1980 model 911 3.0 in 914, Flywheel question and others? Options

[porschetub]

Hi guys ,for those that have an SC 3.0 in these cars I need the following info as I have been offered for a great price a complete motor with 123K kms documented history.
Anyone got over the situation of clearing the engine lid over the injection system,my lid is sans rain tray and setup for a six already,if that means s#it all.
Been on PMS site and thought there was a conversion flywheel for this engine swap?as silly as it sounds can I engineer a 215mm flywheel to nine bolt crank and fit that,torque figures are not hugely different from say a 911T or 911E of that era.
Flame if you like but I don't want to go to the larger clutch/flywheel and the changes required to get the thrust bearing movement corrected,as in push clutch to pull clutch action.
I feel that I would be happy with this motor the owner is known to me and has a good reputation for honesty,his motivation for selling is an upgrade to a 3.2 in his 76 911s and then finding it needs a fully top overhaul,his motivation for selling the 3.0.

[Dave_Darling]

The "conversion flywheel" is a 901-style flywheel with the nine-bolt mounting pattern, that's all. There may be some Special Magic done with the ring gear, but I don't think that's on the 3.0 motor. A 3.2 would need the stuff to trigger the DME, but again not an issue for the 3.0's CIS.

The CIS can be flipped around 180 degrees and will fit with some extra work. New hard fuel distribution lines would need to be bent, but that is quite doable. The engine lid latch may need to be removed, possibly replaced with racing-style tie-downs.

Other people have fit the CIS by notching the rear trunk wall (a la the Chevy conversions) or even by notching and gluing patches into the CIS boot itself!

Oh, and move the engine down as far as practical when you install it, to make sure there's as much room for the FI parts as possible.

--DD

[boxsterfan]

Do the 3.0L but put ITB's on it and run with Megasquirt FI system.

[porschetub]

Do the 3.0L but put ITB's on it and run with Megasquirt FI system.

Have you got experience of this and costs involved?

[rhodyguy]

Thousands. Not just a couple either.

[Jeffs9146]

Here is what I did with my CIS! No cutting.

No need to replace the flywheel. You need the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel ring gear. I bought mine from PMS.

[mepstein]

PMS gets it all from kep - Kennedy engeneering products.

[rgalla9146]

You have machine shop skill.
The clutch/flywheel conversion can be done by just moving the throw-out- arm pivot.
After that is done (as is stock on a 2.2 of 1970-71) the rest is just gathering the right stock parts. All standard OEM Porsche parts.

[porschetub]

Here is what I did with my CIS! No cutting.

No need to replace the flywheel. You need the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel ring gear. I bought mine from PMS.

Thanks DD Mark and Jeff,so transposing the injection gives the clearance required with the deck lid Jeff ?.
I can see how the stock air cleaner would be in the way height wise as it appears the highest point of the motor?
I don't see how I could easily drop the motor lower DD as I have a stock copy mount welded to the firewall I would think however there would be scope for altering the crankcase mount somehow,the limit here would be the seals around the engine sheet metal .
So the 228mm pressure plate that Kennedy sell is the correct push type for my gearbox ?if so this would be better than making a custom 9 bolt 215mm flywheel.
Keep the info coming guys much appreciated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[boxsterfan]

Never tried it myself. http://www.bitzracing.com/products/Partial..._KIT/index.html

[Mark Henry]

I built my own clutch set-up the flywheel is stock, ring is modified VW and the PP is a 228 HD VW bus, disc is a sachs 228 bus as well.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1361729996.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1361730017.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1361730039.jpg)

[Mark Henry]

The only thing I'll say is bad with the KEP or my clutch assembly is it starts to get a bit heavy. Below is an attempt to lighten it up a bit.
Between the ring and the flywheel I think I got close to 5lbs off off it.
I ended up with the same weight as a stock 914/4 assembly.

Of course everything was then balanced.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1392005571.jpg)

[Mark Henry]

Been on PMS site and thought there was a conversion flywheel for this engine swap?as silly as it sounds can I engineer a 215mm flywheel to nine bolt crank and fit that,torque figures are not hugely different from say a 911T or 911E of that era.
Flame if you like but I don't want to go to the larger clutch/flywheel and the changes required to get the thrust bearing movement corrected,as in push clutch to pull clutch action.

The stock SC flywheel is 225mm that will fit a 901 (914) and 915 transmission.
Next size up is the 245mm flywheel and it's too big for the above, so you are into the 930 or G-50 transmissions which are major work and money to put in a 914.

