3.2 conversion cars, Public service announcement |
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3.2 conversion cars, Public service announcement |
mepstein |
Nov 12 2016, 06:17 PM
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#1
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,315 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
We have 20 bad ecu's (3.2 engine computers) in the shop. I sent a couple to Steve Wong / 911 Chips for repair. He asked if they were from a 914-6 conversion car since they had a particular defective part. They weren't but most of our cars are 3.2's into early 911's so sort of the same idea. Steve said the reason we were blowing ecu's is because we were mixing the ecu's with a non 3.2 tach. It's very common for a 914 conversion to either modify their 4 tach with an electronic unit or modify an early tach to work with the 3.2. Steve said it may work for a short time, sometimes longer but failure often happens at high rpm. Go to the track, ralley or just some spirited driving and the higher rpm's kill the ecu's. I have to believe him since we have a pile of them to prove it. We had one burn out after 1.5 miles. Even hooking up the shift light wire on the 3.2 tach incorrectly will burn up the ecu's. Not right away but over time. A rebuilt ecu runs $900 and the burnt core is worthless. It's a known problem so it isn't accepted by most, if not all of the ecu rebuilders. You also must use a coil for a 3.2. No substitutes. All of this was unknown to me and the guys at my shop until today but you can be sure they will be more careful about this in the future. 1 more thing and it's something we did already know and practice, always remove the battery terminal from the battery when connecting your ecu.
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JmuRiz |
Nov 12 2016, 06:29 PM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,434 Joined: 30-December 02 From: NoVA Member No.: 50 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
VERY good info, thanks for sharing!
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tygaboy |
Nov 12 2016, 06:38 PM
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#3
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,314 Joined: 6-October 15 From: Petaluma, CA Member No.: 19,241 Region Association: Northern California |
Another example of the awesomeness of 914 World members.
Thanks for sharing. I'm sure you've saved a few folks just south of $1K! We're lucky to have you here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) |
ConeDodger |
Nov 12 2016, 06:40 PM
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#4
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,614 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
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My 914 |
Nov 12 2016, 07:03 PM
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#5
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Casual Member Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 23-April 16 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 19,928 Region Association: North East States |
Wow, this isn't something I would have thought of at all. Do you think that it would apply to other conversion engines as well? Would it be safer and perhaps easier to just use a different tach on any conversion?
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mepstein |
Nov 12 2016, 07:23 PM
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#6
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,315 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Wow, this isn't something I would have thought of at all. Do you think that it would apply to other conversion engines as well? Would it be safer and perhaps easier to just use a different tach on any conversion? Maybe the same for 3.6. That's the only other engine that has a similar ecu. The short version that I heard from Steve was - 3.2 needs a stock 3.2 tach that's wired properly from the start. That's the only way to protect the stock motronic ecu. |
jim_hoyland |
Nov 12 2016, 08:25 PM
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#7
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Get that VIN ? Group: Members Posts: 9,319 Joined: 1-May 03 From: Sunset Beach, CA Member No.: 643 Region Association: Southern California |
Very interesting; any 3.2 914 owners experience this ??
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My 914 |
Nov 12 2016, 08:28 PM
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#8
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Casual Member Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 23-April 16 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 19,928 Region Association: North East States |
I also wonder if it would be a similar issue with a V8 or Subaru engine or if its purely a Porsche engine issue.
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mepstein |
Nov 12 2016, 08:50 PM
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#9
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,315 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I also wonder if it would be a similar issue with a V8 or Subaru engine or if its purely a Porsche engine issue. It's a tach - 3.2 ecu issue. Has nothing to do with a V8 or Suby since they are not using a Bosch motronic ecu to control the EFI. Steve told me this is a common issue in the ecu's that he gets back from 914-6 conversion cars, thus the reason for my post. |
jd74914 |
Nov 12 2016, 08:58 PM
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#10
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,782 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
Interesting. Stock tach (or modified stock, etc.) likely doesn't have enough impedance for the motronic output channel and then the board burns when too much current starts flowing (or just too much current over time).
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ConeDodger |
Nov 12 2016, 09:46 PM
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#11
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,614 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
Very interesting; any 3.2 914 owners experience this ?? No. nor do I intend to! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
Steve |
Nov 13 2016, 02:10 AM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,614 Joined: 14-June 03 From: Orange County, CA Member No.: 822 Region Association: Southern California |
Interesting..... luckily I bought a 3.2 tach by accident when I installed my 2.7 back in 86. So when I upgraded to a 3.2, it worked like a charm. All my gauges are 3.2 gauges.
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Mueller |
Nov 13 2016, 03:19 AM
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#13
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
Can't open it up and see what component let the smoke out?
