Auto x guys: Really need help, Tell me about a "technique' Options

[aircooledboy]

We have a case in my office were there is some question as to why a driver did something in an accident, and I really need to understand it.

The reconstruction has been completed and it appears that one of the cars in this "aggressive driving" scenario lost control during a maneuver wherein he applied the emergency brake on rear wheel drive car (late model Saleen Mustang) at about 80 mph while passing in tight traffic.

Can anybody tell me if here is some legit (or illegit for that matter) driving technique which would explain that?

Thanks

[carr914]

Yes, there is. If you are Jim Rockford and you're on a case, this is perfectly acceptable. Of Course, Jim Rockford would never had hit anything and would have been driving a Firebird! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mblizzard]

Wow that is an odd thing to do. Maybe some of the more expert drivers might be able to provide a real world skill reason for this. Other than rally driving on unsaved roads and attempting hand brake assisted turns I don't know of a reason to do this at 80 mph.

But if aggressive driving was involved I would have to think that this is more likely a move of someone just being an ass. That is assuming that the car did not experience a true brake failure that left the emergency brake as the only option.

I have seen people do this when they feel others are following too closely and they either want to cause an accident by eliminating the warning of the brake light to the other driver thus essentially eliminating reaction time. Or really scare them. And I have seen this used as a side by side intimidation method. Rear wheels lock. Lots of smoke. Very scary for surrounding drivers but controllable at reasonable speeds.

[drgchapman]

There is a specific name for this maneuver (Scandinavian, Finn or some such thing, I can't remember) I see no legit reason for that maneuver in that situation. It will lead to fish tailing of the car and in tight traffic likely result in kissing off another car.

The legit reason for this maneuver is setting up a tight hairpin turn. You see the WRC guys doing it at speed, but only into tight hairpins and usually gravel type surface. It sets the rear out and lines the car up for earlier acceleration out of the turn.

[SirAndy]

There is one scenario where i would do exactly the same thing.

You are either trying to prevent to hit someone else dead on or you're trying to prevent someone else from hitting you dead on.

By applying the handbrake at speed, you can quickly force the car sideways.
In theory, this could allow you to turn a otherwise focused frontal impact into a broader side impact which usually results in less injuries.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[ThePaintedMan]

There is a specific name for this maneuver (Scandinavian, Finn or some such thing, I can't remember) I see no legit reason for that maneuver in that situation. It will lead to fish tailing of the car and in tight traffic likely result in kissing off another car.

The legit reason for this maneuver is setting up a tight hairpin turn. You see the WRC guys doing it at speed, but only into tight hairpins and usually gravel type surface. It sets the rear out and lines the car up for earlier acceleration out of the turn.

The Scandinavian Flick isn't really the action of applying the hand brake. It's the action of setting the car up facing away from the apex of the turn then flicking it aggressively toward the apex, sometimes using a combo of throttle or brake to do as you say - get the ass end to kick out and setup for a better launch out of the turn.

Hitting the handbrake on the highway is a no-no in anything other than an emergency scenario. Don't know why someone would do such a thing.

[mskala]

Passenger who is clueless but scared of the kind of shit the driver is
doing pulls the e-brake?

[ConeDodger]

Instant oversteer. Flick the wheel right or left and pull up on the E-brake. Not a usual technique on public roads. Used commonly in ice racing and I suspect off-road rally.

I used it at one autocross event. A lone cone to go 360 degrees around. Finally got it just right on the last go around. Pull up the E-brake - rotate around the cone and precisely when you are pointed right, release and pound the accelerator.

On a public street? That's just an idiot move. In older cars at least, it would lock the rears and not turn on the brake lights. Causing the car to the rear to have to panic stop. Newer cars might turn the brake lights on if you can even put the E-brake on when moving. My wife's Audi, you cannot. It's electronic.

[aircooledboy]

You guys rock as always.

Thanks for all the ideas. Hadn't considered possibility that passenger did it, which is not out of the question.

Interestingly, BTW, brake lights do not light up here, since we have black box data, and brake circuit inputs are negative. We know that the back brakes were locked up though by the skid marks.

Still glad to hear anyone else's idea.

Thanks again.

[6freak]

Yes, there is. If you are Jim Rockford and you're on a case, this is perfectly acceptable. Of Course, Jim Rockford would never had hit anything and would have been driving a Firebird! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

in reverse

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[worn]

We have a case in my office were there is some question as to why a driver did something in an accident, and I really need to understand it.

The reconstruction has been completed and it appears that one of the cars in this "aggressive driving" scenario lost control during a maneuver wherein he applied the emergency brake on rear wheel drive car (late model Saleen Mustang) at about 80 mph while passing in tight traffic.

Can anybody tell me if here is some legit (or illegit for that matter) driving technique which would explain that?

Thanks

This didn't happen around last December did it?

[messix]

its a drifting move too!

nail the ebrake to get the ass end sliding then release ebrake and power the slide with the throttle.

and drifters do this at high speeds too! which is not a normal rally move at high speed

[Andyrew]

Most likely they are a drifter or wannabe drifter.. I've been in the car with one when they go through public roads and drift at high speeds. (Didnt know it was going to happen...). They dont care about rules at that point and just go sideways as much as possible and go as fast as possible.

This might explain a bit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpYOKudq2D0

[ripper911]

I don't trust mustang drivers. There's something about them, it's like they all think they're driving a Ferrari.

[R8CERX]

If the car is equipped with ABS, he can bipass at least the ABS to the wheel that is locked by the hand brake.

If for some reason the driver thought of using the lock wheel to help him spin as some one has suggested above, to avoid a front end collision, it could make sense, as it will make you spin

then again, for the driver to think of all of the above during a crash, it is hard, unless you have practiced it and it is a muscle reaction, as otherwise, he had to had time to think about it.. thus could have avoided accident?

my humble opinion.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[brant]

Jim Rockford drive a 914 in a couple of episodes

[balljoint]

I don't trust mustang drivers. There's something about them, it's like they all think they're driving a Ferrari.

The only thing worse is Mustang drivers who up and buy themselves a 914, and then a Miata.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

[aircooledboy]

I don't know much about drifting, but I don't think this is a scenario where you could "drift."
Car #1 trying to get by car #2 who is playing speed games on a crowded 2 lane highway(#2 is speeding up/slowing down to prevent anybody from getting by).

I don't think drifting would fit into that scenario.

Regarding when this happened, it's probably best if I don't get too fact specific.

[worn]

I don't know much about drifting, but I don't think this is a scenario where you could "drift."
Car #1 trying to get by car #2 who is playing speed games on a crowded 2 lane highway(#2 is speeding up/slowing down to prevent anybody from getting by).

I don't think drifting would fit into that scenario.

Regarding when this happened, it's probably best if I don't get too fact specific.

Yeah, I realized that after the post, sorry. I am nearby so it sounded familiar. But you are quite right. I might think an uninformed passenger might have wanted to put an end to all the fun and games they were being put through.

[TargaToy]

As a younger and dumber driver, i have on occasion used only the p-brake to scrub off speed without showing brake lights after discovering i had just passed a trooper going a bit fast. But the thumb button was always depressed at the time and i didnt lock up the rears.

Is it possible this was a downshift error that locked the rears and the p-brake wasnt the actual culprit?