BTW there are 2 flywheels for a 3.0, early is a small pilot hole, later is a big hole with a pilot bearing holder.
The early flywheel can be used on all 3.0, but only the late crank has the 3 mounting holes for the pilot bearing holder.

[JmuRiz]

...The CIS can be flipped around 180 degrees and will fit with some extra work. New hard fuel distribution lines would need to be bent, but that is quite doable. The engine lid latch may need to be removed, possibly replaced with racing-style tie-downs....

NEver heard of that idea, that's kind of cool and may be worth looking into.

I'm forever debating keeping CIS or going to the good carbs I have on my bench. ITBs running EFI would be the best but they are $3-4k...ouch.

How is the drive-ability and throttle response in a 914 with CIS?

[mepstein]

...The CIS can be flipped around 180 degrees and will fit with some extra work. New hard fuel distribution lines would need to be bent, but that is quite doable. The engine lid latch may need to be removed, possibly replaced with racing-style tie-downs....

NEver heard of that idea, that's kind of cool and may be worth looking into.

I'm forever debating keeping CIS or going to the good carbs I have on my bench. ITBs running EFI would be the best but they are $3-4k...ouch.

How is the drive-ability and throttle response in a 914 with CIS?

If you have trouble with your cis, tony danato is the expert for rebuilding the wur, fuel dist and afm. He's in Norristown, pa.

[Mark Henry]

...The CIS can be flipped around 180 degrees and will fit with some extra work. New hard fuel distribution lines would need to be bent, but that is quite doable. The engine lid latch may need to be removed, possibly replaced with racing-style tie-downs....

NEver heard of that idea, that's kind of cool and may be worth looking into.

I'm forever debating keeping CIS or going to the good carbs I have on my bench. ITBs running EFI would be the best but they are $3-4k...ouch.

How is the drive-ability and throttle response in a 914 with CIS?

You can build you own TB's with Triumph 3 cylinder TB's. There's a few treads on this on the Bird and IIRC McMark was playing with them.

You likely can recoup most of the investment by selling the carbs.

[Jeffs9146]

so transposing the injection gives the clearance required with the deck lid Jeff ?

Sort of!

I used a grinder and removed the filter top of the stock air cleaner. Then I turned the AFR and mounted it on an early Volvo 242 injection intake. I made some mounting brackets to hold it at the correct height and welded up the yellow elbow myself. I also removed the AAV and other not needed vacuum valves.

So yes with a bit moving and fabricating you can avoid cutting anything.

[porschetub]

...The CIS can be flipped around 180 degrees and will fit with some extra work. New hard fuel distribution lines would need to be bent, but that is quite doable. The engine lid latch may need to be removed, possibly replaced with racing-style tie-downs....

NEver heard of that idea, that's kind of cool and may be worth looking into.

I'm forever debating keeping CIS or going to the good carbs I have on my bench. ITBs running EFI would be the best but they are $3-4k...ouch.

How is the drive-ability and throttle response in a 914 with CIS?

The CIS system from my research provides a good smooth usable power and good economy,it however won't set the 3.0 on fire powerwise,carbs do wake these motors up @ the expense of fuel economy.

[Mark Henry]

...The CIS can be flipped around 180 degrees and will fit with some extra work. New hard fuel distribution lines would need to be bent, but that is quite doable. The engine lid latch may need to be removed, possibly replaced with racing-style tie-downs....

NEver heard of that idea, that's kind of cool and may be worth looking into.

I'm forever debating keeping CIS or going to the good carbs I have on my bench. ITBs running EFI would be the best but they are $3-4k...ouch.

How is the drive-ability and throttle response in a 914 with CIS?

The CIS system from my research provides a good smooth usable power and good economy,it however won't set the 3.0 on fire powerwise,carbs do wake these motors up @ the expense of fuel economy.

If you are just slapping weber's on the bone stock CIS mill it won't magically gain HP. To gain hp you need to also add better curved dizzy, cams and headers.... chasing HP becomes a slippery slope.

[Series9]

Here's the thing about CIS: It basically has to have a mild engine built under it.

In order for CIS to function correctly, it requires mild cams and lower compression.

Putting ITBs on a stock 3.0 would be a waste of time.

However, if your 3.0 has Mahle cylinders in good condition, you could grab some 10.5:1 JEs and have the cams recut at DRC and then you would be on to something. But, CIS would no longer work.