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shoguneagle |
Nov 13 2016, 05:26 AM
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#14
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shoguneagle Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 3-January 03 From: CA, OR, AZ (CAZOR); New Mexico Member No.: 84 Region Association: Northern California |
I am with Mike on this one: Opening up the component and see what smoked; the internal circuitry may give further indication on what has/caused the problem.
Another question relates to the shift light whether to use connected or not, connections, etc. The only problems other that "thieves stealing parts" relate to a tach going south but the engine and its parts have 145,000 miles on them. Tach, fuel pump, wiring harness, coil, etc. came with the engine. Tach was replaced with 3.2 tach. Do know the costs of DME replacement IF YOU CAN FIND THEM! They are getting extremely hard to find in serviceable condition. Protect them. We do need to find out more since these items are becoming rare and expensive. Steve |
mepstein |
Nov 13 2016, 06:06 AM
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#15
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,315 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I am with Mike on this one: Opening up the component and see what smoked; the internal circuitry may give further indication on what has/caused the problem. Another question relates to the shift light whether to use connected or not, connections, etc. The only problems other that "thieves stealing parts" relate to a tach going south but the engine and its parts have 145,000 miles on them. Tach, fuel pump, wiring harness, coil, etc. came with the engine. Tach was replaced with 3.2 tach. Do know the costs of DME replacement IF YOU CAN FIND THEM! They are getting extremely hard to find in serviceable condition. Protect them. We do need to find out more since these items are becoming rare and expensive. Steve Steve told me which part buns out but not knowing electronics, it means nothing to me. According to him, the part is not available, leaving the unit junked. Most of the 20 non working ecu's at our shop, probably have the same issue. |
0396 |
Nov 13 2016, 07:39 AM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,046 Joined: 13-October 03 From: L.A. Calif Member No.: 1,245 Region Association: Southern California |
First, thanks for the info with these 3.2 conversion.
I have a few questions in my mind: I have friends that have converted from 2.7 to 3.2 then to 3.6. They have been driving these conversions for 10 + years. I know some drive them as intended- on the track and have not experience any concerns. The other question I have is, if one sends an early tach to say, North Hollywood Speedo for a conversion to work with an electronic pick-up ( 3.2) if they aware of these problems and will they simply ignore this and perform conversion? I had one converted - they changed the whole electronic module and gave me back the old one- in case I wanted to convert back... they have been around for 40+ years . Steve is local to me, I guess its time to call and get some education - time to go back to the Brazilian F1 |
bdstone914 |
Nov 13 2016, 09:09 AM
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#17
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,537 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
First, thanks for the info with these 3.2 conversion. I have a few questions in my mind: I have friends that have converted from 2.7 to 3.2 then to 3.6. They have been driving these conversions for 10 + years. I know some drive them as intended- on the track and have not experience any concerns. The other question I have is, if one sends an early tach to say, North Hollywood Speedo for a conversion to work with an electronic pick-up ( 3.2) if they aware of these problems and will they simply ignore this and perform conversion? I had one converted - they changed the whole electronic module and gave me back the old one- in case I wanted to convert back... they have been around for 40+ years . Steve is local to me, I guess its time to call and get some education - time to go back to the Brazilian F1 Steve is a great resource and really know his stuff. NHSS does too bit Hartmut tetired and I am not sure all of his knowledge was passed down. I have spoken with Steve many times and he is always generous with his time and knowledge. Yes call them and ask. |
mepstein |
Nov 13 2016, 10:01 AM
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#18
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,315 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Steve is one of the guru's on this kind of stuff. I'm probably just a poor translator of some of his knowledge. I would contact him if you have any questions or concerns.
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forrestkhaag |
Nov 13 2016, 10:18 AM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 21-April 14 From: Scottsdale, Arizona Member No.: 17,273 Region Association: Southwest Region |
As I am getting closer to installation of the 3.0, does anyone have a particular recommendation on the appropriate gauge set for my Weber festooned SC motor? / Or will the stock SC gauge for oil temp /press etc. be fine? And is the tach special to the SC motor verses my original 71 tach??
Thanks for the sage advice..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Attached thumbnail(s) |
jim_hoyland |
Nov 13 2016, 11:53 AM
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#20
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Get that VIN ? Group: Members Posts: 9,319 Joined: 1-May 03 From: Sunset Beach, CA Member No.: 643 Region Association: Southern California |
I just ran this by Brian Farmer at Einmalig in Huntington Beach; he was unfamiliar with what might blow in the ECU, and commented that they send them out on occasion for rebuilding....?
And, he carries the 3.2 Tachs in inventory if anyone needs another source. |
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