More FI fun, LM2 is smarter than me..... |
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More FI fun, LM2 is smarter than me..... |
OU8AVW |
Aug 2 2015, 04:52 PM
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#1
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Yacht Rigger Group: Members Posts: 1,803 Joined: 1-October 08 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 9,601 Region Association: Southwest Region |
So I'm still finding f-ups cause by the well respected Porsche shop here in Annapolis.
1- I pulled the valve covers off the check the adjustment. They had not adjusted the valves like I asked. They were WAY off. Jake say zero lash for my cam. They were very loose. Looking at my gaskets, they were not even checked.... 2- I installed a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment. Fired up the car and the gauge read 40psi!!!!!! 40 f--kin' PSI So I adjusted the valves to .001" just so I could check them with a feeler. What do you know, the car ran better and it cured the high RMP lag I was feeling above 4500 rpm. Then I dropped the fuel pressure to 30psi. Now it idled much better and had ALLOT more pick up. Smooth power delivery up to mid throttle. At full-ish throttle it seemed to pop or misfire. I expect that it is running lean. Makes sense when you consider the asshat tuned the MPS with massive vacuum leaks and 40psi of fuel pressure so....... I go to hook up my brand new LM2 to do the calibration and the stupid thing won't calibrate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I spent more time trying to figure this issue out then I did messing with the actual car. I guess I need to call Innovate tomorrow and see what they say..... |
Mike Bellis |
Aug 2 2015, 05:10 PM
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#2
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None |
So I'm still finding f-ups cause by the well respected Porsche shop here in Annapolis. 1- I pulled the valve covers off the check the adjustment. They had not adjusted the valves like I asked. They were WAY off. Jake say zero lash for my cam. They were very loose. Looking at my gaskets, they were not even checked.... 2- I installed a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment. Fired up the car and the gauge read 40psi!!!!!! 40 f--kin' PSI So I adjusted the valves to .001" just so I could check them with a feeler. What do you know, the car ran better and it cured the high RMP lag I was feeling above 4500 rpm. Then I dropped the fuel pressure to 30psi. Now it idled much better and had ALLOT more pick up. Smooth power delivery up to mid throttle. At full-ish throttle it seemed to pop or misfire. I expect that it is running lean. Makes sense when you consider the asshat tuned the MPS with massive vacuum leaks and 40psi of fuel pressure so....... I go to hook up my brand new LM2 to do the calibration and the stupid thing won't calibrate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I spent more time trying to figure this issue out then I did messing with the actual car. I guess I need to call Innovate tomorrow and see what they say..... Curious... If you can do the work, and do it better than the shop... Why take it there in the first place? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
TheCabinetmaker |
Aug 2 2015, 05:29 PM
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#3
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,304 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Did you calibrate the lm2 in free air?
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OU8AVW |
Aug 3 2015, 07:55 AM
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#4
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Yacht Rigger Group: Members Posts: 1,803 Joined: 1-October 08 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 9,601 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Free air calibration reads 0.00. That's the problem. It won't work at all. I tried re-flashing it, running the car, everything i could find online to try.
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OU8AVW |
Aug 3 2015, 07:59 AM
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#5
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Yacht Rigger Group: Members Posts: 1,803 Joined: 1-October 08 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 9,601 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Why take it to a mechanic? Well, I assumed they would be able to get it perfect. I knew at some point I would have to learn all this but I wanted to be enjoying my car while I learned about D-Jet. Now I'm taking a crash coarse. My intention is to get it running 100% and go back for a partial refund. At least give the owner an earful.
I've built a few VW bugs but never an engine. This is my first Porsche, my first engine build and my first intro into fuel injection. One would think a seasoned mechanic would have something on a guy who's surfing the web for how-to info (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
McMark |
Aug 3 2015, 09:17 AM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Unfortunately, yours is the typical experience with shops. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
I've also had trouble with Innovate stuff. If you can convince them to give you a refund, I would switch to AEM or PLX. Innovate has the most word of mouth, but their quality control sucks. |
DBCooper |
Aug 3 2015, 09:50 AM
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#7
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14's in the 13's with ATTITUDE Group: Members Posts: 3,079 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Dazed and Confused Member No.: 2,618 Region Association: Northern California |
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jd74914 |
Aug 3 2015, 10:05 AM
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#8
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,782 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
I've also had trouble with Innovate stuff. If you can convince them to give you a refund, I would switch to AEM or PLX. Innovate has the most word of mouth, but their quality control sucks. Second that. Third McMark's recommendation. The stuff from 14point7 also works really well. I started using it on our racecar's since it's much less expensive than competing products and we found it to be very reliable (no failure after 3+ years of abuse). |
stugray |
Aug 3 2015, 10:45 AM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,825 Joined: 17-September 09 From: Longmont, CO Member No.: 10,819 Region Association: None |
I have been using a LM1 for a couple of years now with no problem.
Just a datapoint |
yeahmag |
Aug 3 2015, 12:09 PM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,422 Joined: 18-April 05 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 3,946 Region Association: Southern California |
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OU8AVW |
Aug 3 2015, 06:30 PM
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#11
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Yacht Rigger Group: Members Posts: 1,803 Joined: 1-October 08 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 9,601 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Well, machines are only as dumb as the user and the LM2 issue was mine. I figured it out and I'm getting numbers now. It's running a little rich at idle and part load and very lean at full throttle. So in goes the center screw and out comes the keyed alen head right?
