cap'n Krusty]

I'd be wary of listening to anyone who thought the Wheeler Dealers 914 episode was " One of their best episodes". I noted a number of serious errors in what Edd did and how/why he did it. Like the BS external cooler, which is the LAST thing the car needs in the UK.

The Cap'n

[rick 918-S]

I'd be wary of listening to anyone who thought the Wheeler Dealers 914 episode was " One of their best episodes". I noted a number of serious errors in what Edd did and how/why he did it. Like the BS external cooler, which is the LAST thing the car needs in the UK.

The Cap'n

Your a funny guy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) It's TV silly! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Nice to see some movement on this. The last batch of CV's I used I assembled from the best pieces I could salvage from the used parts bin. There on the Alien. Not the best idea I know but hey, it's what I had. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I'm out of used joints.

[Tom_T]

IIRC full axles with the 2 CVs were still available from Porsche.

[jsayre914]

I am interested, I hope to one day Tear a CV in half with the RAW POWER of my Porsche.

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