Rear Sway Bar: Yes or No, AX gurus... come forth |
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Rear Sway Bar: Yes or No, AX gurus... come forth |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:30 PM
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#1
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
hey guys... my car tracks very nice. have 19mm torsion bars up front, 23mm tarett swaybar up front, 140 lbs springs, and konis up front/bilsteins in rear.
what does adding a STOCK rear swaybar do for me? to compensate for the rear bar, would i dial in MORE front bar? cant seem to get it right in my head (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 09:33 PM
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#2
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Adding a rear bar is the equivalent of adding more rear spring rate. I'm REALLY surprised that your combo works without understeer. The Tarret bar with stock torsion bars and 140's is what appears to work best for sticky tire'd 914's (with those parts) I run rear bars because I *may* need more rear spring rate and I dont want to have to change the rear springs for every event. It is VERY easy to pop a link off the rear bar if need be.
I'm betting you have the Tarret set on full soft. B |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:38 PM
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#3
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 27 2004, 08:33 PM) I'm betting you have the Tarret set on full soft. B right again..... and koni reds set at half to full stiff so if i add a rear bar, put front bar on full stiff? |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 09:42 PM
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#4
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Right now you have NO adjustment. Adding a rear bar will allow you to dial in more front bar if need be.
B |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:43 PM
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#5
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 27 2004, 08:42 PM) Right now you have NO adjustment. Adding a rear bar will allow you to dial in more front bar if need be. B hmmmm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) rear bar makes it oversteer right? |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 09:45 PM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
General easy rule of thumb:
If the front is loose.. tighten the rear (tighten rear bar or add more spring rate) If the rear is loose tighten the front (add more front bar or increase torsion bar size. I could run 19mm bars on all my cars if I wanted to run 26mm torsion bars. I prefer not to "spring" the car so heavy and let larger sway bars handle the roll control. The adjustable bars allow me to dial the car in for each event without changing torsion bars or rear springs rates. B |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:47 PM
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#7
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
thanks for the insight B,
looks like i'll install a stock rear bar..and play with the front bar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 09:47 PM
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#8
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Dont get messed up. Stick with: loose in front tighten rear... loose in rear tighten front.
There is a cross over point... but it is not important. It will just screw yor head up thinking about it. B |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:48 PM
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#9
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 27 2004, 08:47 PM) Dont get messed up. Stick with: loose in front tighten rear... loose in rear tighten front. There is a cross over point... but it is not important. It will just screw yor head up thinking about it. B last question..i PROMISE (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) adding a rear bar makes the rear looser right? thats all my cognative ability (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 09:50 PM
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#10
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I want you to think the other way: It will tighten the front. Effectively it *will* loosen the rear but ONLY because the front now has more grip.
B |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:51 PM
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#11
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 27 2004, 08:50 PM) I want you to think the other way: It will tighten the front. Effectively it *will* loosen the rear but ONLY because the front now has more grip. B ok.. makes sense. im just a grasshoppa in the world of performance driving and suspension tuning. thanks brad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 09:54 PM
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#12
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Now you understand how I can 31mm sway bars in cars with stock torsion bars. The cars actually still ride nice going down the road.
B |
Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 09:56 PM
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#13
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
got it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
cool..more food for thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 10:02 PM
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#14
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
You want to adjust. 99% of the "old guy's" out there just drive and compensate with the gas pedal. This works great for them, but it may have taken them 15-20 years to get to that point. Once a driver understands what his/her car is doing they will become better drivers faster. Understanding what needs to be adjusted is even better.
B |
J P Stein |
Nov 27 2004, 10:32 PM
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#15
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I agree with everything Brad says & will continue to do so till the evening of 22 March.......after that, we'll see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Trekkor |
Nov 27 2004, 10:37 PM
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#16
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 27 2004, 07:54 PM) 31mm sway bars Weeeee! Love 31mm |
skline |
Nov 27 2004, 10:48 PM
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#17
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
I have driven 914's with and without sway bars, I have watched cars with only front bars and heavy springs, I personally, will never own a 914 without front and rear bars. I installed them on the Chalon as it came with nothing, I went with a 23mm front adjustable and a stock rear bar. I am not sure how it is going to handle yet but give me another week or so and I will let you know. I know my little S-10 truck handles awesome and it has front and rear bars and Bilsteins all around.
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Aaron Cox |
Nov 27 2004, 10:51 PM
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#18
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
scott..our 'chat' prompted this thread. i need a new trunk floor pan anyway.. ill just get ones with the mounts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
thanks scott/brad |
Joseph Mills |
Nov 27 2004, 11:40 PM
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#19
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Nov 27 2004, 09:30 PM) hey guys... my car tracks very nice. have 19mm torsion bars up front, 23mm tarett swaybar up front, 140 lbs springs, and konis up front/bilsteins in rear. With that large a bar in the front and 140# springs in the rear, I'm surprised the handling is "balanced". I'm not a guru, but when my car had a similar combination, it suffered from extreme understeer (especially for AX). I progressed to 180#, 200#, and finally 250# to achieve the rotation I was looking for. I am running 8X15 wheels in the rear with 225/50s, so that may explain why I had to go to 250# springs to get the rear loose. When these tires wear out, I'll be looking to swap out for some 7X15s if anyone's interested. Oops... got off topic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I suggest you install that rear swaybar for sure. If after awhile, you sense it's an "improvement", you might consider going to a stiffer rear spring. While the rear bar will add some increase in spring rate, it may add wheel spin in turns that you won't find satisfactory. |
Brad Roberts |
Nov 27 2004, 11:45 PM
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#20
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
IF.. you have a good front bar... the car will stay FLAT in the corners and not lift the inside rear wheel causing wheel spin.
B |
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