OT: 2003 Boxster S engine replacement Options

[jesiv]

Don't flame me for the Boxster post please! I have a 1975 914 just looking for advice. I am thinking there are more experienced Boxster owners here than most sites.

I am having my 2003 Boxster S towed to the dealership tomorrow. I replaced the IMS with the LN bearing last year as an FYI. On the way home from work last night my idle was rough. The highway was normal and spirited! With no problems. However when I started the car after leaving the grocery store. Smoke was apparent thru the rear window. I couldn't tell if it was white or any other color as it was dark. The car ran fine but had a rough idle in the driveway prior to shutoff. I didn't feel good about how things were going! The next morning when I started the car no smoke but rough idle! I didnt see any reason to push the situation so I stopped the engine. I have no check engine light!!

I don't think the engine is blown but it has me thinking... I could hear from the dealer I need a new engine!

So what I would like is your suggestions on is... other than a 25k porsche crate motor... What would you do? The car is perfect otherwise!

I should add this is a daily driver. No track. Like I said it is perfect otherwise

Thanks for the help!!

Regards

James

[McMark]

Used motor or new car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Boxsters have dropped so far that they're kinda disposable now. Especially considering a 25k engine + installation.

Or stuff a 3.6 engine in there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[ConeDodger]

I seem to recall something called an air/oil separator?

Oh, and I've heard the crate motors are half that much...

[DRPHIL914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Could be something simple like the Oil/air separator. I had the same issue nor long after I bought my car. Had to pull the MAP sensor and clean it too, replaced the o/a and put in new O2 sensors and no issues since. O/A will fail and be the cause of the white smoke at start up.

Before you spent $500-$1000 at the dealer think about what you can do yourself.
Look on pelican site for the tech articles that will show you how to do this. And post on the 986forum.com there are quite a few there that call assist on this as well. Others may chime in here too .
Welcome and post an few pics of the 914 and boxster too
Good luck.

[rick 918-S]

Ya, I recall something about that air, oil thing too. Or an external leak that would not throw a code like water pump. Coolant on the exhaust when the engine was hot. Next morning not so much.

[ThePaintedMan]

Don't have a whole lot of experience with Boxsters yet, but I'm learning.

First things first, don't freak out. If it was an IMS bearing you'd likely have a lot more problems currently. And since you've already replaced it with the LN bearing, you should be good to go - Jake and those guys do not fool around.

I'd drain the oil into a clean drain pan. Collect it then filter it in the sunlight. You can use a disposable paint filter available at any paint store. Pay attention to signs of metal in the oil - large streaks of glittery material are a dead giveaway. It's time for an oilchange anyway, right?

Then look into the Pelican Parts oil/air separator diagnosis and replacement page:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/B...l_Separator.htm

If you have a vacuum gauge you can test it before having to buy a new one. But your symptoms sound eerily like a failed separator.

I would attempt these two things first before taking it to the dealership. Hate (most) of those guys...

[Mike Bellis]

I was thinking donor car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Any decent P-car shop can fix this, IMO. Likely the oil/air separator, as others have suggested. Be sure they replace all the bits and pieces that go with the job, like hoses and such.

The Cap'n

[speed metal army]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P67OSN2DqAE
The fix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Woody]

Yeah its the oil seperator. Its basically the PCV system for the engine. There is a diaphragm inside that has torn and is allowing oil vapors directly into the intake which is what's causing your smoke. Worst case is it can kill the mass airflow meter and foul the spark plugs. Generally you can replace the oil separator and your good but I will usually advise a intake system clean as well. It will take a few miles of hard driving to clear out the smoke after replacement.

[DRPHIL914]

Yeah its the oil seperator. Its basically the PCV system for the engine. There is a diaphragm inside that has torn and is allowing oil vapors directly into the intake which is what's causing your smoke. Worst case is it can kill the mass airflow meter and foul the spark plugs. Generally you can replace the oil separator and your good but I will usually advise a intake system clean as well. It will take a few miles of hard driving to clear out the smoke after replacement.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) this is what i was saying earlier. and you can do this yourself. it is kind of hard to reach, so i would suggest getting a friend to help, if you have someone on top and someone on the bottom at the same time because its hard to reach the clamps etc to remove it. i struggled with this by myself for a couple hours. got my son out there to help and i had it out in 15 minutes.

since you idle is messed up, i agree with woody here, just pull the MAP sensor which is easy and clean it, if you really want to do a good clean and tune , replace the plugs since you probably never have- -

Again, pelican has a nice step by step write up on how to acess the engine. once you have done this its not too bad.

i never thought i would do much of this stuff but after 5 years of 914 ownership i gained a lot of knowledge from the guys here and pelican. so really the Boxster is not that hard too work on either.

So far i have replace the ignition(a common fail on these) and did the recall upgrade, also O2 sensors, new SS sport cat headers and exhaust, the O/A sep, and am thinking about doing aftermarket intake and having the ECU flash upgrade.
(more info about this on the 986 site).