Also, it wants to die when the trhottle is released. I have a decel valve installed. Is it loosen the decel to allow more air at deceleration or is it tighten it? |
Old Yella |
Aug 3 2015, 06:52 PM
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#12
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Old Yella Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 2-July 13 From: Canberra Australia Member No.: 16,086 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Well, machines are only as dumb as the user and the LM2 issue was mine. I figured it out and I'm getting numbers now. It's running a little rich at idle and part load and very lean at full throttle. So in goes the center screw and out comes the keyed alen head right? Also, it wants to die when the trhottle is released. I have a decel valve installed. Is it loosen the decel to allow more air at deceleration or is it tighten it? loose the decal valve altogether you don't need it, just another thing to dick around with. |
BeatNavy |
Aug 3 2015, 07:30 PM
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#13
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Certified Professional Scapegoat Group: Members Posts: 2,924 Joined: 26-February 14 From: Easton, MD Member No.: 17,042 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Mike, I went through similar symptoms a few weeks ago. Found on hard decel the engine wanted to stall out. I doubt the decel valve is related to your issues. More likely it's the lean running condition. Running lean seems to cause a host of potential issues.
Idle mixture is controlled by the ECU knob. You can adjust that separately from MPS adjustments. I would fully warm up the car then take several runs on the same section of road (maybe a hill), and loosen only the inner screw on the MPS a little at a time (maybe 1/8th of a turn.) Record the results and do it again. Keep track of what you did each time as well as cumulatively (I printed out a table to record what I adjusted and took my son along to help me record results). FWIW, I referenced the following two threads quite a bit, including the latter which I believe you originally had on one of your previous troubleshooting threads. It helped me, particularly with how to handle the outer screw: Anders MPS Greenwood MPS Adjustment In the end I was surprised how much I had to adjust the MPS to get a sufficiently rich mixture after it was bench set "correctly." Racer Chris said as much, and I finally followed his advice (and that in the Greenwood thread above). I'm a newbie at this, but that helped me a lot. Good luck. You'll figure it out (and there will be no reason whatsoever to take it to one of those shops). |
Jake Raby |
Aug 4 2015, 06:36 AM
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#14
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Sounds like the sensor is fouled. With 0.00 it has no voltage output being read by the LM2. The sensor is a VW/ Audi unit and can be bought locally.
Normal shops don't understand these cars, or engines. To them these cars are nostalgic pieces that are novelty items, and they don't see enough of them to be proficient with them. This is the same reason why I have to be so critical when building engines. The wrong installation shop, or the wrong person trying to further "tune" my engine is a disaster waiting to happen. They can destroy it, and then guess who gets the finger pointed at them? Not the shop. |
OU8AVW |
Aug 4 2015, 08:37 AM
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#15
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Yacht Rigger Group: Members Posts: 1,803 Joined: 1-October 08 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 9,601 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Jake, it was me that was fouled. I'm getting readings now. LM2 seems to work great.
Yeah, shops like to tell you they can help but they usually fail. I would prefer they just say that they have no clue how to work on this car. I'll be fiddling with the MPS some more tonight. I'll be a D-Jet expert soon enough! |
stugray |
Aug 4 2015, 10:01 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,825 Joined: 17-September 09 From: Longmont, CO Member No.: 10,819 Region Association: None |
I would fully warm up the car then take several runs on the same section of road (maybe a hill), and loosen only the inner screw on the MPS a little at a time (maybe 1/8th of a turn.) Record the results and do it again. Keep track of what you did each time as well as cumulatively (I printed out a table to record what I adjusted and took my son along to help me record results). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Since the LM2 can log the data itself, find a hill that you can go up at WOT and log data a few times. The data is really only valid at WOT and under a load. Ideally you could find a hill long enough & steep enough that you could maintain WOT for many seconds without accelerating too quickly (otherwise known as a dyno :-) |
914_teener |
Aug 4 2015, 10:15 PM
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#17
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,205 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
I would fully warm up the car then take several runs on the same section of road (maybe a hill), and loosen only the inner screw on the MPS a little at a time (maybe 1/8th of a turn.) Record the results and do it again. Keep track of what you did each time as well as cumulatively (I printed out a table to record what I adjusted and took my son along to help me record results). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Since the LM2 can log the data itself, find a hill that you can go up at WOT and log data a few times. The data is really only valid at WOT and under a load. Ideally you could find a hill long enough & steep enough that you could maintain WOT for many seconds without accelerating too quickly (otherwise known as a dyno :-) I am curious, please correct me if anybody's experience differs. I have to go down this path myself: The MPS as I understand it has basically two basic settings. Part load and WOT. From the Anders site I understand these to be somewhat linear. Wouldn't you want the data points for these two situations? Also, isn't this the reason you would want a wide band meter instead of narrow? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
JeffBowlsby |
Aug 4 2015, 10:21 PM
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#18
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,533 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None |
It has a third calibration point = idle
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914_teener |
Aug 4 2015, 10:38 PM
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#19
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,205 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
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OU8AVW |
Aug 8 2015, 06:34 PM
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#20
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Yacht Rigger Group: Members Posts: 1,803 Joined: 1-October 08 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 9,601 Region Association: Southwest Region |
So from what I can tell. because the above mentioned pages are written for engineers, is that the small screw adjusts the low load and the 7mm screw does the full load. In equals richer, out equals leaner.
I'm a little rich at low load 12.4:1 and a little lead at WOT 15:1. So.... The inner small screw needs to come out and the 7mm outer screw needs to go in. Am I understanding this correctly? I just ordered the adjustment kit from Tangerine so I should be able to fiddle with it pretty accurately. |
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