Subaru Conversion.. Is it Reversible?, Want to keep body stock. Options

[Brian Mifsud]

Has anyone successfully swapped in a Subaru and NOT had to slice up the body for the cooling lines, plumbing, and heat exchangers?

Specifically, in the nose of the car, can you get adequate cooling by installing the radiator and ducting by slicing up/altering JUST the front hood? (inlet in front, outlet at base of windshield, or above fender wells).

I'd like to make the swap wholly reversible so the car keeps it's "Stock" value.

"Plan B" (very undesirable) I'd think would be to cut out the inner fender wells, but keep the steel to reweld later.. and use the front hood (glass replica) to do the air-inlet.

[iwanta914-6]

If you are concerned about "stock value", why do the swap at all?

If the car is nice and original, find an okay roller and put the subie in that instead.

[Brian Mifsud]

If you are concerned about "stock value", why do the swap at all?

If the car is nice and original, find an okay roller and put the subie in that instead.

I don't want multiple cars, I want to keep my current car,... and if it's been done successfully, then I want to take advantage of that information.

[Mueller]

If you are concerned about "stock value", why do the swap at all?

If the car is nice and original, find an okay roller and put the subie in that instead.

Not everyone has the $ or space for 2 cars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The mods to the front bumper and panel could be reversed by swapping back to stock or doing a nice oil cooler setup, while not stock if done well it might not distract to the value of the car.

I think the problems with hood vents is the amount of heat that ends up back in the cabin if you ever have your top off.

[Andyrew]

A 2056 motor seems like it would work much better for you.. Probably similar investment.


The fact that your asking these questions seem to answer them itself.

Also a GOOD subaru conversion should have the same value as a good 4 cyl.

No one has ever installed a radiator using only the hood as the inlet and outlet. One limiting factor is the gas tank makes up the rear 1/3 of the hood, The work is possible, but the execution will look bad and IMHO not function near as well as it should. The better solution is to move the engine back a few inches and mount the radiator in front of the engine in the engine compartment. This has been done back in 05 and driven across country. I dont remember the gentlemans name but it did it on a shoestring budget and it was one of the better designed system I have seen.

[Brian Mifsud]

A 2056 motor seems like it would work much better for you.. Probably similar investment.


The fact that your asking these questions seem to answer them itself.

Also a GOOD subaru conversion should have the same value as a good 4 cyl.

No one has ever installed a radiator using only the hood as the inlet and outlet. One limiting factor is the gas tank makes up the rear 1/3 of the hood, The work is possible, but the execution will look bad and IMHO not function near as well as it should. The better solution is to move the engine back a few inches and mount the radiator in front of the engine in the engine compartment. This has been done back in 05 and driven across country. I dont remember the gentlemans name but it did it on a shoestring budget and it was one of the better designed system I have seen.

Andy...
I find re-inventing wheels is clunky.. those damn corners...!!! Getting a hood-only system to work with enough experimentation would probably be a long road.

Now that you mention the radiator in engine compartment, it reminds me of that self-contained power plant somebody put together where a geo-Metro 3 cylinder was set up to power 911's which where having their 6's rebuilt to keep the cars mobile. It had it's radiator set adjacent to the engine block in the custom cooling housing sheet-metal.

Venting all the cooling air in and out of the engine compartment is done..duuuuh! with the air-cooled motors.. so there's no good reason why a liquid to air heat exchanger wouldn't have enough airflow in that part of the car.. it's just a question of getting enough area and the right size radiator, or two small radiators in place. Ideally, it would all be a self-contained module of engine and liquid cooling system that drops out of the car in the same footprint as the air cooled power plants.

Mike..
Yes, you are right, a well executed oil-cooler would be seen as an enhancement in many eyes and is certainly not unique in a VW powered car. It might be a blend of the two ideas.. self contain the liquid cooling system, and add an oil cooler if needed..




I really like these ideas... I think I get my cake and eat it too!

[mepstein]

A compromise car won't be good as a conversion or when you want to go back to stock.

[DBCooper]

Yes, it can be done so it's easily reversible, although as a reality check I've never heard of anyone who's done a Subaru conversion going back to stock.

At the risk of angering the concours and cars-as-investments types the comments of people asking if I'd sell my car seem to indicate that a nice Subaru conversion is worth as much or more than a nice stock four. It's a different group of enthusiasts, of course, but I don't think you'd damage the resale value much. That would depend on the car and might change in the future, I don't know, but until then I can say that driving a conversion is a lot more fun than driving an aircooled four. That's my own experience, anyway.

Depending on how it's done very little "cutting" is required, and reversing the modifications would be the equivalent of relatively mild rust repair. I don't see that as serious obstacle, but again, who goes back?

Yes, with an aftermarket GT valence you can inlet without cutting the body and exhaust through the hood. I have the GT valence, though mine vents through the fender wells, and have no issues with cooling. I've never heard anyone with hood vents complain about additional heat in the cabin, though that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In counterpoint I have heard comments that they couldn't tell any difference.