Either way i agree with paintedman, this is not likely an issue with your bearing but check you oil anyway as a precaution.

**FYI for other Boxster owners- there is a company in Illinois that you can send oil sample to and for $25 you can have them run a full series of diagnostics on the oil and they can tell if you having any early signs of engine breakdown etc. much more accurate than just looking with the naked eye.

- again, good luck. but you can do this yourself i am sure!!!

[DRPHIL914]

FYI**** the lab i mentioned in the previous post for testing oil and other fluids is called Blackstone Labs.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests.php

[jesiv]

Well the verdict is in looks like at a minimum a blown head gasket as coolant is dripping from exhaust. Porsche crate motor installed with two year unlimited mile warranty 23k out the door. Not sure I want to dig into a 97k mile motor with a blown head gasket without a plan

What would you do if you were me...

[rick 918-S]

Get a second opinion. I haven't heard of a head gasket issue. Anyone? Water pump, or hose but not the head gasket. Did they clean it off and show you the leak? I mean dry and clean?

[timothy_nd28]

You could do a 2nd opinion yourself. Obtain a combustion leak detector (I think Walmart sells these now) and test the fluid in your radiator. If you do have a blown head gasket, the leak detector fluid will change color.
Combustion Leak detector

If the test proves the dealer correct, I would seriously consider that LS conversion Renegade sells. The prototype looks like a fun car.

[ThePaintedMan]

Get a second opinion. I haven't heard of a head gasket issue. Anyone? Water pump, or hose but not the head gasket. Did they clean it off and show you the leak? I mean dry and clean?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) The dealership is very often not the best place to have a problem diagnosed. Did YOU see water coming out of the exhaust after running it for awhile? As in, not the typical condensation that gets blown out after the first few minutes of running after sitting overnight.

Tim's suggestion is good as well. Check the oil before you do anything else. Is it at all milky in any way? Has the level *risen* since you last checked it? Is your reservoir losing coolant? There are several other tests you can do, including checking to see if the coolant reservoir is being pressurized by the prospective head leak, and checking compression on each of the cylinders.

If the car was running okay, still has not thrown a code, and did not overheat, it would be a real stretch to imagine the cylinder head gasket just up and blew.

In the case that the gasket is indeed blow, the dealership will doubtfully replace it. They're "parts changers" as TC always says. BUT, a blown head gasket in no way means you need to fork out money for another motor. What you do need is someone who can drop the engine, replace the gasket and diagnose why the failure happened in the first place.

[jesiv]

I hear what you are saying regarding the head gasket. I do trust the dealer. Gunter at Fremont Porsche is a stand up guy. What he was saying is at best it is a head gasket and it could be a whole lot worse. The obvious course is to pull the engine and see. I don't have the facilities or time to do this. While I would have no issues doing my 914 the Boxster is another thing entirely. At least with me skill set and tools.

I want to resist the temptation to drop thousands of dollars on a 97k motor to find out it is more than a gasket. At that point what do I do and where do I stop. If it was a track or weekend car maybe but not a good recipe for my daily driver.

So it seems my options are:

1 try to repair existing engine price ???
2 crate motor price 23k out the door
3 sell as is price ???
4 part it out
5 buy new car & keep as project

Any other ideas? Time for a few shots of something

Thanks for the ideas

Regards

James

[jimkelly]

there is an LS1 motor in the classifieds right now.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=220685

renegade kit seems to be about $4500 but no idea how much the emissions stuff is to pass CA emissions.

jim

[Jake Raby]

The M96 engines DO NOT blow head gaskets. Period! The MLS gaskets are stronger than the cylinder heads and crankcases.

The symptoms that you have can be caused from a lot of things. We save engines weekly that were deemed junk by others.

You need someone with a clue about M96 engines to really diagnose this.. You won't find that at the dealer level, we pluck cars out of dealer lots all over the country and save them weekly after being deemed junk.


For a taste of the things that we save just see the photos on the facebook page for my Flat 6 Innovations division www.facebook.com/fixabrokensix

Some of those pics will blow your mind.

Have you recently replaced the water pump??

You have a cracked head. These engines DO NOT need to overheat to crack heads, localized hot spots are all thats required. Its not junk, we've resurrected about 40 of those engines this year alone. The 03 engines crack on the backside and the EGR ports weep coolant into the exhaust. Thats what the 03 86S engine does. Nothing new here. No biggie.

I am finishing the engine build photos for my M96 engine book this week :-)

Here's what you can expect..
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net-1095-1386210873.1.jpg)

Or this
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net-1095-1386210874.2.jpg)

And trust me.. You have a best case scenario for an M96 engine issue. This is what we usually get for a failure call.
Hell, we can even resurrect most of these after throwing away over 100 pounds of OEM parts in every build, blown up or not!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net-1095-1386210875.3.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net-1095-1386210876.4.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net-1095-1386210876.5.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net-1095-1386210877.6.jpg)

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Dec 4 2013, 08:34 PM

[timothy_nd28]

Even stand up guys can fall behind on rent