[zipedadoo]

I put a stock 2.2 subaru engine and transmission in a 1972 914.

The radiator is in the engine compartment with a under body scoop. My son has been driving for over a year and the temp stays at 190 and he has yet to drag the scoop off.

All the mods I did could be reversed in a afternoon. Except the fuel tank and the heater core setup. But you don't have to cut the tank and the heater core could stay in place I guess.

My biggest problem would be storing and not losing all the stock parts.

[Brian Mifsud]

The "Subie Conversions" I've seen in the flesh were cars that ALSO had been restored. They were impressive to say the least, but I'm a Mechanical Engineer so I'm tuned in to things like that and have an appreciation for jobs well done. The "irrational" part of me is for some reason is MORE impressed by a fully restored air-cooled car. I guess that just fits into my wholly VW "Roots" as I've read everything that can be found on the history of VW and Porsche.

When it's time to sell my car, that's when I'd rather it be dead stock.


I have a '76 2.0 that's fully intact and original down to functioning SMOG equipment. It's the heaviest 914 with lowest horsepower.. an underdogs amongst underdogs. When I was young and poor (instead of old and poor), I couldn't afford a '73-'74 2.0 that was in as good a condition as this car.

A modified air-cooled motor really means I need to maintain a second engine as I still need to meet California smog every 2 years and wouldn't want to split a crankcase to swap out cams, fuel injection etc. If I'm going to have to drop the engine every two years ( I used to do this with my hot-rod Beetles, keeping a dead stock 1.6 stored in the garage), I might as well drop in a high performer one when not at the inspection station (which no 914 engine will ever be for reasonable money.. I don't make "Raby" money....)

If it can be made to work WELL, a Subie engine with "onboard" cooling system would make life much easier when it came to dropping and swapping. Besides, I design machinery for a living, so this is the sort of challenge I call "Fun" (yes I'm sick that way).

[Brian Mifsud]

I put a stock 2.2 subaru engine and transmission in a 1972 914.

The radiator is in the engine compartment with a under body scoop. My son has been driving for over a year and the temp stays at 190 and he has yet to drag the scoop off.

All the mods I did could be reversed in a afternoon. Except the fuel tank and the heater core setup. But you don't have to cut the tank and the heater core could stay in place I guess.

My biggest problem would be storing and not losing all the stock parts.

Any pics of the build?

[76-914]

I've got to agree w/ DB. I went out of my way to minimize the cutting in case someone wanted to take it back to stock. But since the value is creeping up on 914's I believe that any patch work needed is now a moot point.

[DBCooper]

Hey Brian, Penngrove? I lived there when going to Sonoma State and driving my '59 Westy... a long time ago. A long long time ago.

You know you're talking an awful lot of work for a car that needs smog every two years, but now I understand the reason for wanting an easy switch back and forth. It makes my head hurt thinking about it. I also have a '77 Jaguar with a CARB legal small block Chevy swap. I'd give anything to be able to start over with a '75 or older car so I could do whatever I wanted to with it. A lot fewer artificial limitations and headaches.

[Mike Bellis]

All in or all out...

Make up your mind.

[JmuRiz]

I put a stock 2.2 subaru engine and transmission in a 1972 914.

The radiator is in the engine compartment with a under body scoop. My son has been driving for over a year and the temp stays at 190 and he has yet to drag the scoop off.

All the mods I did could be reversed in a afternoon. Except the fuel tank and the heater core setup. But you don't have to cut the tank and the heater core could stay in place I guess.

My biggest problem would be storing and not losing all the stock parts.

Glad someone did this and have real world experience...in AZ none the less.
I remember the mighty-car-mods guys did a similar conversion fully contained in a Beetle engine bay. So if the could do it, why not in the larger 914 bay.

Pics would be awesome, and I love the idea!

[Brian Mifsud]

Hey Brian, Penngrove? I lived there when going to Sonoma State and driving my '59 Westy... a long time ago. A long long time ago.

You know you're talking an awful lot of work for a car that needs smog every two years, but now I understand the reason for wanting an easy switch back and forth. It makes my head hurt thinking about it. I also have a '77 Jaguar with a CARB legal small block Chevy swap. I'd give anything to be able to start over with a '75 or older car so I could do whatever I wanted to with it. A lot fewer artificial limitations and headaches.

Hope you kept that Westy!



Switching over the '76 as you know means I have to transfer the whole drivetrain "as a system".. so anything that would affect the emissions performance from whatever vehicle I yanked the Subie from would have to find a home in the 914... a nightmarish thought.


I think making a custom cradle for each engine that drops into the floorjack's head would make it really easy to do the drop.

Does anyone have an accurate CAD model of the Subaru 4 cylinder engines?

[Mike Bellis]

on a 76 that means swapping fuel tanks, EVAP, gas caps, etc. You might be able to modify your gas tank to be compliant. Conversion will not be easy. Won't be cheap. In fact, it would be cheaper to buy another 914 and do the swap without all the emissions equipment.

[EdwardBlume]

Its easily switchable..... for sale.